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(Wired)   Amish sue to prevent having to implant RFID chips, or as they like to call them, "the mark of Satan," in their livestock   (blog.wired.com) divider line 60
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1450 clicks; posted to Geek » on 12 Sep 2008 at 12:34 PM (5 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2008-09-12 11:06:17 AM
Maybe they should be branded with "Property of dumbass superstitious yokel farmer" instead.
 
2008-09-12 11:29:44 AM
CrankMyBlueSax: Maybe they should be branded with "Property of dumbass superstitious yokel farmer" instead.

What exactly makes them "dumbasses?"
 
2008-09-12 11:34:38 AM
question_dj: What exactly makes them "dumbasses?"

Putting the belief that a small bit of subcutaneous silicon is the mark of the devil ahead of public health.
 
2008-09-12 11:59:30 AM
question_dj: CrankMyBlueSax: Maybe they should be branded with "Property of dumbass superstitious yokel farmer" instead.

What exactly makes them "dumbasses?"


You didn't read the article? Or headline? Tagging livestock = the mark of the beast? Christ, even if you're a Bible literalist, what does that mean? That livestock can't buy goods and services unless they show this tag? That putting a tracking chip in Ishmael's cow is going to bring about the apocalypse?

Maybe these people should feel grateful that they live in a country that not only refrains from using their valuable land for actual prosperous cities but also protects them from other countries that would have surely invaded them by now if the US wasn't there to put up with their bullshiat.

Yes, they probably are the only real Christians on the planet who actually follow the Bible so in that case then stop suing the hand that protects you.

Or if the cops come then just build a barn around them or something.
 
2008-09-12 12:06:52 PM
I'm usually the first to say, "HURRRR UR RELIJIN IS DUM" but seriously - leave the Amish and Britney alone.
 
2008-09-12 12:11:04 PM
NittLion78: I'm usually the first to say, "HURRRR UR RELIJIN IS DUM" but seriously - leave the Amish and Britney alone.

Why?
 
2008-09-12 12:40:07 PM
screw the amish, they should be rounded up and forced to not be freaks.

/yeah thats right.
//amish reserves? we could send them to bfe wyoming or something.
//ooh, even better, prison camps w cheap labor for GM!
 
2008-09-12 12:40:20 PM
We need to stop making accomidations for religion.

I think this whole freedom of religion thing has been misconstrued to mean that we can prevent public policy and progress because we believe in fair1es tat te1 us U IS TEH DEV!L.

Yes, you can worship who you want in private / gatherings, but that should be all. No tax breaks, no effect on public school, public policy, or law.
 
2008-09-12 12:44:29 PM
Holy cow, these people are stupid.
 
2008-09-12 12:46:24 PM
Do they have to get Social Security numbers?
 
2008-09-12 12:47:12 PM
NittLion78: I'm usually the first to say, "HURRRR UR RELIJIN IS DUM" but seriously - leave the Amish and Britney alone.

Should you be allowed do decide which laws you will follow based on your personal interpretation of the bible?

because if so.............
 
2008-09-12 12:49:29 PM
Mugato: these people should feel grateful that they live in a country that not only refrains from using their valuable land for actual prosperous cities

I didn't realize there was so much demand for farmland situated in the middle of nowhere to build cities upon or that we are or would refrain from doing so.

FTA: And if they quit, U.S. citizens could be in jeopardy during a terror attack. According to the lawsuit

Discussion over, terrorism trump card played. Not bad for a bunch of Amish farmers. They did forget to say "think of the children" though.
 
2008-09-12 12:50:40 PM
Hello this is this is Onstar, how can I help you?

This is Elsie, for the love of God come quick, I've been involve in a horrible tipping incident!
 
2008-09-12 12:50:53 PM
They have a point if whatever these RFID chips are used for has no relevance to their society ever. If amish-kept cattle never enter the general circulation and have no contact with any cattle which do, then leave them be.

Just who was such a smartass in their community that they thought it was ok to go around rules-lawyering their religion anyway? Someone is rabble-rousing, and AFAIK that is very much frowned upon in Amish society. I'm sure one could just as easily find a relevant bible passage that says "Do as you're damn well told".
 
2008-09-12 12:53:09 PM
Don't LoJack my ass, bro.
 
2008-09-12 12:54:08 PM
IXI Jim IXI: Don't LoJack my ass, bro.

/Snort
 
2008-09-12 12:56:19 PM
eqtworld: Should you be allowed do decide which laws you will follow based on your personal interpretation of the bible?

because if so.............


