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(Wall Street Journal)   On abortion, Democrats go from "safe, legal and rare" to "long as the baby ain't crowned yet it's all good, plus we're billing Dick Cheney for the procedure"   (online.wsj.com) divider line 354
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1288 clicks; posted to Politics » on 20 Aug 2008 at 12:16 PM (6 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2008-08-20 12:04:50 PM
I think you overshot the target there, subby.
 
2008-08-20 12:11:55 PM
Considering that Tim Kaine is on the shortlist for the friggin' VP nod, I'm not exactly sure what Single Issue McGee here is so upset about.
 
2008-08-20 12:17:24 PM
1. All persons have the right to be the sole proprietors of their bodies. This right exists even where a blood relative will die without your donation of bodily resources.

See: McFall V Shimp, In Re Angela Carder, n Re George, 630 S.W.2d 614 (Mo£t~App. 1982), In Re Pescinshi, 67 Wis.2d 4, 226 N.W.2d 180 (1975), In Re Harrel St. Mary's Hospital, n Re Unborn ~qI4 No.84-7-50006-0, Slip Op. at 5 (Wash. Super. C~ Benton/F~a~n Cos.Jur.Div. April 20, 1984). I can provide more sources if necessary.


2. Pregnant women have the same rights as any other human person. 14th Amendment.


3. You have the right to use lethal force when: your life is being attacked or threatened, when your body is being attacked or threatened with grievous harm and where lethal force is necessary to stop the infraction/prevent the actualization of the threat.

You can put the pieces together on your own, but for those who need help: A fetus has no right to a woman's body for any reason even if it is given all the rights of a born person, what a fetus does to a woman has a perpetual risk of death and the actualization of grievous harm (what happens to a woman's body during pregnancy would be torture if done by any other party), the only way to stop what a fetus does to a woman's body is to remove it (which makes lethal force necessary), therefore a woman therefore has the right an abortion at any time for any reason (at least until an alternative can be developed that will remove the fetus alive).

Perhaps abortion wouldn't be such a big issue if pro-lifers took the time to think issues through rather than let their whole entire movement be based on appeals to emotion (but it's a baaaaybee! It has a heartbeat!). But whatever.


/waits for the inevitable flames about how heartless and mean I am.
 
2008-08-20 12:21:15 PM
when all you pro lifers adopt all the kids in all the orphanages then we'll talk. until then stfu
 
2008-08-20 12:22:44 PM
As a Democrat, I'd like to start pushing for post-birth abortions, starting with the writer of this WSJ opinion piece.
 
2008-08-20 12:22:45 PM
Republicans: "human rights start at conception; end at birth"
 
2008-08-20 12:23:08 PM
What, you think Hydrocephalitic Junior is just going to leap out and yell "surprise and congratulations you've given birth to a sci-fi brainiac?"
 
2008-08-20 12:23:53 PM
Talon: 1. All persons have the right to be the sole proprietors of their bodies. This right exists even where a blood relative will die without your donation of bodily resources.

See: McFall V Shimp, In Re Angela Carder, n Re George, 630 S.W.2d 614 (Mo£t~App. 1982), In Re Pescinshi, 67 Wis.2d 4, 226 N.W.2d 180 (1975), In Re Harrel St. Mary's Hospital, n Re Unborn ~qI4 No.84-7-50006-0, Slip Op. at 5 (Wash. Super. C~ Benton/F~a~n Cos.Jur.Div. April 20, 1984). I can provide more sources if necessary.


2. Pregnant women have the same rights as any other human person. 14th Amendment.


3. You have the right to use lethal force when: your life is being attacked or threatened, when your body is being attacked or threatened with grievous harm and where lethal force is necessary to stop the infraction/prevent the actualization of the threat.

You can put the pieces together on your own, but for those who need help: A fetus has no right to a woman's body for any reason even if it is given all the rights of a born person, what a fetus does to a woman has a perpetual risk of death and the actualization of grievous harm (what happens to a woman's body during pregnancy would be torture if done by any other party), the only way to stop what a fetus does to a woman's body is to remove it (which makes lethal force necessary), therefore a woman therefore has the right an abortion at any time for any reason (at least until an alternative can be developed that will remove the fetus alive).

Perhaps abortion wouldn't be such a big issue if pro-lifers took the time to think issues through rather than let their whole entire movement be based on appeals to emotion (but it's a baaaaybee! It has a heartbeat!). But whatever.


