Well, someone did it.

Super Chronic: aiding rapid dispersal

The US is developing this?

flavor of the month: dont want to put the cart ahead of the horse, but i'd really like to see something along the lines of fingerprints, journals about how much he hated pat leahy and tom daschle, some leftover stamps. something.

There are two mental health care professionals that said he was basically a homicidal maniac. That carries a lot of weight with me.

Bestbank Tiger: timmy_the_tooth: I'm not conspiracy theorist but this stinks.

The FBI told a guy they knew to be mentally unstable that he was going to be charged with the Anthrax crime and, surprise, he kills himself.

Then they leak all kinds of circumstantial evidence about him and say they are closing the investigation?

This stinks of government cover-up. What do you think the odds are that the CIA mailed the anthrax in order to gin up support for the wars?

Eh...this case doesn't sit right with me either, but there was as much support as possible for war after 9/11.

Yes, for a war with Afghanistan. It took a concerted effort from guys like John McCain to link it to Iraq.

Here he is selling that shiat on Letterman. (new window)

Maverick!

This is why you should never seek psychiatric help. If the FBI ever needs to frame you for terrorism it makes it all that much easier. "He was crazy, so obviously he did it."

/I kid, I kid
//or do I?

Salacious Salad: flavor of the month: dont want to put the cart ahead of the horse, but i'd really like to see something along the lines of fingerprints, journals about how much he hated pat leahy and tom daschle, some leftover stamps. something.

There are two mental health care professionals that said he was basically a homicidal maniac. That carries a lot of weight with me.

And yet this guy was given clearance to work at a Biological weapons facility? Yeah, I call bull shiat.

The entire thing stinks. A tidbit gets leaked to the press and is discredited or put in doubt by someone else in hours. Earlier this week the FBI was claiming mission accomplished and were going to wrap it up with nothing more done. Now yesterday they say they are going to disclose some information after some media outlets hounded the bizarre circumstances in the case.

So far we have a highly discredited therapist with money, drug and criminal issues making some statements without anything to back them up. A mail box, but nothing clearly linking Ivins to being there during the time the letters were mailed.
A piece of lab equipment to make a powder that experts have said could not have been used to make the anthrax powder used. You also have some evidence of previous purposeful misinformation leaked to the public. The WH tried to get the FBI to pin this on Al Quaeda. A govt. informant gave bogus info to ABC trying to link it to Iraq. McCain went on TV claiming it was Iraq.

If this was one lone nut acting on his own I want some proof of it and his motivation. The whole thing just reeks.

After all of these years, one little slip of the tongue in the FARK forums...

/note to NSA: I'm joking!

J.Garcia'sRightMiddleFinger: bugenhagen: I was wondering about this. I know exactly where the mailbox in question is and don't remember a "sorority house" type building anywhere near it.

I'm calling the FBI, I found the real anthrax mailer. You know where the mailbox is, huh? I bet you know how to mail letters too. You sneaky bastard.

There's nothing like the Internet Detectives.

Way to solve those crimes, fellas.

Help yourselves to some doughnuts.

zelet: Salacious Salad: flavor of the month: dont want to put the cart ahead of the horse, but i'd really like to see something along the lines of fingerprints, journals about how much he hated pat leahy and tom daschle, some leftover stamps. something.

There are two mental health care professionals that said he was basically a homicidal maniac. That carries a lot of weight with me.

And yet this guy was given clearance to work at a Biological weapons facility? Yeah, I call bull shiat.

Maybe they had one of those old posters that said: "You don't have to be crazy to work here, but it helps."

zelet: Salacious Salad: flavor of the month: dont want to put the cart ahead of the horse, but i'd really like to see something along the lines of fingerprints, journals about how much he hated pat leahy and tom daschle, some leftover stamps. something.

There are two mental health care professionals that said he was basically a homicidal maniac. That carries a lot of weight with me.

And yet this guy was given clearance to work at a Biological weapons facility? Yeah, I call bull shiat.

Ditto, especially since said mental health care professionals (one basically an intern for a cut-rate social worker) are supposed to report those sorts of statements to the police immediately. Where's the arrest record?

The FBI took this right out of the Bush playbook.

Salacious Salad: flavor of the month: dont want to put the cart ahead of the horse, but i'd really like to see something along the lines of fingerprints, journals about how much he hated pat leahy and tom daschle, some leftover stamps. something.

There are two mental health care professionals that said he was basically a homicidal maniac. That carries a lot of weight with me.

One of them might not be such a reliable source.

Witness in Ivins Investigation Has Police Record (new window)

lunchinlewis: SacriliciousBeerSwiller: Hey, it worked with Oswald.

I'm glad we've hit the other crazy conspiracy theories in this thread. Oswald didn't act alone, 9/11 was an inside job, and of course, the Da Vinci Code is non-fiction.

Why would you believe anything they tell you? Have you followed this investigation?

zelet: Salacious Salad: flavor of the month: dont want to put the cart ahead of the horse, but i'd really like to see something along the lines of fingerprints, journals about how much he hated pat leahy and tom daschle, some leftover stamps. something.

