Since when has any presidential administration had any effect on bringing back the unions? That was about the most hare-brained article I have seen this week, and I saw a couple in Pravda.

Is Real Clear Markets mixed up with Scientology?

Before some pro-union type comes on here. Thanks for the 40 hour work week. Also, thanks for the saftey regulations. You may have been too successful, now kick rocks!

xanadian: Get a candidate that will levy some kind of tariffs on jobs thrown overseas and watch that tide come rolling back in them go out of business and be replaced with foreign companie

heavy government regulation of the market is bad for everyone, consumers included

Bah who needs unions!? I trust CEOs, they know whats best for me, the worker!

Unions are dying


Did Netcraft confirm it? I won't believe it otherwise.

generaltimmy: Before some pro-union type comes on here. Thanks for the 40 hour work week. Also, thanks for the saftey regulations. You may have been too successful, now kick rocks!

I wish I worked 40 hours a week.

/48 hours taint so bad

Won't be long until "the weekend" is completely gone.

CastorPimp: generaltimmy: Before some pro-union type comes on here. Thanks for the 40 hour work week. Also, thanks for the saftey regulations. You may have been too successful, now kick rocks!

I wish I worked 40 hours a week.

/48 hours taint so bad

Heh, I wish I worked 48 hours a week

/55+ is suckhouse

But what worries management most of all is a bill co-sponsored by Sen. Obama that would give unions the right to organize workers without a secret election--the inaccurately named Employee Free Choice Act.

THIS.

The Employee Free Choice Act is a load of crap.

Today you have to have a free election to have a union. If this passes, all you have to have is a majority of people strong armed into signing a card. If you don't sign a card, everyone will know who didn't sign and that would..... suck.

Classic Simpsons historical summarization:

Burns' Grandfather: Aha - atoms! One, two, three, four... SIX of them! Take him away!
Waif: You can't treat the working man this way! One of these days we'll form a union, and get the fair and equitable treatment we deserve! Then we'll go too far, and become corrupt and shiftless, and the Japanese will eat us alive!
Burns' Grandfather: The Japanese? Those sandal-wearing goldfish tenders? Ha ha! Bosh! Flimflaw!
Mr. Burns: Oh, if only we'd listened to that young man, instead of walling him up in the abandoned coke oven.

Huh, wonder if it could have anything to do with various congresses and administrations making most union activities illegal?

We don't need unions nowadays. Workplaces are 100% safe and clean, bosses and CEOs have employee's best interests at heart. I mean come on. What function could a union serve today that a loving and caring CEO couldn't?

Unions were responsible for the 5 day work week, 8 hour work day and minimum age for workers. However, they have really not done anything positive for the economy as a whole in about 75 years. Am I glad they were around? Sure. Am I glad they are still around? Nope, not at all.

There is no more restrictions on unionization or union activity than there was in the past, but union membership is on the decline. Just like the political parties are being forced to realize that their constituents are not this monolithic block of cyborgs all thinking alike, unions have been forced to recognize that their membership are not all the anti-NAFTA, democrat voting block they would like them to be.

/worked summers in college as a janitor where the older, union janitors were making $28 an hour - in the 1980's.
//I did all of their 8 hours of work in 2.
///My wing was always nice and shiny.

Descartes: The Employee Free Choice Act is a load of crap.

exactly. it seems that the secret ballot is a sacred constitutional right for all americans when they vote for their leaders, but not when they vote to unionize.

and i love the name. like The Slavery is Freedom Act of 2008

Hydra: dillenger69: Unfortunately, in a global economy all trade unions accomplish is getting jobs outsourced overseas faster.

Not to mention forcing employers to hire more illegal immigrants.

If we want businesses to continue outsourcing and hiring illegal immigrants, we need to raise the minimum wage and allow unions to thrive.

Because that's all unions and minimum wage laws do: make it more expensive to hire domestic, legal labor. When the minimum wage goes too high and unions raise the price of labor far above equilibrium, businesses are going to say "Fark you" to the American worker and either hire a Mexican or send the work overseas to China.

Exactly! We should let corporate higher ups decide what we should make. That way they could pay us pennies on the dollar, BUT our jobs wouldn't be going over seas any more! Its just so easy to let the market work everything out!

KeatingFive: Huh, wonder if it could have anything to do with various congresses and administrations making most union activities illegal?

They should definitely bring back racketeering.
It just makes everything more interesting.

FarkedOver: ! We should let corporate higher ups decide what we should make

they do. it's call a wage. and you are free to accept it or not take the job.

FarkedOver: Exactly! We should let corporate higher ups decide what we should make. That way they could pay us pennies on the dollar

Except for the fact that you can find another job paying better, you are exactly right, exactly.

FarkedOver: We don't need unions nowadays. Workplaces are 100% safe and clean, bosses and CEOs have employee's best interests at heart. I mean come on. What function could a union serve today that a loving and caring CEO couldn't?

1) OSHA - If you have a problem with safety at a worksite, contact them.

2) Contracts - If you believe you are underpaid, work out a new wage agreement with your boss or get a skill that pays more

Munchausen's Proxy: FarkedOver: Exactly! We should let corporate higher ups decide what we should make. That way they could pay us pennies on the dollar

Except for the fact that you can find another job paying better, you are exactly right, exactly.

