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(LA Times)   Thomas Jefferson's Bible reveals that he could have REALLY used a word processor. Oh, and he didn't believe any of that miracle hocus-pocus either   (latimes.com) divider line 329
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18040 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Jul 2008 at 9:18 PM (6 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2008-07-21 12:15:34 AM
DeathByUngaBunga: Should I throw something?

Well it's only your stuff you can throw, so have at it.
 
2008-07-21 12:16:59 AM
Mr. Right: The other undeniable fact is that our Declaration of Independence and the Constitutional notions of equality before the law, the right of every individual to acquire and keep real property and pass that to his heirs are Judeo-Christian principles... Subjects are ruled by other men who may change the laws. Citizens sign up to be governed by a system of laws which do not change on a whim but by consent of the governed. In the Judeo-Christian belief system, those rules came from God.

You actually have no idea that you just contradicted yourself twice, do you?
 
2008-07-21 12:17:45 AM
Didn't he found the University of Virginia?

Isn't it ranked the best public university on the East Coast?
 
2008-07-21 12:18:04 AM
Clothes in bathroom


DamnYankees: bullock.: Do you think that having sex with underaged girls is ok, today?

Yes or no?

No. Are we done?


If I might interject...

No. There's nothing inherently "wrong" for an older man to have sex with a post-pubescent, but pre-age-of-majority girl. Most of us just don't do it, firstly:

Because we don't want to be cooling our heels with Pedo-bear and second:

Because girls of that age tend to be very, very annoying. Someone mentioned this earlier as well. My girlfriend's cousin, for instance, is not quite 14, but quite well developed in all the usual ways. She also tends to walk around with half of her previous meal smeared around her mouth, and still talks animatedly about "Rugrats in Paris". For most of us, that's our cue to step back, put it back in the oven, and wait for the timer to go off.

But, without quoting the entire "Grass on the Field" adage, Mother Nature seems to think it's just fine. Who I am to argue?
 
2008-07-21 12:25:14 AM
Holden Caulfield: Didn't he found the University of Virginia?

Isn't it ranked the best public university on the East Coast?


Yes, he did. U of V and UC Berkeley are basically tied for the best public school in America.

Though we all know Berkeley is better.

aagrajag: No. There's nothing inherently "wrong" for an older man to have sex with a post-pubescent, but pre-age-of-majority girl. Most of us just don't do it, firstly:

Well, he asked "is it ok". Considering it is illegal, I said no. If he asked if it was immoral I would have answered differently.
 
2008-07-21 12:26:57 AM
www.nobeliefs.com

//it was hijacked in 1955
 
2008-07-21 12:30:00 AM
/throws stale hunk of cheese at ZeroCorpse.
 
2008-07-21 12:30:35 AM
DamnYankees: Though we all know Berkeley is better.

Word up.
 
2008-07-21 12:34:37 AM
DamnYankees: Holden Caulfield: Didn't he found the University of Virginia?

Isn't it ranked the best public university on the East Coast?

Yes, he did. U of V and UC Berkeley are basically tied for the best public school in America.

Though we all know Berkeley is better.

aagrajag: No. There's nothing inherently "wrong" for an older man to have sex with a post-pubescent, but pre-age-of-majority girl. Most of us just don't do it, firstly:

Well, he asked "is it ok". Considering it is illegal, I said no. If he asked if it was immoral I would have answered differently.


fanbladesaresharp: DamnYankees: fanbladesaresharp: Try Alta Vista and Dogpile.

Try no. I've looked, there's very few references t it. One on all of google. In this thread it's been explained to me what it means. I didn't deny the nickname existed, but its hardly a well-known one.

Change your keywords in the search box.


Did you find it yet? With the server lapses you should have been able to.
 
2008-07-21 12:35:37 AM
From Thomas Jefferson ... to George W Bush.

What the HELL went wrong?
 
2008-07-21 12:37:34 AM
Wow. This thread got nasty fast and never looked back, didn't it? Being a Canadian atheist certainly lends itself to leading a less complicated and angry life.
 
2008-07-21 12:39:13 AM
ZeroCorpse

(Ben Franklin probably did it weekly.)

