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(Washington Post)   McCain spends the morning in Shanksville, because if there's one thing he knows about, it's plane crash sites   (voices.washingtonpost.com) divider line 307
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3657 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Sep 2008 at 2:25 PM (5 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2008-09-11 03:26:56 PM
ungraceful ganesha: Hang On Voltaire: Wolf_Blitzer:
McCain still pretty clearly got where he did in the Navy by being an admiral's son (not to mention Slew McCain's grandson), but at least he was a competent pilot.

All naval pilots are competent pilots. You do not fly off of or land on aircraft carriers unless you have the skills to do it. There is way too much risk involved to just hand that job to someone based on who their family is.



/hotlinked for freedom


Wow I think you just insulted Naval pilots everywhere. Bush flew in the National Guard though.
 
2008-09-11 03:27:00 PM
lexslamman: John McCain would rather stay in Iraq for another 100 years than acknowledge the kind of change we need to honor the victims of 9/11 and their families by taking a realistic approach to stopping bin Laden and his followers.

What is Obama's realistic approach to stopping Bin Laden?
 
2008-09-11 03:28:08 PM
Typical White Person: lexslamman: John McCain would rather stay in Iraq for another 100 years than acknowledge the kind of change we need to honor the victims of 9/11 and their families by taking a realistic approach to stopping bin Laden and his followers.

What is Obama's realistic approach to stopping Bin Laden?


If the Georgia crisis is any indication, just don't talk about it until someone else does.
 
2008-09-11 03:28:34 PM
Fart_Machine: Did anyone else read this as Skanksville?

I already had my travel agent on the phone.
 
2008-09-11 03:28:57 PM
ElPresidente:
You know how many times McLame was shot down? Once. You know how many planes McLame crashed? FIVE.

You know how many days Obama served in the military? Zero
You know how many years Obama attended a racist church? TWENTY
You know how many terrorists Obama served on a Board with? One
You know how many associates of Obama's are in prison? Two
You know how many drugs Obama took in high school and college? All of them

I could play this game all day.
But to Obama's credit, he does think a military career is enobling (wtf?) and...and...uhhhh...honorable
 
2008-09-11 03:31:39 PM
Well I use Mac/Linux...: Fart_Machine: Did anyone else read this as Skanksville?

I already had my travel agent on the phone.


Jerk, you made me snarf my mid-afternoon beer onto my keyboard, you shall be hearing from my lawyer...
 
2008-09-11 03:32:20 PM
Wolf_Blitzer: Typical White Person: Thunderpipes: Bush flew one of the most dangerous and difficult to fly aircraft in US history. That little fact probably never occured to Farkers though, nope.

What did Bush fly?

F-102s


"Furthermore, the F-102 was deployed to Vietnam throughout most of the conflict, and the aircraft proved its value early by deterring North Vietnamese pilots from crossing the border to attack the South. Perhaps more importantly, the F-102 and its Air National Guard pilots performed a vital role in defending the continental United States from nuclear attack."

OK I had heard a long time ago he flew F-102s because they weren't used in Viet Nam so he would be safe, which is why I copied the first sentence. The second sentence is just because it's freaking funny. Yes those planes really stopped the Russians from pushing the button!

Democratic Underground (new window)
 
2008-09-11 03:33:12 PM
lexslamman: John McCain would rather stay in Iraq for another 100 years than acknowledge the kind of change we need to honor the victims of 9/11 and their families by taking a realistic approach to stopping bin Laden and his followers.

You mean sending troops into Pakistan to root them out of the mountains there once and for all and say to hell with what Pakistan has to say about it? Is that the realistic approach. Just sit back and watch... McCain will take that approach. And not have to forsake Iraq so you can sit back in smug satisfaction of the defeat of the country and say "Ha! I was right!"
 
2008-09-11 03:35:20 PM
As much as it is compelling to believe 93 was shot down, think about this: This is a big ass website with tonnes of users, many either residing in Pennsylvania today or were 7 years ago...that means that we should be able to have at least ONE person posting who actually saw the event in question, not second-hand hearsay.