Jobs are very easy to come by, great paying jobs too. A dime a dozen I hear. While we're at it lets just generalize everyone and say that regardless of socioeconomic status, race, gender etc. everyone has the ability to pull themselves up by the bootstraps and live the american dream. Sure it can happen but more often than not it doesn't happen.

FarkedOver: Munchausen's Proxy: FarkedOver: Exactly! We should let corporate higher ups decide what we should make. That way they could pay us pennies on the dollar

Except for the fact that you can find another job paying better, you are exactly right, exactly.

Jobs are very easy to come by, great paying jobs too. A dime a dozen I hear. While we're at it lets just generalize everyone and say that regardless of socioeconomic status, race, gender etc. everyone has the ability to pull themselves up by the bootstraps and live the american dream. Sure it can happen but more often than not it doesn't happen.

We can then make the opposite assumption that there are actually people out there who have only one innate skill in life, that of flipping hamburgers. That there's no possible way they could learn to do anything else, not even dipping fries in grease.

choice and consequence: Classic Simpsons historical summarization:

Burns' Grandfather: Aha - atoms! One, two, three, four... SIX of them! Take him away!
Waif: You can't treat the working man this way! One of these days we'll form a union, and get the fair and equitable treatment we deserve! Then we'll go too far, and become corrupt and shiftless, and the Japanese will eat us alive!
Burns' Grandfather: The Japanese? Those sandal-wearing goldfish tenders? Ha ha! Bosh! Flimflaw!
Mr. Burns: Oh, if only we'd listened to that young man, instead of walling him up in the abandoned coke oven.



I love that.

FarkedOver: Jobs are very easy to come by, great paying jobs too. A dime a dozen I hear. While we're at it lets just generalize everyone and say that regardless of socioeconomic status, race, gender etc. everyone has the ability to pull themselves up by the bootstraps and live the american dream. Sure it can happen but more often than not it doesn't happen.

What the hell does this tripe have to do with unions? Unions do not create jobs or opportunity, infact the opposite is true. Unions do not aid people in "realizing the American Dream"

MyRandomName: FarkedOver: Munchausen's Proxy: FarkedOver: Exactly! We should let corporate higher ups decide what we should make. That way they could pay us pennies on the dollar

Except for the fact that you can find another job paying better, you are exactly right, exactly.

Jobs are very easy to come by, great paying jobs too. A dime a dozen I hear. While we're at it lets just generalize everyone and say that regardless of socioeconomic status, race, gender etc. everyone has the ability to pull themselves up by the bootstraps and live the american dream. Sure it can happen but more often than not it doesn't happen.

We can then make the opposite assumption that there are actually people out there who have only one innate skill in life, that of flipping hamburgers. That there's no possible way they could learn to do anything else, not even dipping fries in grease.

You can learn things sure, but that takes money. Flipping burgers isn't going to pay the tuition bills for a trade school or a community college. Not everyone has the money to spend.

FarkedOver: While we're at it lets just generalize everyone and say that regardless of socioeconomic status, race, gender etc. everyone has the ability to pull themselves up by the bootstraps and live the american dream

huh? it's an era of 5 percent unemployment--employers are desperate for good workers.

and state and federal governments have plenty of education and job training programs if you want to get ahead. most are free of charge. all you have to do is sign up

Munchausen's Proxy: FarkedOver: Jobs are very easy to come by, great paying jobs too. A dime a dozen I hear. While we're at it lets just generalize everyone and say that regardless of socioeconomic status, race, gender etc. everyone has the ability to pull themselves up by the bootstraps and live the american dream. Sure it can happen but more often than not it doesn't happen.

What the hell does this tripe have to do with unions? Unions do not create jobs or opportunity, infact the opposite is true. Unions do not aid people in "realizing the American Dream"

You're the one that said something about finding a better paying job, i was just responding to your quote. Sorry I will refrain from responding to you with my "tripe" i guess. My bad.

FarkedOver: We don't need unions nowadays. Workplaces are 100% safe and clean, bosses and CEOs have employee's best interests at heart. I mean come on. What function could a union serve today that a loving and caring CEO couldn't?

I started a job early this summer and I went through so much training and safety crap it was amazing. You know why? Is it because of a "Research scientist union"? No. OSHA fines the company out the ass if they fail to teach me how to use safety equipment, provide me safety equipment and reduce the risk to me as much as possible. So while workplaces aren't 100% safe, unions don't have shiat to do with it.

A(You don't need a union in a right to work state)
+
B(You need a union in a non-right to work state)
=
C(Unions don't work)

/logic is a little skewed, but then again so is the union's thoughts about entitlement
//Hates the UAW, had to work with them for years
///Want to see the grievances filed against me?

on a closing note, any organization that rewards seniority vs. competence deserves it's fate

FarkedOver:
You can learn things sure, but that takes money. Flipping burgers isn't going to pay the tuition bills for a trade school or a community college. Not everyone has the money to spend.