I thought he liked the older ladies?
 
2008-07-21 12:39:32 AM
Thomas Jefferson supported the theory of intelligent design. I think he would be surprised to learn that some people today consider his views unconstitutional.
 
2008-07-21 12:40:25 AM
SkinnyHead: Thomas Jefferson supported the theory of intelligent design. I think he would be surprised to learn that some people today consider his views unconstitutional.

If this was posted by anyone else, I would give a hearty congratulations on the satire.
 
2008-07-21 12:40:36 AM
Fr._Peter_Fitznuggly: Well, we do need less Leviticus and more Beatitudes.

img296.imageshack.us

"Blessed are the cheesemakers!"
 
2008-07-21 12:43:06 AM
"To the corruption of Christianity I am indeed opposed," he wrote to (Benjamin) Rush, "but not to the genuine precepts of Jesus himself."

I rarely ever post here, but I would like to say "Amen" and "This."

/In that order.
 
2008-07-21 12:43:32 AM
SkinnyHead: Thomas Jefferson supported the theory of intelligent design. I think he would be surprised to learn that some people today consider his views unconstitutional.

Fascinating, please tell us more.
 
2008-07-21 12:44:11 AM
Nicotinus: Wow. This thread got nasty fast and never looked back, didn't it? Being a Canadian atheist certainly lends itself to leading a less complicated and angry life.

Nah, you just get angry about different things. Like Quebec.
 
2008-07-21 12:44:30 AM
altinos: "Blessed are the cheesemakers!"

Whats so special about the cheesemakers?
 
2008-07-21 12:45:14 AM
Kensey:

You actually have no idea that you just contradicted yourself twice, do you?


You actually have no idea that your reading comprehension is zero, do you?
 
2008-07-21 12:47:14 AM
Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between church and State.
Thomas Jefferson
 
2008-07-21 12:51:25 AM
SkinnyHead
Thomas Jefferson supported the theory of intelligent design. I think he would be surprised to learn that some people today consider his views unconstitutional.

I have a sneaking suspicion that he would have changed his mind had he read Darwin's works during his lifetime.
 
2008-07-21 12:51:30 AM
SkinnyHead: Thomas Jefferson supported the theory of intelligent design. I think he would be surprised to learn that some people today consider his views unconstitutional.

Thomas Jefferson died when?

"On the Origin of Species" was published when?

You fail. Big time.
 
2008-07-21 12:55:23 AM
fanbladesaresharp: Nah, you just get angry about different things. Like Quebec.

Well, that's a fair point. Though it's hard to stay mad at the guys that gave us poutine.
 
2008-07-21 12:56:22 AM
Mr. Right, lets make this easy.

This is a Judeo-Christian value: Slaves, be obedient to those who are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in the sincerity of your heart, as to Christ. ~ Ephesians 6:5

This is product of Enlightenment Era Deists:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with inherent and inalienable rights; that among these, are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness; that to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed; that whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles, and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.

Do you see the difference?
 
2008-07-21 01:02:09 AM
Nicotinus: fanbladesaresharp: Nah, you just get angry about different things. Like Quebec.

Well, that's a fair point. Though it's hard to stay mad at the guys that gave us poutine.


...And super-hot womens. God, I love Montreal.
 
2008-07-21 01:07:35 AM
ninjakirby: Fascinating, please tell us more.