Your rights are always balanced against the rights of others. I can't see how this person's right of refusal of forced technology violates the rights of anyone else.

Even in a completely non-religious circumstance, it's absurd that you could be forced to implant something in yourself or your pet. How would this be different?

TFA didn't even say what the RFID tags are for, which is kinda stupid when we're talking about balancing someone's rights. Even if it's about preventing disease, it's hard to justify that since we went, I don't know, thousands of years without implanting RFID tags in our livestock.
 
2008-09-12 01:01:53 PM
CrankMyBlueSax: Why?

The above reaction is probably why DOA is focusing on the Amish first, makingit sound like a "join the 20th century already" issue. It's actually more insidious (and not "public health" related either).
 
2008-09-12 01:02:49 PM
Sometimes I like to drive through Western Ontario just to take pictures and videotape the Mennonites. Then I'll write sequence numbers on them and post them all over the town. Then I'll get drunk and parade around with my unmarried pregnant girlfriend and stomp on their flowers.

All because they're weird and different. Tolerance sucks.
 
2008-09-12 01:04:28 PM
eqtworld: Do they have to get Social Security numbers?

According to this and wikipedia they don't pay social security. They probably have SSN's to pay taxes because the do do that. They just doing pay SSN taxes and recieve benefits.

http://www.amishnews.com/amisharticles/amishss.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amish
 
2008-09-12 01:06:29 PM
I grew up in Lancaster PA and I completely support the Amish. They are just about the best neighbors to have living around you. They don't bother you, they don't push their beliefs on you, they are always willing to help you, they take care of their land and each other. They are incredibly caring people and keep to themselves. I don't see the big deal in allowing them this freedom.
 
2008-09-12 01:10:01 PM
It certainly sounds like it could be the Mark Of The Beast. But has anyone ever proven that this is indeed a bad thing?
 
2008-09-12 01:10:18 PM
CrankMyBlueSax: Maybe they should be branded with "Property of dumbass superstitious yokel farmer" instead.

Maybe you should read the section of Revelation that talks about the mark of the beast. It has some interesting warnings about what happens in societies where only certain marked people are allowed to participate in an economy. basically, they collapse economically. the injustices of such a system are out of control. This has played out repeatedly in history. Revelation is a good book for framing social theory in metaphor.

Learn to read!
 
2008-09-12 01:11:47 PM
jonny_q: Even in a completely non-religious circumstance, it's absurd that you could be forced to implant something in yourself or your pet. How would this be different?

Because the government is not expected to track you or your pet, but there is a compelling reason to expect the government to track livestock.

In case you haven't noticed, there are a lot of livestock diseases in the world, and food security is a fairly important issue in this country. I mean, more people die every year from food borne illnesses than terrorist attacks.

/feels sorry for people who believe in Satan.
//not sorry enough to allow them to compromise the nation's food security.
 
2008-09-12 01:15:33 PM
dfxdeimos: We need to stop making accomidations for religion.

I think this whole freedom of religion thing has been misconstrued to mean that we can prevent public policy and progress because we believe in fair1es tat te1 us U IS TEH DEV!L.

Yes, you can worship who you want in private / gatherings, but that should be all. No tax breaks, no effect on public school, public policy, or law.


Damn that first amendment, anyway.
 
2008-09-12 01:15:46 PM
jonny_q: Even in a completely non-religious circumstance, it's absurd that you could be forced to implant something in yourself or your pet. How would this be different?

It is not required of people or pets, it is only required if you raise livestock for the commercial food supply:

When a disease outbreak occurs, animal health officials need to know:

* Which animals are involved in a disease outbreak
* Where the infected animals are currently located
* What other animals might have been exposed to the disease


Link (new window)

They Amish want to sell us food and not comply with the USDA.

My religion says that I can raise cows and not tag them, it also says I can keep the beef at room temperature for 20 hours before I sell it to you (another violation of USDA/FDA rules)

You want to sell food in the US? Play by the rules, you don't get to kill me because you believe in magic
 
2008-09-12 01:17:41 PM
Tr0mBoNe: Sometimes I like to drive through Western Ontario just to take pictures and videotape the Mennonites. Then I'll write sequence numbers on them and post them all over the town. Then I'll get drunk and parade around with my unmarried pregnant girlfriend and stomp on their flowers.

All because they're weird and different. Tolerance sucks.


Wow. That's, like, a jailable hate crime in Canada, isn't it?

/Or is that only if you did it to Jews or Sikhs?
 
2008-09-12 01:20:41 PM
I'm Amish and getting a kick out of these replies...

