All the school must do is provide the materials and a descent environment for the student (a quite room to read the book and write and take a test)

If the kid doesnt learn, its the kids fault and the parents fault.

The reason poverty stricken kids don't learn is because they have bad values and are generally stupid.

It's your problem, not the governments!

If you really care about those poor kids then go to their community center or make a circle on the sidewalk next to the hookers and crack heads and teach those kids.

Don't cry about the education system, there is noone to blame but people themselves, it is an individual decision.

It is luck of the draw if you are born to a family that somehow instills a desire to live and learn.

I know its been said already, but GPA proves nothing. My personal opinion is that my education is getting in the way of my learning. I love to learn new things, in school or out of it, but GPA is largely determined by tests which test nothing but your ability to memorize arbitary facts.

puffy999
Parents are the reason.

You don't mean "parents", you mean "owners of functional gonads".

They are not parents.

Ryker's Peninsula

If you think these kids are dumb, just wait until you meet their children.

I have.

I currently teach the children of "parents" I had as students themselves. Stupidity has nothing to do with it. Ignorance does. Ignorance is not a function of intelligence. Ignorance is a function of culture.

We have an ignorant culture, and we are suffering for it.

Parents are the main reason why their children are so stupid. Kids are bombarded with so many distractions, such as cell phones, video games, the Internet, etc. It is up to parents to make sure that little Johny/Susy are studying and doing their homework, but most parents fail to set guidelines or enforce discipline, so the little zombies do nothing but leisure activity all day and night.

The US education system does suck in many areas, but the main culprit for dumb kids is dumb parents.

According to the multiple books on education I gotta read all the time, in the last 30 years (or so) increasing funding to primary and secondary schools has not correlated with an increase in student performance. Of course, these are measured at state levels, so there are exceptions in different school boards, or exceptions in certain schools. But money has not been able to solve statewide problems for decades.

So what if we ignore money and go with teaching styles? Standardized tests and "returning to the 3 R's" results in less high level critical thinking and achievement. It might result in more C-grade graduates, thanks to rote memorization and emphasis on the testing process instead of developing skills and understanding. (Skills and understanding are difficult to teach and necessarily require that we treat people like snowflakes with different abilities, unique insights, and interests that are beyond the scope of the curriculum).*

I read crap with obvious political agendas, though. I expect there are stats that soundly contradict these claims.

drinkoffking: Atypical Person Reading Fark: Thank you for that. That made my day. We just had intensive one day training (and this is at the college level) telling us to be very nice and never criticize or fail the little darlings. I'd like to think I am objective (Son, you can't add!) and then offer a way to make it better (Learn to add). Today it was decimal points and place value. Putting lots and lots of zeroes after a number does make it a very big number - but not necessarily the correct big number to the question.

Please tell me you'll be teaching long enough for me to find you and enroll my future kids in your class.

seriously - they're trying to drive us oldsters out (I'm 50). I intend to stick it out and die in the saddle, though. With you as a parent, though, your kids will be all right.

They do want to learn, most of them. And it's true that they've been told anything but "value education." Recent bunch has so been taught only the stuff that's on the NCLB tests that they don't know anything much except percentages and what's a noun. Kind of sad.

If American is now being forced to figure out what to do with itself, financially, in terms of infrastructure, whether we want more and more stuff - or want to help each other out - this next generation lacks one important thing:

skills/knowledge of ANY kind. I've never seen it worse.

My personal thoughts on this general subject are thus:

1. In many bad student cases, the parents have contributed directly to the situation by squashing the wonder, curiosity, and zest for learning that their children would otherwise have with strict authoritarian "because I said so/stop asking stupid questions/don't question authority/mindless obedience" style parenting.

2. Parents themselves failing to realize what education really is all about - learning to think and reason and make sound decisions throughout life, rather than indoctrination (ID vs. evolution debate, anyone?). Learning a trade is also important, of course, but focusing solely on that aspect of learning misses the main point entirely.

/Oh, and Remember: 50% of all students (and parents raising them) will always have an IQ below 100.

boobsrgood: We have an ignorant culture, and we are suffering for it.

This is the correct analysis. The issues then becomes what is to be done about it, and there are no easy answers or ones that are certain to produce desired results.

i think the main thing is to know how much you can expect out of the kids. often times i think the bar is set too low. the kids get it into their heads that certain stuff is too hard and they're not smart enough to do it

orangehat: Unless kids became a hell of a lot smarter since I was in school, I'd buy it. Although half of the teachers out there are teachers because they would be the least intelligent adult in the room if they had a real job.

When you were in school being a teacher was a good job, a respected position. Now it is
underpaid, hard and criticized by tools like you!