Certainly. Anti-Christian types like to cites Jefferson's 1823 letter to Adams where he talks about how the "day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter..." etc. You probably seen that before here on Fark. But they fail to read the rest of the letter where Jefferson lays out his theory of intelligent design:
"...I hold (without appeal to revelation) that when we take a view of the Universe, in it's parts general or particular, it is impossible for the human mind not to percieve and feel a conviction of design, consummate skill, and indefinite power in every atom of it's composition. The movements of the heavenly bodies, so exactly held in their course by the balance of centrifugal and centripetal forces, the structure of our earth itself, with it's distribution of lands, waters and atmosphere, animal and vegetable bodies, examined in all their minutest particles, insects mere atoms of life, yet as perfectly organised as man or mammoth, the mineral substances, their generation and uses, it is impossible, I say, for the human mind not to believe that there is, in all this, design, cause and effect, up to an ultimate cause, a fabricator of all things from matter and motion, their preserver and regulator while permitted to exist in their present forms, and their regenerator into new and other forms. We see, too, evident proofs of the necessity of a superintending power to maintain the Universe in it's course and order. Stars, well known, have disappeared, new ones have come into view, comets, in their incalculable courses, may run foul of suns and planets and require renovation under other laws; certain races of animals are become extinct; and, were there no restoring power, all existences might extinguish successively, one by one, until all should be reduced to a shapeless chaos. So irresistible are these evidences of an intelligent and powerful Agent that, of the infinite numbers of men who have existed thro' all time, they have believed, in the proportion of a million at least to Unit, in the hypothesis of an eternal pre-existence of a creator, rather than in that of a self-existent Universe." ~ Thomas Jefferson
Of course, if he tried to say something like that today, people would be calling him all sorts of names and trying to have his views banned from schools.
 
2008-07-21 01:08:57 AM
aagrajag: Nicotinus: fanbladesaresharp: Nah, you just get angry about different things. Like Quebec.

Well, that's a fair point. Though it's hard to stay mad at the guys that gave us poutine.

...And super-hot womens. God, I love Montreal.


Yeah, but there's some smoking hot girls in San Diego, too. With more predictable weather. Probably some in Montana too, but that would take a bit of searching.
 
2008-07-21 01:10:05 AM
SkinnyHead: Of course, if he tried to say something like that today, people would be calling him all sorts of names and trying to have his views banned from schools.

We hold your stupidity to be self-evident.
 
2008-07-21 01:13:45 AM
fanbladesaresharp: Yeah, but there's some smoking hot girls in San Diego, too. With more predictable weather. Probably some in Montana too, but that would take a bit of searching.

Ah, but the unpredictable weather is a plus. When a warm day comes round it's imperative to take advantage of it by taking off as many clothes as legally possible. Springtime in Canada. Nothing like it.
 
2008-07-21 01:14:54 AM
Mr. Right: Kensey:

You actually have no idea that you just contradicted yourself twice, do you?

You actually have no idea that your reading comprehension is zero, do you?


I comprehended what you wrote just fine, but you say that Judeo-Christian culture initiated the rule of law by the consent of the governed, then you turn right around in the very next sentence and say "those rules came from God". And in the Old Testament it's made abundantly clear that none of those laws are up for a vote. For that matter, in the New Testament Jesus lays down fewer dicta but they're just as strict.

So how do you reconcile the theory of consent of the governed with the fact of divine dictatorship?
 
2008-07-21 01:15:17 AM
DamnYankees: SkinnyHead: Of course, if he tried to say something like that today, people would be calling him all sorts of names and trying to have his views banned from schools.

We hold your stupidity to be self-evident.


Win. So much win.
 
2008-07-21 01:15:34 AM
bullock.: Farking Canuck
bullock.: I am just saying that you angrily defending having sex w/ underaged girls certainly casts you in the light of pedophelia.

Your insistance on incorrectly labeling people casts you in the light of a moron.

I suspect that you think you are coming off as an intellectual in your attacks on DamnYankees but you are wrong. He has not defended pedophilia in any way ... he has merely pointed out that you do not understand the term. And he is correct.

So you think it is ok to have sex with underaged girls, right?

Underaged means less than 18 years of age, fyi.

This is the point you meant to make, correct?


Learn to close your tags already. /
 
2008-07-21 01:19:45 AM
DamnYankees: We hold your stupidity to be self-evident.

You lead off the thread saying how you think that Thomas Jefferson is, in my opinion, the greatest American of all time. We don't talk about him enough, though, since in many ways he lost the war of ideas about what this nation should become. But then when you find out that he advocated the theory of intelligent design, you end up calling him stupid. I guess that just proves my point.
 
2008-07-21 01:21:03 AM
mandingueiro: hey, just pointing out the flaws of being human. As for pedophile: Sally Hemings was allegedly jefferson's concubine. It is a theory supported by many historical revisionists. Research lends authenticity to the accusations. By today's standards, jefferson would be considered a pedophile.

