Do you have adblock enabled?
 
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Boston Globe)   "U.S. polls indicate that most of the amateur climate change skeptics are Republicans." Sure -- people who think Ted Stevens is innocent will belive anything   (boston.com ) divider line
    More: Obvious  
•       •       •

3542 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Aug 2008 at 11:28 AM (7 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



688 Comments     (+0 »)
 


Oldest | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | » | Newest | Show all

 
2008-08-04 02:16:25 PM  
PascalsGhost

You really are bad at this. The link I provided discusses the immunity of mosquitos....they still avoid ddt even when immune to it. Thus limiting human and mosquito contact.

Hey as long as we don't kill them with bombs its ok right? A few million people die of malaria in the brown regions of the earth and thats ok....
 
2008-08-04 02:17:10 PM  

redcup27: re-elect_jimmy_carter: redcup27: To everyone claiming all skeptics are hacks who don't have a climatology background/education etc. and dismissing them as morans please consider the fact that the writer of this article holds degrees in aeronautics/astronaumics (fluid dynamics) and theoretical plasma physics.

If we're dismissing everyone without a climatology degree then this "scientist" should also be thrown out.

/As a bonus he spent many years in Berkeley

you would have gotten more points if you would have said bezerkeley.

Points? So pointing out what degrees this "scientist" has who wrote an article claiming that scientists who are skeptical of GW are uneducated on the subject is trolling?

THAT is exactly why everyone should be skeptical of GW. Everyone of you GW nutjobs will hold up anything published "proving" GW as 100% fact and dismiss all counter arguments as being delivered by uneducated morans. Why do all the skeptics need to have PHD's in Climatology to be "experts" on the subject but anyone with a high school diploma can be an "expert" if they express the opinion that GW exists and is caused by man?


wow.

that right there is projection if there ever was such a thing.
 
2008-08-04 02:17:53 PM  

pendy575: eraser8

Uganda disagrees with you:

European Union officials and nongovernmental organizations, who claim DDT spraying inside Ugandan huts may result in trace levels of the chemical being found on exported Ugandan crops, threatened to restrict the import of Ugandan crops in retaliation for the nation's use of DDT.

Link (new window)


Why is this a problem? The EU doesn't have the right to not import crops if it is afraid of DDT contamination?
 
2008-08-04 02:18:15 PM  
Scientists are always right....

We [have] emphasized fears about speculative risks from trace amounts of insecticides and ignored the real, immediate, life-or-death risks that those insecticides could prevent," said Innis. "The result has been another holocaust of African mothers, fathers, and children every few years, a death toll since the 1972 DDT ban that surpasses World War II's--over 50 million people. It is a travesty worse than colonialism ever was, a human rights violation of monstrous proportions."

"The result of the DDT ban has been an unspeakable death toll," observed film producer and preventive medicine doctor D. Rutledge Taylor in the March 20 issue of American Daily. "It is about the greatest human death toll in the known history of man, far greater than the holocaust and all the wars combined. It is time that we as generations of humans wake up and do what is right for humanity."
 
2008-08-04 02:19:35 PM  

Zafler: fizzix


Yeah I remember that, but it was just a hunch. I don't have idl at home and open office was unable to give me the regression line equation.

I'd upload the plots I generated if I could figure out how. I'm not a computer expert by any means, and can only figure out how to link to images on here...
 
2008-08-04 02:20:23 PM  

pendy575: eraser8

Uganda disagrees with you:

European Union officials and nongovernmental organizations, who claim DDT spraying inside Ugandan huts may result in trace levels of the chemical being found on exported Ugandan crops, threatened to restrict the import of Ugandan crops in retaliation for the nation's use of DDT.

Link (new window)


so everyone should accept crops no matter what sort of crap they spray with?

i think you should drink a nice tall glass of......

content.answers.com
totally healthy and non toxic.....yum yum.
 
2008-08-04 02:20:30 PM  
PascalsGhost

You really don't see it?

Junkl science is behind the DDT ban...and the very real consquence of following that junk science is 50 million people dead from malaria since the 1972 ban.

But hey at least they let it be used for the treatment of malaria...oops...not really
 
2008-08-04 02:21:23 PM  
pendy575 writes: Uganda disagrees with you

That wasn't Uganda or a Ugandan official that you quoted. That was Paul Driessen, writing from the right wingnut pulpit of The Heartland Institute. The man, like you, has an obvious agenda and is quite willing to stretch the truth, like you, to promote it.

