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(CNN)   Some New Orleans residents can't, won't leave. This is not a repeat... oh hell, yes it is   (cnn.com) divider line 436
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14589 clicks; posted to Main » on 31 Aug 2008 at 9:08 AM (5 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2008-08-31 11:13:07 AM
dofus: I was referring to the guy's intention of sleeping in his car. Read before typing.

If it turns into 'weeks', that means your place of residence is flooded/wrecked/whatever. Unlivable. You still have to find somewhere else to live.

But if you evacuated beforehand, no matter how uncomfortable, you did not die. Or have to risk a Coasties life plucking you off your roof.

Not having enough money for a hotel 'tonight' is no reason not to evacuate.
 
2008-08-31 11:13:23 AM
Now once, you had a dream of oceans and sunken cities, memories of things you've never known.
img.photobucket.com
 
2008-08-31 11:15:13 AM
All the federal government had to do is release the funds and order the Army Corps of Engineers to have the levees built to withstand category 5 storm surges.

By the time anyone can devise a structure that will (with 100% certainty) keep a Cat 5 storm surge at bay...and then the many years it will take to build it, there will be at least a couple of storms that come along and demolish NO again.
 
2008-08-31 11:15:28 AM
lexslamman: The President didn't tell people to evacuate before Katrina

Good. That is not within his duties. State and local officials do that. State and local officials also design their local emergency plans. Which, if they are any good, they should follow. Did Ray follow his own plan last time? No, he winged it.
 
2008-08-31 11:15:33 AM
They are the few residents who did not make the tortoise crawl down Interstate 10 on Saturday.

To be fair that was a freaking nightmare. We made 90 miles in six hours. After that I went to sleep, but it still took 15 hours to get down to Orlando. I really wish they had opened up the other side of the highway earlier, but I understand the need for some people to get in and pick up friends and relatives.

Also, the people that I met that were staying were doing so because of their businesses. But when we talked to them that was before It seemed to be "the storm of the century". Hopefully they've gotten out or will be.
 
2008-08-31 11:16:16 AM
GOP Policy 101:

1) Massively cut revenue to federal government
2) Devolve most constitutionally intended responsibilities of federal government onto state governemnts
3) Massively cut revenue to state governments
4) Devolve most constitutionally intended responsibilities of federal and state governments onto local governments
5) Massively cut revenue to local governments
6) Fail to meet the responsibilities of any level of government
7) Sit on your hands while a major natural disaster occurs and wait an interminable amount of time before doing anything about it
8) The Aristocrats!
 
2008-08-31 11:17:21 AM
YouPeopleAreCrazy: lexslamman: The President didn't tell people to evacuate before Katrina

Good. That is not within his duties. State and local officials do that. State and local officials also design their local emergency plans. Which, if they are any good, they should follow. Did Ray follow his own plan last time? No, he winged it.


Really? So I guess the whole Homeland Security thing isn't within federal executive duties, right?
 
2008-08-31 11:17:36 AM
YouPeopleAreCrazy: dofus: I was referring to the guy's intention of sleeping in his car. Read before typing.

If it turns into 'weeks', that means your place of residence is flooded/wrecked/whatever. Unlivable. You still have to find somewhere else to live.

But if you evacuated beforehand, no matter how uncomfortable, you did not die. Or have to risk a Coasties life plucking you off your roof.

Not having enough money for a hotel 'tonight' is no reason not to evacuate.


Not true. My house had minor roof damage, a destroyed water heater, a window breaking, and some minor water damage. However, there was no food, water, power, gas, or phones for over three weeks. If I had a stockpile of those, then I could've stayed with no problems. If I did not, then I would've died of some combination of heat exhaustion, dehydration, or starvation. I was lucky enough to have relatives to stay with. If I hadn't, I would've been, in very simple terms, royally farked since I didn't have the money for a hotel either.
 
2008-08-31 11:18:51 AM
YixilTesiphon: GnosticGnome: dofus:

I wasn't a big fan of Florida's ex-Gov Jeb Bush but I gave the man big points for making life miserable for our little Indian or Pakistani friends running clapped out motels in one horse towns who would look you square in the eye and say "Why yes, I always charge $220 a night." or the gas stations with pumps that magically went to $6/gal overnight.