Pedophilia is not about age, but biology. Attraction to a biological adult (that is, a sexually mature individual) is not and has never been considered pedophilia, even if the individual is below the age of consent. Pedophilia is an attraction to a prepubescent.

And she was 16, which unless she was an extremely late bloomer is well into biological adulthood. That's still legal in many places in the US today, and certainly wouldn't be considered pedophilia by any standards (unless for whatever reason the 16 year old hadn't gone into puberty yet).
 
2008-07-21 01:21:06 AM
SkinnyHead: Anti-Christian types like to cites Jefferson's 1823 letter to Adams where he talks about how the "day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter..." etc. You probably seen that before here on Fark. But they fail to read the rest of the letter where Jefferson lays out his theory of intelligent design: "...I hold (without appeal to revelation) that when we take a view of the Universe, in it's parts general or particular, it is impossible for the human mind not to percieve and feel a conviction of design, consummate skill, and indefinite power in every atom of it's composition.

...an intelligence so consummately skilled that it was able to structure the first principles of the universe so as to accomplish its designs by merely waiting for them to manifest according to the physical laws it laid out, rather than being required to continue tediously mucking about with things for the entirety of history.

Creationism and Intelligent Design presuppose the inability of God to accomplish this, and therefore constitute blasphemy.
 
2008-07-21 01:21:21 AM
SkinnyHead: But then when you find out that he advocated the theory of intelligent design, you end up calling him stupid. I guess that just proves my point.

I called you stupid. A decent respect for the opinions of Farkers demands you be mocked.
 
2008-07-21 01:21:36 AM
Egalitarian: ZeroCorpse

(Ben Franklin probably did it weekly.)

I thought he liked the older ladies?


Mr. Franklin did not discriminate on the basis of age ;)
 
2008-07-21 01:22:25 AM
SkinnyHead: Of course, if he tried to say something like that today, people would be calling him all sorts of names and trying to have his views banned from schools.

Psst. Genetics had not yet been discovered at the time of Jefferson and Adams' letter exchanges. Darwin hadn't yet sailed the Beagle. Gregor Mendel was still a baby. Jefferson had nothing else to go on, other than the Deist approach.
 
2008-07-21 01:22:29 AM
SkinnyHead: ninjakirby: Fascinating, please tell us more.

Certainly. Anti-Christian types like to cites Jefferson's 1823 letter to Adams where he talks about how the "day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter..." etc. You probably seen that before here on Fark. But they fail to read the rest of the letter where Jefferson lays out his theory of intelligent design: "...I hold (without appeal to revelation) that when we take a view of the Universe, in it's parts general or particular, it is impossible for the human mind not to percieve and feel a conviction of design, consummate skill, and indefinite power in every atom of it's composition. The movements of the heavenly bodies, so exactly held in their course by the balance of centrifugal and centripetal forces, the structure of our earth itself, with it's distribution of lands, waters and atmosphere, animal and vegetable bodies, examined in all their minutest particles, insects mere atoms of life, yet as perfectly organised as man or mammoth, the mineral substances, their generation and uses, it is impossible, I say, for the human mind not to believe that there is, in all this, design, cause and effect, up to an ultimate cause, a fabricator of all things from matter and motion, their preserver and regulator while permitted to exist in their present forms, and their regenerator into new and other forms. We see, too, evident proofs of the necessity of a superintending power to maintain the Universe in it's course and order. Stars, well known, have disappeared, new ones have come into view, comets, in their incalculable courses, may run foul of suns and planets and require renovation under other laws; certain races of animals are become extinct; and, were there no restoring power, all existences might extinguish successively, one by one, until all should be reduced to a shapeless chaos. So irresistible are these evidences of an intelligent and powerful Agent that, of the infinite numbers of men who have existed thro' all time, they have believed, in the proportion of a million at least to Unit, in the hypothesis of an eternal pre-existence of a creator, rather than in that of a self-existent Universe." ~ Thomas JeffersonOf course, if he tried to say something like that today, people would be calling him all sorts of names and trying to have his views banned from schools.


He didn't know any better. He died 33 years before Darwin published On the Origin of Species. We know better now. Evolution happens. We've seen it in the laboratory, with bacteria and fruit flies. We have the transitional fossils. Much like gravity, it's the exact *mechanism* that's still being uncovered.
 
