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(Marketwatch)   "The U.S. has become a socialist economy." Earth to Meekus, it has been since 1929. Shhhh... don't wake zombie Ayn Rand   (marketwatch.com) divider line 173
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1993 clicks; posted to Business » on 21 Jul 2008 at 10:50 PM (6 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2008-07-21 10:22:22 PM
OW!!!!
 
2008-07-21 10:29:38 PM
"The truth is, the best answer for most adults is: "You've lost a hell of a lot of money in the market under the grand conservative ideology the past eight years.""

Ouch

.
 
2008-07-21 10:33:05 PM
Who is John Galt?
 
2008-07-21 10:35:47 PM
Objectivism is a nice theory until you realize someone has to clean toilets.
 
2008-07-21 10:39:10 PM
eddyatwork: Objectivism is a nice theory until you realize someone has to clean toilets.

Robots.
 
2008-07-21 10:40:34 PM
shanrick: eddyatwork: Objectivism is a nice theory until you realize someone has to clean toilets.

Robots.


Mexicans.
 
2008-07-21 10:42:15 PM
Weaver95:

Thanks to our socialist educational system, in a few years the Mexicans will be hiring our public school gradjits to clean their toilets.
 
2008-07-21 10:46:04 PM
Capitalist1: Weaver95:

Thanks to our socialist educational system, in a few years the Mexicans will be hiring our public school gradjits to clean their toilets.


thanks to our public education system, the only jobs our 'graduates' will be qualified for WILL BE cleaning toilets.
 
2008-07-21 10:47:13 PM
I clean toilets so I'm getting a kick out your replies.
 
2008-07-21 10:48:44 PM
Weaver95:

If using toilets haven't been deemed a paternalistic, Euro-centric tool of imperialist idocrtination and symbol of the inescapable human despoiling of nature.
 
2008-07-21 10:55:21 PM
eddyatwork: Objectivism is a nice theory until you realize someone has to clean toilets.

Actually if the person was really good at cleaning the toilets and enjoyed his work without giving into some sort of union that degraded his work, Ayn Rand would have no problem with it.
 
2008-07-21 11:02:19 PM
MyRandomName: eddyatwork: Objectivism is a nice theory until you realize someone has to clean toilets.

Actually if the person was really good at cleaning the toilets and enjoyed his work without giving into some sort of union that degraded his work, Ayn Rand would have no problem with it.


Now there's a utopian result.
 
2008-07-21 11:04:37 PM
Solon Isonomia: MyRandomName: eddyatwork: Objectivism is a nice theory until you realize someone has to clean toilets.

Actually if the person was really good at cleaning the toilets and enjoyed his work without giving into some sort of union that degraded his work, Ayn Rand would have no problem with it.

Now there's a utopian result.


Some people are destined to reach the stars, some people are destined to scrub toilets. Welcome to the real world.
 
2008-07-21 11:09:08 PM
Weaver95: Some people are destined to reach the stars, some people are destined to scrub toilets. Welcome to the real world.

Agreed, but MyRandomName's hypo is about as likely as the toilet cleaner's chances of being the first astronaut on Mars.
 
2008-07-21 11:09:36 PM
MyRandomName: eddyatwork: Objectivism is a nice theory until you realize someone has to clean toilets.

Actually if the person was really good at cleaning the toilets and enjoyed his work without giving into some sort of union that degraded his work, Ayn Rand would have no problem with it.


And if a CEO was really good at exploiting toilet cleaners so they worked in unsafe conditions and earned barely enough to live, she'd have no problem with it either.
 
2008-07-21 11:14:42 PM
I make toilet cleaning Mexican robots, so I'm really getting a kick out of these replies.
 
2008-07-21 11:16:14 PM
The American economy is growing, people are getting jobs, it's robust, and we've never seen this growth ever before. I don't know about you guys, but the economy is growing just as Bush and McCain are saying. It's the media and Obama that's being pessimistic towards the economy.

You guys are being fooled.
 
2008-07-21 11:18:43 PM
No, only losses are socialized. Profits, not so much
 
2008-07-21 11:19:07 PM
Funk Brothers: The American economy is growing,

WHARRGARBL

people are getting jobs,

WHARRGARBL

it's robust, and

WHARRGARBL

we've never seen this growth ever before.

WHARRGARBL

I don't know about you guys, but the economy is growing just as Bush and McCain are saying.