The fact remains that the EU never made any categorical threat against importing Ugandan products (agricultural or otherwise) for its of DDT to curtail malaria. All the EU did was prudently suggest that Uganda be careful so that DDT does not contaminate Ugandan export products or pollute Uganda's neighbors.
 
2008-08-04 02:21:42 PM  

re-elect_jimmy_carter: wow.

that right there is projection if there ever was such a thing.


I don't know, I think it's a fair argument. For instance, if a GW study finds that it isn't as bad as everyone claims, it's either: a) done by someone outside of the profession, or b) done by someone paid by the oil companies. This pattern is discernable from a distance. So pointing out that the individual writing this article doesn't have a degree in the "right" field is fair game in my book. That horse left the barn some time ago, and it was the GW freaks who let it out in the first place.
 
2008-08-04 02:21:55 PM  
re-elect_jimmy_carter

Tell it to the 2 million people that will die of malaria this year in Africa. Then go protest the war in Iraq to make yourself feel better about protecting brown people's human rights.
 
2008-08-04 02:22:09 PM  

pendy575: Scientists are always right....

We [have] emphasized fears about speculative risks from trace amounts of insecticides and ignored the real, immediate, life-or-death risks that those insecticides could prevent," said Innis. "The result has been another holocaust of African mothers, fathers, and children every few years, a death toll since the 1972 DDT ban that surpasses World War II's--over 50 million people. It is a travesty worse than colonialism ever was, a human rights violation of monstrous proportions."

"The result of the DDT ban has been an unspeakable death toll," observed film producer and preventive medicine doctor D. Rutledge Taylor in the March 20 issue of American Daily. "It is about the greatest human death toll in the known history of man, far greater than the holocaust and all the wars combined. It is time that we as generations of humans wake up and do what is right for humanity."


Some scientists are pretty shady:

D Rutledge Taylor DO/MDcrt, originally from Mississippi, received his BA in Biology and Chemistry at Delta State University in 1988 and his medical degree at the West Virginia School of Osteopathic Medicine in 1996. He completed his residency in traditional General Medicine at the University of Alabama in 1999. He has built a LA based preventative and anti-aging medical practice (a unique blend of traditional and alternative therapies aimed at thwarting cell death), pioneered a cellular feed anti-aging nutrition company, and is branding a line of skin care products.

LOL
 
2008-08-04 02:22:18 PM  
Anyone notice how so many of the same people/institutions who deny anthropogenic global warming are the same people who take issue with molecular biology?

The difference between people who deny climate change and those who don't is this...

- No amount of science or empirical data will persuade deniers they are wrong
- If science discovered tomorrow climate change isn't real, the supporters would change their opinion right along with it

One group are a bunch of mindless political/religious ideologues and one group is good at science.
 
2008-08-04 02:22:20 PM  

re-elect_jimmy_carter:
i think you should drink a nice tall glass of......


totally healthy and non toxic.....yum yum.



Well if it was good enough for the Puritans to drink then I'm sold.
 
2008-08-04 02:24:40 PM  
Is this better? We won't ban the food but we won't send it to Europe either....please

"We have to kill malaria using DDT, and the matter has been settled that DDT is not harmful to humans and if used for indoor-insecticide spraying," Uganda Health Minister Jim Muhwezi told the East African on April 4. "It's the most effective and cheapest way to fight malaria."

European Union officials and nongovernmental organizations, who claim DDT spraying inside Ugandan huts may result in trace levels of the chemical being found on exported Ugandan crops, threatened to restrict the import of Ugandan crops in retaliation for the nation's use of DDT.

"If the strict controls that should be put in place when DDT is used are not fully adhered to, and there is a risk of contamination of the food chain, [it] would not automatically lead to a ban of food products, but it will mean that that particular consignment cannot be sent to Europe," said Tom Vens, head of the Economic, Trade, and Social sectors desk at the European Union delegation to Uganda, according to the April 4 East African report.
 
2008-08-04 02:25:42 PM  

eraser8: pendy575 writes: Uganda disagrees with you

That wasn't Uganda or a Ugandan official that you quoted. That was Paul Driessen, writing from the right wingnut pulpit of The Heartland Institute. The man, like you, has an obvious agenda and is quite willing to stretch the truth, like you, to promote it.

