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(Media Matters)   Ben Stein on Obama's convention speech: "Seventy-five-thousand people at an outdoor sports palace, well, that's something the Fuehrer would have done"   ( mediamatters.org) divider line
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18755 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Jul 2008 at 3:21 PM (9 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2008-07-25 01:55:23 AM  
About the whole Obama Birth Certificate thingie and him not being a born US citizen, there was a LOT of smoke - because someone in the Obama camp posted a supposed copy which looked to be a photoshop. That set off the conspiracy nutters.

But several of the more level-headed Rightie Bloggers have cautioned their readers NOT to become invested in this rumor. It's analogous to the Italian yellow-cake papers brouhaha, presence of forgeries in favor of [A] does not constitute solid evidence in favor of [not A]. It just means someone was a little TOO invested in their side.

That said, since in Hawaii normally only a person or his/her parents can access or authorize release of a that person's BC while he/she's still alive, Obama would have to authorize the release. He hasn't.


As for IQ's, 90 might be the average IQ of a particular college's football team - but hopefully not of the student body as a whole - most anyone of that IQ taking regular classes (not the football-track ones) without the benefit of "friendly" graders would be a D student or flunking out.

Unless you're talking some sort of generational-norming here? I've read claims that average IQ is in general actually above our grand-parent's-time 100 because of better modern nutrition ANNNND that it's lower in different sub-groups because of worse modern education.

Remember always that the main thing IQ tests measure is the ability to take IQ tests.

Anyone have any good links on that subject to share?
 
2008-07-25 02:00:02 AM  
I revel in watching the right implode. They have become so confident that everyone is stupid, and will buy their bullshiat, that they have lost the control they once weilded. RIP Neocon facists. But make it a slow death, I do enjoy watching you burn so.
 
2008-07-25 02:06:06 AM  
danploon: I've got news for you folks. None of us are fit to touch Ben Stein's garment.

I disagree with him on ID, sort of, but that doesn't erase the fact he has more academic and life achievements than anyone here including myself.
. . AND IS A farkING IDIOT.

FTFY
 
2008-07-25 02:14:10 AM  
>Ace Attorney: bmasso:
You are also apparently an idiot.
The language spoken by the Nazis was not English, FYI.
Their party name was not in English either..

The correct term is Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei


Heh, the Welch mostly forget to put vowels in their words,
the Germans mostly forget to put spaces between their words.

I always love their tendency for run-on-words, even relatively short ones like oxygen being a concatenation of "sour" and "stuff" (based on an assumption on the taste of oxidized items).

Then there's words like.....

Donaudampfschifffahrtsgesellschaftskapitän = "Danube steamship company captain".
Geschwindigkeitsbegrenzung = speed limit
Hoechsgeschwindigkeitsbegrenzung = maximum speed limit
 
2008-07-25 02:25:47 AM  
PAPASandBEER: BTW, that's the first time I've ever typed "President McCain," but you Farkers better get used to it, I'm afraid.

That made me giggle, thanks!
 
2008-07-25 02:34:19 AM  
Triaxis: Hell no. I'm merely pointing out that the dumb masses here who are fawning over Obama are in lock step with the Euro-socialists who want to see the US weaker in status.

Yes, because Bush has raised the status of the US in the worlds eyes to such a high level . . .
Weak trolling, try again please.
 
2008-07-25 02:41:54 AM  
bstud: a bunch of libs getting their panties in a bunch over a conservative comparing their candidate to Hitler...I think the whole Bush=Hitler thing goes on daily. Stop whining.

Yeah, it's not like Bush instituted laws that detain people for years without due process, or engages in preemptive wars, or spies on his countries own citizens without warrants, or commits treason by releasing a CIA operatives cover as a defence for his illegal oil war.
Yes, you could say my panties have gotten 'in a bunch' if I wore any.
 
2008-07-25 02:46:38 AM  
PAPASandBEER: It's going to come down to money, and Obama has pantloads of it.

Money that he raised through hard work, and donations- as opposed to money that your Daddy and his rich friends (or rich wife) give to continue to solidify their power.
"Obama is going win because he has more money!"
Obama is going to win because he is the far superior canidate.
 