/waits for the inevitable flames about how heartless and mean I am.


You're heartless and mean.
 
2008-08-20 12:23:57 PM
Talon: : A fetus has no right to a woman's body for any reason even if it is given all the rights of a born person

If they get aborted, they deserved it, the little parasites!
 
2008-08-20 12:25:02 PM
Hobodeluxe: when all you pro lifers adopt all the kids in all the orphanages then we'll talk. until then stfu

You have to give credit to Warner at the saddleback Forum for asking about an Adoption plan.

I also think it's ironic that conservatives try to limit adoptions by trying to restrict same sex couples.
 
2008-08-20 12:25:10 PM
Talon: 1. All persons have the right to be the sole proprietors of their bodies. This right exists even where a blood relative will die without your donation of bodily resources.

See: McFall V Shimp, In Re Angela Carder, n Re George, 630 S.W.2d 614 (Mo£t~App. 1982), In Re Pescinshi, 67 Wis.2d 4, 226 N.W.2d 180 (1975), In Re Harrel St. Mary's Hospital, n Re Unborn ~qI4 No.84-7-50006-0, Slip Op. at 5 (Wash. Super. C~ Benton/F~a~n Cos.Jur.Div. April 20, 1984). I can provide more sources if necessary.


2. Pregnant women have the same rights as any other human person. 14th Amendment.


3. You have the right to use lethal force when: your life is being attacked or threatened, when your body is being attacked or threatened with grievous harm and where lethal force is necessary to stop the infraction/prevent the actualization of the threat.

You can put the pieces together on your own, but for those who need help: A fetus has no right to a woman's body for any reason even if it is given all the rights of a born person, what a fetus does to a woman has a perpetual risk of death and the actualization of grievous harm (what happens to a woman's body during pregnancy would be torture if done by any other party), the only way to stop what a fetus does to a woman's body is to remove it (which makes lethal force necessary), therefore a woman therefore has the right an abortion at any time for any reason (at least until an alternative can be developed that will remove the fetus alive).

Perhaps abortion wouldn't be such a big issue if pro-lifers took the time to think issues through rather than let their whole entire movement be based on appeals to emotion (but it's a baaaaybee! It has a heartbeat!). But whatever.


/waits for the inevitable flames about how heartless and mean I am.


ummm. said preggo broad spread her legs to get that way. The pregnancy shouldn't be a big suprise. Its not like the baby climbed in there.
You get pregnant... Don't make a baby pay the price for your risk taking by killing him/her. Thats the ultimate in selfishness.
 
2008-08-20 12:25:31 PM
The Martian Manhandler: As a Democrat, I'd like to start pushing for post-birth abortions

I'm willing to support abortion into the hundredth trimester.
 
2008-08-20 12:26:02 PM
Well if they're not born we won't have to have a candle light vigil at the prison when they're being executed.
 
2008-08-20 12:26:10 PM
All2morrowsparTs: Republicans: "human rights start at conception; end at birth"

Life is sacred till you're born. Once you're out of the womb you're on your own.

Until you reach the age of enlistment. Then they suddenly "care" about you. Until you're service is through.

Then you better pray you didn't get injured.
 
2008-08-20 12:26:37 PM
What's harder than nailing a dead baby to a tree?

Nailing it to a dead puppy.
 
2008-08-20 12:27:17 PM
Talon: (what happens to a woman's body during pregnancy would be torture if done by any other party), the only way to stop what a fetus does to a woman's body is to remove it (which makes lethal force necessary),

Watch out ladies! The fetus knows where you live and it's gonna get you!
 
2008-08-20 12:27:37 PM
hiiamchris: ummm. said preggo broad spread her legs to get that way.

So how should we punish "preggo broads" who go ahead and get illegal abortions?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?
 
2008-08-20 12:28:20 PM
Talon:
You can put the pieces together on your own, but for those who need help: A fetus has no right to a woman's body for any reason even if it is given all the rights of a born person, what a fetus does to a woman has a perpetual risk of death and the actualization of grievous harm (what happens to a woman's body during pregnancy would be torture if done by any other party), the only way to stop what a fetus does to a woman's body is to remove it (which makes lethal force necessary), therefore a woman therefore has the right an abortion at any time for any reason (at least until an alternative can be developed that will remove the fetus alive).


By consenting to allowing the fertilization of their egg they are giving impromptu consent to the fetus to use their body. Through their own actions they are forcing another entity to use their body. Therefore if you give consent to something you forfeit your rights surrounding that action. Now rape is another can of worms but with consensual sex there is an implicit consent to an entity that needs to use your body.
 