/I'm not buying the story on the Pentagon though
//That's farked up
 
2008-09-11 03:36:09 PM
aquigley: How many of you think United 93 was actually shot down?

I think it was shot down, mostly because of preliminary reports that IMO haven't been negated by evidence. I think the reason the Bush admin covered it up is because they're too stupid to realize the difference between justifiable action and totally inappropriate action.
 
2008-09-11 03:37:35 PM
danlpoon: It's hard to agree that Iraq isn't cooling off. They're signing-off on the Security Agreement, there is unprecedented cooperation among the Sunni and Shia in the Iraqi gov't and the rebuilding efforts have yielded nearly 100% restoration of municipal services.

Are you serious? "Restoration of municipal services"? They're still struggling with cholera outbreaks, ffs.
 
2008-09-11 03:37:38 PM
etyer: lexslamman: John McCain would rather stay in Iraq for another 100 years than acknowledge the kind of change we need to honor the victims of 9/11 and their families by taking a realistic approach to stopping bin Laden and his followers.

You mean sending troops into Pakistan to root them out of the mountains there once and for all and say to hell with what Pakistan has to say about it? Is that the realistic approach. Just sit back and watch... McCain will take that approach. And not have to forsake Iraq so you can sit back in smug satisfaction of the defeat of the country and say "Ha! I was right!"


Except he won't. He wouldn't. He said he wouldn't. He criticized Obama for saying he would.

There you go again, chump.
 
2008-09-11 03:37:44 PM
There is way too much risk involved to just hand job to someone based on who their family is.

Hand jobs? Not in my Navy.
 
2008-09-11 03:37:59 PM
Gwendolyn: Psycho Zombie Monkey: (other than Gwendolyn's office mate's girlfriend - who did know guy who saw Ferris faint at 31 Flavors)who actually saw the shoot down (mid air explosions tend to be visible for miles) or jets streaking away.

Well, number one, I was sitting next to him when she called so it's like second hand. Number two as I said I assumed she saw jets in the sky after and was confused.


Sorry...not trying to poke at you...just wanted to get in a Ferris reference
 
2008-09-11 03:39:30 PM
aquigley: ? for Farkers, especially PA ones because I can feel that this will go green:

How many of you think United 93 was actually shot down?

My in-laws are all from PA, and every single one of them states this as a fact. Some are Republican, most are Democrats, but they don't disagree on this.

Personally, I'm not sure if it matters...if they had to shoot it down, they had to. And it doesn't take anything away from the passengers that fought back in-flight.

Just wondering.


I think it was, but I have to admit I can't really back that up. Real life is not an action movie, and the stories coming out of flight 93 just sound a little too scripted for me. "Let's roll?" Really?

I feel for those folks and their families, and I hope to God they did go down fighting, but I don't think the official account is anywhere close to what happened. I think the towers and Pentagon had just been hit, the government had no idea how many other threats were still in the air, and they just took the plane down before things could get any worse. I don't have a huge problem with that, but if my family had been in that plane, I would have a big problem with the government turning it into propaganda.
 
2008-09-11 03:39:31 PM
Der Poopflinger: Freezebyte: Der Poopflinger: how do people that old get up for election?

And how do people with such stupid names get approved?

was that a shot at me? 'cuz if it is, the answer is blackmail and bribery.



Oh, so it's just like the presidential election. Good to know, good to know.
 
2008-09-11 03:40:22 PM
Doc Batarang: As much as it is compelling to believe 93 was shot down, think about this: This is a big ass website with tonnes of users, many either residing in Pennsylvania today or were 7 years ago...that means that we should be able to have at least ONE person posting who actually saw the event in question, not second-hand hearsay.


Actually some of the best proof I've heard and one reason why I doubt it.

As a side note, it was in the morning so I would assume most of the people here should have either been at work or school. Most of the people who told me they saw it were older people and a few younger that worked night shift.

Its very likely that the older people are senile...
 
2008-09-11 03:41:29 PM
Gwendolyn
That was a very shiatty day at work. My coont of a boss actually expected us to get work done AND have the board of directors meeting that evening. "there's nothing you can do about it. Turn off the TV"

That's what most of us did. What compounded this was these wusses that stayed home for a week, and the %#@& NFL delaying the season for what, 6 weeks? Way to play into the terrorists game.
 
