I think I'll wait for the six-episode "Complete Series" DVD that'll be out around December.

Why is Whedon working with Fox? Didn't he learn his lesson with Firefly?

I can wait a little longer if it means her in hotter clothing. shiat she does the whole series in a bikini and I will preorder the DVDs now.

It's good to see a man take his art seriously.

/drool

...well, I sure as hell am not gonna watch because of her acting.

Two Dogs Farking

*cough*

A pretty shell. Oh yes.

Speaking as someone who enjoyed buffy and to a lesser extent firefly...

I just can't bring myself to care. I actually like Eliza Dushku... But Joss' stuff is All The Same--

1: The Center Cannot Hold -- in ANYTHING.
2: Every relationship -- EVERY RELATIONSHIP -- had sexual tension. There is no such thing as a familial or platonic relationship.
3: There is no such thing as a stable relationship. Ever.
4: It's gotten to the point where it's self-parody.

It's -- just gotten old. He doesn't change his stories or his characters, just his genres, really. Which is sad, because he writes well! It's just-- once you've seen one or two of Joss' shows, you've... pretty much seen all he can do.

she makes for a pretty portrait.

Don't forget about the same characters/ different names scenario

There is ALWAYS the quirky female character similar to Willow in Buffy and the Bad ass with a heart of gold similar to Spike

I love you Joss but C'MON!

Boritom: Why is Whedon working with Fox? Didn't he learn his lesson with Firefly?

That's something that's been bugging me about this, too. I seem to remember him saying he'd never work with them again after the crap they pulled with Firefly.

Could be a faulty memory on my part, but still.

Why not have her prancing around in a bikini or a thong? That will garner huge ratings.

// well, something will be huge

Juansmith: I think I'll wait for the six-episode "Complete Series" DVD that'll be out around December.

This.

Mr. McPeanut: Boritom: Why is Whedon working with Fox? Didn't he learn his lesson with Firefly?

That's something that's been bugging me about this, too. I seem to remember him saying he'd never work with them again after the crap they pulled with Firefly.

Could be a faulty memory on my part, but still.

The answer is something to the effect of 'the people that screwed Firefly are no longer the people at Fox now'

The First: Why not have her prancing around in a bikini...

OK

Link (new window)

Sir Joss of Whedon has officially stated that the guys who axed Firefly are elsewhere, so he feels safe, but after all the trouble he and Tim Minear have had, I'm shocked he has any faith left in the TV Production Hollywood machine at all.

/Should made that Wonder Woman movie instead.

//Dr. Horrible FTW!

///Keep 'em coming, Second Hand!

JuanSmith - I think I'll wait for the six-episode "Complete Series" DVD that'll be out around December.

Ouch.

/though it will probably come true...

Thirty posts and no bikini scene (new window)from The New Guy?

Came here for this pics and was not dissappointed. She is so damn foxy.

I'd rather she was wearing leather hotpants instead.

AMurderOfCrows:
1: The Center Cannot Hold -- in ANYTHING.
2: Every relationship -- EVERY RELATIONSHIP -- had sexual tension. There is no such thing as a familial or platonic relationship.
3: There is no such thing as a stable relationship. Ever.
4: It's gotten to the point where it's self-parody.

It's -- just gotten old. He doesn't change his stories or his characters, just his genres, really. Which is sad, because he writes well! It's just-- once you've seen one or two of Joss' shows, you've... pretty much seen all he can do.

I'm not sure I get this. I mean points 1-3 are sort of what make for...drama. We're not talking about Mr. Roper overhearing an innuendo. And sexual tension and unstable relationships play well in red and blue states. This feels like another way to look at the classic "Whedon hates his characters" argument. If Whedon loved all his characters and the center held and there was no sexual tension, we could just call the show "Tuesday." It would suck. It would be like my Tuesday, but with snappier dialog. Well, I'm holding my end of the snappy dialog up, but world, you're letting me down.

I totally understand you not liking Whedon anymore, but these are terrible reasons. I'd have been happier with a "meh" response. I guess if I am supposed to somehow get happiness from reading what other people think...

