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(Fayetteville Observer)   First woman in U.S. Armed Forces history is confirmed by Senate to wear 4 stars. Hero tag shatters 232-year old brass ceiling, Boobies tag stays hidden under camouflage   (fayobserver.com) divider line 165
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22597 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Jul 2008 at 3:28 AM (6 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2008-07-25 10:13:14 AM
thatguyfred,

Just about every general throughout history has gotten where they were because of elbow rubbing and playing politics. It's how they act when they get control of a large chunk of a military that matters.

Sometimes you have exceptionally good Generals, sometimes very poor. Perfect example, Eisenhower, who didn't see a second of combat during his duties around WWI.

The fact that his peacetime assignments were under General Conner, Pershing, Mosely, and MacArthur hasdeverything to do with getting him positioned to work under Marshall, which was directly responsible for his appointment as the head of the European Theater.

Was he a great General? Nope, but he was one hell of a logistics guy. He managed diplomacy and alliances in order to bring us success in that field of operations.

Military organizations have never been a meritocracy, at least beyond Non-commissioned level.
 
2008-07-25 10:16:38 AM
Did she get the 4 stars in cooking?

Im sorry until a woman can meet more of the physical requirements they should not be anything more than just support for the millitary.
 
2008-07-25 10:17:53 AM
As a male, non-combat Army officer, I'm really getting a kick out of these replies.
 
2008-07-25 10:21:23 AM
chu2dogg: Hell has anyone ever gotten higher than 0-3 without playing politics? I need some evidence of this

As a medical officer, you can rise to O-4 based on merit. Much past that, politics come into play.

On topic, congratulations to GEN Dunwoody. She still wouldn't be qualified to be a PVT with the Rakkasans, but she's filling an important role.
 
2008-07-25 10:23:19 AM
steamingpile: Im sorry until a woman can meet more of the physical requirements they should not be anything more than just support for the millitary.

You do realize that women in the military are only allowed to serve in support MOSs, don't you? Women aren't allowed to hold a combat arms MOS.
 
2008-07-25 10:28:07 AM
zipdog: So they make cute widdle puppy dogs and Iraqi women and children?


Oh, boo. Just boo.
 
2008-07-25 10:28:08 AM
Every person in this thread that implys that she doesn't deserve this promotion just because she hasn't "seen combat" is a complete moron that knows very little about the Military and how it is run.

Congratualtions to her. She deserves it
 
2008-07-25 10:29:15 AM
What's the big friggin deal? Did she earn it or did she get it just because she is a woman?
 
2008-07-25 10:29:35 AM
Um I noticed he's looking at the back of her head.
 
2008-07-25 10:33:16 AM
/giggity

www.twtid.org
 
2008-07-25 10:34:29 AM
Congats!!

/salutes in return
//former U.S.A.F.
 
2008-07-25 10:35:52 AM
steamingpile: Did she get the 4 stars in cooking?

Im sorry until a woman can meet more of the physical requirements they should not be anything more than just support for the millitary.


Because all women do not meet the physical standards for guys, right? Newsflash: Some women can meet or exceed the male physical standards.

Also, why the hell are some of you asserting that frontline combat experience is required to attain some general rank? What about all the doctors and lawyers in the military? Do they have to go pick up a rifle and do a few combat tours through Iraq in order to lead their respective commands? Logistics is a larger command and one combat-vital enough to warrant four stars. Should the commander have to have had combat experience?
 
2008-07-25 10:42:40 AM
IHateHipHop: Because all women do not meet the physical standards for guys, right? Newsflash: Some women can meet or exceed the male physical standards.

The retard's tilting at windmills. As it stands, women can only serve in a support MOS. So, he's getting his panties all bunched up over something that's not even occuring.
 
2008-07-25 10:45:06 AM
she's a poge wearing rigger wings. I'm glad to know we're paying someone 6 figures to pack parachutes.
 
2008-07-25 10:50:29 AM
SchlingFo: steamingpile: Im sorry until a woman can meet more of the physical requirements they should not be anything more than just support for the millitary.

You do realize that women in the military are only allowed to serve in support MOSs, don't you? Women aren't allowed to hold a combat arms MOS.


Yeah but women biatch about it all the time, they cant get it through their larger brain that they are not equal physically.

IHateHipHop: Because all women do not meet the physical standards for guys, right? Newsflash: Some women can meet or exceed the male physical standards.

So because 1-2% of women meet or exceed the standards everything should be fine? I dont think any women should be anywhere near combat even in support roles, when shiat hits the fan you need robot men to take over. If this was what takes place you would never have women POWs, so it does happen.
 
2008-07-25 10:51:23 AM
www.qwiglee.com

"I BET SHE COULD SUCK A GOLF BALL THROUGH A GARDEN HOSE!"
 