2008-09-11 03:41:39 PM
Are you serious? "Restoration of municipal services"? They're still struggling with cholera outbreaks, ffs.

Water, sewer, electricity. All working like a charm. Is it our fault these people wipe with the same bare hand they eat with?
No.
 
2008-09-11 03:41:54 PM
 
2008-09-11 03:42:06 PM
Floridadude: I am sorry but of all the things that we can poke fun at, this tragic event is not funny nor should we use anythng or anyone's sincere attempt to pay respect as a joke. Any one of us could of lost a loved one or realitve in that event. I like a good laugh once in a while as anyone else but Drew, shame on you for this one. A time and place for everything, this day, this was not the time.

You new here?

7 Years is long enough of a delta to make it funny

Also...in my experience, anyone that states 'I like a good laugh once in a while like everyone else' is either a humorless douche (but thinks otherwise) or German.
 
2008-09-11 03:42:35 PM
Gwendolyn: You sound nice. Please note that I never mentioned that Senator Obama, my senator, is a Muslim. Though he was raised as one, we know that he now follows the Black Liberation faith. I didn't say the senator's supporters are Muslim. As far as the memorial, if it's true, the design speaks for itself.

It's important for us to remember the folks who died and those who are protecting us with their lives now, but it is even more important for our next president to remember, and to understand, the threat that still exists. It did not end with "12 wackos".
 
2008-09-11 03:42:36 PM
etyer: lexslamman: John McCain would rather stay in Iraq for another 100 years than acknowledge the kind of change we need to honor the victims of 9/11 and their families by taking a realistic approach to stopping bin Laden and his followers.

You mean sending troops into Pakistan to root them out of the mountains there once and for all and say to hell with what Pakistan has to say about it? Is that the realistic approach. Just sit back and watch... McCain will take that approach. And not have to forsake Iraq so you can sit back in smug satisfaction of the defeat of the country and say "Ha! I was right!"


Republicans have failed this country so many times in the war on terror since 2001 that, even in the worst case scenario that John W. McBush and what's-her-name end up miraculously winning this campaign, they should not be entrusted with the campaign against al Qaeda. If it wasn't for the flawed judgement of McCain, Bush, and their party chances are we would have destroyed a Qaeda gotten bin Laden already or at least stomped out most of the Taliban.

We definitely need to change direction on terrorism policy, and not go for another 4 years that resemble the mediocre results of the last.
 
2008-09-11 03:42:41 PM
pandabear: To be fair, half-drowned with two broken legs and a broken arm, your chances of escape and evasion from the capital of the country you just bombed is relatively small, wouldn't you say?

Probably. But I'll bet a few French soldiers were pretty roughed up in WWII also, yet that doesn't stop us from picking on them.

People seriously gotta lighten up and/or grow a thicker skin.
 
2008-09-11 03:43:27 PM
Mark Bingham was a frat brother of mine so I'm really getting a kick out of these replies.

/ Not really, I miss the dude.
 
2008-09-11 03:44:29 PM
libbynomore2: I'd like to thank subby for this illustriative headline, and of course, the responses. This will make a great McCain campaign commercial:

" This is how Obama and his supporters feel about 9-11 and those who serve this country. "


I really appreciate your honesty. America deserves to know where you people are coming from. Please, keep on yapping.



Okay, here's one better: 9/11 happened. Shiat happens. Get over it. I'm tired of hearing about it, and I don't live in fear of it happening again, no matter how badly you want me to.
 
2008-09-11 03:44:53 PM
aquigley: ? for Farkers, especially PA ones because I can feel that this will go green:

How many of you think United 93 was actually shot down?

My in-laws are all from PA, and every single one of them states this as a fact. Some are Republican, most are Democrats, but they don't disagree on this.

Personally, I'm not sure if it matters...if they had to shoot it down, they had to. And it doesn't take anything away from the passengers that fought back in-flight.

Just wondering.