I dunno--I think the marketing people manage to keep killing his shows more than execs or whathaveyou. I remember all the hype for Firefly and to a lesser extent Serenity. I was a big Buffy/Angel fan but all I remember from the adds was something that looked like Buffy in space and hints of lesbian tension. Just looked like they were trying to sell it to 17 yr old fanboys. So I didn't bite. Just this last week I bought the DVDs on sale at Target on a whim and love the show--if there had even been a hint in the advertising at the clever banter I'd have been all over it. I'm getting the same vibe from Dollhouse...they'll market to fanboys a large but insufficient audience, alienate everyone else, who'll slowly discover its coolness 4 years post-cancellation.

smellyrunningshoes: I dunno--I think the marketing people manage to keep killing his shows more than execs or whathaveyou. I remember all the hype for Firefly and to a lesser extent Serenity. I was a big Buffy/Angel fan but all I remember from the adds was something that looked like Buffy in space and hints of lesbian tension. Just looked like they were trying to sell it to 17 yr old fanboys. So I didn't bite. Just this last week I bought the DVDs on sale at Target on a whim and love the show--if there had even been a hint in the advertising at the clever banter I'd have been all over it. I'm getting the same vibe from Dollhouse...they'll market to fanboys a large but insufficient audience, alienate everyone else, who'll slowly discover its coolness 4 years post-cancellation.

I could swear I just read of someone complaining that the ads made the show look TOO comical and not serious enough.

Firefly was a bit schizophrenic. I don't understand how fanboys can avoid the simple truth that marketing a "lighthearted drama" set in a futuristic, outer space, Old west / Chinese hybrid is a tough sell in a 20-second commercial.

And they're not "gratuitous lesbian scenes to please the 17-year-old fanboys." That's what you call it when Fastlane does it. When WHEDON does it, it's "female empowerment."

/And Fastlane had Jamie Pressly and Tiffany Theissen

Boritom: Why is Whedon working with Fox? Didn't he learn his lesson with Firefly?

I preface this comment by saying I hate Whedon. Really, really, I do.

BUT, I'm giving him credit for not pulling a public hissyfit about working with Fox again as if he has the right to throw one.

One of the big four networks offered him an opportunity for a steady paycheck, which in the entertainment industry is never a sure thing. The entertainment world is fickle, and he's not in that good a position to turn down an opportunity to turn down a major conglomerate. (I don't believe he's as big as the internet would have you believe.)

And let's face it, bro wants to be regarded as a famous writer in TV (and movies, to some extent, but I really don't think he wants it as much). If he didn't, he would steep himself in comics writing.

He WANTS to be a success in television and he wants it BAD. And his best path to success is through a big network. Dude takes big risks and doesn't want to go back to the mini-networks where he's found more substantial victories.

Even if the same guys were working in Fox that axed Firefly, I'm certain he'd say 'artistic sensibilities be damned' and jump at the chance.

Make no mistake, he's not some 'artiste' who's above it all. I'm sure he plays the game just like everyone else.

chrisdmid,

I'm not saying the previews are too serious or too comical. They're just too focused on River. Personally I find everything that goes on *around* River to be more interesting then what she's actually doing, while always recognizing that River is the common thread. I honestly think a preview with just about any continuous 30 seconds of the show would have hooked folks like me--which may not be a big demographic either (20 something female) but we were his Buffy bread and butter. A lot of my older friends who hate Buffy/Angel love Firefly. That demographic too I think is lost on an all River ad. Anyhow, yeah yeah, Joss and 'empowerment'...cause really all women are lesbians :p

\would take Jayne over Inara any day and twice on Sunday.

She is my fantasy, she is so damn sexy

gilberry: AMurderOfCrows:
1: The Center Cannot Hold -- in ANYTHING.
2: Every relationship -- EVERY RELATIONSHIP -- had sexual tension. There is no such thing as a familial or platonic relationship.
3: There is no such thing as a stable relationship. Ever.
4: It's gotten to the point where it's self-parody.

It's -- just gotten old. He doesn't change his stories or his characters, just his genres, really. Which is sad, because he writes well! It's just-- once you've seen one or two of Joss' shows, you've... pretty much seen all he can do.

I'm not sure I get this. I mean points 1-3 are sort of what make for...drama. We're not talking about Mr. Roper overhearing an innuendo. And sexual tension and unstable relationships play well in red and blue states. This feels like another way to look at the classic "Whedon hates his characters" argument. If Whedon loved all his characters and the center held and there was no sexual tension, we could just call the show "Tuesday." It would suck. It would be like my Tuesday, but with snappier dialog. Well, I'm holding my end of the snappy dialog up, but world, you're letting me down.