2008-07-25 10:57:39 AM
steamingpile: Yeah but women biatch about it all the time, they cant get it through their larger brain that they are not equal physically.

So, what you're saying is that people shouldn't be allowed in combat arms until they can prove that they are physically capable of performing that job??
 
2008-07-25 11:01:50 AM
SchlingFo: So, what you're saying is that people shouldn't be allowed in combat arms until they can prove that they are physically capable of performing that job??

Or at least, beat the crap out of civilians who say they can't....
 
2008-07-25 11:18:24 AM
Dreamless Quote 2008-07-25 03:43:26 AM
Hide your chickens: Congatulations, commander of the U.S. Army division of scrubbing the kitchen floor and making me a sandwich. Well done!

Oh, I get it. It's because she's a woman! That's why it's a joke. Women have traditionally been associated with domestic duties such as cleaning and preparing meals. So by referring to that, you are downplaying her military achievements and "putting her in her place." Very funny.


Lighten up, Frances.
 
2008-07-25 11:19:14 AM
lazymojo: Didn't you used to have to conduct an actual war to get more stars, not just be the high scorer in the defense appropriations game?

GSP would be disgusted with our military today.


Yeah, in WWII. Possibly in Korea and Vietnam. Modern military, not so much.

It's more about having perfect fitness reports and having the right appearance (which is why there's a portrait in your promotion packet).

Perfect fitness reports are earned by a combination of not personally screwing up in a visible manner, brown nosing, and not making any enemies with anyone who sits on your promotion board (or is friends with someone who does). Actually DOING anything is pretty much optional... mediocrity or even outright incompetence at their job is generally no barrier to promotion for an officer as long as they "have command presence", know how to shmooze and can shift blame to and steal credit from their subordinates.

Not saying all officers are like that, but in my experience the good, competent dedicated officers are outnumbered by the incompetent brown nosers by about 5 to 1.
 
2008-07-25 11:23:32 AM
This will be fun until she gets taken out and beaten like Petraeus. He's been a surrogate whipping boy for Bush.

He was handed a horrible mess and he's been making progress.

Instead of placing the blame with Bush and Rumsfeld, I saw the most shameless blame game in politics that I have seen in a long time. All those shoveling venom his way know he cannot speak out against them, so you basically have to sit back and listen to someone like Pelosi or Hagel tell you how to run an occupation.
 
2008-07-25 11:25:12 AM
Out of curiosity, does anyone know how many generals and admirals are in the US Military, and how many are female?

And for that matter, how many people are in the US Military, and how many are female?

(Siting a credible source would be nice too.)

Thanks.
 
2008-07-25 11:25:54 AM
yasonrad: she's a poge wearing rigger wings. I'm glad to know we're paying someone 6 figures to pack parachutes.

She's not being paid to pack chutes. She's being paid to lead and supervise Army logistical experts, and she brings experience from command time as a CPT, LTC, a COL, a BG, and a MG. The badges she earned as a young officer are past marks of distinction, not what she does routinely now. They just signify she used to be an expert at it at one time.

More important than her rigger wings, she wears master parachutist wings. That means she's graduated from the US Army Jumpmaster school, which has a greater than 60% fail rate, and is utterly grueling, both mentally and physically. Those wings also mean she has at least 65 jumps, including 25 with a heavy rucksack between her legs, 4 at night, and 5 on mass tactical exercises.

In fact, she probably has MANY times more than that, considering she's been on jump status for 11 years (most of them in the 82nd Airborne Division). Thousands of paratroopers (the vast majority of whom are men) have put their life in her hands -- LITERALLY -- as she's inspected their parachutes and pushed them out the door of an aircraft 1200 feet up in the air.

Her 1-star command was in the 18th Airborne Corps, so you can damn well be sure she jumpmastered as recently as 6 years ago, kicking ass in her late 40s.
 
2008-07-25 11:27:12 AM
Ima10urin8 its like going to war with a retarded person as your squad leader. She might have some fight in her, but who is she really going to hurt?

"You don't get out much, do you?"

/nothing is obscure on FARK
//I wish the AF had been first, but her record is outstanding. Congratulations Gen. Dunwoody!
 
2008-07-25 11:27:57 AM
karnasaur: (Siting a credible source would be nice too.)

Google it ya lazy bastard.

BTW, this is the most phony shiat I have ever read sitting about 2/3rds down the article.

"Today, another glass ceiling has been shattered in our nation with the nomination of a woman to the rank of general for the first time in the history of America's armed forces," Clinton said in a statement June 23, when Dunwoody was nominated. "Lt. Gen. Ann Dunwoody's nomination not only reflects her own remarkable achievements as an officer, but also serves as a symbol of the tremendous strides by women who serve this country in uniform."