It flew over my house. It was NOT shot down.
 
2008-09-11 03:45:53 PM
lexslamman: Republicans have failed this country so many times in the war on terror since 2001 that, even in the worst case scenario that John W. McBush and what's-her-name end up miraculously winning this campaign, they should not be entrusted with the campaign against al Qaeda. If it wasn't for the flawed judgement of McCain, Bush, and their party chances are we would have destroyed a Qaeda gotten bin Laden already or at least stomped out most of the Taliban.

We definitely need to change direction on terrorism policy, and not go for another 4 years that resemble the mediocre results of the last.


Great. So, what is Obama's realistic approach to stopping Bin Laden?
 
2008-09-11 03:46:20 PM
Darth Lebowski
That image almost works, but it still needs to end with "cocksucker" or it's not Deadwood accurate.

I was a little worried about NSFW, but I figure it'd squeek by. :D
 
2008-09-11 03:47:24 PM
www.mariowiki.com
 
2008-09-11 03:48:30 PM
danlpoon: Are you serious? "Restoration of municipal services"? They're still struggling with cholera outbreaks, ffs.

Water, sewer, electricity. All working like a charm. Is it our fault these people wipe with the same bare hand they eat with?
No.


Cholera comes from tainted water. You might be thinking of Shigilosis.

Oxfam reported that 70% of Iraqis are without running water as of July/08. Apparently there were some huge improvements recently?
 
2008-09-11 03:49:26 PM
sseye: etyer: lexslamman: John McCain would rather stay in Iraq for another 100 years than acknowledge the kind of change we need to honor the victims of 9/11 and their families by taking a realistic approach to stopping bin Laden and his followers.

You mean sending troops into Pakistan to root them out of the mountains there once and for all and say to hell with what Pakistan has to say about it? Is that the realistic approach. Just sit back and watch... McCain will take that approach. And not have to forsake Iraq so you can sit back in smug satisfaction of the defeat of the country and say "Ha! I was right!"

Except he won't. He wouldn't. He said he wouldn't. He criticized Obama for saying he would.

There you go again, chump.



Oh, ye who have little faith in the changing tactics of warfare. With the new Pakistani government in place, we have already begun incursions into Pakistan with commandoes and unmanned drones. It is only a matter of time before we send troops in and get the job done. We did it in Cambodia and said we wouldn't. We'll do it again. Just because McCain said he wouldn't doesn't mean the situation won't change or even that the Pakistani government would either "overlook" the operations or even actively engage in them with us, but never publicly disclose it...
 
2008-09-11 03:51:02 PM
Wolf_Blitzer: Typical White Person: Thunderpipes: Bush flew one of the most dangerous and difficult to fly aircraft in US history. That little fact probably never occured to Farkers though, nope.

What did Bush fly?

F-102s


Coke
 
2008-09-11 03:52:13 PM
aquigley: ? for Farkers, especially PA ones because I can feel that this will go green:

How many of you think United 93 was actually shot down?

My in-laws are all from PA, and every single one of them states this as a fact. Some are Republican, most are Democrats, but they don't disagree on this.


I blame inbreeding, myself.
 
2008-09-11 03:52:33 PM
TheLoneDrunkman: As a side note, it was in the morning so I would assume most of the people here should have either been at work or school. Most of the people who told me they saw it were older people and a few younger that worked night shift.

Its very likely that the older people are senile...


I didn't have to go into work until 10 because I had a board meeting from 6-8. I was on the treadmill flipping channels around 8:50 and saw Katie Couric saying there was a fire in the WTC and small aircraft had hit it. I said "Who gives a shiat outside Manhattan?" and started to watch a show I had taped a few nights before. I hurried up showered and walked the 1/2 block to work around 9:40 and the place was LOUD and I watched a plane plow into the Pentagon. I had things explained to be just in time to watch them fall. It was a farked up day.
 
2008-09-11 03:54:13 PM
Oxfam reported that 70% of Iraqis are without running water as of July/08. Apparently there were some huge improvements recently?

Only 20% had running water under Hussein (not Hussein Obama, the less bad one, Saddam Hussein).