No wonder!
If the parents can not inspire and motivate the kids, society should! Through motivated, adequately paid and respected teachers!

No, it's the system itself and No Child Left Behind. Schools are increasingly more and more focused on how to keep the kids in line and how to get them to score high on the tests than actually caring if they understand the importance of the material or how to apply it in real life. Unfortunately, without that understanding or ability to apply what's learned in the classrooms to the real world, the scores come out lower. That leads to more intense teaching to the test, and even lower scores.

I'm researching this specific issue for a college government class. I experienced NCLB first-hand and it was a farking failure. Autodidacticism is the way to go nowadays, especially with the wealth of information available on the internet.

Though, NCLB was meant to fix an already broken education system, so simply reversing it wouldn't be nearly enough. This country needs a massive education overhaul.

/in before someone snarkily points to my post as an example of failure
//I love you guys anyways. Sort of.

It's farked.

How about making education "cool?" Has anyone here been to Oakland to see the joy of how it's "uncool" to be in school? Good times...good times

It's pretty obvious to anyone that has seen Idiocracy. Kid's these days need more Brawndo. It's got electrolytes!

Bring back spankings. I had a fat-ass, egotistical prick as a principal in elementary school. That MFer would walk around the halls smacking this big wooden paddle on his leg, go pull someone out of class to bust them with the door open so everyone in the class could hear it. Yes, it is barbaric and old-fashioned. It also gets the point across that kids are in school for one reason and that is to learn.

Guy_Fawkes_FTW: I know its been said already, but GPA proves nothing. My personal opinion is that my education is getting in the way of my learning. I love to learn new things, in school or out of it, but GPA is largely determined by tests which test nothing but your ability to memorize arbitary facts.

You're right, but that's NOT how it should be.

Car_Ramrod: What's wrong with that?

You are exactly what is wrong with that! And if you are a Republican you are contributing to your own illusion!

shijjiri: No drivers license if you're beneath a 3.25 in your GPA in high school

Yay, Basket Weaving 101 for EVERYONE! No more AP Calculus or AP Chemistry!

The only broken part is where bad kids are kept in.
Any kid that is a distraction must be removed.
The army is a good place, we need more troops for Iran.
Put the kids in military training till they are 12, ship'm out.

Darwin has no elves!

shijjiri: Completely agree on stupid snowflake subject. No drivers license if you're beneath a 3.25 in your GPA in high school (with the exception to the rule now and again for extenuating circumstances). Also, I believe you should be offered incentives for graduating GPAs in college, such as government reimbursement of interest costs for a GPA of 3.65 or higher.

I am a bit bias though...

So.. basically you want to encourage people to take bullshiat majors instead of challenging ones?

I'd rather reimburse someone that graduates with a 2.0 in legitimate science than a 4.0 in psychology

No reference to the Caddyshack quote on the world's equal need for ditchdiggers? You guys are slipping....

How 'bout poor (apathetic) teachers, low funding, aaaaand the kids are stupid? Of course the first 2 contribute heavily to the third.

When I was in the 10th grade, I was living w/ my dad overseas. The school was difficult for me... mostly because I was so used to skating through without putting much effort into school (btw, that got me a mid-B average just for listening in class). This other school was run by europeans, who expect their kids to be educated. Lots of homework, and they expected you to be able to talk about the subject (not just parrot back what was in a textbook). My awful study habits made the year a tough one, and I ended up borderline B-C for that one year. When I came back... I noticed my 10th grade english textbook was being used as the 12th grade AP English textbook.

We've let our schools go to hell. They're only getting worse. I think it's not only the kids, teachers and school funding... it's our whole cultural attitude towards learning. We talk a good talk about fixing things, but never really DO anything.

Barakku
As an aside, did you know that Jackie Gleason isn't fat? He weighs only 98 pounds, but is hollow.

/duh moe u noe

turnerpunk2: It's pretty obvious to anyone that has seen Idiocracy. Kid's these days need more Brawndo. It's got electrolytes!

"Secretary of Education"

/Extra Idiocracy goodness! taco Pops!

How about parents who look on their kids as the next generation of gang members?

Raising a shorty is different than a raising a child.

>The reason our education system is failing isn't because of poor teachers or limited funding, it's because our kids are stupid

Well, yes, our kids are as stupid as you...unless you--as a parent--don't do anything before they're enrolled...

God forbid that we, as parents, should actually spend time with kids and read to them as infants and, when necessary, resort to spanking...

Then, we parents have a few, critical years to attempt to warn them about what is next, communicated by whatever means necessary...