Please point that out to the Gov of MS. Gas has been increasing in a direct inverse relationship to the distance between the Gulf coast and Gustav.
I went to work Fri. night and gas was 3.67/gal. Sat morn it was 3.84/gal. Understand it is now over $4/gal some places and going up like a shuttle launch as we speak.


B-b-but Bush!

/Support waxing.
//We can defeat butt-bush once and for all
 
2008-08-31 11:19:19 AM
libbynomore2: lexslamman 2008-08-31 11:08:55 AM
mabelkitty: Hopefully, this will be the last demolition required to pave over NO and make it a National Park.

New Orleans is a national treasure and an integral port for this country. All the federal government had to do is release the funds and order the Army Corps of Engineers to have the levees built to withstand category 5 storm surges.

Did they?


I would ask you what President has EVER taken this " National Treasure " seriously enough to build the levees to withstand something like oh, say KATRINA?


Certainly not the Bush administration and their crony, John McCAin, who cut funding for levee improvements leaving levees and floodwalls built too short and too shallow. Its all in the ACoE reports. The same infrastructure cuts are responsible for things like the bridge collapse in Minneapolis.
 
2008-08-31 11:19:49 AM
lexslamman: Really? So I guess the whole Homeland Security thing isn't within federal executive duties, right?

DHS is not directly responsible for designing each and every cities evac plan for every possible emergency.
 
2008-08-31 11:19:50 AM
libbynomore2: lexslamman 2008-08-31 11:08:55 AM
mabelkitty: Hopefully, this will be the last demolition required to pave over NO and make it a National Park.

New Orleans is a national treasure and an integral port for this country. All the federal government had to do is release the funds and order the Army Corps of Engineers to have the levees built to withstand category 5 storm surges.

Did they?


I would ask you what President has EVER taken this " National Treasure " seriously enough to build the levees to withstand something like oh, say KATRINA?

Also, tell me what you know about how the levee boards work in N.O.

If you don't know then you really need to STFU.


Too add on, the levees were only to be made to take a Cat 3 hurricane. Building it sustain a Cat 5 would most likely not be warranted, because at that point, the storm surge is the last of anyone's worries. Yeah, it sucks that they weren't ready for Katrina, and that they weren't fixed for Gustav, but if someone chooses to live in NO (or any city for that matter) and expect to survive off of the federal dollar in an emergency, then they are (most of the time) going to be shiat out of luck. I don't expect the state of CT to come to my house to give me food and hot water during a blizzard, nor do I expect them to come plow my driveway afterward.

Which, in turn, brings us back to the original downfall of many people: lack of pre-planning for disasters known to the area.
 
2008-08-31 11:21:50 AM
RoxtarRyan: libbynomore2: lexslamman 2008-08-31 11:08:55 AM
mabelkitty: Hopefully, this will be the last demolition required to pave over NO and make it a National Park.

New Orleans is a national treasure and an integral port for this country. All the federal government had to do is release the funds and order the Army Corps of Engineers to have the levees built to withstand category 5 storm surges.

Did they?


I would ask you what President has EVER taken this " National Treasure " seriously enough to build the levees to withstand something like oh, say KATRINA?

Also, tell me what you know about how the levee boards work in N.O.

If you don't know then you really need to STFU.

Too add on, the levees were only to be made to take a Cat 3 hurricane. Building it sustain a Cat 5 would most likely not be warranted, because at that point, the storm surge is the last of anyone's worries. Yeah, it sucks that they weren't ready for Katrina, and that they weren't fixed for Gustav, but if someone chooses to live in NO (or any city for that matter) and expect to survive off of the federal dollar in an emergency, then they are (most of the time) going to be shiat out of luck. I don't expect the state of CT to come to my house to give me food and hot water during a blizzard, nor do I expect them to come plow my driveway afterward.


But you do expect them to plow the highways and get the trains running again, right?
 
2008-08-31 11:22:53 AM
RoxtarRyan:
Planning ahead... if I can do it, anyone can. It doesn't take a whole lot of time and money to do it, and can be a real life saver.


Went through Katrina. I live 40 miles inland but lost everything.