WHARRGARBL

It's the media and Obama that's being pessimistic towards the economy.

You guys are being fooled.


WHARRGARBL
 
2008-07-21 11:21:05 PM
Everything is alright. The economy is fine. Remain calm.
 
2008-07-21 11:21:37 PM
We're socialist? I'm confused, which major sectors of the economy are owned by the government?
 
2008-07-21 11:27:41 PM
DamnYankees: I'm confused, which major sectors of the economy are owned by the government?

Finance, Housing, Military and Health Care.

Do you need graphs or charts?
 
2008-07-21 11:27:49 PM
eddyatwork: Objectivism is a nice theory until you realize someone has to clean toilets.

I cleaned portable toilets for two summers in college. Made tons of money (for a college student) and had a great boss. Those two things made up for the fact that I was cleaning shiat.
 
2008-07-21 11:30:46 PM
NewportBarGuy: Finance, Housing, Military and Health Care.

Health care is owned by the government? My mom, a doctor, is not a government employee.

I don't know what you mean when you say "housing" is owned by the government.

The military is a fundamental part of the government, and its not socialist.

Finance, again, you need to be more specific. Investment bankers and whatnot are not government employees.
 
2008-07-21 11:32:36 PM
TaGirl_Keri: No, only losses are socialized. Profits, not so much

/points at nose
 
2008-07-21 11:35:54 PM
DamnYankees: We're socialist? I'm confused, which major sectors of the economy are owned by the government?

Retirement funds and the mortgage industry. we're pondering adding health care to the list and probably a good bit of the remaining banking industry.

Yep. socialism at it's finest. thanks guys!
 
2008-07-21 11:37:00 PM
Funk Brothers: Everything is alright. The economy is fine. Remain calm.

not even you are this stupid. So I must conclude that this is an attempted troll.
 
2008-07-21 11:37:03 PM
At all points betwixt Planet Earth and Planet Meekus, since 1929.
 
2008-07-21 11:39:34 PM
Weaver95: Retirement funds and the mortgage industry. we're pondering adding health care to the list and probably a good bit of the remaining banking industry.

Yep. socialism at it's finest. thanks guys!


I don't understand this. Universal health care isn't socialist. Even if the government provides health care to people, they are still going to be purchasing medical services from private doctors.

Saying UHC makes medicine socialist is like saying the Interstate Highway System makes construction socialist.
 
2008-07-21 11:39:34 PM
Weaver95: DamnYankees: We're socialist? I'm confused, which major sectors of the economy are owned by the government?

Retirement funds and the mortgage industry. we're pondering adding health care to the list and probably a good bit of the remaining banking industry.

Yep. socialism at it's finest. thanks guys!


Yeah, because deregulating banks was sooooo cool! Deregulating the energy market without oversight worked great too!

Listen, I agree that we must be careful about too much government, but every single 3 - 4 letter agency that Aynarchist Randroids hate came into being because corporations couldn't police themselves.

home.new.rr.com
 
2008-07-21 11:39:37 PM
Weaver95: Retirement funds and the mortgage industry. we're pondering adding health care to the list and probably a good bit of the remaining banking industry.

IIRC, jumbo mortgages deal have/had far less contact with the government than your standard mortgage... and if retirement funds were truly socialized, there wouldn't be 401ks, IRAs, and the wide variety of tax breaks for independent investment.
 
2008-07-21 11:41:09 PM
DamnYankees: Health care is owned by the government? My mom, a doctor, is not a government employee.

Wow... We're talking about plurality. Is that word too big for you?

DamnYankees: don't know what you mean when you say "housing" is owned by the government.

Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, FHA, Veterans Affairs, HUD. Clear enough?

DamnYankees: The military is a fundamental part of the government, and its not socialist.

It's 25% 35% of the budget. That is a social cost. Hence, part of socialism. We pay for security of ourselves and other nations.

DamnYankees: Finance, again, you need to be more specific. Investment bankers and whatnot are not government employees.

Do I really need to explain this? Don't you read the Sunday paper? Ever? OK... Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, Halliburton, General Dynamics, Lehman Brothers, JPMorgan, Citigroup, Goldman Sachs, Merrill Lynch, E*Trade, Raytheon, Bank of America, Wachovia, Washington Mutual, Sovereign Bancorp...

Do you even have any idea how far in the shiatter we are?