2008-07-25 02:49:31 AM  
deeoh1: but it doesn't take that much money to be in that top 1%.

Oh, Bill Gates, what a comedian you are! What a side-splitter! HA-HA!
 
2008-07-25 02:52:32 AM  
SpacePoet: Obama = Osama Bin Laden

Obama = Malcom X

Obama = Lenin

Obama = Hitler...

/ah, the smell of desperation
//next, Obama = Morlock

SpacePoet for the win! Checkmate, my good Sir, checkmate!
 
2008-07-25 03:10:43 AM  
Sorry, fail.

Humans have independant reasoning
Humans have independant personalities

But...

All Humans can be conditioned just like any other animal
All Humans share the same instinct, behavior traits and emotional platforms.
All Humans are killers with the ability of murder

The differences in humans is choice, which is very simple yes or no.
 
2008-07-25 03:12:30 AM  
aquanaut: Obama is going to win because he is the far superior candidate.

Yeah, that worked so well in '00 and '08.
 
2008-07-25 03:16:58 AM  
Obama's faults are nowhere near George W. Bush's... and Bush got elected twice.

Calm down, fundies. You've had your turn, and you messed up.

Now go sit at the kid's table while the adults talk.
 
2008-07-25 03:17:41 AM  
A quarter century ago -- that's 25 years for you people with the math trouble -- a minor-league Nixon Administration hack called Benjamin Stein got a few parts in teen-ager movies because he was such a typical asshole idiot.

Somehow, and briefly, his agents turned that into a goofy quiz show on a new cable channel. And then he was canceled, and should've been forgotten.

Instead, he reinvented himself as the OLD Nixon lap dog, and began writing shiatty op-eds for the likes of National Review Online. Oh, and he did some commercials for eye drops.

He's a coont. Ignore him and he'll die.
 
2008-07-25 04:20:27 AM  

Man On Pink Corner: aquanaut: Obama is going to win because he is the far superior candidate.

Yeah, that worked so well in '00 and '08.


The joke goes over the center fielder's head for a RBI double
 
2008-07-25 04:53:20 AM  
In all fairness, he just said it was something "the Fuehrer" would have done. I mean, he could be talking about any Fuehrer, right?


/is that really the right spelling of that word? Anyone know a little German?
 
2008-07-25 07:37:43 AM  

Cerebral Ballsy: No way can the average college student have a 90 I.Q. That's like, construction worker territory. Mine's 138, and I don't even think I'm all that smart.

The reason why a person like you would think the average IQ is 115 is because the average person you socialize with DOES have an IQ of 115. Very below average people aren't hangin out at the mall, they're off in special needs homes and such. So you just don't see them.


I'd just like to chime in that I.Q. should not be considered a measure of worth. I took a WAIS III I.Q. test and my I.Q. is in the top 5%. But before you go thinking I'm bragging about my high I.Q. I should let you know I was committed to a mental hospital at the time of my testing. High I.Q. is just a side effect of OCD. All the smarts in the world, unable to do anything with it because my brain is stuck in a feedback loop. Very frustrating.


But back to the article. It's pretty sad to see someone as smart as Ben Stein being so bloody stupid.
 
2008-07-25 07:56:49 AM  
for Ben Stein
 
2008-07-25 08:01:18 AM  

aquanaut: deeoh1: but it doesn't take that much money to be in that top 1%.

Oh, Bill Gates, what a comedian you are! What a side-splitter! HA-HA!


I like how you took just part of my post to make a joke. Nice. The point I was making is that it doesn't take Bill Gates-type money to be in the top 1% of earners. According to the IRS's numbers, it's an AGI above $388k. That's a very good income anywhere in the US, but you're certainly not driving Bugattis and shopping for Gulfstreams.
 
2008-07-25 08:07:34 AM  

Theaetetus: deeoh1: It's all relative, but it doesn't take that much money to be in that top 1%.

You earn more than $700 thousand, post-tax?


Actually it's above $388,800 according to the IRS. And yes, I did the last few years. This year I won't. I sold my part of the software company and am no longer working there. I'm now focusing on the next venture and I won't be taking a salary for the next year or so.
 
