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(Breitbart.tv)   Obama unveils energy plan: Inflate your tires and we'd have more oil than if we drilled   (breitbart.tv) divider line 382
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1485 clicks; posted to Politics » on 30 Jul 2008 at 8:05 PM (6 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2008-07-30 04:26:27 PM  
I kinda figured it was a troll headline but, I was wrong.
 
2008-07-30 04:34:22 PM  
evildick: I kinda figured it was a troll headline but, I was wrong.

I can't get the video to run..did he say that?
 
2008-07-30 04:35:20 PM  
It's true.

My Grand Prix GTP has a computer that displays MPG. When the mileage starts to drop, it's time to check the tires and such. After that, it gets better by up to 4 MPG.

Pbbbth ;)
 
2008-07-30 04:35:57 PM  
GaryPDX: I can't get the video to run..did he say that?

Yep. Direct quote.
 
2008-07-30 04:41:56 PM  
SpinStopper: GaryPDX: I can't get the video to run..did he say that?

Yep. Direct quote.


wow..I already knew that tire pressure was a factor and kinda figured most people knew that too since I don't see many cars with half flat tires driving around. All I can't say is, wow, I didn't know the energy crisis was that easy to fix.

/snicker
 
2008-07-30 04:43:56 PM  
it is true. there are lots of things we could do to conserve but we have to get out of our gluttonous lifestyles. but we'd rather kill people and steal their stuff to drive our tanks to the store.

It's the American way.
 
2008-07-30 04:46:18 PM  
GaryPDX: wow..I already knew that tire pressure was a factor and kinda figured most people knew that too since I don't see many cars with half flat tires driving around. All I can't say is, wow, I didn't know the energy crisis was that easy to fix.

and it saves you money too instead of committing your children to Chinese servitude. how bout that?
 
2008-07-30 04:50:58 PM  
GaryPDX: wow..I already knew that tire pressure was a factor and kinda figured most people knew that too since I don't see many cars with half flat tires driving around. All I can't say is, wow, I didn't know the energy crisis was that easy to fix.

/snicker


10 PSI down in each tire can lose you a good percentage of your MPG. Many people can run just fine on 20-25 PSI in each tire and not notice.

We lose a few million gallons of gas each year because of under-inflated tires. This is common knowledge.
 
2008-07-30 04:53:01 PM  
Hobodeluxe: and it saves you money too instead of committing your children to Chinese servitude. how bout that?

Yea..they have to get on the beach first..:)
 
2008-07-30 04:55:01 PM  
GaryPDX: Hobodeluxe: and it saves you money too instead of committing your children to Chinese servitude. how bout that?

Yea..they have to get on the beach first..:)


They wouldn't have to get to the beach. They'd only have to stop their exports from getting to the beach.
 
2008-07-30 04:55:08 PM  
I think the statement also demonstrates how little effect the new drilling would effect the supply and demand overall.
the only thing that's really different is the people meeting in the back room with Cheney will profit.
the secret is reducing demand. period. that's the only way out. to get off the oil. yeah it's tough but it's the truth and you know it.
fooling ourselves doesn't solve the problem. only when we come together can we get anything done. it's time we ignored those trying to divide us and come together for our common good.
if we don't then our children pay the full price.
 
2008-07-30 04:57:29 PM  
Raiden333: GaryPDX: Hobodeluxe: and it saves you money too instead of committing your children to Chinese servitude. how bout that?

Yea..they have to get on the beach first..:)

They wouldn't have to get to the beach. They'd only have to stop their exports from getting to the beach.


Well now..then we'd have some real change around here, change we can really believe in. All the cubie hive snowflakes might have to actually work, do and make things again.

/grin
 
2008-07-30 04:58:05 PM  
SpinStopper: GaryPDX: I can't get the video to run..did he say that?

Yep. Direct quote.