You guys know Iraq was a cess-pool before we got there, right? It's not like we bombed a real country.
 
2008-09-11 03:54:31 PM
Rodddxl: But to Obama's credit, he does think a military career is enobling (wtf?) and...and...uhhhh...honorable


www.bbc.co.uk
Enobling is a perfectly cromulant word.
 
2008-09-11 04:00:30 PM
danlpoon: You guys know Iraq was a cess-pool before we got there, right? It's not like we bombed a real country.

Shouldn't you be "traveling"?
 
2008-09-11 04:01:02 PM
Typical White Person: etyer: For all the dumbasses in here saying he crashed five planes, let's examine at least two of the instances:

One "crash" was when he was shot down.

The other "crash" involved him sitting in the cockpit of his jet on the flight deck of the USS Forrestal. A missile on another jet malfunctioned and was fired across the deck, hitting the jet next to McCain's. The Forrestal was nearly lost in the ensuing fire and horrible explosions.

And a burnout of a jet in another crash, I would say, was not all that uncommon.

I'm not saying the guy was a great pilot or anything, but to say "BUT, BUT HE CRASHED FIVE TIMES!!!! OMG!!!!" is completely false. I wouldn't count two of those.

Ya morons.

This.

McCain had mechanical problems twice, was shot down once and had a fourth plane destroyed on the deck of the Forrestal. By the way, he was apparently trying to help rescue another pilot when one of the bombs went off on the Forrestal.

The fifth incident which is usually cited involves power lines near the Mediterranean in which his plane never crashed.

Instead of being a lousy pilot as the left attempts to claim, he appears to have been quite heroic.

None of these incidents prevented McCain from winning regular promotions and being assigned additional flight duty. The Navy praised his "aggressiveness and skillful airmanship" when awarding him the Navy Commendation Medal for an attack Oct. 18, 1967, on a shipyard in Haiphong, North Vietnam, prior to his capture. The Navy also commended his "superb airmanship" in awarding him the Distinguished Flying Cross for a bombing attack on a Hanoi power plant Oct. 26, 1967. His plane was hit by a surface-to-air missile on that mission, but he "continued his bomb delivery pass and released his bombs over the target" before being forced to eject, according to the official citation.


I will not be voting for McCain but I never questioned his military record or the innuendo of five plane crashes.

If you watch the films of the Forrestal fire, you can see McCain nearly getting killed by an explosion. video

I disagree with McCain's proposed policies. His outlook, however, doesn't make me feel like running down his obvious bravery while in the military. He toted his brassies in a wheelbarrow back then.
 
2008-09-11 04:01:30 PM
Shincox: No doubt most of you Obama voters can get behind this (pops)

WAAAAARGARRRRBL! Anyone who doesn't suck republican dick in the airport bathroom is an America-hater™.

shut up. If you hate half of america so much, leave.
 
2008-09-11 04:03:23 PM
i4.photobucket.com
 
2008-09-11 04:04:08 PM
CruzAzul 2008-09-11 03:09:25 PM
etyer: I'm not saying the guy was a great pilot or anything, but to say "BUT, BUT HE CRASHED FIVE TIMES!!!! OMG!!!!" is completely false. I wouldn't count two of those.

OK, fair enough. How about instead we count the number of times he surrendered to the North Vietnamese? The freepers here can then tell us the acceptable number of times for a wannabe president to surrender to the enemy. And then we're all happy.


Not that I personally give a shiat, but at least McCain went to Vietnam...
 
2008-09-11 04:05:30 PM
Oh...

The "crash site" consisting of a shallow ditch? The "crash site" where a 60 ton plane disappeared into a hole in the ground and was never recovered? The "crash site" where the coroner left after twenty minutes because there were no bodies? The "crash site" that was surrounded by an eight mile debris field?

Sorry folks. The Hollywooden depiction of the "heroic" cockpit breach by the food cart just did not happen...but is now part of the common consciousness thanks to the repeating of a lie.

And sorry again folks, but jets blew flight 93 out of the sky.

But there are far more people chiming in around here who prefer bedtime stories to the truth, so keep on sleepin'.
 