We always extend credit to every company that asks for it. It's the America Way.

Are you high, man?
 
2008-07-21 11:43:50 PM
NewportBarGuy: Do I really need to explain this? Don't you read the Sunday paper? Ever? OK... Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, Halliburton, General Dynamics, Lehman Brothers, JPMorgan, Citigroup, Goldman Sachs, Merrill Lynch, E*Trade, Raytheon, Bank of America, Wachovia, Washington Mutual, Sovereign Bancorp...

Those are examples of Corporate Welfare. Save the big corporation because if we don't we're doomed. DOOMED!
 
2008-07-21 11:44:01 PM
NewportBarGuy: Wow... We're talking about plurality. Is that word too big for you?

It's not too big, but I don't understand what you mean in this context.

NewportBarGuy: Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, FHA, Veterans Affairs, HUD. Clear enough?

That's a mixed bag. The first two are not government agencies, the FHA, VA, and HUD are. Again, what is the 'housing' industry. What percentage of homes in America does the government own?

NewportBarGuy: It's 25% 35% of the budget. That is a social cost. Hence, part of socialism. We pay for security of ourselves and other nations.

Anyone who includes the military when analyzing socialism is missing the point. Socialism nowadays refers to the cooption of industries by the government which we think should be private.

NewportBarGuy: Do I really need to explain this? Don't you read the Sunday paper? Ever? OK... Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, Halliburton, General Dynamics, Lehman Brothers, JPMorgan, Citigroup, Goldman Sachs, Merrill Lynch, E*Trade, Raytheon, Bank of America, Wachovia, Washington Mutual, Sovereign Bancorp...

How many of those are government agencies?
 
2008-07-21 11:46:42 PM
Objectivism is a nice theory until you realize someone has to clean toilets.

Why do you think we have liberal arts majors? Only so many burger-flipping jobs are available, and then I need a classics major to mow my lawn and wash my car....
 
2008-07-21 11:47:22 PM
dangelder: WHARRGARBL

Someone post the picture that goes with this. It makes me laugh every time.
 
2008-07-21 11:49:26 PM
Summarization of all arguments thus far:

Utterly unsupported conclusion Fannie Mae Freddie Mac unevidenced assertion Fannie Mae Freddie Mac unwarranted reduction Fannie Mae Freddie Mac dangerous hyperbole Fannie Mae Freddie Mac, man, don't you get it??? Fannie Mae Freddie Mac
 
2008-07-21 11:49:53 PM
Funk Brothers: The American economy is growing, people are getting jobs, it's robust, and we've never seen this growth ever before. I don't know about you guys, but the economy is growing just as Bush and McCain are saying. It's the media and Obama that's being pessimistic towards the economy.

Can I buy some of that pot from you? It must be all killer & no filler.
 
2008-07-21 11:50:28 PM
eddyatwork: dangelder: WHARRGARBL

Someone post the picture that goes with this. It makes me laugh every time.


teeka.fo.cx
 
2008-07-21 11:53:44 PM
DamnYankees: It's not too big, but I don't understand what you mean in this context.

Jesus... Medicare, Medicaid, Veterans Administration and WIC. The government dominates health care.

DamnYankees: That's a mixed bag. The first two are not government agencies, the FHA, VA, and HUD are. Again, what is the 'housing' industry. What percentage of homes in America does the government own?

I just gave you 75% of the housing market. What more do you want?

DamnYankees: Anyone who includes the military when analyzing socialism is missing the point. Socialism nowadays refers to the cooption of industries by the government which we think should be private.

Ummm... They are on the budget. That is an included social cost. I just don;t see how you don't understand this. We pay 30 cents of every dollar in taxes for the largest military in the world. That is a social cost.

DamnYankees: How many of those are government agencies?

Considering they all borrowed from the Fed Funds Window or got contracts from the federal government... All of them?


I'm not sure what point you are trying to prove.
 
2008-07-21 11:56:29 PM
NewportBarGuy: Jesus... Medicare, Medicaid, Veterans Administration and WIC. The government dominates health care.

They provide health insurance for lots of people. How is this socialist? I direct you to my road analogy.

NewportBarGuy: I just gave you 75% of the housing market. What more do you want?

You gave me a list of groups which are not all govermental. I repeat, what percentage of the homes in America are owned by the government?