2008-07-25 08:46:30 AM  
doublesecretprobation 2008-07-24 01:09:23 PM
wtf stein? giving a speech in front of 75k people = hitler?


He's not incorrect. Quit trying to spin what he said into something else.

Especially given the fact that Bush haters regularly make that comparison in an evil and obviously flawed manner.
 
2008-07-25 09:57:42 AM  

dave2198: Obama's faults are nowhere near George W. Bush's... and Bush got elected twice.


Maybe because Bush's faults were nowhere near Gore's or Kerry's.

/Never mind Florida. Why didn't Gore win Tenneseee?
 
2008-07-25 10:21:18 AM  

re-elect_jimmy_carter: Man On Pink Corner: Every time McCain opens his mouth, it sounds like he's throwing a boxing match.

spit and sweat fly all over the place until someone loses consciousness?


I LOL'ed. :D
 
2008-07-25 10:38:03 AM  

Nestea Plunge: LordPistachio: but it is incredibly naive to think that you're doing anything other than choosing the lesser of two evils just like in every election.

You hate America or something? Why not start a viable 3rd party instead of biatching about the two parties we have?


Madison warned about factions in Federalist 10. He was ahead of his time, jumping on that hating America bandwagon in the 18th Century.

But seriously, the two parties have made it so its an absolute PITA to get on the ballot, attend debates, etc. It's set up to protect incumbency and prevent additional competition.

/Did the 3rd party thing back in the 90s.
//Not Ross Perot.
 
2008-07-25 10:38:44 AM  

Cyberluddite: DarthBrooks: Listening to the Berlin speech right now. Obama said . . .

You know who else gave big speeches in Berlin?


JFK?
 
2008-07-25 10:42:39 AM  

bmasso: Not THIS shiat again.

The NATIONAL SOCIALIST PARTY,
a.k.a. The Nazis
a.k.a. The German People's Worker's Party.

(1) Criticize rampant Capitalism as decadent and unfair to workers.
(2) Guarantee gov't aid/pensions to the elderly.
(3) Universal Health Care.
(4) Emphasize the importance of the Collective over the Individual.
(5) Prior to taking power, attack competing socialism variants.
(6) Once in power, outlaw ALL competing political parties.
(7) Genocide.

The Soviets Communists, the German Nazis, they both had all the above in common.

The Nazis called themselves "socialist", they took initial inspiration from Mussolini, who also called himself a "socialist", they had numerous socialist planks in their party platform, they instituted numerous socialist programs when in office.

The apologists for socialism who want to quarantine Nazism from it's root stock because of it's murderous legacy in general or it's murderous legacy towards other folks calling themselves "socialists" in particular can only do so by ignoring or lying about the similar deeds of the Communists. Saying "Socialists don't mass-murder" or "Socialists don't kill other Socialists" is utter nonsense - as the survivors of the Gulags or the surviving Trotskyites could have told you.


I know the thread's dead and all but OH MY FARKING GOD!

I guess I gave you all too much credit in assuming you were aware of your faulty historical representations. But, no, apparently at least some of you ACTUALLY beleive your shiat!

READ!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism (new window)

While you're at least correct about about there being some common elements between the fascistic regime of the Nazis and communism; and you are right that they used the term socialism in their name, socialism was NOT in fact their defining ideology, only their self claimed label. Just as I'm sure you will agree that the Democratic party is not, strictly speaking, democratic. They BRANDED THEMSELVES fer krysts sake, you don't just take that as as the god's honest truth and run with that, you have to use your brain and actually look at the policies.

Nationalism and totalitarianism are what defined Nazism not social egalitarianism and popular worker rule, you idiot!

The Nazi party was in fact explicitly anti-Communist:

Your first flaw is in assuming that american-right neo-liberal economic policy has always been the purview of conservative right-wing ideology when in fact right wing conservatism has most always been centrally defined by authoritarian centralization. Admittedly this is something that also defines Communism (with a capital C, you might note) and all totalitarian politics on the left or right. This also brings us to the down right moronic equiviocation that people on the right always make between socialism and Communism

F.A.Hayek writes, in The Road to Serfdom that modern totalitarian movements, including fascism and Communism, have common philosophical roots both springing from the opposition to liberalism.