/solar powered wood computer
 
2008-09-12 01:21:59 PM
eqtworld: You want to sell food in the US? Play by the rules, you don't get to kill me because you believe in magic

How's all that salmonella and e.coli-infected produce sold by government-regulated farms working out for you? Want some tomatoes or jalapenos?

If they don't play by the rules, don't buy food from them. That's how the free market is supposed to work, isn't it?

/devil's advocate
 
2008-09-12 01:22:34 PM
Woah, some of the people in this thread are farking retarded.

These people own cows. They fundamentally believe in not using certain technology. They dont want their own property, businesses and operations to be handled by the Government, and FORCED to use and expend resources on technology which is not part of their daily life. It's NOT government property, the Gov has no right to force these people to do something they've avoided doing for generations.

If it as much for "health reasons" as the draconic laws implemented in the 90s were for "protecting the children." It doesn't matter, it's their property. They can do whatever they want with it, and if you don't want to buy Amish food you don't have too--most of them probably don't sell at Wal-Mart anyway, so your fatass doesn't have to worry about it.

Man, people arn't kidding when they say America is dead--even the leftist websites have morons defending the Government instead of the people.
 
2008-09-12 01:23:04 PM
All those religious weirdos. If only there were some government program to make these nutjobs wear some kind of identification so we'd know exactly who was who, and maybe paint some kind of marking on their stores, so we'd know not to patronize them.
 
2008-09-12 01:23:47 PM
hyperspacemonkey: CrankMyBlueSax: Maybe they should be branded with "Property of dumbass superstitious yokel farmer" instead.

Maybe you should read the section of Revelation that talks about the mark of the beast. It has some interesting warnings about what happens in societies where only certain marked people are allowed to participate in an economy. basically, they collapse economically. the injustices of such a system are out of control. This has played out repeatedly in history. Revelation is a good book for framing social theory in metaphor.

Learn to read!


Well, I've been reading since 1969. I've read the text you reference. I found it to be a rather poorly written bit of fiction, and I'm not getting your point. Care to take another stab at it?
 
2008-09-12 01:25:22 PM
Wow. I have to take the side of the far out religious types on this one. I don't want government being able to force this kind of thing on private citizens. I'm from a farming community with lots of Amish and know a little (I'm fully admitting I'm no expert) and I'm not sold on the idea that this will do anything at all to benefit public health.

While it is NOT the mark of the beast, it IS the mark of further government control over the lives of people who want ONLY to be left alone by government.
 
2008-09-12 01:27:52 PM
spickus: didn't realize there was so much demand for farmland situated in the middle of nowhere to build cities upon or that we are or would refrain from doing so.

It's only the middle of nowhere because nothing has been built. That's how it works. Most cities in the world were the middle of nowhere, until they were built...
 
2008-09-12 01:42:28 PM
itsdan: spickus: didn't realize there was so much demand for farmland situated in the middle of nowhere to build cities upon or that we are or would refrain from doing so.

It's only the middle of nowhere because nothing has been built. That's how it works. Most cities in the world were the middle of nowhere, until they were built...


So there is demand for farmland situated in the middle of nowhere to build cities and we are resisting the urge to take it from these people? Who knew, I thought cities grew over time village, town, city....

/I used one more . than you, I win!
 
2008-09-12 01:47:38 PM
gshepnyc: Wow. I have to take the side of the far out religious types on this one. I don't want government being able to force this kind of thing on private citizens. I'm from a farming community with lots of Amish and know a little (I'm fully admitting I'm no expert) and I'm not sold on the idea that this will do anything at all to benefit public health.

You don't think that being able to track livestock involved in a disease outbreak will benefit public health?

For all of those saying, "Don't buy Amish beef." Don't you realize that this is one instance where the government is supposed to regulate private commerce; to protect the health and safety of its citizens. Why do you think lead paint and leaded gas are not available? Do you think it is because people simply stopped buying them so suppliers switched to other types. Use your brains.
 
2008-09-12 01:50:22 PM
sojourner: They have a point if whatever these RFID chips are used for has no relevance to their society ever. If amish-kept cattle never enter the general circulation and have no contact with any cattle which do, then leave them be.

...or if there's a carrier for TB like deer that might pass through Amish farmland. Unless these cattle are hermetically sealed from the outside environment, they should be monitored.
 