That is why the government has set up programs such as Pell grants and the such. On top of that, simply going through the classified and finding jobs that have training on them can help. There are quite a few metal shops just around here that train employees. Pay starts out low, but as you get trained you get paid more. And no Unions.

There are plenty of opportunities for those who work for it.

FarkedOver:

you're in PA. here's a link to state job training

Link (new window)

FarkedOver: You can learn things sure, but that takes money. Flipping burgers isn't going to pay the tuition bills for a trade school or a community college. Not everyone has the money to spend.

There are a metric assload of grants available for anyone of lesser means wanting to get an education or other training, most of which the union has very little association. If your goal is betterment, don't look to a union, they designed to look out for the benefit of the union as a whole, not the individual union members.

Munchausen's Proxy:

What the hell does this tripe soup have to do with unions?

MyRandomName: FarkedOver:
You can learn things sure, but that takes money. Flipping burgers isn't going to pay the tuition bills for a trade school or a community college. Not everyone has the money to spend.

That is why the government has set up programs such as Pell grants and the such. On top of that, simply going through the classified and finding jobs that have training on them can help. There are quite a few metal shops just around here that train employees. Pay starts out low, but as you get trained you get paid more. And no Unions.

There are plenty of opportunities for those who work for it.

I agree, but i know if my family wasn't there helping me financially while i was going to college, i wouldn't have a snowballs chance in hell of suceeding. For someone who is 40 and out of work with no college degree, I am willing to bet it is tough to get a job, or to go through learning a new trade trying to pay for rent and groceries etc while making very little money to start. My point is there are a lot of people struggling doing just what you suggest.

albo: FarkedOver:

you're in PA. here's a link to state job training

Link (new window)

I don't need that, I have a decent job and live an ok life. I just see lots of people struggling. Thanks for the offer though lol. Though i'm sure some of my friends could use that. Thank you for the link.

Munchausen's Proxy: FarkedOver: You can learn things sure, but that takes money. Flipping burgers isn't going to pay the tuition bills for a trade school or a community college. Not everyone has the money to spend.

There are a metric assload of grants available for anyone of lesser means wanting to get an education or other training, most of which the union has very little association. If your goal is betterment, don't look to a union, they designed to look out for the benefit of the union as a whole, not the individual union members.

And the corporation is designed to look out for the benefit of the corporation. They would drop you like a bad habit if it saved them $100 a year. So whats you're point about that? There are flaws in both.

your point, rather.

/hopefully in before the grammer nazis

dillenger69: Unfortunately, in a global economy all trade unions accomplish is getting jobs outsourced overseas faster.

I came here to say that.

Unions should focus on workplace safety and corporate transparency. And safety, covering everything from mandatory overtime, condition of facilities, training, tools, etc... is a huge deal IMHO.

Most companies seem to have a massive hard-on regarding costs are opposed to quality. As such, they are going to continue to allow the bean counters to push for moving facilities to locations with lower costs. Obviously, China is huge right now for manufacturing, India for textiles and Argentina for foodstuffs.

However, China is aware that their labor costs are slowly rising, which would eventually price themselves out of the market. As a result, they have been opening Chinese-owned factories in Vietnam, Cambodia and Thailand. They are also opening factories in Africa, often in countries that Western companies won't go.

So, next time your union demands a pay raise, just remember that at some point, it will be more profitable for your company to shift operations to: Mexico, Guatemala, Honduras, Brazil, Chile, Argentina, China, Mongolia, Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam, Bangladesh, India, Pakistan, Russia, Kenya, Liberia, Morocco, Algeria, Libya, Namibia or Egypt.

In many of those places, they earn less than a dollar a day. You're asking for a dollar an hour raise.

Think about it.

Dinjiin

Unions should focus on workplace safety and corporate transparency. And safety, covering everything from mandatory overtime, condition of facilities, training, tools, etc... is a huge deal IMHO.


Safety is a big deal: that's why OSHA exists.

Englebert Slaptyback: Dinjiin

Unions should focus on workplace safety and corporate transparency. And safety, covering everything from mandatory overtime, condition of facilities, training, tools, etc... is a huge deal IMHO.


Safety is a big deal: that's why OSHA exists.

OSHA is a governmental organization! WE NEED LESS GOVERNMENT!11!1!one11!!elevendy!1

Who needs unions any more when governments are passing 'living wage' laws? You may be an alcoholic, surly slackass, but they'll have to pay you like you're not the blight on humankind that you are. Thank you, Big Government.

Hot Lunch: Heh, I wish I worked 48 hours a week

/55+ is suckhouse

If you don't like it, why do you do it? If I were expected to work more than 40 hours a week without overtime, I'd jut find a new job.

Of course, I've got marketable skills and a lot of experience, which means I can basically write my own terms. YMMV.

Dinjiin:

In many of those places, they earn less than a dollar a day. You're asking for a dollar an hour raise.

Think about it.

I mean, I understand your reasoning, and I agree with it. However, the one thing that a union member in the US won't think about is how their raise is compared to the living wage of a a foreign worker.

Besides, its not like if those workers would accept a dollar a day if they lived in the USA. You know, unless they were slaves or something.

/in a service union... you can't outsource the government... yet