...other than that, let them do whatever the fark they want, whenever the fark they want...because that's a whole set of learning of its own...

shijjiri: Completely agree on stupid snowflake subject. No drivers license if you're beneath a 3.25 in your GPA in high school (with the exception to the rule now and again for extenuating circumstances). Also, I believe you should be offered incentives for graduating GPAs in college, such as government reimbursement of interest costs for a GPA of 3.65 or higher.

I am a bit bias though...

You're a farkin idiot. That's probably why you talk such a big game about only nerds being allowed to drive and have rights. Dumbass.

GeidiPrime: No reference to the Caddyshack quote on the world's equal need for ditchdiggers? You guys are slipping....

I came closest. Ditch diggers, killer kids, there's a place for everyone.

/wants a gold star, big one, please, thanks.

It is probably more about babying kids into them not needing anything, and that includes an education. Helicopter parents, you bring it on yourselves!

Kids have too many distractions too keep them from their school work. Plus, parents are much too lenient nowadays. When I was a kid, I had no tv, computer, video games, etc. And if ever got less than a 90% I would get beaten and then solitary for at least an hour. It sucked at the time, but in the long run I think benefited from it.

"MY SNOWFLAKE IS PERFECT AND YOU CAN'T YELL AT, SPANK OR MAKE THEM DO ANYTHING, EVER!"

Next failed idea, please.

Look at who is doing all the farking without a care, it's the poor and the religious zealots. Neither are exactly bastions of intelligence. The truly smart today either have 1 or two kids, adopt, or just get a cat.

boobsrgood:

We have an ignorant culture, and we are suffering for it.

I couldn't agree more! Oversupply of overpriced entertainers, under supply of good teachers, scientists, engineers, etc. We'll be eating China's dust soon at this rate

Atypical Person Reading Fark:

seriously - they're trying to drive us oldsters out (I'm 50). I intend to stick it out and die in the saddle, though.

I propose that we clone you.

The only way that this no-driving-license thing could work is if a) the kid can get a driver's license if they drop out of school, b) are eligible regardless of their grades when they finish HS, and c) an employer can file to get a student employee their driver's license.

Pizza delivery people are usually high schoolers... What does the state of New Mexico have against pizza, after all?

It has been proven in psychological tests that average kids who are systematically expected to perform more poorly in a classroom environment, such as being labelled "problem children," are far more likely to conform to that designation over time. Ditto for kids who are told they are "gifted" - even when by all diagnostic standards they are entirely average.

shijjiri: I am a bit bias though...

And apparently a bit retard(ed) as well.

LeChevalier: I know it's a touchy subject but poverty definitely has a lot to do with it.
.

Now if only we could get a bad-ass white woman into a school like this. Maybe one with a military background and willing to do what it takes to motivate her students into succeeding...

If you're not allowed to make them do things, you can't teach them.

Game over.

TheJoe03: shijjiri: Completely agree on stupid snowflake subject. No drivers license if you're beneath a 3.25 in your GPA in high school (with the exception to the rule now and again for extenuating circumstances). Also, I believe you should be offered incentives for graduating GPAs in college, such as government reimbursement of interest costs for a GPA of 3.65 or higher.

I am a bit bias though...

You're a farkin idiot. That's probably why you talk such a big game about only nerds being allowed to drive and have rights. Dumbass.


They would throw rocks through your windshield.

You have to remove them somehow, make them believe they don't want or need to drive, make them proud to be ditch diggers, convince them to look down on you for having a hustle bustle busy life, unhappy, needing constantly, can't just enjoy what you have. Poor GPA bastid.

Parents are blaming their own lack of motivational skills on the teachers. And then the same are complaining about the teachers in front of the kids!
Shame on you!
Make sure that the teachers are well educated, are equipped with the best available tools and have the proper respect of parents and society.
Would you want your kid to get anything but the best treatment from a doctor? What is it worth to you? If you cannot pay, should the society pay? Or maybe this is also an exclusive service for the rich and wealthy?
A society that cannot take care of their children, their sick and their elderly is certainly an under-developed society.
US, you are behind - people are cruel and cynical, trained from young age - you should be ashamed!

How do I reach these keeds?

puffy999: Parents are the reason.

THIS

Another problem teachers face is a strong current of anti-intellectualism. It just isn't cool to be smart. Smart kids are "nerds". With some kids if you study hard and get good grades, you must be a sellout. I saw this with some of my kids friends in middle and high school. They didn't stay friends long.

Atypical Person Reading Fark:

seriously - they're trying to drive us oldsters out (I'm 50). I intend to stick it out and die in the saddle, though.

I propose that we clone you.

And give all of you a big raise; can't forget that!!

i thought it was because lots of people don't have maps


/and such as.