And an accurate statement. There are 250,000,000 cars in the US. If all of the owners of those cars took the time to keep them maintained it would improve the average gas mileage of those cars by 3-5 MPG. This would equate to a difference of 112 Gallons of gas less consumed per car per year... for a total of 28,000,000,000 Gallons of gas saved per year nationwide... or about 670,000,000 Barrels of oil.
 
2008-07-30 05:00:50 PM  
GaryPDX: Yea..they have to get on the beach first..:)

heh chances are you're working for them or another foreign owned company already.
you ever looked at the list of Chinese owned corporations?
you ever seen how we are giving them everything? even breaks our own companies don't get? How are U.S. owned corporations to compete? The playing field is not level.

Dude you've already been sold and just don't realize it.
They don't have to storm the beach. The dollar is so weak a default on our debt would destroy it.

wake up you people
 
2008-07-30 05:14:44 PM  
Hobodeluxe: GaryPDX: Yea..they have to get on the beach first..:)

heh chances are you're working for them or another foreign owned company already.
you ever looked at the list of Chinese owned corporations?
you ever seen how we are giving them everything? even breaks our own companies don't get? How are U.S. owned corporations to compete? The playing field is not level.

Dude you've already been sold and just don't realize it.
They don't have to storm the beach. The dollar is so weak a default on our debt would destroy it.

wake up you people


I work for myself actually and I never go to WalMart. I always check to see if something is made in China. I prefer US made because it's usually better quality, for the most part. Expensive, but worth it to me.

No for the twist, I have search every farking where in the US for a smale scale screw press for squishing vegetable oil from plant material. You can't find one in the US and it's agricultural equipment, simple stuff. I'm forced to import one, nobody in the US makes one in the lower scale size. This is for biodiesel production.

America needs to wake up alright, seriously. People need to stop talking and start doing, today. There are rabid thirsty markets chomping at the bit for gear and gadgets that will get us away from dino fuels. I can't afford to buy wind turbine gear either..so I'm hand making them too. Those aren't rocket science either.

/I'm rambling from the cave..lol
//Wolverines!!
 
2008-07-30 05:17:04 PM  
Obama is right. Not only tires but other maintenence too. If your car is out of tune, etc... that can affect mileage.
 
2008-07-30 05:19:07 PM  
I'd like to see the numbers on this...I don't know enough to know if this is BS or not. I'm skeptical, but I just don't know. Subby doesn't either.

Just like subby to be so presumptuous.
 
2008-07-30 05:26:38 PM  
He wasn't outlining his energy policy. He was pointing out what a stupid idea it is to open up more areas for drilling in the Gulf of Mexico. Plus, he's technically right, even though getting people to take better care of their cars is unlikely.
 
2008-07-30 05:27:17 PM  
The biggest domestic oil field is sitting on America's freeways.
 
2008-07-30 05:30:49 PM  
Lionel Mandrake: I'd like to see the numbers on this...I don't know enough to know if this is BS or not. I'm skeptical, but I just don't know.

It's definitely not BS. If your tires are even 10psi lower than optimal levels, you can lose around 5-10% MPG.

Have your local dealer inflate them with nitrogen, it leaks through the tire less quickly than regular air and doesn't oxidize the rubber on the inside of your tire, meaning it should last longer.

To say that most people's tires are already perilously low on air would be silly, of course, but nevertheless it's not a bad idea to have our populace a little better informed on some not-so-self-evident ways to save money at the pump.
 
2008-07-30 05:31:27 PM  
Why would you not drill in the Gulf? We've been drilling there for decades, and it's OURS.

Now, I drive a hybrid Camry, and I am continuing to try to green my lifestyle as much as possible. I believe we need to do that, and obviously we need to learn to use less oil. But why would you go to the store to buy tomato plants if you've got them growing in your own backyard?
 
2008-07-30 05:37:20 PM  
Lionel Mandrake: I'd like to see the numbers on this

It's right on the DOE website. Link (new window)

Nothing new, nothing unique in the idea.
 