The fact remains that the EU never made any categorical threat against importing Ugandan products (agricultural or otherwise) for its of DDT to curtail malaria. All the EU did was prudently suggest that Uganda be careful so that DDT does not contaminate Ugandan export products or pollute Uganda's neighbors.


the EU has no right to suggest anything.


they MUST buy every crop in the world no matter what's in it.

european vegetables suck and are covered with pesticides, so if ugandan crops didnt make the grade, they must have been covered with DDT.
 
2008-08-04 02:26:04 PM  

pendy575: PascalsGhost

You really are bad at this. The link I provided discusses the immunity of mosquitos....they still avoid ddt even when immune to it. Thus limiting human and mosquito contact.

Hey as long as we don't kill them with bombs its ok right? A few million people die of malaria in the brown regions of the earth and thats ok....


People are trying to limit the use of DDT, so that the DDT remains effectiove and they cans till use it. You aren't understanding this at all.

pendy575: re-elect_jimmy_carter

Tell it to the 2 million people that will die of malaria this year in Africa. Then go protest the war in Iraq to make yourself feel better about protecting brown people's human rights.


THEY USE DDT FOR VECTOR CONTROL YOU IDIOT. IT IS ONLY BARRED FOR AGRICULTURAL USE.

WTF is wrong with people?
 
2008-08-04 02:27:05 PM  
PascalsGhost

You are ok with killing kids in Africa then. I get it. As long as you can protect your little sceince is always right fantasy....
 
2008-08-04 02:27:24 PM  

PascalsGhost: pendy575: Scientists are always right....

We [have] emphasized fears about speculative risks from trace amounts of insecticides and ignored the real, immediate, life-or-death risks that those insecticides could prevent," said Innis. "The result has been another holocaust of African mothers, fathers, and children every few years, a death toll since the 1972 DDT ban that surpasses World War II's--over 50 million people. It is a travesty worse than colonialism ever was, a human rights violation of monstrous proportions."

"The result of the DDT ban has been an unspeakable death toll," observed film producer and preventive medicine doctor D. Rutledge Taylor in the March 20 issue of American Daily. "It is about the greatest human death toll in the known history of man, far greater than the holocaust and all the wars combined. It is time that we as generations of humans wake up and do what is right for humanity."

Some scientists are pretty shady:

D Rutledge Taylor DO/MDcrt, originally from Mississippi, received his BA in Biology and Chemistry at Delta State University in 1988 and his medical degree at the West Virginia School of Osteopathic Medicine in 1996. He completed his residency in traditional General Medicine at the University of Alabama in 1999. He has built a LA based preventative and anti-aging medical practice (a unique blend of traditional and alternative therapies aimed at thwarting cell death), pioneered a cellular feed anti-aging nutrition company, and is branding a line of skin care products.

LOL


an osteopath from mississippi?

i would totally listen to what he had to say.
 
2008-08-04 02:27:45 PM  
re-elect_jimmy_carter :
What is your point? Dixy Lee makes stuff up, plain and simple.

and she encouraged the folks down at hanford to toss mixed high level waste ("transuranic") in cardboard boxes into shallow ditches without regulation or even proper site markings
.

Was their any localized ill effects from this policy?
 
2008-08-04 02:28:42 PM  
PascalsGhost

And they lose their trading rights when they do. And the ban? Based on nothing

Keep killing kids though. Make sure to wear sandals and tye die...wouldn't want anyone confusing you with a republican
 
2008-08-04 02:30:13 PM  

pendy575: PascalsGhost

You are ok with killing kids in Africa then. I get it. As long as you can protect your little sceince is always right fantasy....


Yep. That's what environmentalism is all about: Killing kids in Africa. All that stuff about making our planet healthier and our quality of lives better was just a front. It's always been about killing kids in Africa.

You've encapsulated our goal perfectly. I guess we have nothing more to add.

You win. Well done.
 
2008-08-04 02:31:03 PM  

glassa: So is that what the climate change enthusiasts want us to emulate? Do we really want to be like them?


Uh, no. I think you are trying to mix apples and chickens.

I want to be like me and I want you to be like you.
I just don't want to pay for others crimes nor would you.
 
2008-08-04 02:31:12 PM  

Digital Communist: The difference between people who deny climate change and those who don't is this...

- No amount of science or empirical data will persuade deniers they are wrong
- If science discovered tomorrow climate change isn't real, the supporters would change their opinion right along with it

One group are a bunch of mindless political/religious ideologues and one group is good at science.