I have had a generator for a long time, and I have used it on several occasions, last of which was while getting the new place up and running.
The problem here is somewhat odd to you far-notherners. A lot of folks down here, of all races, live on bare subsistance wages, sometimes from lack of skills or laziness, but sometimes for reasons not under their control. These are the people that get hammered the worst in a disaster. It is almost harder to survive in the heat than in the cold, because of the insects, snakes, dehydration, molds, and a number of other factors that can bring you down before you realize it's happening.

I am not making excuses for how things work down here, but please try to take them into consideration. It can get tough here, and while we may be a mystery to the rest of America, we do get things done when things need doing.

I am a transplant here, but I have grown to have great respect for the guts and fortitude of the people down here.

Yes, some may be lazy and biatch and whine that the government needs to help them out, but meanwhile the rest of us are picking up the pieces and getting on with life.
 
2008-08-31 11:23:39 AM
lexslamman 2008-08-31 11:21:50 AM
RoxtarRyan: libbynomore2: lexslamman 2008-08-31 11:08:55 AM
mabelkitty: Hopefully, this will be the last demolition required to pave over NO and make it a National Park.

New Orleans is a national treasure and an integral port for this country. All the federal government had to do is release the funds and order the Army Corps of Engineers to have the levees built to withstand category 5 storm surges.

Did they?


I would ask you what President has EVER taken this " National Treasure " seriously enough to build the levees to withstand something like oh, say KATRINA?

Also, tell me what you know about how the levee boards work in N.O.

If you don't know then you really need to STFU.

Too add on, the levees were only to be made to take a Cat 3 hurricane. Building it sustain a Cat 5 would most likely not be warranted, because at that point, the storm surge is the last of anyone's worries. Yeah, it sucks that they weren't ready for Katrina, and that they weren't fixed for Gustav, but if someone chooses to live in NO (or any city for that matter) and expect to survive off of the federal dollar in an emergency, then they are (most of the time) going to be shiat out of luck. I don't expect the state of CT to come to my house to give me food and hot water during a blizzard, nor do I expect them to come plow my driveway afterward.


But you do expect them to plow the highways and get the trains running again, right?


Yeah, knowing what's coming, that would have been billions well spent......oh, wait........
 
2008-08-31 11:23:47 AM
lexslamman: Certainly not the Bush administration and their crony, John McCAin, who cut funding for levee improvements leaving levees and floodwalls built too short and too shallow.

These cuts you refer to...do you know exactly what they applied to? No.

They were cuts in funding for a ACoE study to determine what was needed to build the levees up to withstand a stronger hurricane.
Said study wasn't supposed to be completed until, IIRC, next year.

Study, not construction.

That said, those levees DO need to be built up. But you 'But BOOOOSH...' is showing.
 
2008-08-31 11:24:27 AM
Ok the important question,

who is hotter, the librarian looking hurricane blonde on WWL or the traffic girl on WDSU?

Streaming NOLA stations (new window)
 
2008-08-31 11:25:13 AM
Abstruse: YouPeopleAreCrazy: dofus: I was referring to the guy's intention of sleeping in his car. Read before typing.

If it turns into 'weeks', that means your place of residence is flooded/wrecked/whatever. Unlivable. You still have to find somewhere else to live.

But if you evacuated beforehand, no matter how uncomfortable, you did not die. Or have to risk a Coasties life plucking you off your roof.

Not having enough money for a hotel 'tonight' is no reason not to evacuate.

Not true. My house had minor roof damage, a destroyed water heater, a window breaking, and some minor water damage. However, there was no food, water, power, gas, or phones for over three weeks. If I had a stockpile of those, then I could've stayed with no problems. If I did not, then I would've died of some combination of heat exhaustion, dehydration, or starvation. I was lucky enough to have relatives to stay with. If I hadn't, I would've been, in very simple terms, royally farked since I didn't have the money for a hotel either.


maybe i am just that kind of person, but when there is a major disaster and your very survival is at stake, while i don't agree (much) with walking into circuit city and making off with a truckload of plasma screens, there is absolutely nothing morally wrong with going into a shop and taking the food you need to survive.
maybe you make an accounting of what you take and pay the shop owner when he reopens, (though if you do so i recommend sending the money anonymously, to avoid the off chance he will want to prosecute)
 
2008-08-31 11:26:37 AM
Michael Moore:"I was just thinking, this Gustav is proof that there is a God in heaven,"Moore said, laughing.