2008-07-21 01:22:56 AM
DamnYankees: SkinnyHead: But then when you find out that he advocated the theory of intelligent design, you end up calling him stupid. I guess that just proves my point.

I called you stupid. A decent respect for the opinions of Farkers demands you be mocked.


I see what you did there.
 
2008-07-21 01:24:20 AM
Lenny_da_Hog: Psst. Genetics had not yet been discovered at the time of Jefferson and Adams' letter exchanges. Darwin hadn't yet sailed the Beagle. Gregor Mendel was still a baby. Jefferson had nothing else to go on, other than the Deist approach.

LordJiro: He didn't know any better. He died 33 years before Darwin published On the Origin of Species. We know better now. Evolution happens. We've seen it in the laboratory, with bacteria and fruit flies. We have the transitional fossils. Much like gravity, it's the exact *mechanism* that's still being uncovered.

Guys, he knows this. He's the most inanely dense poster on Fark. You're tilting at windmills.
 
2008-07-21 01:26:23 AM
DamnYankees:
Guys, he knows this. He's the most inanely dense poster on Fark. You're tilting at windmills.


Shh. I get paid by the post.
 
2008-07-21 01:28:30 AM
Sum Dum Gai: mandingueiro: hey, just pointing out the flaws of being human. As for pedophile: Sally Hemings was allegedly jefferson's concubine. It is a theory supported by many historical revisionists. Research lends authenticity to the accusations. By today's standards, jefferson would be considered a pedophile.

Pedophilia is not about age, but biology. Attraction to a biological adult (that is, a sexually mature individual) is not and has never been considered pedophilia, even if the individual is below the age of consent. Pedophilia is an attraction to a prepubescent.

And she was 16, which unless she was an extremely late bloomer is well into biological adulthood. That's still legal in many places in the US today, and certainly wouldn't be considered pedophilia by any standards (unless for whatever reason the 16 year old hadn't gone into puberty yet).


yes someone pointed this out earlier. OK. So he was a statutory rapist?
 
2008-07-21 01:30:01 AM
mandingueiro: yes someone pointed this out earlier. OK. So he was a statutory rapist?

No. It wasn't illegal.
 
2008-07-21 01:30:32 AM
Kensey: Creationism and Intelligent Design presuppose the inability of God to accomplish this, and therefore constitute blasphemy.

Me and Thomas Jefferson don't see it that way.

DamnYankees: I called you stupid. A decent respect for the opinions of Farkers demands you be mocked.

What does that mean? You playing to the crowd?

Lenny_da_Hog: Psst. Genetics had not yet been discovered at the time of Jefferson and Adams' letter exchanges. Darwin hadn't yet sailed the Beagle. Gregor Mendel was still a baby. Jefferson had nothing else to go on, other than the Deist approach.

I relying on what he really said and you're just projecting on him what you want him to be. Besides, most of his views concerning intelligent design theory were based on fine-tuned universe. Darwin had nothing to say about that.
 
2008-07-21 01:32:50 AM
DamnYankees: Thomas Jefferson is, in my opinion, the greatest American of all time. We don't talk about him enough, though, since in many ways he lost the war of ideas about what this nation should become.

Which was OK, considering what he wanted to do to immigrants and people who talked bad about the government.

//Alien & Sedition act... not gonna live that one down. Especially since he's dead, I guess.
 
2008-07-21 01:33:04 AM
SkinnyHead: Of course, if he tried to say something like that today, people would be calling him all sorts of names and trying to have his views banned from schools.

We learn those views already bucko - Civics class and US History.
 
2008-07-21 01:33:15 AM
SkinnyHead: What does that mean? You playing to the crowd?

You're a funny little man. You used to annoy me, but now I find you amusing.
 
2008-07-21 01:33:31 AM
SkinnyHead:

I relying on what he really said and you're just projecting on him what you want him to be. Besides, most of his views concerning intelligent design theory were based on fine-tuned universe. Darwin had nothing to say about that.


What evidence would or could ever convince you that ID as a scientific theory is a load of crap?
 
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