Is my sarcasm detector broken or something? "Science" does not change. It requires evidence and proof, not a extra-governmental body sitting down and coming up with a consensus. And you think we should restructure our entire economy on something that you admit "might change down the road?" Seriously. WTF?
 
2008-08-04 02:31:17 PM  
re-elect_jimmy_carter :

an osteopath from mississippi?

i would totally listen to what he had to say.


You see people if they can't break the message they attack the messenger

I wonder why scientists are scared to stand up to the global warming theory?
 
2008-08-04 02:31:22 PM  

pendy575: Is this better? We won't ban the food but we won't send it to Europe either....please

"We have to kill malaria using DDT, and the matter has been settled that DDT is not harmful to humans and if used for indoor-insecticide spraying," Uganda Health Minister Jim Muhwezi told the East African on April 4. "It's the most effective and cheapest way to fight malaria."

European Union officials and nongovernmental organizations, who claim DDT spraying inside Ugandan huts may result in trace levels of the chemical being found on exported Ugandan crops, threatened to restrict the import of Ugandan crops in retaliation for the nation's use of DDT.

"If the strict controls that should be put in place when DDT is used are not fully adhered to, and there is a risk of contamination of the food chain, [it] would not automatically lead to a ban of food products, but it will mean that that particular consignment cannot be sent to Europe," said Tom Vens, head of the Economic, Trade, and Social sectors desk at the European Union delegation to Uganda, according to the April 4 East African report.


The EU must buy crops from any country selling them regardless? What kind of communist paradise do you live in?

pendy575: PascalsGhost

You are ok with killing kids in Africa then. I get it. As long as you can protect your little sceince is always right fantasy....


Wow.

You are a complete dumbass. Seriously. Go shot yourslef.

frkking stupid science ruining the world and shiat.
 
2008-08-04 02:31:30 PM  
The world has spent $50 billion on global warming since 1990, and we have not found any actual evidence that carbon emissions cause global warming. Evidence consists of observations made by someone at some time that supports the idea that carbon emissions cause global warming. Computer models and theoretical calculations are not evidence, they are just theory. (Dr David Evans)
 
2008-08-04 02:31:42 PM  

alaric89: re-elect_jimmy_carter :
What is your point? Dixy Lee makes stuff up, plain and simple.

and she encouraged the folks down at hanford to toss mixed high level waste ("transuranic") in cardboard boxes into shallow ditches without regulation or even proper site markings.

Was their any localized ill effects from this policy?


aside from hanford being the most polluted nuclear waste site in the western hemisphere right on the 2nd largest river in the continental USA?


none at all.

former DOE secretaries make crappy state governors.
 
2008-08-04 02:31:58 PM  
pendy575 writes: We won't ban the food but we won't send it to Europe either

You'd have a point if that was even approaching the EU's policy.

Uganda can send its food to Europe...so long as it's not contaminated by DDT. The EU's suggestion that Uganda set up a monitoring regime to "ensure that any contamination of foodstuffs is detected and corrective measures taken" gives lie to your claim that anti-malarial DDT use automatically means a rejection of Ugandan imports.
 
2008-08-04 02:32:03 PM  
I consider myself very liberal and I don't buy the anthropogenic climate change model. No one can deny that the Earth has been warming, but the correlation between that warming and CO2 is very weak, and correlation does not equal causation.
 
2008-08-04 02:32:41 PM  
pendy575, how much DDT is in your diet?

Do you at least understand why EU countries, with elected officials, might be averse to allowing the importation of DDT-laced foodstuffs?
 
2008-08-04 02:33:50 PM  

pendy575: re-elect_jimmy_carter :

an osteopath from mississippi?

i would totally listen to what he had to say.

You see people if they can't break the message they attack the messenger

I wonder why scientists are scared to stand up to the global warming theory?


is he only a messenger?

maybe he is just following explicit directions from god?
 
2008-08-04 02:34:08 PM  
Dr David Evans received his Ph.D. in electrical engineering from Stanford University in 1989. A consultant to the Australian Greenhouse Office from 1999 to 2005, he is currently president of ScienceSpeak, a computer modeling and programming company based in Perth, Australia.
 
2008-08-04 02:34:46 PM  
 
2008-08-04 02:35:20 PM  

PascalsGhost: pendy575: Scientists are always right....