Again people FARKING READ before opening you mouths and you won't be such ignorant drags on society.
 
2008-07-25 10:45:31 AM  

kellyshannon: I'd give my left tit for would be to go back in time


Um, can we see the aforementioned left tit?

I am not a perv or anything you see, more of a connoisseur.
 
2008-07-25 11:28:32 AM  

Thorndyke Barnhard: It is a fact that Fascism, which describes Hitler's and Nazi ideology, is an extreme right-wing phenomenon.

Now the right tries to label leftists and liberals as Fascists?

It's really amazing that a human can utter such complete lies with such conviction and continue to not commit suicide.


The whole left/right wing concept obscures more than it explains. It's based on seating tendencies in the 18th Century French Assembly. A line with liberals*/communists/Democrats on the left end (negative infinity?) and convervatives/fascists/Republicans on the right end doesn't explain things very well. If you're going to stick with a linear model, rotate it 90 degress, and place "Slavery" at the bottom, and "Freedom" at the top. Now Hitler and Stalin are close to each other on the political spectrum.

*liberal may not mean what you think it means. Check it out in a good dictionary.
 
2008-07-25 11:30:55 AM  

Learned Louisianian: dartben: patrick767:So... FDR was bad and also kind of like Hitler? FDR? He's our longest serving President and still widely considered one of our best. Seriously, wtf?

FDR should be a middle of the pack President at best. He trampled on the Constitution like no one's business. I'll take the Roosevelt on Mt. Rushmore any day of the week and twice on Sunday over FDR.

Agreed. Teddy was the kind of president that current and future administrations could stand to learn from. We certainly need another teddy. Or at least another Nixon.


Martin Van Buren.
 
2008-07-25 11:39:06 AM  

Marla Singer's Laundry: Why the freakf--k can't we find out what Mr. Hand thinks, as long as we're listening to high-school comedy character actors? At least he never worked for Nixon.


Yes, but he was an illegal alien.

/from Mars.
 
2008-07-25 11:55:14 AM  

SpectroBoy: Such a mean old man
Such a bitter old man

Stein: Science leads you to killing people.


Just look at the people who died on the old Star Trek.

Why is there a toll-free number? Was that in the film?
 
2008-07-25 12:02:13 PM  

re-elect_jimmy_carter: bline21: I Said: Mearen: Whatever the case, I don't think the media should be electing our next president.

They aren't. Pay attention. I know the world moves pretty fast, but you really should make an honest effort to keep up.

You sure about that?

The United States has one of the largest populations of sheeple living within its borders.

i know you people think that the word sheeple is clever, but it isnt.

/just sayin


Was Pink Floyd's Animals political allegory?
 
2008-07-25 12:09:50 PM  

bmasso: But several of the more level-headed Rightie Bloggers have cautioned their readers NOT to become invested in this rumor. It's analogous to the Italian yellow-cake papers brouhaha, presence of forgeries in favor of [A] does not constitute solid evidence in favor of [not A]. It just means someone was a little TOO invested in their side.

That said, since in Hawaii normally only a person or his/her parents can access or authorize release of a that person's BC while he/she's still alive, Obama would have to authorize the release. He hasn't.


Yes. He HAS. Why don't you just peruse through Obama's "fight the bullsh*t" website before you post your chain emails, so you don't get called out for being an idiot on Fark?


His birth certificate (new window)
 
2008-07-25 12:25:01 PM  
Libbynomore2

People compare Bush's murderous policies to hitler. Comparing someone to hitler because they're popular is idiotic, but you far-right wingnuts can't see that.
 
2008-07-25 12:29:41 PM  

Lionel Mandrake:
Really? FAR LEFT CABAL??

I hope you're joking, because that terminology only evokes laughter.


That response is typical of somebody who agrees with them. You simply can't see the forest from the trees to understand how corrupt they are.

Yeah, well, that's like, your opinion, man. And I generally agree...but if it manages to get an entrenched, moribund party to reevaluate it's platform (and, in the case of the GOP) jettison it's disgusting and un-American link to religious fanatics, then it CAN be a good thing.