A just and fair god. And after he saw the disaster that happened in Denver, he sent a hurricane to even out the score for the Republicans.
 
2008-08-31 11:27:35 AM
lexslamman: But you do expect them to plow the highways and get the trains running again, right?

Those are items that are in the budget to be done normally, and paid for by our extremely high taxes. I remember when the state was shut down a few years ago, including the highways and whatnot, and no one really complained about it since trying to plow snow and ice when it was coming down at 6"/hour was not worth risking the lives of the drivers. Since they were shut down, it actually opened up the highways to all of us who own snowmobiles to tear it up for a while.

To answer, while I do hope that they get those items done, I do not expect it to be done under extreme circumstances. Luckily, neither of those items impact my daily life, as I do not need to travel by highway or train to get to work, do shopping, or do anything else needed to survive.
 
2008-08-31 11:28:15 AM
funny, I asked what you people know about the CORRUPT levee boards in N.O. and all I got was bu bu but Bush......


If you can't speak to the billions of dollars provided them over the years that they used to line their own pockets instead of upgrading and maintaining the levees, then you really need to STFU
 
2008-08-31 11:31:24 AM
Professor would you say its time for people to crack each others heads open and feast on the goo inside?

Yes I would Kent.
 
2008-08-31 11:32:11 AM
libbynomore2: funny, I asked what you people know about the CORRUPT levee boards in N.O. and all I got was bu bu but Bush......


If you can't speak to the billions of dollars provided them over the years that they used to line their own pockets instead of upgrading and maintaining the levees, then you really need to STFU


Welcome all to Southern Politics 101!

First lesson is......

/BTW - isn't Nagin a democrat?
//Just asking....
 
2008-08-31 11:33:16 AM
libbynomore2: funny, I asked what you people know about the CORRUPT levee boards in N.O. and all I got was bu bu but Bush......


If you can't speak to the billions of dollars provided them over the years that they used to line their own pockets instead of upgrading and maintaining the levees, then you really need to STFU


THIS
 
2008-08-31 11:33:23 AM
Wasn't FEMA or the federal Gov's job to get people out last time, isn't this time either...always was, always will be a LOCAL/STATE responsibility (not to mention, a personal respnsibility) . Difference this time: Louisiana has a REAL governor in office (still the same asshat mayor though; how much 'chocolate' will be left this time Ray?)
 
2008-08-31 11:33:27 AM
mvfreeman 2008-08-31 11:26:17 AM
lexslamman The President didn't tell people to evacuate before Katrina - he was too busy playing guitar and cutting John McCain's birthday cake. Mayor Nagin told everyone to get out.

Furthermore, doesn't it make sense that the federal government has more power and resources to look after the citizens of those cities and states than the relatively small and less powerful state and local governments?


No what's outrageous is that Former Gov. Blanco REFUSED to allow Federal aid in the days and weeks after Katrina because she didn't want to give up the power and control. What's even more offensive to me is that people like you are so clueless that you didn't even know that FACT, or that if you did, you continue to lie about it.

Yes, the Fed's had the resources, but the lame Gov and Mayor refused to accept it. That's why I hope that Bush declares Marshall law and sends troops in to force dumbass or disaffected residents out of their homes, but gun point if necessary if for no other reason, then to shut idiots like you up.
 
2008-08-31 11:35:04 AM
Nagin just announced that anyone caught looting will go directly to Angola and put in general population.

Awesome
 
2008-08-31 11:35:43 AM
libbynomore2: funny, I asked what you people know about the CORRUPT levee boards in N.O. and all I got was bu bu but Bush......


If you can't speak to the billions of dollars provided them over the years that they used to line their own pockets instead of upgrading and maintaining the levees, then you really need to STFU


To be fair, you were also blathering about "Marshall" law. So how about a little STFU right back at you?
 
2008-08-31 11:36:01 AM
Nagin just said, "If you are caught looting, you will go directly to the big house, in general population."

Chocolate City ain't effin around this time!
 