We [have] emphasized fears about speculative risks from trace amounts of insecticides and ignored the real, immediate, life-or-death risks that those insecticides could prevent," said Innis. "The result has been another holocaust of African mothers, fathers, and children every few years, a death toll since the 1972 DDT ban that surpasses World War II's--over 50 million people. It is a travesty worse than colonialism ever was, a human rights violation of monstrous proportions."

"The result of the DDT ban has been an unspeakable death toll," observed film producer and preventive medicine doctor D. Rutledge Taylor in the March 20 issue of American Daily. "It is about the greatest human death toll in the known history of man, far greater than the holocaust and all the wars combined. It is time that we as generations of humans wake up and do what is right for humanity."

Some scientists are pretty shady:

D Rutledge Taylor DO/MDcrt, originally from Mississippi, received his BA in Biology and Chemistry at Delta State University in 1988 and his medical degree at the West Virginia School of Osteopathic Medicine in 1996. He completed his residency in traditional General Medicine at the University of Alabama in 1999. He has built a LA based preventative and anti-aging medical practice (a unique blend of traditional and alternative therapies aimed at thwarting cell death), pioneered a cellular feed anti-aging nutrition company, and is branding a line of skin care products.

LOL


That is pretty funny.

pendy575: Scientists are always right....

No real scientist has ever said that. It goes against the most basic premise of science being subject to scrutiny and self-correction.
 
2008-08-04 02:35:33 PM  

pendy575: PascalsGhost

And they lose their trading rights when they do.


You have os idea what you are talking about. Noc ountry has any "right" for another country to buy their stuff. Read a book.

And the ban? Based on nothing

Here (new window) is the wiki link to a bunch of studies.

Keep killing kids though. Make sure to wear sandals and tye die...wouldn't want anyone confusing you with a republican

The whole time I am talking to you, this is what I keep thinking :

www.cineol.net

"Don't worry scro, lots of tards are living really kick ass lives..."
 
2008-08-04 02:37:05 PM  

NobleHam: I consider myself very liberal and I don't buy the anthropogenic climate change model. No one can deny that the Earth has been warming, but the correlation between that warming and CO2 is very weak, and correlation does not equal causation.


its the correlation between methane (40x stronger than CO2) and warming that you should worry about.

something like a 10 trillion tons of it from decomposed veg matter trapped under the permafrost, waiting for a little bit o warm from an outside vector.....like us.

then theres the humongous amount of methane ice on the seafloor.

we're f|_|cked.
 
2008-08-04 02:38:20 PM  

confusionist: environmental" "colonialism" "africa"


Interefered with?

So there should be no oversite or concern with envioromental factors when building, correct?

Is that what you are suggesting.
 
2008-08-04 02:38:22 PM  

PascalsGhost:
DDT is fading in popularity as a vector agent, due to the fact that MOSQUITOES DEVELOP AN IMMUNITY and it is getting worse. Theya re trying to use DDT in the owrst cases and other things when they can so it doesn't become usless. Kinda like antui-biotics.

You must have missed that part.



Here's an alternate approach to DDT (new window).
 
2008-08-04 02:40:42 PM  

PascalsGhost: pendy575: PascalsGhost

And they lose their trading rights when they do.

You have os idea what you are talking about. Noc ountry has any "right" for another country to buy their stuff. Read a book.

And the ban? Based on nothing

Here (new window) is the wiki link to a bunch of studies.

Keep killing kids though. Make sure to wear sandals and tye die...wouldn't want anyone confusing you with a republican

The whole time I am talking to you, this is what I keep thinking :

"Don't worry scro, lots of tards are living really kick ass lives..."


you gotta preview your pics before posting.
 
2008-08-04 02:43:02 PM  

re-elect_jimmy_carter: NobleHam: I consider myself very liberal and I don't buy the anthropogenic climate change model. No one can deny that the Earth has been warming, but the correlation between that warming and CO2 is very weak, and correlation does not equal causation.

its the correlation between methane (40x stronger than CO2) and warming that you should worry about.

something like a 10 trillion tons of it from decomposed veg matter trapped under the permafrost, waiting for a little bit o warm from an outside vector.....like us.

then theres the humongous amount of methane ice on the seafloor.

we're f|_|cked.


News flash. That shiat was going to come out sooner or later anyway.
Do you really think our puny efforts could possibly hold the global climate in stasis?