In other words, if getting a good ass-kicking makes the party stop kissing Robertsonian/Dobsonian ass, and actually READ THE FKN CONSTITUTION, then it will be worth a cycle or two of one party rule.

Let's not forget that 7 of the 9 SC Justices are Republican appointees...it will be a long damn time before the three branches are exclusively democratic...they were exclusively Republican for some 6 years...the worst 6 years this nation has been through in my lifetime, and one of the worst 6-year stretches ever.


You're trying to have it both ways. First, you say that One-party rule under Obama is a good thing yet when I call you on it, you backtrack and agree with my position (that one-party rule is never a good thing).

You have no argument with me on how the Evangelicals have hijacked the party. These rigid morons who only cast their vote on two issues (abortion and gays) have totally wrecked the GOP for the current time. However, there's the same kind of rigidity on the Democratic side. There are people who hate Joseph Lieberman just because he's pro-Iraq War. Even though they agree with him on EVERYTHING else, there's too stupid to consider the bigger picture.

Anyway...you're obviously a Democratic stooge since you say you'd be comfortable with them running the entire government---while in the same breath bemoaning the fact that Repubs had too much power. NOBODY SHOULD HAVE THAT MUCH POWER....PERIOD!!!! We need to draw back the power of the federal governmnet, not say that it's bad when it's the *insert party name here* but good when it's *insert party name here*. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

You can't have it both ways. Either you're against one-party rule or you're not.
 
2008-07-25 12:43:00 PM  

mad_prophet_tx: The whole left/right wing concept obscures more than it explains. It's based on seating tendencies in the 18th Century French Assembly. A line with liberals*/communists/Democrats on the left end (negative infinity?) and convervatives/fascists/Republicans on the right end doesn't explain things very well. If you're going to stick with a linear model, rotate it 90 degress, and place "Slavery" at the bottom, and "Freedom" at the top. Now Hitler and Stalin are close to each other on the political spectrum.

*liberal may not mean what you think it means. Check it out in a good dictionary.


I said it myself that Communism and Fascism share authoritarianism.

I've studied politics and I'm well aware of the political spectrum's history and origins and while it is not the best exclusive means of describing political ideologies it has some use and validity. Enough that it's meanings have been succesfully conveyed by industry and scholars for over 200 years.

Fascism is a mainly right-wing/conservative phenomenon.
 
2008-07-25 01:30:55 PM  
"If only one parent is a U.S. Citizen at the time of one's birth, that parent must have resided in the United States for minimum ten years, five of which must be after the age of 16."

WTF law is that? The one your wacko conspiracy theorist friends made up and you are parroting?

According to US Code, Title 8, Section 1401 the following people are "citizens of the United States at birth:

* Anyone born inside the United States
* Any Indian or Eskimo born in the United States, provided being a citizen of the U.S. does not impair the person's status as a citizen of the tribe
* Any one born outside the United States, both of whose parents are citizens of the U.S., as long as one parent has lived in the U.S.
* Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year and the other parent is a U.S. national
* Any one born in a U.S. possession, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year
* Any one found in the U.S. under the age of five, whose parentage cannot be determined, as long as proof of non-citizenship is not provided by age 21
* Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is an alien and as long as the other parent is a citizen of the U.S. who lived in the U.S. for at least five years (with military and diplomatic service included in this time)
* A final, historical condition: a person born before 5/24/1934 of an alien father and a U.S. citizen mother who has lived in the U.S.
 
2008-07-25 01:42:18 PM  
I love it how excited everyone gets each Presidential election season, and how it's all so new and wonderful, and OUR guy is not like YOUR guy. Your guy is a crook, but OUR guy is visionary and saintly and would never be like a Nixon or a Clinton.

Then a few years pass, and we discover, whether Republican or Democrat, the guy we swore was going to be different than the previous crooked, self-absorbed, stupid, narcissistic idiot with delusions of grandeur is actually EXACTLY like him.

Politics attract people who crave power above all else. Lose your illusions. There are no good politicians. They all suck, and they all want to hurt you while making you think they're helping you. Open your damned eyes America.
 
2008-07-25 02:27:29 PM  

wh0mprat: fotojenic: wh0mprat: Seigneur: How many people do you know that only make 10K per year?