I am glad a woman who rode coattails the entire portion of her career is commenting on this woman shattering the glass ceiling.
 
2008-07-25 11:28:25 AM
Shabash: She's not being paid to pack chutes. She's being paid to lead and supervise Army logistical experts, and she brings experience from command time as a CPT, LTC, a COL, a BG, and a MG. The badges she earned as a young officer are past marks of distinction, not what she does routinely now. They just signify she used to be an expert at it at one time.

More important than her rigger wings, she wears master parachutist wings. That means she's graduated from the US Army Jumpmaster school, which has a greater than 60% fail rate, and is utterly grueling, both mentally and physically. Those wings also mean she has at least 65 jumps, including 25 with a heavy rucksack between her legs, 4 at night, and 5 on mass tactical exercises.

In fact, she probably has MANY times more than that, considering she's been on jump status for 11 years (most of them in the 82nd Airborne Division). Thousands of paratroopers (the vast majority of whom are men) have put their life in her hands -- LITERALLY -- as she's inspected their parachutes and pushed them out the door of an aircraft 1200 feet up in the air.

Her 1-star command was in the 18th Airborne Corps, so you can damn well be sure she jumpmastered as recently as 6 years ago, kicking ass in her late 40s.


Too bad you wasted such an informative post on such an uninspired insult.
 
2008-07-25 11:31:16 AM
nuclear_asshat: karnasaur: (Siting a credible source would be nice too.)

Google it ya lazy bastard.

I did. I failed. Sorry, but my research methods are a few years out of date.
 
2008-07-25 11:32:30 AM
That's unfortunate for US Army Materiel Command. Really. Women in the Armed Forces, ESPECIALLY Officers always seem to be trying to prove something when no one else is. Leads to shiatty decisions.

women + Power = -(leadership)
 
2008-07-25 11:34:22 AM
Shabash: More important than her rigger wings, she wears master parachutist wings. That means she's graduated from the US Army Jumpmaster school, which has a greater than 60% fail rate, and is utterly grueling, both mentally and physically. Those wings also mean she has at least 65 jumps, including 25 with a heavy rucksack between her legs, 4 at night, and 5 on mass tactical exercises.

In fact, she probably has MANY times more than that, considering she's been on jump status for 11 years (most of them in the 82nd Airborne Division). Thousands of paratroopers (the vast majority of whom are men) have put their life in her hands -- LITERALLY -- as she's inspected their parachutes and pushed them out the door of an aircraft 1200 feet up in the air.

Her 1-star command was in the 18th Airborne Corps, so you can damn well be sure she jumpmastered as recently as 6 years ago, kicking ass in her late 40s.


Good info. Sounds like she's one of the good ones, which is unsurprising considering she probably had to be twice as good as any man in her peer group to even get her first star. I'll have to ask my Brother-in-law about her, since he's in the 18th.
 
2008-07-25 11:38:28 AM
This thread needs more pics of chicks in uniform!
 
2008-07-25 11:43:43 AM
Hero Tag?

For getting promoted?
 
2008-07-25 11:45:08 AM
karnasaur: Out of curiosity, does anyone know how many generals and admirals are in the US Military, and how many are female?

And for that matter, how many people are in the US Military, and how many are female?


"Today, women make up about 14 percent of the 1.4 million people on active duty in the military. More than 100 women have died in the conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan.

"But the number of women at the very top, while growing, remains small. In the Army, where women make up 14 percent of active duty personnel, they account for about 5 percent of the generals, according to Lt. Col. Anne Edgecomb, an Army spokeswoman. There are 15 one-star generals, three two-star generals and two three-star generals, including General Dunwoody."

Link is farked, but from NY Times story on June 30, "Commanding a Role for Women in the Military"
 
2008-07-25 11:47:33 AM
Shabash: "Commanding a Role for Women in the Military"

Thank you!
 
2008-07-25 11:49:08 AM
Dreamless: Hide your chickens: Congatulations, commander of the U.S. Army division of scrubbing the kitchen floor and making me a sandwich. Well done!

Oh, I get it. It's because she's a woman! That's why it's a joke. Women have traditionally been associated with domestic duties such as cleaning and preparing meals. So by referring to that, you are downplaying her military achievements and "putting her in her place." Very funny.


You must be male to have gotten that so quickly.
 
2008-07-25 11:49:57 AM
Idaho, Alaska.


smitty blew it.

 
2008-07-25 11:51:41 AM
jat26006: That's unfortunate for US Army Materiel Command. Really. Women in the Armed Forces, ESPECIALLY Officers always seem to be trying to prove something when no one else is.