There are two mental health care professionals that said he was basically a homicidal maniac. That carries a lot of weight with me.

And yet this guy was given clearance to work at a Biological weapons facility? Yeah, I call bull shiat.

Quite. Don't upset people with your rational input.

They government has told us something, who are you to deny it?

Just to be on the safe side, the military should invade Lebanon, Ohio as a hotbed of terrorism.

Lebanon, Ohio is where the movie "Milk Money" was filmed. What more evidence do we need? Invade!

This is all starting to look like a really bad thriller novel, the kind you buy in an airport for $8 to read on a cross-country flight and is interesting enough to keep you turning pages, while implausible enough for you to say "It's just a story."

I bet it comes out in the near future that one of the FBI agents running this investigation is a beautiful brunette who recently got divorced from a philandering stock broker and isn't quite ready to love again, until she meets a tall, handsome, but somewhat aloof, Medical Examiner who has "questions" about how Ivins died. Together, they have to find the answers while struggling to explore the feelings neither is ready to admit.

/get my agent on the phone, I've got an idea

lunchinlewis: zelet: And yet this guy was given clearance to work at a Biological weapons facility? Yeah, I call bull shiat.

Was he given clearance before he sought help for his mental problems, or after?

Clearance isn't a one time thing.

Wasn't the strain of Anthrax proven this week to be unable to come from that lab pointed out?

flavor of the month: So far the case against Ivins consists solely of information leaked anonymously to the press, and the fact that he committed suicide. TFA article says the FBI will state their case tommorrow. As of yet, it consists of:


- a mailbox near a sorority storage facility
- he took a lyophilizer home
- he subscribed to pornography under an assumed name
- he abused alcohol
- he did not report a possible contamination in december 2001
- he committed suicide when he was told he would be charged



i dont want to put the cart ahead of the horse, but i'd really like to see something along the lines of fingerprints, journals about how much he hated pat leahy and tom daschle, some leftover stamps. something.


You know who else made a convincing case?





// HOTLINKS, GET YER RED HOT HOTLINKS HERE

lunchinlewis: zelet: And yet this guy was given clearance to work at a Biological weapons facility? Yeah, I call bull shiat.

Was he given clearance before he sought help for his mental problems, or after?

Supposedly, this sorority obsession (if it is to be believed) goes back to his college days. A friend of mine worked for the government in a low security clearance and they went back and interviewed people he went to high school and college with before they hired him. And yet somehow this psychopath is allowed to play with toxins that could wipe out huge chunks of the eastern seaboard.

I think Dick Cheney made the anthrax himself while he was in the bunker. There is little to no doubt at all that Condi killed this guy and made it 'look' like a suicide.

3_Butt_Cheeks: 'look' like a suicide.

No 'look' needed. An autopsy was never performed.

Actually, I HOPE that this is the guy.....because if it's not, it opens up too many cans o'worms related to the whole atmosphere since 9/11.

Bin Laden's driver was convicted today. Wonder if he'll show up in captivity come late September (or right in the middle of the Democratic convention?)

/Not a tin-foil hat guy
/Just thinkin'.

3_Butt_Cheeks: I think Dick Cheney made the anthrax himself while he was in the bunker. There is little to no doubt at all that Condi killed this guy and made it 'look' like a suicide.

Cheney weaponized the anthrax by grinding it between his teeth and growling. grrrrrrrr nom nom nom grrrrrrrr nom nom nom...

Honestly, my gut reaction is that this whole case stinks. The cold trail, the sudden suspect and suicide, the 'therapist' who is a former smack addict and drunk driver x4 with a lot of dismissed cases in her record... lot's of strange things going on here.

But then again, isn't it a little too strange? I mean, you have to be a complete idiot to orchestrate such a weak case. This sounds like it is straight from a Dan Brown book. Either somebody is so desperate that they cannot even come up with a decent cover story, or there is some truth to this whole story.

AgentTofu: 3_Butt_Cheeks: 'look' like a suicide.

No 'look' needed. An autopsy was never performed.

Ahh...she is cunning indeed. Seeing how they masterminded 9/11, this was sure to be a piece of cake.

Swizzle Dick: I'm not a conspiracy type either, but I kinda felt the same way when Kenneth Lay croaked.

What sparked it for me was the way the press wrote it up. "The family announced..." My very first thought was "has anybody seen the body?"

Made me wish the coroners offices were all issued with Klingon Pain Sticks, just to be absolutely sure.

Pilikia: Ditto, especially since said mental health care professionals (one basically an intern for a cut-rate social worker) are supposed to report those sorts of statements to the police immediately. Where's the arrest record?

Why would there necessarily be an arrest record?

Dr.Zom: One of them might not be such a reliable source.

Witness in Ivins Investigation Has Police Record

So she is therefore unreliable in this matter? Um, that doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

zelet: And yet this guy was given clearance to work at a Biological weapons facility? Yeah, I call bull shiat.

This was from just a few months ago. Timelines. Look into it.