2008-07-30 05:37:51 PM  
Locke3k: nitrogen

Is the answer. When I got a new set of tires I had them inflated with nitrogen and never looked back.

It's a huge plus on my parents fifth wheel as well... they filled the trailer tires and presto, slightly cheaper travel.
 
2008-07-30 05:38:11 PM  
I just saw something today on CNN (they had legit sources, I'l try to find them, one was the Houston Chronicle and another was some energy study institute) saying that we would not only not get a drop of oil from offshore drilling until about 2030, but that the price of oil would not be affected by this oil until about 2030 (which makes obvious sense). They also went on to talk about how it is believed that $20-$40 of the oil price is from speculation (that something will go crazy in our world and oil supply will get tight, and that changes in worldwide demand go one way only) and thus we can just deal with it until regulatory changes occur.

So basically, yeah, conservation will give us more oil (and possibly stability in oil prices) over the next 20 year than new drilling. And I hope we can all agree that in 20 years we should be beyond oil for the majority of our needs considering we made nuclear bombs and sent men to the moon quicker than that.
 
2008-07-30 05:38:33 PM  
Of course, the electricity to run the air compressors is free..... and the tune up parts do not require any energy to manufacture....


and ..... bwahahahahahahaha... I can't believe he really said that shiat...
 
2008-07-30 05:40:41 PM  
Tr0mBoNe: Locke3k: nitrogen

Is the answer. When I got a new set of tires I had them inflated with nitrogen and never looked back.

It's a huge plus on my parents fifth wheel as well... they filled the trailer tires and presto, slightly cheaper travel.


I always wondered how true the hype about "Nitro-nized" tires was, considering the air is already ~80% nitrogen anyway.

anyone know some actual numbers?
 
2008-07-30 05:41:37 PM  
real shaman: Of course, the electricity to run the air compressors is free..... and the tune up parts do not require any energy to manufacture....


and ..... bwahahahahahahaha... I can't believe he really said that shiat...


To be fair, it is less energy than running around with the tons of doughnuts and near-flats I see every day.

The poorer the area is, the more likely the cars are poorly maintenance. 15 miles outside of your home town, you'll see what I mean.
 
2008-07-30 05:45:40 PM  
liberalish: I always wondered how true the hype about "Nitro-nized" tires was, considering the air is already ~80% nitrogen anyway.

anyone know some actual numbers?


If you check your pressure every time you get your oil changed, it's not going to make a noticeable difference. If you go years without checking tire pressure, it'll make a difference.

If it's free, it's not going to hurt to put nitrogen in your tires. If it costs extra, don't bother.
 
2008-07-30 05:49:17 PM  
palladiate:

The poorer the area is, the more likely the cars are poorly maintenance.

www2.una.edu
 
2008-07-30 05:51:01 PM  
SchlingFo: liberalish: I always wondered how true the hype about "Nitro-nized" tires was, considering the air is already ~80% nitrogen anyway.

anyone know some actual numbers?

If you check your pressure every time you get your oil changed, it's not going to make a noticeable difference. If you go years without checking tire pressure, it'll make a difference.

If it's free, it's not going to hurt to put nitrogen in your tires. If it costs extra, don't bother.


That was my theory. It's probably just something tire stores offer to get you to buy your tires from them, or repair shops or whatever.
 
2008-07-30 05:52:15 PM  
Locke3k: It's definitely not BS. If your tires are even 10psi lower than optimal levels, you can lose around 5-10% MPG.

lunchinlewis: It's right on the DOE website

Thanks...I know that it makes a huge difference on my own car. It's the cumulative effect, the claim that "we (as a nation) could save as much as we could drill" that I don't know. And how many Americans could be reasonably expected through PSAs or whatever to make that a habit, and how much would that really amount to, etc...these are the known unknowns for me.

Didn't know about the nitrogen thingy, though...thanks!
 