Working in IT I would wager this is true of ANY male-dominated field. Only time will change this, once women are more equally represented they wont have the chip on their shoulder.

I would also wager that they feel they have to prove something because of the resistance they get from male counterparts, so it is the community that causes this mentality.
 
2008-07-25 11:53:38 AM
jst3p: resistance they get from male counterparts, so it is the community that causes this mentality.

Out of all of the places I've worked, I have never seen this. Not once.
 
2008-07-25 11:54:56 AM
jst3p: Only time will change this, once women are more equally represented they wont have the chip on their shoulder.

I've never seen a CSM, male or female, who wasn't the most insufferable, assholic prick you could ever imagine.

An effective leader in the military IS most often a complete dick. If you don't get pissed off at the person above you on a daily basis, chances are they're not doing their job.
 
2008-07-25 11:57:46 AM
FuzzyNoNoseChimp: jst3p: resistance they get from male counterparts, so it is the community that causes this mentality.

Out of all of the places I've worked, I have never seen this. Not once.


What do you do?

I have seen it in IT, it is subtle but it is there. I also saw it at the architectural firm I did IT for. One of the best architects there was a woman but it seemed she had to try harder to impress anyone, clients or colleagues.
 
2008-07-25 12:13:53 PM
jst3p: What do you do?

I have seen it in IT, it is subtle but it is there. I also saw it at the architectural firm I did IT for. One of the best architects there was a woman but it seemed she had to try harder to impress anyone, clients or colleagues.


IT and Legal. Maybe I just don't see it because I tend to find most of the women I work with to be much more capable than the men that I work with.

What I do see, however, is women being more insecure with the decisions they make throughout they day. I don't see them working harder, but getting reassurance that their decision was the right one.
 
2008-07-25 12:21:22 PM
FuzzyNoNoseChimp: IT and Legal. Maybe I just don't see it because I tend to find most of the women I work with to be much more capable than the men that I work with.

I guess everyone has their own bias.
 
2008-07-25 12:24:30 PM
jst3p: I guess everyone has their own bias.

Yea. But I'll tell you what. I would feel a lot better having some of the women I've worked with handle any legal trouble I came in contact with, than some of the guys. I've always thought women are often more capable than men.
 
2008-07-25 12:42:58 PM
FuzzyNoNoseChimp: jst3p: I guess everyone has their own bias.

Yea. But I'll tell you what. I would feel a lot better having some of the women I've worked with handle any legal trouble I came in contact with, than some of the guys. I've always thought women are often more capable than men.


How is that any less "wrong" than saying "In general I find men to be more capable than women"?

They both sound like personal bias rather than fact to me.
 
2008-07-25 01:09:08 PM
She's still a poge!LOL

POGE, POGE, POGE!!!LOL
 
2008-07-25 01:24:12 PM
rubi_con_man: I will say this one time : THERE IS NO GLASS CELING.

There is only ... the 'mommy track'.

Seriously, less than 1% of men make it to executive level in their lifetime, and they don't have the option to become drop-out, erm, I mean stay-at-home mothers. For every executive smoking a cigar and swilling brandy in some exclusive social club, there are about 100,000 men with their noses to the grindstone and shoulder to the wheel putting in redonkulous hours in order to have the CHANCE to be that guy. It's like the number of bag men to drug kingpins.

Yes, this has two sides - because many many women decide to opt for this choice of life, many people with power view them as less viable in the long term for the soul-crushing amount of work it takes to get to that top level and so they miss out on promotions.

On the other hand, I think many many many of the best candidates to break the 'ceiling' simply opt for a more settled life with themselves as their own (co-?)bosses in a wholly more fulfilling and worthwhile endeavor - 50 years of working for IBM might get you a gold watch and a twice-raided pension scheme. Having three kids might change the world.


Well stated and grats to the new General.
 
2008-07-25 01:34:09 PM
At the level the US Army operates, combat experience is overrated. Logistics wins war -- end of story. If she's the best at the job, good for her.

Very few generals will ever be given the blank slate necessary to conduct a grand strategy of campaign. usually its a management job...coordinate the execution. Football is called a game of armies because its exactly like an army...9/10s of the time is spend practicing/preparing, vs actual execution.
 
2008-07-25 01:44:29 PM
www.smh.com.au

www.airforcetimes.com

Former Air Force SSgt Michelle Manhart approves, salutes her superior.
 
2008-07-25 01:52:52 PM
Is she qualified?

I have no idea.

But hit it I would.

/I got your four stars right here, baby
 
2008-07-25 02:40:58 PM
snoringtoad: Um I noticed he's looking at the back of her head.

Aaaa, you're no fun anymore.
 
2008-07-25 02:45:17 PM
Came for pictures of hot IDF chicks, leave disappointed.

/dnrtfa
 
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