2008-08-31 11:36:56 AM
I heard the same thing KidneyStone. Thats definitely good news that they are being tough on criminals staying behind to take advantage of the situation. I doubt its going to happen though, especially this being an election year.
 
2008-08-31 11:37:26 AM
vichuck: Nagin just said, "If you are caught looting, you will go directly to the big house, in general population."

Chocolate City ain't effin around this time!


Hahahahahahaha.. Mayor Nagin just violated the Bill of Rights, Juris Prudence, and a few other things.. This should be fun for the Orleans Parish prosecutors..
 
2008-08-31 11:38:26 AM
We are gonna need a thread like the wildfire thread last year...

Also, to New Oleaninans...

you have time to get out. LEAVE NOW.

For the love of FSM, get out now
 
2008-08-31 11:38:39 AM
I have to say, as much as I hate Nagin, he seems to have his shiat together this time. He's almost Guliani like.

granted, nothing has actually happened yet, but they seem to be demonstrating what SHOULD have happened last time had they had a decent plan in place.
 
2008-08-31 11:39:09 AM
KidneyStone: Nagin just announced that anyone caught looting will go directly to Angola and put in general population.

Awesome


Correct me if I'm wrong, but was new Orleans's finest looting last time also?
 
2008-08-31 11:39:49 AM
KidneyStone: Nagin just announced that anyone caught looting will go directly to Angola and put in general population.

Awesome


He can't bypass the justice system. He tried that when he confiscated guns and got spanked.
 
2008-08-31 11:40:33 AM
whyerhead:

Hahahahahahaha.. Mayor Nagin just violated the Bill of Rights, Juris Prudence, and a few other things.. This should be fun for the Orleans Parish prosecutors..


For a second I thought he was gonna say,"...and anyone caught looting will be shot on sight."
 
2008-08-31 11:40:59 AM
libbynomore2: mvfreeman 2008-08-31 11:26:17 AM
lexslamman The President didn't tell people to evacuate before Katrina - he was too busy playing guitar and cutting John McCain's birthday cake. Mayor Nagin told everyone to get out.

Furthermore, doesn't it make sense that the federal government has more power and resources to look after the citizens of those cities and states than the relatively small and less powerful state and local governments?

No what's outrageous is that Former Gov. Blanco REFUSED to allow Federal aid in the days and weeks after Katrina because she didn't want to give up the power and control. What's even more offensive to me is that people like you are so clueless that you didn't even know that FACT, or that if you did, you continue to lie about it.


Thank you so very much for reminding others of that point. Most of us down here during that time were watching that opera unfold and doing a very Tim Allen-ish "unnngh???"
 
2008-08-31 11:41:04 AM
ravenlore 2008-08-31 11:38:26 AM
We are gonna need a thread like the wildfire thread last year...

Also, to New Oleaninans...

you have time to get out. LEAVE NOW.

For the love of FSM, get out now



NO! It's not my responsibility to take care of myself, it's up to Government to take care of me.

\Obama '08
\\He'll end hurricanes forever and take care of me so I don't have to take care of myself, or that's what the idiots tell me anyway
 
2008-08-31 11:42:15 AM
bim1154:
Awesome

He can't bypass the justice system. He tried that when he confiscated guns and got spanked.


So what are they supposed to do when the entire justice system has left town?
 
2008-08-31 11:42:38 AM
Bobhein: Do insurance companies payout when their clients disregard the mandatory evacuation order?

The people I met after the storm in NOLA that didn't leave were renter 20 something rednecks from Mississippi who lived east of Esplanade just outside the quarter. The only reason they got evacuated was some dumbass lit the grill and made smoke during the day. They had done all their cooking at night as not to be seen. They didn't want to leave and their argument was simple, that they were from areas without running water, proper sewers, power or people. Which is what NOLA was like after the storm.

billyboyxoxox: Someone needs to stay behind and shoot the looters.

Other folks that I met after the storm were cops that stayed on their streets for them and their neighbors. And they told me about people they killed that never made the news.

Just what I know first hand.
 
2008-08-31 11:44:43 AM
Nagin is holding a news conference right now..says looters will be taken "directly to Angola, & put into the general population."
 
2008-08-31 11:45:06 AM
bim1154 He can't bypass the justice system. He tried that when he confiscated guns and got spanked.