2008-07-30 05:52:54 PM  
Oh, and you wanted numbers:

Graham's Law

R2/R1 = SQRT(M1/M2)

Basically, it's saying that the ratio of rate two to rate one is equal to the square root of the molar mass of gas one to the molar mass of gas two.

N2 has a molar mas of 28, while O2 has a molar mass of 32.

This means that the ratio of the rate of diffusion of O2 to N2 is about .94

Essentially, their rates of diffusion out of the tire are approximately the same. There's no real difference.
 
2008-07-30 05:55:16 PM  
I can walk to work. That's like inflating a few million tires.
 
2008-07-30 05:55:27 PM  
liberalish: I just saw something today on CNN (they had legit sources, I'l try to find them, one was the Houston Chronicle and another was some energy study institute) saying that we would not only not get a drop of oil from offshore drilling until about 2030, but that the price of oil would not be affected by this oil until about 2030 (which makes obvious sense).

Even if we assume this is true, why is that a reason NOT to do something? If we had forward thinking politicians in the late 1970's/early 1980's who had actually put a great effort into doing something about the oil problems -- building refineries, allowing off-shore drilling, etc -- then we would at least be starting to see some relief today.

Investment takes time. Part of the problem with the American people in general is that they want quick fix solutions -- they want solutions RIGHT NOW. That's not how the world works, in general, and anyone saying that it does is either naive or being intentionally misleading.

Let's take a look at 2030, the date you use. We aren't seeing massive investment in renewable energy sources -- maybe we will with Obama, maybe we wont'. But no right minded person believes that oil will be gone and irrelevant by 2030. With that in mind, wouldn't it be better to allow oil companies to extract oil from areas under US control so long as we have the caveat that we will only allow such extraction provided the oil is sold in the domestic market? That would mean that the oil we do need (which, hopefully, at that point is nowhere near what we require now and have required for the recent past) would come from a domestic sources. We wouldn't be giving that money to foreign countries regardless of their ideology. No more Saudi handholding because we have to or they won't give us oil. Wouldn't that be a great thing? I think it would be.

I'm for offshore drilling with the above caveat, and I'm fully aware it won't do anything IMMEDIATELY to solve the problem. We need to be thinking in terms of decades into the future, and failure to do something now merely because it won't cause an immediate improvement is short sighted and the same type of thinking that got us into the massive budget deficits that we are leaving future generations with.

/rant off
 
2008-07-30 05:56:04 PM  
you mean, people exercising personal responsibility in making sure their cars are properly maintained might help them out more than government intervention?

The hell you say.
 
2008-07-30 05:56:19 PM  
liberalish: That was my theory. It's probably just something tire stores offer to get you to buy your tires from them, or repair shops or whatever.

Pretty much this.

My example was best case scenario, assuming going from pure 02 tires to pure N2 tires.

Going from atmospheric air to N2 has an even tighter ratio. Atmospheric air has a molar mass of about 29, and N2 has a molar mass of 28.

That gives a ratio of about 0.98.
 
2008-07-30 05:59:39 PM  
KaponoFor3: Even if we assume this is true, why is that a reason NOT to do something? If we had forward thinking politicians in the late 1970's/early 1980's who had actually put a great effort into doing something about the oil problems -- building refineries, allowing off-shore drilling, etc -- then we would at least be starting to see some relief today.

We'll get the oil in 2030. By reducing consumption now by doing things like making sure our tires are inflated or living closer to work or buying locally grown produce, we'll save money now and we'll reduce dependence on foreign and we'll reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

Or we can wait till 2030 and get a dip in oil prices then.

Of course, we could do both. But if we reduce our consumption, and invest heavily in alternatives, maybe we won't need to drill for oil in the future.

And oil will eventually become prohibitively expensive to use. Should we hold up drilling more as the solution, or find alternatives now and then sell them to developing countries once oil gets more expensive?
 