Pilikia: Cheney weaponized the anthrax by grinding it between his teeth and growling. grrrrrrrr nom nom nom grrrrrrrr nom nom nom...

You owe me a keyboard.

lunchinlewis: There was no sense that it had to be wrapped up by a certain time or anything swept under any rug.

It's not like there would be an election coming up and a new president who might learn embarassing things about the case.

an even better conspiracy is the forged letter linking Iraq and 9/11 ^{(^)}

Salacious Salad: Pilikia: Ditto, especially since said mental health care professionals (one basically an intern for a cut-rate social worker) are supposed to report those sorts of statements to the police immediately. Where's the arrest record?

Why would there necessarily be an arrest record?

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure police are required to follow up on threats to harm oneself or others even if they are made on the therapist's couch. But you're right, that doesn't necessarily mean an arrest record, especially if a) the health care "professional" didn't report it at the time, or b) the cops just had an informal chat with him. On the other hand, making a statement like, "I'm a sociopathic homicidal maniac" should have resulted in some sort of follow up and paper trail. Am I right?

Anyone else a little concerned that a guy who worked at an American biological research facility might have been BATSHIAT INSANE?

And the FBI knew this? And his therapist knew this?

And nobody said "Hey maybe we should, like, try to stop this guy from going to work today. Or tomorrow. Or sometime in the next, oh, 3 years?"

I mean, wtf

While I think this article makes a number of seemingly good points, I would like to defend mainstream media.

Glenn Greenwald repeatedly criticizes the media for blindly reporting what the FBI has said. Well, that's something that journalists do. If the president says something, that's news. Whether it's true or not. And most media outlets are not in the business of making news -- that is, they don't engage in investigative journalism. And what's so bad about that? If the president says something patently false, someone else of standing will come forward and say so, and then the media will report THAT.

Reporting SHOULD be balanced. If the FBI is saying one thing, and Ivins (before he died) is saying another, then the media should report both. If someone else of standing is saying something, the media should report that too. The media shouldn't simply report one side. That will happen at times, of course. If the president says something about Iran, reporters aren't going to immediately rush out and try to find someone who disagrees. The fact that Bush said what he said is news. And in fact, putting what he said in print and on TV is what is going to make others aware of what he said. I mean, there can't be an opposing view if the opposing view never hears about the original view.

If there are media outlets out there that simply report what the FBI says and, even now, does not consider any other viewpoints, yes, that sucks. However, those media outlets that sometimes just report what the FBI says but other times report on dissenting views need to be cut some slack. They're doing their job just fine, thank you.

lilbjorn: lunchinlewis: There was no sense that it had to be wrapped up by a certain time or anything swept under any rug.

It's not like there would be an election coming up and a new president who might learn embarassing things about the case.

Not to mention that the GOP is trying to go on this whole "we protect America from the bad guys" platform when the only good news in the last 8 years is that the war in Iraq is going a little bit better than it has. People are still questioning where Bin Ladin is and they are wondering what ever happened to the anthrax killer. Well, now we have Bin Ladin's driver, the anthrax killer ODd on Aspirin, and the real Bin Ladin will show up within a month or three.

3rdLostPassword: Super Chronic: aiding rapid dispersal

The US is developing this?

Well, supposedly not... I believe that was part of the thesis of this column. That is, somebody did that, but it's not something they do at the lab. I think. I'm no scientist.

There are conflicting reports on an autopsy being done.
Autopsy was performed.
http://www.wtop.com/?nid=25&sid=1452847
Or not?
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aGwtzOlYDSok&refer= home

Then there was a bunch of his letters to the editor republished by the local paper. Ya gotta read them. Odd stuff.

Letters Ivins wrote to the local paper
http://www.fredericknewspost.com/sections/news/display.htm?StoryID=78274

This is looking more and more like one of Stalin's show trials.

burndtdan: i try to avoid conspiracy theories like the plague, but it doesn't sit well with me that this guy winds up dead just when it's convenient to sweep this whole ordeal under the rug.

Two words.

Harrowdown Hill.

JohnBigBootay: the guy can't defend himself now - what's to keep them from cooking something up after the fact?

Nothing, I suppose. Maybe they have video of him carrying shiat out of the lab, who knows?

lawboy87: And NO, i'm not a "truther" who believes that 9/11 was some giant conspiracy or anything of the sort. Just someone who believes that there are entirely far too many people working with/for this administration who are fairly lax with the truth, especially when it involves something in their favor.

I'm curious. And this goes to you or anyone else here who regularly ridicules "the Truthers":

What is the difference between people who question the official government 9/11 story and the people who are now questioning the FBI's anthrax story? Why is it not OK to be skeptical of one but OK to be skeptical of the other?

I grew up when it was cool to question the government's official story. Nowadays, apparently, skepticism is for those nutty "Truthers" and cool people just swallow whatever the government tells them is the truth.

stilletto the wise: I grew up when it was cool to question the government's official story.

It is ALWAYS cool to question the government's official story.

Er, grasshopper.

blubberknife: This is looking more and more like one of Stalin's show trials.

The Russians are in on it too? I farking knew it.