/jeez
 
2008-08-04 02:45:41 PM  

Morton_toes: re-elect_jimmy_carter: NobleHam: I consider myself very liberal and I don't buy the anthropogenic climate change model. No one can deny that the Earth has been warming, but the correlation between that warming and CO2 is very weak, and correlation does not equal causation.

its the correlation between methane (40x stronger than CO2) and warming that you should worry about.

something like a 10 trillion tons of it from decomposed veg matter trapped under the permafrost, waiting for a little bit o warm from an outside vector.....like us.

then theres the humongous amount of methane ice on the seafloor.

we're f|_|cked.

News flash. That shiat was going to come out sooner or later anyway.
Do you really think our puny efforts could possibly hold the global climate in stasis?

/jeez


we could atleast try to slow it down so it doesnt get really bad until we're all dead.
 
2008-08-04 02:46:39 PM  

Digital Communist: When you say your scientists, are you sure you don't mean the media misrepresenting science? The same way it misrepresents global warming now?

Or did you actually read this in peer reviewed science journals in the 60s?

Science has been wrong in the past and will be wrong in the future. But the next best thing after science that we have for understanding what is happening in our world is guessing.


When I say "your" scientists, I mean the ones a person is quoting at me to prove I'm wrong and they're right. Science can only say "we think this is how it works, but further study will either support or disprove it." When someone comes along and says "I know exactly what's happening and I have the answer" they are trying to sell you something. Look at where their money comes from.

The environmentalist agenda drastically opposes the capitalist agenda in many areas. This conflict has manifested itself in cyclamates, spotted owls, monkey wrenching, global warming, DDT, peak oil, sea level rise, dolphin safe tuna and a hundred other battle, small and large, that we could all name. The only people who claim to know the truth and have the answers in these battles are the ones who inhabit on extreme or the other. The actual, practical, acceptable answer is always somewhere in the middle, but either extreme has to fight for their viewpoint, because any movement of the pendulum away from their agenda represents a loss of money or power to them.

Meanwhile, the rest of us just want to scrape by. The people whose jobs were threatened by the spotted owl were not to be blamed for putting "fark the spotted owl" bumper stickers on their cars. I'm sure they felt bad about the spotted owls, and I'm sure they admired the folks who had the extra time and money on their hands to fight for the spotted owls (even though they'd lose nothing if they lost that fight) but if I gotta feed my kids, suddenly your political agenda doesn't impress me much.

The way that these extremes get us little folks who don't give a shiat into the fray is by scaring us. DDT will kill your kids! Global warming will destroy the planet next year! It's an old trick, as old as time. Go to any evangelical church, they've been telling people Jesus is coming back any minute now for nearly 400 years. It's all brainwashing to support their agenda because they have the most to gain or lose, and you are just fodder for their cannons.
 
2008-08-04 02:46:44 PM  

re-elect_jimmy_carter: PascalsGhost: pendy575: PascalsGhost

And they lose their trading rights when they do.

You have os idea what you are talking about. Noc ountry has any "right" for another country to buy their stuff. Read a book.

And the ban? Based on nothing

Here (new window) is the wiki link to a bunch of studies.

Keep killing kids though. Make sure to wear sandals and tye die...wouldn't want anyone confusing you with a republican

The whole time I am talking to you, this is what I keep thinking :

"Don't worry scro, lots of tards are living really kick ass lives..."

you gotta preview your pics before posting.


Goddamn it.

//so I like to steal bandwidth....
 
2008-08-04 02:47:18 PM  
Morton_toes

So, because we are causing an incredibly fast (geologically) increase in average temperature, at a point in the Earths' orbital cycle where we should (if anything) be experiencing a minor amount of cooling, we should not do anything to shift away from releasing so much of the compound responsible for said warming?

Did I get all of your reasoning?
 
2008-08-04 02:48:23 PM  

Darconix: Digital Communist: The difference between people who deny climate change and those who don't is this...

- No amount of science or empirical data will persuade deniers they are wrong
- If science discovered tomorrow climate change isn't real, the supporters would change their opinion right along with it

One group are a bunch of mindless political/religious ideologues and one group is good at science.

Is my sarcasm detector broken or something? "Science" does not change. It requires evidence and proof, not a extra-governmental body sitting down and coming up with a consensus.


Which extra-governmental group are you talking about? I'm talking about what is contained in the scientific literature. Science is not a democracy.

And you think we should restructure our entire economy on something that you admit "might change down the road?" Seriously. WTF?

Science is self-correcting and is very subject to change down the road. The history of science is littered with examples.
 