2008-07-30 06:07:46 PM  
...And who tells us that there's not enough oil in the ground worth drilling? The oil companies... the same people that profit on that kind of information.
 
2008-07-30 06:13:09 PM  
SchlingFo: 2 has a molar mas of 28, while O2 has a molar mass of 32.

Wouldn't that mean we should be filling them with pure O2? Heavier molecule=slower diffusion.

SchlingFo:
Going from atmospheric air to N2 has an even tighter ratio. Atmospheric air has a molar mass of about 29, and N2 has a molar mass of 28.


Atmospheric air is heavier? Then unless I am missing something here why replace with a lighter molecule in N2?
 
2008-07-30 06:15:27 PM  
The Icelander: By reducing consumption now by doing things like making sure our tires are inflated or living closer to work or buying locally grown produce, we'll save money now and we'll reduce dependence on foreign and we'll reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

Yes, we could save money now. We could reduce foreign dependence (somewhat) now -- that is assuming that people be responsible in how they act, and while that is definitely idealistic, I don't know how realistic it is. Same thing with greenhouse emissions.

I say we do both.

But if we reduce our consumption, and invest heavily in alternatives, maybe we won't need to drill for oil in the future.

Maybe we won't need to -- but that is an optimistic projection. I say we plan for the worst but hope for the best.

The Icelander: And oil will eventually become prohibitively expensive to use. Should we hold up drilling more as the solution, or find alternatives now and then sell them to developing countries once oil gets more expensive?

What makes you think it will become prohibitively expensive to use? Drilling more isn't the sole solution because there is no sole solution -- the two aren't mutually exclusive, which I think you recognize.
 
2008-07-30 06:19:59 PM  
KaponoFor3:

Pretty much what The Icelander said.

We don't need to invest hundreds of billions in drilling, we need to invest it (and make economic incentives for private investment) in currently available and future alternative technologies. Many of these technologies exist already, we need to build the infrastructure to support them.

/oh, The Icelander, you responded to a (what I thought) was a blatent sarcastic post of mine about nothing good coming from NASA in the "50 great things" thread. Sorry, I thought it was obvious I was kidding based on the article. Didn't mean to get you all riled up.
 
2008-07-30 06:23:20 PM  
liberalish: We don't need to invest hundreds of billions in drilling, we need to invest it (and make economic incentives for private investment) in currently available and future alternative technologies. Many of these technologies exist already, we need to build the infrastructure to support them.

The two are not mutually exclusive -- investment in renewable energy sources and investment in offshore drilling. Oil will always be needed in our economy, even if it is not to power our vehicles (although it will be needed for that purpose for the foreseeable future).

Besides, as I understand most of Obama's proposals, it would be the federal government investing in renewable energy technology and sources, whereas it would be the profit-driven oil companies who would have to foot the bill for offshore drilling. That makes the two options far less mutually exclusive than they would be if we assumed funding for both would come from the same source.

"Offshore drilling -- it's OK, don't be scared. It just might help." That should be its slogan.
 
2008-07-30 06:30:39 PM  
KaponoFor3:

I also weigh heavily the environmental concerns related to offshore drilling. I am no tree hugger by a long shot, but I do not think our coastal waters are a good place to have (another) accident.

Al Gore, for all his faults and manbearpig fear-mongering, implored the US and other developed countries to launch a development program on a "man on the moon" scale to develop and produce alternative energy. There are only ourselves holding the US back from being the Saudi Arabia of the next hundred years by developing, manufacturing, selling, licensing, and running all the technologies needed to power the world.
 
2008-07-30 06:35:28 PM  
I normally keep my tires inflated correctly just because it makes sense to keep a machine at optimum performance, But I am willing to let some of the air out to express my support for conservative values.

vote Republican in 2008 and don't give the future another thought.
 
2008-07-30 06:38:25 PM  
Hans and Franz would be the perfect spokesenfolken for this.

/Ve vant to pump YOU up.
 
