i try to avoid conspiracy theories like the plague, but it doesn't sit well with me that this guy winds up dead just when it's convenient to sweep this whole ordeal under the rug.

burndtdan: i try to avoid conspiracy theories like the plague, but it doesn't sit well with me that this guy winds up dead just when it's convenient to sweep this whole ordeal under the rug.

I have a feeling that his suicide was completely unrelated to the FBI investigation. The FBI is just taking advantage of the opportunity by hastily throwing together a case that might pass the sniff test.

I was wondering about this. I know exactly where the mailbox in question is and don't remember a "sorority house" type building anywhere near it.

Ahhh, truthiness.

I'm not conspiracy theorist but this stinks.

The FBI told a guy they knew to be mentally unstable that he was going to be charged with the Anthrax crime and, surprise, he kills himself.

Then they leak all kinds of circumstantial evidence about him and say they are closing the investigation?

This stinks of government cover-up. What do you think the odds are that the CIA mailed the anthrax in order to gin up support for the wars?

So far the case against Ivins consists solely of information leaked anonymously to the press, and the fact that he committed suicide. TFA article says the FBI will state their case tommorrow. As of yet, it consists of:


- a mailbox near a sorority storage facility
- he took a lyophilizer home
- he subscribed to pornography under an assumed name
- he abused alcohol
- he did not report a possible contamination in december 2001
- he committed suicide when he was told he would be charged



i dont want to put the cart ahead of the horse, but i'd really like to see something along the lines of fingerprints, journals about how much he hated pat leahy and tom daschle, some leftover stamps. something.

flavor of the month: So far the case against Ivins consists solely of information leaked anonymously to the press, and the fact that he committed suicide. TFA article says the FBI will state their case tommorrow. As of yet, it consists of:


- a mailbox near a sorority storage facility
- he took a lyophilizer home
- he subscribed to pornography under an assumed name
- he abused alcohol
- he did not report a possible contamination in december 2001
- he committed suicide when he was told he would be charged



i dont want to put the cart ahead of the horse, but i'd really like to see something along the lines of fingerprints, journals about how much he hated pat leahy and tom daschle, some leftover stamps. something.

experts say that the anthrax that was sent could not have been produced with a lyophilizer nor could it have been produced by one man.

and ABC's Brian Ross needs to cough up sources that lied to him.
Once a source is proven to have used you for pushing lies they cannot expect you to cover for them unless you are a willing tool like Judith Miller.

This doesn't require a "conspiracy theory" to believe that it's FUBAR. The government may well believe that Ivins really did this (and he may have, too), and are so convinced of his guilt that they are pushing their really shiatty evidence against him regardless of its worth. If he was being constantly hounded by them and had some mental issues, it could drive him to suicide whether he was guilty or not.

The only thing I've seen so far that seems definitive is that they traced the anthrax back to that lab.

Let's hope they have a little more evidence when they make their big presentation.

Paedophile_Deluxe: This doesn't require a "conspiracy theory" to believe that it's FUBAR. The government may well believe that Ivins really did this (and he may have, too), and are so convinced of his guilt that they are pushing their really shiatty evidence against him regardless of its worth. If he was being constantly hounded by them and had some mental issues, it could drive him to suicide whether he was guilty or not.

The funny thing is, there was an episode of Law & Order: Criminal Intent about a guy being railroaded on bogus anthrax charges who committed suicide (turned out to be a homicide staged as a suicide, but whatever) as a result. This episode first aired on May 18, 2003.

Now that is FUBAR.

Hobodeluxe: Judith Miller

Judith Miller is both a Tool and a Hole

staplermofo: Anything that gets pictures of sorority girls in print is media gold.
Maybe they send in a reporter at night, to show them too scared to sleep, all in Michelle's bed, huddled together, wanting a big strong man, maybe a former war correspondent, to ease their fears, maybe do something to take their minds off of it.
Awww yeah.

bwao-chicka-bwao-chicka-bwao-bwao..

Ok, I started the music, you continue the scene narrative...

timmy_the_tooth: Hobodeluxe: Judith Miller

Judith Miller is both a Tool and a Hole

She also both Blows and Sucks.

Those bean counters coudn't find a donut shop.

I like this whole story, though. It's like reading the Da Vinci code and trying to take it serious.

It was 100 yards from a storage closet for a sorority he dated a sister from 27 years ago, at another school


?????A sister from 27 yards ago in a storage closet 100 years from another school sorority?????

burndtdan: i try to avoid conspiracy theories like the plague, but it doesn't sit well with me that this guy winds up dead just when it's convenient to sweep this whole ordeal under the rug.

This.

this thread needs more sorority panty raid pics!

burndtdan: i try to avoid conspiracy theories like the plague, but it doesn't sit well with me that this guy winds up dead just when it's convenient to sweep this whole ordeal under the rug.

I'm not a conspiracy type either, but I kinda felt the same way when Kenneth Lay croaked.