2008-08-20 12:28:26 PM
Talon: 1. All persons have the right to be the sole proprietors of their bodies. This right exists even where a blood relative will die without your donation of bodily resources.

See: McFall V Shimp, In Re Angela Carder, n Re George, 630 S.W.2d 614 (Mo£t~App. 1982), In Re Pescinshi, 67 Wis.2d 4, 226 N.W.2d 180 (1975), In Re Harrel St. Mary's Hospital, n Re Unborn ~qI4 No.84-7-50006-0, Slip Op. at 5 (Wash. Super. C~ Benton/F~a~n Cos.Jur.Div. April 20, 1984). I can provide more sources if necessary.


2. Pregnant women have the same rights as any other human person. 14th Amendment.


3. You have the right to use lethal force when: your life is being attacked or threatened, when your body is being attacked or threatened with grievous harm and where lethal force is necessary to stop the infraction/prevent the actualization of the threat.

You can put the pieces together on your own, but for those who need help: A fetus has no right to a woman's body for any reason even if it is given all the rights of a born person, what a fetus does to a woman has a perpetual risk of death and the actualization of grievous harm (what happens to a woman's body during pregnancy would be torture if done by any other party), the only way to stop what a fetus does to a woman's body is to remove it (which makes lethal force necessary), therefore a woman therefore has the right an abortion at any time for any reason (at least until an alternative can be developed that will remove the fetus alive).

Perhaps abortion wouldn't be such a big issue if pro-lifers took the time to think issues through rather than let their whole entire movement be based on appeals to emotion (but it's a baaaaybee! It has a heartbeat!). But whatever.

/waits for the inevitable flames about how heartless and mean I am.




You are heartless and mean. You are a demon and have no soul.

/seriously
 
2008-08-20 12:29:35 PM
Saiga410: By consenting to allowing the fertilization of their egg they are giving impromptu consent to the fetus to use their body. Through their own actions they are forcing another entity to use their body. Therefore if you give consent to something you forfeit your rights surrounding that action. Now rape is another can of worms but with consensual sex there is an implicit consent to an entity that needs to use your body.

Are you really gonna argue this?
 
2008-08-20 12:29:55 PM
Just a disgruntled republican opinion piece for the WSJ.

Look, republicans, you have IN YOUR PLATFORM to ban abortions even if the mother could die attempting to give birth or even in rape situations.

YOU are the crazy people. YOU are the immoral ones. Not us.
 
2008-08-20 12:30:15 PM
internut scholar: Watch out ladies! The fetus knows where you live and it's gonna get you!

"The call is coming from inside the uterus!"
 
2008-08-20 12:30:26 PM
Saiga410: By consenting to allowing the fertilization of their egg they are giving impromptu consent to the fetus to use their body.

Condom breaks does not mean consent.

Saiga410: Through their own actions they are forcing another entity to use their body.

Just like the Flu. The flu is alive people! You can't kill it, that's murder! You consented to have it inside of you when you engaged in an action that might have made you contract the flu!

Saiga410: Now rape is another can of worms but with consensual sex there is an implicit consent to an entity that needs to use your body.

You're retarded. Kill yourself, please.
 
2008-08-20 12:31:07 PM
I think the most ravenous of the pro lifers are probably people who got "in the family way" and wanted to abort but didn't and they are now regretting and hating their lives and by God if they have to suffer so should everyone else.

these are also the same people who don't want their tax money going to social programs that would help poor families and single parents with raising kids.

why don't these mega churches devote their millions into programs for the poor and to help keep kids off the streets instead of wasting it on pursuing political power?
 
2008-08-20 12:31:26 PM
Saiga410: Now rape is another can of worms but with consensual sex there is an implicit consent to an entity that needs to use your body.

The armed forces?
 
2008-08-20 12:32:11 PM
Do conservatives really believe there are late-term abortions of convenience going on? F'n really? It's bullshiat.

I'm sure you can find an exception, but third-trimester abortions are the SERIOUS medical issue. Under many definitions, removing a fetus who is already dead and causing septic shock in the mother is defined as an abortion.

You know what *needs* to happen. With universal health care:

A) Pregnant women aren't scared to go to the doctor, so they go in much, much sooner in their possible pregnancy. Children are either born healthier as a result, or pregnancies are ended at the clump-o-cells stage with RU-486.