I totally understand you not liking Whedon anymore, but these are terrible reasons. I'd have been happier with a "meh" response. I guess if I am supposed to somehow get happiness from reading what other people think...

I'm saying it's utterly predictable.

You KNOW That if So and So hooks up with MissBlah, within a season they'll be broken up or one of them will be dead or evil. (See: Buffy and everybody she ever dated, Angel and Cordelia, Willow and Tara, Xander and everyone HE's ever dated, Zoe and Wash, and Mal and Inara.)

It's simply his story philosophy. Conflict is good, but when you're certain that nothing can stay good -- and I'm not talking PLOT staying 'good', or events, I'm saying EVEN THE FLOWERS ROT AND DRIP SORROW eventually -- that things get old. You get tired of the same conflicts from the same sources.

I love his dialogue. I love his grasp of character. But I can't handle another series where entropy is the basic source of all story, and basically watching everything disintegrate, be haphazardly rebuilt and disintegrate again got old.

AMurderOfCrows: gilberry: AMurderOfCrows:
2: Every relationship -- EVERY RELATIONSHIP -- had sexual tension. There is no such thing as a familial or platonic relationship.

...

You KNOW That if So and So hooks up with MissBlah, within a season they'll be broken up or one of them will be dead or evil. (See: Buffy and everybody she ever dated, Angel and Cordelia, Willow and Tara, Xander and everyone HE's ever dated, Zoe and Wash, and Mal and Inara.)


OK, except neither Angel and Cordy or Mal and Inara ever hooked up, and most of the rest were between the ages 16-22, at which point most relationships don't work out. In a show about growing up (Buffy), relationships are going to fall apart because that's generally a part of growing up.

Also I don't know why you think there weren't any familial/platonic relationships. Ignoring the actual family relationships there's also Giles and practically all the characters in Buffy; Wes, Gunn, Lorne and Angel (outside of fanfic), not to mention practically the entire crew of Serenity.

AMurderOfCrows: gilberry: AMurderOfCrows:
1: The Center Cannot Hold -- in ANYTHING.
2: Every relationship -- EVERY RELATIONSHIP -- had sexual tension. There is no such thing as a familial or platonic relationship.
3: There is no such thing as a stable relationship. Ever.
4: It's gotten to the point where it's self-parody.

It's -- just gotten old. He doesn't change his stories or his characters, just his genres, really. Which is sad, because he writes well! It's just-- once you've seen one or two of Joss' shows, you've... pretty much seen all he can do.

I'm not sure I get this. I mean points 1-3 are sort of what make for...drama. We're not talking about Mr. Roper overhearing an innuendo. And sexual tension and unstable relationships play well in red and blue states. This feels like another way to look at the classic "Whedon hates his characters" argument. If Whedon loved all his characters and the center held and there was no sexual tension, we could just call the show "Tuesday." It would suck. It would be like my Tuesday, but with snappier dialog. Well, I'm holding my end of the snappy dialog up, but world, you're letting me down.

I totally understand you not liking Whedon anymore, but these are terrible reasons. I'd have been happier with a "meh" response. I guess if I am supposed to somehow get happiness from reading what other people think...

I'm saying it's utterly predictable.

You KNOW That if So and So hooks up with MissBlah, within a season they'll be broken up or one of them will be dead or evil. (See: Buffy and everybody she ever dated, Angel and Cordelia, Willow and Tara, Xander and everyone HE's ever dated, Zoe and Wash, and Mal and Inara.)

It's simply his story philosophy. Conflict is good, but when you're certain that nothing can stay good -- and I'm not talking PLOT staying 'good', or events, I'm saying EVEN THE FLOWERS ROT AND DRIP SORROW eventually -- that things get old. You get tired of the same conflicts from the same sources.

I love his dialogue. I love his grasp of character. But I can't handle another series where entropy is the basic source of all story, and basically watching everything disintegrate, be haphazardly rebuilt and disintegrate again got old.

You are fully conscious of the fact that the exsiccation of all flesh, living things, relationships, goals, faiths, ideals, memories and beliefs is inevitable, no?

Eliza Dushku would be hot wearing a burlap sack.

Is it just me, or does Eliza always have that "I'm really really tired but smiling anyway"-look on her face?

Trefusius: AMurderOfCrows: gilberry: AMurderOfCrows:
2: Every relationship -- EVERY RELATIONSHIP -- had sexual tension. There is no such thing as a familial or platonic relationship.