2008-09-12 01:57:18 PM
Ok which is safer? a steak from an amish farmer or a steak coming out of a USDA approved meatpacking plant? Keep in mind the amish farmer's family probably ate the rest of that cow. Is he gonna poison his family by feeding them sick animals? How many beef recalls have we had in the last year? Seriously who do you trust? An amish farmer who honestly believes he'll go to hell for lying to you? or the USDA and the meatpacking industry who think a few dead people are just the price of doing business?

Who do you trust?
 
2008-09-12 01:58:34 PM
TheGreyPiper: Wow. That's, like, a jailable hate crime in Canada, isn't it?

/Or is that only if you did it to Jews or Sikhs?


Not sure... lemmie check.

/hops in car
//Let's go babe!
 
2008-09-12 02:06:42 PM
dfxdeimos: We need to stop making accomidations for religion.

I think this whole freedom of religion thing has been misconstrued to mean that we can prevent public policy and progress because we believe in fair1es tat te1 us U IS TEH DEV!L.

Yes, you can worship who you want in private / gatherings, but that should be all. No tax breaks, no effect on public school, public policy, or law.


How convenient that you want no religion at all in government. Let me guess...Atheist? Shocker.

You're just trying to get your own religious beliefs into the government, which makes you the same as them.

/leave well enough alone
 
2008-09-12 02:12:23 PM
Amirite: How convenient that you want no religion at all in government. Let me guess...Atheist? Shocker.

You're just trying to get your own religious beliefs into the government, which makes you the same as them.


super-genius.org
 
2008-09-12 02:13:10 PM
headlesschicken.ca

/udderly confused
 
2008-09-12 02:37:42 PM
aurorous: Seriously who do you trust? An amish farmer who honestly believes he'll go to hell for lying to you?

While superstition-based meat inspection does sound like a brilliant idea, you may want to Google "amish food poisoning" first.
 
2008-09-12 02:40:45 PM
spickus: Discussion over, terrorism trump card played. Not bad for a bunch of Amish farmers. They did forget to say "think of the children" though.

I can't argue that the "...but the terrorists" thing isn't bullshiat but still, they should compromise a little.
 
2008-09-12 02:48:02 PM
Mugato: spickus: Discussion over, terrorism trump card played. Not bad for a bunch of Amish farmers. They did forget to say "think of the children" though.

I can't argue that the "...but the terrorists" thing isn't bullshiat but still, they should compromise a little.


Yeah they should. I was surprised to see them stoop to shouting terrorists! I guess it's their "english" attorney.
 
2008-09-12 02:51:20 PM
In my opinion this is all about the Government collecting taxes. Many farmers sell livestock for cash and never report the income. By forcing farmers to report when and what they sold and to whom using the RFID to track it, they can confirm you should have had income and paid more taxes. The barter/cash system is effectively dead.
 
2008-09-12 03:10:14 PM
quantum_csc: gshepnyc: Wow. I have to take the side of the far out religious types on this one. I don't want government being able to force this kind of thing on private citizens. I'm from a farming community with lots of Amish and know a little (I'm fully admitting I'm no expert) and I'm not sold on the idea that this will do anything at all to benefit public health.

You don't think that being able to track livestock involved in a disease outbreak will benefit public health?

For all of those saying, "Don't buy Amish beef." Don't you realize that this is one instance where the government is supposed to regulate private commerce; to protect the health and safety of its citizens. Why do you think lead paint and leaded gas are not available? Do you think it is because people simply stopped buying them so suppliers switched to other types. Use your brains.


I'm not disputing that is their argument, just that they haven't made it satisfactorily to these people yet and "because I say so" isn't good enough. Plus, here you have a very tiny subset who don't want to be involved. Fine. Get everyone else tagged who wants to be involved and if that doesn't lead to the cause of a problem then you know by elimination it's the Amish.

Finally, if the public and butchers/distributors know there is an added risk associated with Amish beef they have the option to not buy it. Let the market take care of the problem.
 
2008-09-12 03:10:27 PM
...and they have no problem selling stuff to us English. Their candy is top notch and they do profit from the tourism industry.

1. Look, Christ is over there!
2. Implant chips into animals for merely tracking purposes
3. No real profit

Damn Satan...didn't accomplish anything....yet.
 
2008-09-12 03:19:04 PM
Cordwainer Deathbird: How's all that salmonella and e.coli-infected produce sold by government-regulated farms working out for you? Want some tomatoes or jalapenos?

Someone was murdered in Miami last week; I guess there is no point in having a law against murder
 
2008-09-12 03:21:55 PM
icstepec: if you don't want to buy Amish food you don't have too--most of them probably don't sell at Wal-Mart anyway,

You have no idea how agri-business works; do you?
 
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