B) Some of the 'ohshiat' immediate financial burden of having a child is reduced, so more women are willing to go that route.

C) Birth control isn't unaffordable.
 
2008-08-20 12:32:26 PM
RQB1018: You are heartless and mean. You are a demon and have no soul.

Seriously. He's farking mean.

We should get swat teams to bust into peoples bedrooms, remove their right to privacy and force people to carry possible fertilized embryos to term... BY FORCE.

We must deploy troops to every womans uterus.
 
2008-08-20 12:32:50 PM
As a Liberal Democrat, I support forcing fetuses to suck my dick as I fark their pregnant mothers. Then I poke them in the soft spot in their head repeatedly until they die. This is what Roe v. Wade called for and damned if I don't do it at least twice daily with water.
 
2008-08-20 12:34:09 PM
www.dowjones.jp

It's the new FOX!
www.aca-demy.co.uk

After about the zillionth Obama hit-piece I just stopped clicking on those WSJ links. Forget about the publications history and years of dilligent journalism by writers with a shred of credibility. It's now a rag. Plain and simple.

Real independent economists and businessmen the world over probably wanted George Bush and his administration to catch fire but it takes a special elite kind of crook to spin god awful malpractice into winning leadership.
 
2008-08-20 12:34:23 PM
All2morrowsparTs: Republicans: "human rights start at conception; end at birth"

*golf clap*

Well played. Well played.
 
2008-08-20 12:34:23 PM
Talon: 1. All persons have the right to be the sole proprietors of their bodies.

The government tells us what we can and can't do with our bodies all the time. Why can't I put crack cocaine in my body? Why can't I end my own life?
 
2008-08-20 12:34:41 PM
Why don't we let the almighty free market decide?
 
2008-08-20 12:35:26 PM
Pro-Lifers: Those crazy-ass nutbars who think it's probably a bad idea to execute children prior to birth, even though junior might prove be an inconvenience to mom.
 
2008-08-20 12:35:36 PM
i37.tinypic.com
 
2008-08-20 12:36:07 PM
hiiamchris

ummm. said preggo broad spread her legs to get that way. The pregnancy shouldn't be a big suprise. Its not like the baby climbed in there.
You get pregnant... Don't make a baby pay the price for your risk taking by killing him/her. Thats the ultimate in selfishness.


if i step into detroit, with the possibility of getting killed, and someone murders me, you are saying i deserved it because i went to detroit, because being murdered there is a logical possibility. Right?
 
2008-08-20 12:36:21 PM
Shaggy_C: As a Liberal Democrat, I support forcing fetuses to suck my dick as I fark their pregnant mothers. Then I poke them in the soft spot in their head repeatedly until they die. This is what Roe v. Wade called for and damned if I don't do it at least twice daily with water.

Now we're talkin'!
 
2008-08-20 12:36:59 PM
absoluteparanoia: Saiga410: By consenting to allowing the fertilization of their egg they are giving impromptu consent to the fetus to use their body.

Condom breaks does not mean consent.


I did use the term probable. You take risks, get over it.

Saiga410: Through their own actions they are forcing another entity to use their body.

Just like the Flu. The flu is alive people! You can't kill it, that's murder! You consented to have it inside of you when you engaged in an action that might have made you contract the flu!


Did your direct actions create the flu. Also there is a grey area surrounding the reverence of the human life while all other things are secondary. In our society you just do not take a human life conciously

Saiga410: Now rape is another can of worms but with consensual sex there is an implicit consent to an entity that needs to use your body.

You're retarded. Kill yourself, please.


Sure thing boss.

Donald_McRonald:
Are you really gonna argue this?



Why not it is Wednesday
 
2008-08-20 12:38:01 PM
Talon: 1. All persons have the right to be the sole proprietors of their bodies. This right exists even where a blood relative will die without your donation of bodily resources.

See: McFall V Shimp, In Re Angela Carder, n Re George, 630 S.W.2d 614 (Mo£t~App. 1982), In Re Pescinshi, 67 Wis.2d 4, 226 N.W.2d 180 (1975), In Re Harrel St. Mary's Hospital, n Re Unborn ~qI4 No.84-7-50006-0, Slip Op. at 5 (Wash. Super. C~ Benton/F~a~n Cos.Jur.Div. April 20, 1984). I can provide more sources if necessary.