...

You KNOW That if So and So hooks up with MissBlah, within a season they'll be broken up or one of them will be dead or evil. (See: Buffy and everybody she ever dated, Angel and Cordelia, Willow and Tara, Xander and everyone HE's ever dated, Zoe and Wash, and Mal and Inara.)


OK, except neither Angel and Cordy or Mal and Inara ever hooked up, and most of the rest were between the ages 16-22, at which point most relationships don't work out. In a show about growing up (Buffy), relationships are going to fall apart because that's generally a part of growing up.

Also I don't know why you think there weren't any familial/platonic relationships. Ignoring the actual family relationships there's also Giles and practically all the characters in Buffy; Wes, Gunn, Lorne and Angel (outside of fanfic), not to mention practically the entire crew of Serenity.

I'm not going to trawl google to try and find the interview where he said, "Every relationship in my show has some element of sexual attraction," but I'll leave it to you to do it. I've done my time hanging on Whedon's every word -- I know what I like, and Joss no longer does it for me.

Master Of The Art Of Second-Hand Gratification: AMurderOfCrows: gilberry: AMurderOfCrows:
1: The Center Cannot Hold -- in ANYTHING.
2: Every relationship -- EVERY RELATIONSHIP -- had sexual tension. There is no such thing as a familial or platonic relationship.
3: There is no such thing as a stable relationship. Ever.
4: It's gotten to the point where it's self-parody.

It's -- just gotten old. He doesn't change his stories or his characters, just his genres, really. Which is sad, because he writes well! It's just-- once you've seen one or two of Joss' shows, you've... pretty much seen all he can do.

I'm not sure I get this. I mean points 1-3 are sort of what make for...drama. We're not talking about Mr. Roper overhearing an innuendo. And sexual tension and unstable relationships play well in red and blue states. This feels like another way to look at the classic "Whedon hates his characters" argument. If Whedon loved all his characters and the center held and there was no sexual tension, we could just call the show "Tuesday." It would suck. It would be like my Tuesday, but with snappier dialog. Well, I'm holding my end of the snappy dialog up, but world, you're letting me down.

I totally understand you not liking Whedon anymore, but these are terrible reasons. I'd have been happier with a "meh" response. I guess if I am supposed to somehow get happiness from reading what other people think...

I'm saying it's utterly predictable.

You KNOW That if So and So hooks up with MissBlah, within a season they'll be broken up or one of them will be dead or evil. (See: Buffy and everybody she ever dated, Angel and Cordelia, Willow and Tara, Xander and everyone HE's ever dated, Zoe and Wash, and Mal and Inara.)

It's simply his story philosophy. Conflict is good, but when you're certain that nothing can stay good -- and I'm not talking PLOT staying 'good', or events, I'm saying EVEN THE FLOWERS ROT AND DRIP SORROW eventually -- that things get old. You get tired of the same conflicts from the same sources.

I love his dialogue. I love his grasp of character. But I can't handle another series where entropy is the basic source of all story, and basically watching everything disintegrate, be haphazardly rebuilt and disintegrate again got old.

You are fully conscious of the fact that the exsiccation of all flesh, living things, relationships, goals, faiths, ideals, memories and beliefs is inevitable, no?


Well, yes. But do I need it in my fiction all the farking time? Not really.

Trefusius: OK, except neither Angel and Cordy or Mal and Inara ever hooked up, and most of the rest were between the ages 16-22, at which point most relationships don't work out. In a show about growing up (Buffy), relationships are going to fall apart because that's generally a part of growing up.

Also I don't know why you think there weren't any familial/platonic relationships. Ignoring the actual family relationships there's also Giles and practically all the characters in Buffy; Wes, Gunn, Lorne and Angel (outside of fanfic), not to mention practically the entire crew of Serenity.

Mal and Inara just had tension, and its been a bit since i watched the show, but didn't the friendship fall apart as a result? Basically every female character in Firefly had a relationship with a crewmember... Whedon just doesn't seem to do male-male relationships often in his shows.

I see where he's going with the comments on Whedon though, but I think there's enough dressing up from changing genres that the elements you liked in one show are still present but are nice and shiny and new again when presented this way.

So I'll give the show a shot, even though it probably won't last more than a season or two. Tru Calling was worth watching for her, so I'm sure this will be.