2008-07-30 06:45:50 PM  
Why conserve when you can exploit?
 
2008-07-30 06:48:31 PM  
KaponoFor3: The two are not mutually exclusive -- investment in renewable energy sources and investment in offshore drilling. Oil will always be needed in our economy, even if it is not to power our vehicles (although it will be needed for that purpose for the foreseeable future).

Of course they aren't exclusive. However, 22 years is a pretty long time in the automotive life cycle. How many cars from 15 years ago do you see on the road? Some, but not many. if we spent the next 10 years heavily pushing and promoting new vehicle power sources (which exist, or will very shortly) by (say) 2030 our demand for oil could be significantly smaller than it is now.

Besides, as I understand most of Obama's proposals, it would be the federal government investing in renewable energy technology and sources, whereas it would be the profit-driven oil companies who would have to foot the bill for offshore drilling. That makes the two options far less mutually exclusive than they would be if we assumed funding for both would come from the same source.

I think Obama is a great guy, hell I'll be voting for him come fall, but I don't think he's the Messiah, nor do I agree with each of his ideas. The gov't should create economic incentives for the oil co's to invest their own cash right now in alternative energy, while they are hugely profitable and still top dogs. Saying to Exxon "Hey guys, we're gonna provide an economic incentive for you to develop new technologies (which they always talk about on their TV spots) and but we're not going to allow new drilling offshore. This gives you the opportunity to be the energy market leaders well into future."

"Offshore drilling -- it's OK, don't be scared. It just might help." That should be its slogan.

Offshore drilling, it's what they tell you you need.
 
2008-07-30 06:53:56 PM  
liberalish: Some, but not many. if we spent the next 10 years heavily pushing and promoting new vehicle power sources (which exist, or will very shortly) by (say) 2030 our demand for oil could be significantly smaller than it is now.

That's the key phrase -- we don't know if it will be. Like I said, plan for the worst but hope for the best. The worst case is that the technology isn't as easy to perfect as we thought, and we continue to be dependent on oil to power our cars then.

liberalish: The gov't should create economic incentives for the oil co's to invest their own cash right now in alternative energy, while they are hugely profitable and still top dogs.

Not a bad idea, but even with that, the oil companies would continue to want to invest in new sources of oil just in case the technology is not as easy to perfect as we thought. Plan for the worst should be the motto.

liberalish: Offshore drilling, it's what they tell you you need.

Offshore drilling -- "we need to do something if the renewable energy fairy doesn't grant us our wishes"
 
2008-07-30 07:02:44 PM  
liberalish: I just saw something today on CNN (they had legit sources, I'l try to find them, one was the Houston Chronicle and another was some energy study institute) saying that we would not only not get a drop of oil from offshore drilling until about 2030, but that the price of oil would not be affected by this oil until about 2030 (which makes obvious sense).

That is a load of sh*t and any honest person knows it. Here in North Dakota companies are drilling to tap the Bakken Formation as fast as they can. A well goes from groundbreaking to pumping oil in a matter of months. Drive along Highway 2 in western ND and in just one week you would not recognize a site from what it looked like a week before.

Those long time estimations are nothing but scare tactics. Even if you have no infrastructure whatsoever in an area it would take no more than a few years to get production online. This isn't new technology, we are talking about here.

Link (new window)

From the link above:I called Transocean, the biggest driller in the world. An officer of the company told me that depending on the location of the drilling, oil could be realized in as little as a year.

Ultra-deepwater fields might produce in 3-5 years. For the most remote locations, without any prior infrastructure support, that barrel may require a 4-6 year window. I suggested 8 years and he said that he could not envision a situation where it would require more than 6 years to bring a barrel out of the ocean floor.
 
2008-07-30 07:12:37 PM  
Hey, he's not incorrect. And better to keep your tires at an optimal pressure as he suggests, instead of just feeling good about your tires as McCain would suggest.
 
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