2. Pregnant women have the same rights as any other human person. 14th Amendment.


3. You have the right to use lethal force when: your life is being attacked or threatened, when your body is being attacked or threatened with grievous harm and where lethal force is necessary to stop the infraction/prevent the actualization of the threat.

You can put the pieces together on your own, but for those who need help: A fetus has no right to a woman's body for any reason even if it is given all the rights of a born person, what a fetus does to a woman has a perpetual risk of death and the actualization of grievous harm (what happens to a woman's body during pregnancy would be torture if done by any other party), the only way to stop what a fetus does to a woman's body is to remove it (which makes lethal force necessary), therefore a woman therefore has the right an abortion at any time for any reason (at least until an alternative can be developed that will remove the fetus alive).

Perhaps abortion wouldn't be such a big issue if pro-lifers took the time to think issues through rather than let their whole entire movement be based on appeals to emotion (but it's a baaaaybee! It has a heartbeat!). But whatever.


/waits for the inevitable flames about how heartless and mean I am.


I find you full of heart and extremely caring about others
 
2008-08-20 12:38:39 PM
Saiga410: Did your direct actions create the flu.

Yup, I met someone who had the flu. We had a business meeting.
 
2008-08-20 12:39:12 PM
Wait! Wait! I want to play!

Republicans have gone from "you'll give birth to your rapist's baby and you'll like it, even if it interferes with your completion of third grade" to "anyone who masturbates is guilty of murdering millions of human beings, just like Hitler".

I love the Hyperbole Game! Thanks Subby!
 
2008-08-20 12:39:35 PM
www.swordandspirit.com
 
2008-08-20 12:40:02 PM
This article is misleading. I saw Obama handing out coat hangers to some supporters and miniature American Flags for the rest.
 
2008-08-20 12:40:37 PM
RQB1018: Pro-Lifers: Those crazy-ass nutbars who think it's probably a bad idea to execute children prior to birth, even though junior might prove be an inconvenience to mom.

What do the crazy-ass nutbars suggest for a woman who is diagnosed with metastasized breast cancer in her first trimester?
 
2008-08-20 12:41:13 PM
IXI Jim IXI: "The call is coming from inside the uterus!"

Nice one!

Seriously though, if you we don't abort the fetuses then the fetuses have already won.
 
2008-08-20 12:41:39 PM
absoluteparanoia: We must deploy troops to every womans uterus.

Like El Salvador?

El Salvador, however, has not only a total ban on abortion but also an active law-enforcement apparatus - the police, investigators, medical spies, forensic vagina inspectors and a special division of the prosecutor's office responsible for Crimes Against Minors and Women, a unit charged with capturing, trying and incarcerating an unusual kind of criminal.
 
2008-08-20 12:41:48 PM
How many parts of the Constitution are some of you willing to violate to enforce your anti-abortion stance?
I'll get you started. There's no way to enforce it without violating the 4th amendment. Feel free to jump right in.
 
2008-08-20 12:42:00 PM
absoluteparanoia: Saiga410: Did your direct actions create the flu.

Yup, I met someone who had the flu. We had a business meeting.


You knew the risks when you subjected yourself to their flu virus. Don't kill the virus!
 
2008-08-20 12:42:06 PM
Damn Trap-Door Spider, that is one disgusting cartoon.
 
2008-08-20 12:42:11 PM
RQB1018: You are heartless and mean. You are a demon and have no soul./seriously

Oh get a farking life, dude. He/She/It is absolutely right!

And if you are a conservative or an evangelical, what the hell right is it of yours to tell someone else they have no soul? If I were to come over to your way of thinking, wouldn't I find that a bit presumptuous coming out of a mortal's mouth?

As with most things political, this is an issue more about slippery slope than anything else. People need to see past their ideas of "babies are cute! SAVE THE BABIES" and realize that this isn't about the babies. It is about where the influence of the government and the establishment end. The moment you tell a woman she can not abort a child that grows inside of her is the moment you empower the government, by the rules of precedent, to govern your body further. Before long there will be compulsory organ donation. After that, it could become compulsory childbirth - all able-bodied females are REQUIRED to carry a child, for the good of the nation.

That would be doubleplusbad.

If a woman is desperate enough to get an abortion, she is desperate enough to go into a back alley and sit on a coat hanger to do it. Making abortions illegal will not halt them, it will only make them more dangerous and more socially divisive.
 
2008-08-20 12:42:36 PM
If anyone can give me an honest and unbiased answer regarding as to when in it's development a baby gets human rights then I'd love to hear it.
 
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