2008-08-04 02:49:15 PM  

re-elect_jimmy_carter: ts the correlation between methane (40x stronger than CO2) and warming that you should worry about.

something like a 10 trillion tons of it from decomposed veg matter trapped under the permafrost, waiting for a little bit o warm from an outside vector.....like us.


1) Methane is ~25 times stronger per molecule, assuming a 100-year impact window. Carbon dioxide is, however, roughly 205 times more prevalent, so it's still the lion's share of the change in the forcing.

www.esrl.noaa.gov

2) We're controlling methane levels a little better recently. Not so much because of environmental progress, as the fact that methane is increasingly valuable as a fuel. Curbing methane emissions is like recycling aluminum-- you're keeping a financially valuable substance instead of discarding it.

3) Carbon dioxide, on the other hand, is close to valueless. This is what drives the tragedy of the commons related to its production-- only the burner benefits from the combustion of fossil fuels, but the negative impact is spread out across the whole globe.

Methane's important, but not as important.
 
2008-08-04 02:49:16 PM  

Retodd: pendy575: PascalsGhost

You are ok with killing kids in Africa then. I get it. As long as you can protect your little sceince is always right fantasy....

Yep. That's what environmentalism is all about: Killing kids in Africa. All that stuff about making our planet healthier and our quality of lives better was just a front. It's always been about killing kids in Africa.

You've encapsulated our goal perfectly. I guess we have nothing more to add.

You win. Well done.


I see you subscribe to the Prince Philip school of environmentalism.
 
2008-08-04 02:50:51 PM  

grizzlyjohnson: Digital Communist: When you say your scientists, are you sure you don't mean the media misrepresenting science? The same way it misrepresents global warming now?

Or did you actually read this in peer reviewed science journals in the 60s?

Science has been wrong in the past and will be wrong in the future. But the next best thing after science that we have for understanding what is happening in our world is guessing.

When I say "your" scientists, I mean the ones a person is quoting at me to prove I'm wrong and they're right. Science can only say "we think this is how it works, but further study will either support or disprove it." When someone comes along and says "I know exactly what's happening and I have the answer" they are trying to sell you something. Look at where their money comes from.

The environmentalist agenda drastically opposes the capitalist agenda in many areas. This conflict has manifested itself in cyclamates, spotted owls, monkey wrenching, global warming, DDT, peak oil, sea level rise, dolphin safe tuna and a hundred other battle, small and large, that we could all name. The only people who claim to know the truth and have the answers in these battles are the ones who inhabit on extreme or the other. The actual, practical, acceptable answer is always somewhere in the middle, but either extreme has to fight for their viewpoint, because any movement of the pendulum away from their agenda represents a loss of money or power to them.

Meanwhile, the rest of us just want to scrape by. The people whose jobs were threatened by the spotted owl were not to be blamed for putting "fark the spotted owl" bumper stickers on their cars. I'm sure they felt bad about the spotted owls, and I'm sure they admired the folks who had the extra time and money on their hands to fight for the spotted owls (even though they'd lose nothing if they lost that fight) but if I gotta feed my kids, suddenly your political agenda doesn't impress me much.

The way that these extremes get us little folks who don't give a shiat into the fray is by scaring us. DDT will kill your kids! Global warming will destroy the planet next year! It's an old trick, as old as time. Go to any evangelical church, they've been telling people Jesus is coming back any minute now for nearly 400 years. It's all brainwashing to support their agenda because they have the most to gain or lose, and you are just fodder for their cannons.


i dont think anyone is saying that "global warming" is going to kill us next year....not sure what sources you're trying to name.


trends are trends and the climate is a changin.
 
2008-08-04 02:52:28 PM  
I don't really understand the economic arguments against "going green". Shouldn't we be encouraging new industry in a capitalist society?
 
2008-08-04 02:53:04 PM  

Zafler: Morton_toes

So, because we are causing an incredibly fast (geologically) increase in average temperature, at a point in the Earths' orbital cycle where we should (if anything) be experiencing a minor amount of cooling, we should not do anything to shift away from releasing so much of the compound responsible for said warming?

Did I get all of your reasoning?


I'm saying, the world was warming and cooling long before we got here, and will continue that cycle for a long time after we are fodder for the fossil fuels of future generations. Get over ourselves, in effect.

Why do you want to slow it down to pass the problem on to future generations?

Why do you hate our future children?
 
Displayed 50 of 688 comments


Oldest | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | » | Newest | Show all



This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
On Twitter






In Other Media


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report