- a mailbox near a sorority storage facility
- he took a lyophilizer home
- he subscribed to pornography under an assumed name
- he abused alcohol


sounds like a typical farker to me

Wasn't the FBI nearly as seemingly "sure" of the guilt of Hatfield just a few short years ago?

I don't know if this guy did or not, but I'm glad that no one is just accepted the government's version of events without question. After all the freaking lies we have seen come out of this administration and its Justice Department (who controls the FBI) perhaps the fact the public no longer just accepts everything as the "truth" is a good thing.

And NO, i'm not a "truther" who believes that 9/11 was some giant conspiracy or anything of the sort. Just someone who believes that there are entirely far too many people working with/for this administration who are fairly lax with the truth, especially when it involves something in their favor.

bugenhagen: I was wondering about this. I know exactly where the mailbox in question is and don't remember a "sorority house" type building anywhere near it.

I'm calling the FBI, I found the real anthrax mailer. You know where the mailbox is, huh? I bet you know how to mail letters too. You sneaky bastard.

I Said: burndtdan: i try to avoid conspiracy theories like the plague, but it doesn't sit well with me that this guy winds up dead just when it's convenient to sweep this whole ordeal under the rug.

This.

Bingo.

timmy_the_tooth: I'm not conspiracy theorist but this stinks.

The FBI told a guy they knew to be mentally unstable that he was going to be charged with the Anthrax crime and, surprise, he kills himself.

Then they leak all kinds of circumstantial evidence about him and say they are closing the investigation?

This stinks of government cover-up. What do you think the odds are that the CIA mailed the anthrax in order to gin up support for the wars?

Eh...this case doesn't sit right with me either, but there was as much support as possible for war after 9/11.

So the AP changes it's story, and somehow that's discrdsiting for the FBI?

Hmm... I guess we can blame retractions on whoever they wrote about as well.

Very silly. But NOT journalism.

Step 1: Kill the patsy
Step 2: Slander him relentlessly
Step 3: PROFIT!!!

Hey, it worked with Oswald.

At least according to her mother's brother's uncle's daughter's friend who they met at that guy's party on the other night over at an acquaintance's house.

nashBridges: The only thing I've seen so far that seems definitive is that they traced the anthrax back to that lab.

Let's hope they have a little more evidence when they make their big presentation.

Even that has been cast into doubt. There was a column in yesterday's WSJ by Richard Spertzel (former head of the biological-weapons section of Unscom and a member of the Iraq Survey Group) basically explaining that it was impossible for a lone wolf using the equipment they had to give it the exact chemical signature. The size of the spores, apparently, can be attained in a number of ways, including "milling," which is what is done at Ivins's lab, but these spores were not milled. (The inference, I guess, is that non-milling methods are not used there.) Also, the spores were apparently coated with a "polyglass which tightly bound hydrophilic silica to each particle" which enabled them to sink deep into people's lungs, and given a small electric charge that made them repel each other, aiding rapid dispersal.

The headline -- conclusively stating that "Bruce Ivins Wasn't the Anthrax Culprit" -- seemed overstated relative to what the column produced. The column seems to imply that there might have been ways to do some of the things that were done, though it would have been complicated and required lots of people. It's not a model of clarity in that regard. But it definitely provided evidence to cast doubts, at least on the extent of Ivins's involvement, and perhaps on whether he was involved at all.

I have so much confidence in our government now.

Who the fark is in charge of green-lighting headlines at fark?

I had to read the headline 3 times to understand it.

nashBridges: Let's hope they have a little more evidence when they make their big presentation.

the guy can't defend himself now - what's to keep them from cooking something up after the fact?

Suicide with help, particularly because they didn't autopsy the guy. The whole thing reeks to high heaven, and I'm surprised the FBI doesn't realize how bogus it all looks.

flavor of the month: So far the case against Ivins consists solely of information leaked anonymously to the press, and the fact that he committed suicide. TFA article says the FBI will state their case tommorrow. As of yet, it consists of:


- a mailbox near a sorority storage facility
- he took a lyophilizer home
- he subscribed to pornography under an assumed name
- he abused alcohol
- he did not report a possible contamination in december 2001
- he committed suicide when he was told he would be charged



i dont want to put the cart ahead of the horse, but i'd really like to see something along the lines of fingerprints, journals about how much he hated pat leahy and tom daschle, some leftover stamps. something.

"Subscribe" to pornography?? Might as well subscribe to air.

Same leak says Iran already has nukes.

Code_Archeologist: I have a feeling that his suicide was completely unrelated to the FBI investigation. The FBI is just taking advantage of the opportunity by hastily throwing together a case that might pass the sniff test.

Really? Have you ever had to go head to head with the government?
You don't think it's even remotely possible that after the years of suspicion and having the FBI looking over his shoulder, the prospect of actually being charged and having to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars he happens to not have in the bank on a legal defense might have made suicide look like a better alternative?

Even if he did win in court, he'd still be a broken, ruined man living out of a cardboard box.

People trying to make up a motive, or just understand. Loose lips to the press from incompetent government officials. Not a conspiracy.

I have anthrax in my arse crack.