What does that have to do with anything?

I was going to say the same thing, but I didn't want to interrupt your conversation.

That's damned decent of you, man. Damn decent.

what gets me about this sort of argument is that my learned friedn Seigneur is actually arguing aginst his own interests in the pursuit of an ideological pipe dream.

Oh, I'd support a Fair Tax, but put a $50,000 deduction on it. Oh, wait. Now it's a progressive tax. Might as well leave everything the way it is. A regressive tax is not fair, no matter what marketing team you hire to sell this libertarian pie in the sky 'Fair Tax'.


I think that was Republican Dick Archer's idea, or at least he was the one who got the most mileage out of it. The "Flat Tax" won't work for this very reason. It won't be flat for very long.

A lot of different tax schemes could work, be it a capitation, straight percentage (neutral), or a graduated system. It's import ant not to hit least wealthy too hard (some local property taxes have done this to old folks), or to stifle savings and investment with a high upper rate.

/The what curve? Anyone? Anyone?
//To obscure?
 
2008-07-25 02:49:40 PM  

toonz: Dear Mr. Stein,
It's not very nice to lump a person or persons into convenient little demonized groups to push your political ageda. It gets people antsy and the next thing you know they're running around, breaking glass in the night and building work camps for the people who've been demonized.

and the tattoos aren't even all that cool.

so... you know... maybe you shouldn't do that.. People might confuse you for someone else.


Kisses.


St. Otto of the Nazarene?

/Always look on the bright side of life.
 
2008-07-25 03:08:43 PM  

Thorndyke Barnhard: F.A.Hayek writes, in The Road to Serfdom that modern totalitarian movements, including fascism and Communism, have common philosophical roots both springing from the opposition to liberalism.


Which liberalism are we speaking of, Rush Limbaugh's or the one Hayek wrote about in London in 1944?
 
2008-07-25 03:21:04 PM  
Thorndyke Barnhard:

I said it myself that Communism and Fascism share authoritarianism.

Fascism is a mainly right-wing/conservative phenomenon.


I saw your earlier posting. It took me a while to get to page 16. For me, the left/right is confusing. The present day conservatives have little in common with pre-WWII paleoconservative. I've also noticed the political left becoming more and more authoritarian.
 
2008-07-25 03:55:28 PM  
Ben Stein, usually seems to make these statements when he has been out of the limelight for a while.

R/D IF ALL they would do is stick to their actual beliefs BOTH can be honest and good presidents, it is when they get taken over by those that have specific agendas is when the really go off the rails.

As a PERSON I like Mccain for all the good stuff ha has and wants to do, the problem is that with the supremes having a turnover this session (even though the ruling was flawed) there still needs to be those that will keep not only abortion/ but all rights "free" and since those put there this time have said (before nominated of course) that they would love to overturn it-"bad law" etc.

Obama is more palatable to me as a person since he will be looking for a way out of Iraq and BACK INTO AFGHANISTAN.
And anyone who thinks that the 16mth IDEA will not get lengthened out to probably 2 years, unless things stay relatively smooth is not seeing the realities, and it is NOT a flip-flop it is getting all the info that he can, plus things that he does not have the intel on right now and will not unless he wins in November
 
2008-07-25 04:18:53 PM  
Cerebral Ballsy: bmasso: But several of the more level-headed Rightie Bloggers have cautioned their readers NOT to become invested in this rumor. It's analogous to the Italian yellow-cake papers brouhaha, presence of forgeries in favor of [A] does not constitute solid evidence in favor of [not A]. It just means someone was a little TOO invested in their side.

That said, since in Hawaii normally only a person or his/her parents can access or authorize release of a that person's BC while he/she's still alive, Obama would have to authorize the release. He hasn't.

Yes. He HAS. Why don't you just peruse through Obama's "fight the bullsh*t" website before you post your chain emails, so you don't get called out for being an idiot on Fark?

His birth certificate (new window)


You really think a LOW-REZ image of a BC with parts blacked-out is "releasing" it?
One with no visible sign of the impressed/embossed seal that's required to be official?
Huh.

Your standards then are a tad lower than gov't agencies, THEY require a "true, original copy".