2008-09-11 04:08:22 PM
fernt: Oh...

The "crash site" consisting of a shallow ditch? The "crash site" where a 60 ton plane disappeared into a hole in the ground and was never recovered? The "crash site" where the coroner left after twenty minutes because there were no bodies? The "crash site" that was surrounded by an eight mile debris field?

Sorry folks. The Hollywooden depiction of the "heroic" cockpit breach by the food cart just did not happen...but is now part of the common consciousness thanks to the repeating of a lie.

And sorry again folks, but jets blew flight 93 out of the sky.

But there are far more people chiming in around here who prefer bedtime stories to the truth, so keep on sleepin'.


I'm curious. What is like? Really? What IS it like?
 
2008-09-11 04:10:20 PM
Subby Fails

/-911
 
2008-09-11 04:12:11 PM
fernt: Oh...

The "crash site" consisting of a shallow ditch? The "crash site" where a 60 ton plane disappeared into a hole in the ground and was never recovered? The "crash site" where the coroner left after twenty minutes because there were no bodies? The "crash site" that was surrounded by an eight mile debris field?

Sorry folks. The Hollywooden depiction of the "heroic" cockpit breach by the food cart just did not happen...but is now part of the common consciousness thanks to the repeating of a lie.

And sorry again folks, but jets blew flight 93 out of the sky.

But there are far more people chiming in around here who prefer bedtime stories to the truth, so keep on sleepin'.


Actually, if it WAS blown out of the sky, there would be bodies all over the place. I lived in cerritos, CA in the 80's when a small plane collided with an Aero-Mexico airliner at cruise altitude, there were bodies raining down on the neighborhood. Also, see images from the Iranian jetliner we shot down, there were plenty of bodies scattered in the ocean.
 
2008-09-11 04:12:37 PM
Beemer: Wolf_Blitzer: Typical White Person: Thunderpipes: Bush flew one of the most dangerous and difficult to fly aircraft in US history. That little fact probably never occured to Farkers though, nope.

What did Bush fly?

F-102s

Coke


I guess Obama was only snorting coke while he was organizing the community.
 
2008-09-11 04:12:48 PM
Drunk Astronaut:

If you watch the films of the Forrestal fire, you can see McCain nearly getting killed by an explosion. video


The historical video used is from the flight deck. But the so-called "wet start" is impossible in a jet that doesn't have an afterburner. Not to mention, how was he trying to startle the pilot behind him when the aft of his jet was off the flight deck? Not to mention that the video itself shows this. And the video also shows the rocket coming from another jet on the starboard side of the flight deck.

Not only do the Naval records support this, I worked for a guy for a year who served on the USS Forrestal when it was recommissioned after repairs. He served with a lot of the survivors from that day.
 
2008-09-11 04:13:19 PM
fernt: Oh...

The "crash site" consisting of a shallow ditch? The "crash site" where a 60 ton plane disappeared into a hole in the ground and was never recovered? The "crash site" where the coroner left after twenty minutes because there were no bodies? The "crash site" that was surrounded by an eight mile debris field?

Sorry folks. The Hollywooden depiction of the "heroic" cockpit breach by the food cart just did not happen...but is now part of the common consciousness thanks to the repeating of a lie.

And sorry again folks, but jets blew flight 93 out of the sky.

But there are far more people chiming in around here who prefer bedtime stories to the truth, so keep on sleepin'.


Ahhhh look at the conspiracy theorist trying to make a point. How cute.......
 
2008-09-11 04:13:25 PM
peeny bunslinger: El Farquistador: But I just believe that the government is too inept to pull that off.

A farking golfer Payne Stewart's plane went unresponsive and within 10 76 minutes there were jets was a jet flying alongside himnearby, after two other jets had failed to intercept the flight. The government, in this area as in all others, is definitely not inept. They were told to stand down. 'Cept for that plane in Shanksville, that shiat was shot down. You can believe the government, which lies to us constantly, or you can believe the numerous honest dumb citizens with nothing to gain by not telling the truth except eternal fame on truther websites.


Fixed.

Payne Stewart's plane (new window)
 
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