NewportBarGuy: Ummm... They are on the budget. That is an included social cost. I just don;t see how you don't understand this. We pay 30 cents of every dollar in taxes for the largest military in the world. That is a social cost.

It's a social cost. It's not socialist. It's not complicated. Is all government spending socialist to you?

NewportBarGuy: Considering they all borrowed from the Fed Funds Window or got contracts from the federal government... All of them?

So borrowing money and having federal contracts now turns you into a federal agency?

NewportBarGuy: I'm not sure what point you are trying to prove.

That you're full of shiat.
 
2008-07-22 12:02:51 AM
Weaver95

Some people are destined to reach the starsbe azzholes, some people are destined to scrub toiletsclean up after azzholes. Welcome to the real world.
 
2008-07-22 12:03:23 AM
i thought DamnYankees was trolling, but now i realize he's just stupid.

derr... if we don't call it socialist then it isn't. what a moran

/sells damnyankees a case of brawndo
 
2008-07-22 12:04:43 AM
DamnYankees: They provide health insurance for lots of people. How is this socialist? I direct you to my road analogy.

It's provided by the state. I approve.

DamnYankees: You gave me a list of groups which are not all govermental. I repeat, what percentage of the homes in America are owned by the government?

75% Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are OFHEO's (new window)VA, HUD, FHA, State, Local Church groups... Until those mortgages are paid off, Uncle Sam owns almost all of that shiat.

DamnYankees: It's a social cost. It's not socialist. It's not complicated. Is all government spending socialist to you?

WHAT?! Ummm, no. But military spending that goes beyond national defense needs tends to be socialistic. That is pretty much all of our spending. We have not fixed a goddamn thing in our arsenal since 2002. I've seen them, they are empty.

DamnYankees: So borrowing money and having federal contracts now turns you into a federal agency?

Why are you being obtuse? Of course it does. You become beholden to their regulation and oversight. Hence, investment banks are being spanked like bad school children. The taxpayer has a stake in you, thus owning you.

DamnYankees: That you're full of shiat.

Right. I'm a dumbass twatwaffle who is running away in fear of your superior intellect.

Try again?
 
2008-07-22 12:05:46 AM
by the way I'm shorting the hell out of the market. We're never going to get this pandoras box closed. If you can't beat them and all that.
 
2008-07-22 12:08:34 AM
NewportBarGuy: It's provided by the state. I approve.

Yes, it is provided by the state. The state provides lots of things. This is not the same thing as socialism.

NewportBarGuy: 75% Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are OFHEO's (new window)VA, HUD, FHA, State, Local Church groups... Until those mortgages are paid off, Uncle Sam owns almost all of that shiat.

So for you, oversight and ownership are the same thing? I don't understand this. The government failed to regulate private mortgage lenders and they collapsed. That lack of oversight caused a massive crash. How is the current situation (1) socialist, or (2) worse?

NewportBarGuy: WHAT?! Ummm, no. But military spending that goes beyond national defense needs tends to be socialistic. That is pretty much all of our spending. We have not fixed a goddamn thing in our arsenal since 2002. I've seen them, they are empty.

I disagree with your definition of socialism, but I do agree we spend too much on our military.

NewportBarGuy: Why are you being obtuse? Of course it does. You become beholden to their regulation and oversight. Hence, investment banks are being spanked like bad school children. The taxpayer has a stake in you, thus owning you.

Wow. You've just entered some sort of weird libertarian-haze. Government oversight is not socialism. I don't know what kind of crazy world you live in where it is. Socialism is defined as government *ownership* of economic sectors. Oversight is setting down laws and principles that private owners have to follow. You see no difference?
 
2008-07-22 12:09:00 AM
I'm still waiting for this farktard to explain why, in a capitalist system, ANY corporation should need govt. financing?
 
2008-07-22 12:10:05 AM
DamnYankees: Socialism is defined as government *ownership* of economic sectors.

Socialism refers to any of various economic and political concepts of state or collective (i.e. public) ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods and services...

-- Wikipedia
 
2008-07-22 12:10:57 AM
dangelder: Socialism refers to any of various economic and political concepts of state or collective (i.e. public) ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods and services...

Thanks - notice ther phrase "ownership and administration". Oversight and regulation is different.
 
2008-07-22 12:14:02 AM
We're not really turning socialist anyway, if its a terminology issue, fascism gives a more accurate picture of what is happening.
 
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