//Again, NOT saying he's not a US citizen.

//Just saying this low-rez, blacked-out, unusable for official purposes version ain't cutting it.
//This rumor is bunk, but you can't kill it with something unusable as an official doc.
//If he becomes president (very likely) i HOPE he and his people are more competent in defending the US than they are in defending the candidate. Just sayin', here.
//A higher-rez image and/or a link to an article by a reporter allowed to hold a "truem original copy" would squash this "smear" in a New York minute. Or even a Chicago one.

//BTW, a lot of of the buzz about this originated in the Clinton Camp.
//Like how it's now portrayed as "a right-wing smear" in your link. It is to laugh.
 
2008-07-25 04:34:45 PM  
mad_prophet_tx: Thorndyke Barnhard:

I said it myself that Communism and Fascism share authoritarianism.

Fascism is a mainly right-wing/conservative phenomenon.


I saw your earlier posting. It took me a while to get to page 16. For me, the left/right is confusing. The present day conservatives have little in common with pre-WWII paleoconservative. I've also noticed the political left becoming more and more authoritarian.



You totally ignored the part of the linked definition which talked about fascism also being "anti-conservative". While managing to comprehend the part that labeled it "anti-socialist" whilst ignoring my pointed out example of SOCIALISTS being "anti-socialist" vs. other Socialists.

Fascism is not a ideology in the Left/Right way of things so much as it is a method/viewpoint of governance. Lefties post-WW II like to use the terms Fascist and Right-Wing as interchangeable widgets in their verbal toolboxes, but even your linked article point out that classical (Italian) Fascism was founded by Socialists who differed from classical Socialism mainly in spurning the concept of inevitable Class Warfare. Indeed, the article itself points out that prior to WW II revealing so much of the dark underbelly of Fascism, it wasn't even regarded as a pejorative term as it is now. The Left hailed it's anti-privilege and anti-conservative aspects.

So we are in modern times repeatedly prone to see Left-Wing authoritarianism defended by those pretending that it's only Fascism when THE OTHER GUYS do it.
 
2008-07-25 04:58:43 PM  
CRINKLEFISH
crinklefish:
If you don't tax evenly, you enoucrage people to not work at all / as hard because then they'd get taxed. I might actually drop some work to another eomployee because if I make a bit more, my bracket changes and I suddenly take home less than if I earned less overall.

You have not a clue. Everybody from Bill Gates to my bodega man pays the same percentage of income tax on the first X thousands of dollars they make (the lowest bracket). My bodega man might not make it into the next bracket, but even if he did, and every dollar earned in that bracket is taxed a little bit more, but is still taxed at the same rate as dollar earned by Bill Gates. The dollars earned in the next bracket are taxed a bit more, and so on, and so on. There is no scenario by which earning more pre-Federal Income Tax money would result in a change to the rate of Federal Income Tax you paid for your first X thousand earned.

I hope I made that clear, but I doubt it.
 
2008-07-25 05:16:19 PM  

bmasso: You totally ignored the part of the linked definition which talked about fascism also being "anti-conservative".


My senility must be taking over. Can you please let me know the timestamp for the message I missed?

I don't like the left/liberal/Democrat -- right/conservative/Republican spectrum. It obscures more than it explains.

I prefer Ludwig von Mises definition of Socialism of the German Pattern.
 
2008-07-25 05:53:40 PM  
cbc.caView Full Size


It's amazing the size crowd free beer, brats, and rock bands will draw in Germany.

Oh yeah, and some guy who was there as a "citizen of the world" and not an American presidential candidate too.
 
2008-07-26 12:25:09 AM  
What do we have here.
A socialist
In Deutschland
who has spoken out against the troops
people with bibles
people with guns
his best pal of 20 years has been spewing hatred about a single group of countrymen being responsible for all social and economic evils

And he is promising some kind of generalized change that he cannot share until he gets into office

Yup
 
2008-07-26 04:01:48 AM  
Wait.

Obama's mother's name was STANLEY??????

"Stanley Ann Dunham", according to the birth certificate. And it's not some last name first name deal, because his father's is ordered "Barack Hussein Obama".
 
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