The government can under Martial law:
"The martial law concept in the U.S. is closely tied with the right of habeas corpus, which is in essence the right to a hearing on lawful imprisonment, or more broadly, the supervision of law enforcement by the judiciary. The ability to suspend habeas corpus is often equated with martial law. Article 1, Section 9 of the U.S. Constitution states, "The privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion, the public Safety may require it.""

From wikipedia
 
2008-08-31 11:45:42 AM
vichuck: bim1154:
Awesome

He can't bypass the justice system. He tried that when he confiscated guns and got spanked.

So what are they supposed to do when the entire justice system has left town?


Pick up the pieces when it's all done, but Nagin can not arrest someone and send them to Angola general pop.
Personally I don't give two shiats what happens to N.O.
 
2008-08-31 11:45:43 AM
any of the actual fark hurricane trackers have any input into how bad this is going to be?
 
2008-08-31 11:46:41 AM
RoxtarRyan: KidneyStone: Nagin just announced that anyone caught looting will go directly to Angola and put in general population.

Awesome

Correct me if I'm wrong, but was new Orleans's finest looting last time also?


Somebody has to guard the new prisoners.
 
2008-08-31 11:46:41 AM
If the GOP really had balls, they would have held their convention in New Orleans.

I can dream, right?
 
2008-08-31 11:47:02 AM
me texan: bim1154 He can't bypass the justice system. He tried that when he confiscated guns and got spanked.

The government can under Martial law:
"The martial law concept in the U.S. is closely tied with the right of habeas corpus, which is in essence the right to a hearing on lawful imprisonment, or more broadly, the supervision of law enforcement by the judiciary. The ability to suspend habeas corpus is often equated with martial law. Article 1, Section 9 of the U.S. Constitution states, "The privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion, the public Safety may require it.""

From wikipedia


Nagin doesn't even come close to having that kind of power.
 
2008-08-31 11:51:09 AM
libbynomore2: ravenlore 2008-08-31 11:38:26 AM
We are gonna need a thread like the wildfire thread last year...

Also, to New Oleaninans...

you have time to get out. LEAVE NOW.

For the love of FSM, get out now


NO! It's not my responsibility to take care of myself, it's up to Government to take care of me.

\Obama '08
\\He'll end hurricanes forever and take care of me so I don't have to take care of myself, or that's what the idiots tell me anyway


fark you.

Go troll some other thread. This is a serious situation and grown-ups are talking.
 
2008-08-31 11:51:15 AM
CTurnerJoy 2008-08-31 11:35:43 AM
libbynomore2: funny, I asked what you people know about the CORRUPT levee boards in N.O. and all I got was bu bu but Bush......


If you can't speak to the billions of dollars provided them over the years that they used to line their own pockets instead of upgrading and maintaining the levees, then you really need to STFU

To be fair, you were also blathering about "Marshall" law. So how about a little STFU right back at you?



Actually NO. See, you people blamed Bush for all of those morons standing on their roof tops begging for help. Bush told them days before Katrina to GET OUT. As for those who didn't have a car or a way to get out, MAYOR NAGIN was the one who bailed out of town to save his own ass and allowed buses to sit and drown in parking lots.

You people blamed Bush so I'm NOT being sarcastic when I say that rather than wait for the storm to overtake people, and recognizing the incompetence of Nagin, you should be THRILLED at the notion of Bush sending resources in prior to Gustav to " save " people who are clearly incapabale of saving themselves and obviously can't count on their idiot mayor.

Your motivation is nothing more than Bush hatred but if you're honest you should support such a plan to move people out NOW, by force if necessary rather than wait and be forced to try to save them after the fact.

A bit of a heady concept for you I know......do the best you can to figure it out.

\Hate doesn't accept honesty, common sense, pragmatism or truth.
 
2008-08-31 11:51:43 AM
Farkers, its a scare tactic from Nagin... Dont get your panties in a wad and start throwing around penal (yuckyuckyuck) codes and quoting the constitution.

Trying to frighten some of the thugs and idiots who may have thoughts. Thats all.

Frankly I like it. Anyone who tried to loot my home would find the propane bomb booby traps most unpleasant (or at least that would be my threat on TV to frighten folks!)
 
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