Raging_Primate: By the way, the Jefferson Bible is a great read.

It sounds like it. I had never heard of it. I am definately going to read it. I just downloaded it (new window)

What can we do with the old testament? It is way too farked up to save a whole lot, but surely we can get 46 pages worth of good stuff.

TFA: Deists differed from traditional Christians by rejecting miraculous occurrences and prophecies and embracing the notion of a well-ordered universe created by a God who withdrew into detached transcendence.

Jefferson viewed the Creator as more of a superintending power, rather than a detached transcendence.

Thomas Jefferson is, in my opinion, the greatest American of all time. We don't talk about him enough, though, since in many ways he lost the war of ideas about what this nation should become.

mandingueiro: DamnYankees: Thomas Jefferson is, in my opinion, the greatest American of all time. We don't talk about him enough, though, since in many ways he lost the war of ideas about what this nation should become.

yeah, a deist, slave-owning, racist, pedophile?

That's an odd mix of good, bad, and false. I don't know what point you're making.

Also, calling Jefferson a pedophile is pathetic and wrong. I don't even know where you're getting this from, but go fark yourself.

mandingueiro: DamnYankees: Thomas Jefferson is, in my opinion, the greatest American of all time. We don't talk about him enough, though, since in many ways he lost the war of ideas about what this nation should become.

yeah, a deist, slave-owning, racist, pedophile?

You forgot where he stabbed one of his best friends, John Adam, in the back in order to win an election. And he also help speed up the formation of the two party political system that most of the Founding Fathers saw as abhorrent.

Darth_Lukecash: You forgot where he stabbed one of his best friends, John Adam, in the back in order to win an election. And he also help speed up the formation of the two party political system that most of the Founding Fathers saw as abhorrent.

Two things about the Adams relationship. First, they made up and became great friends later in life. Secondly, don't you think there's something to be said about putting country before personal friendships? The election of 1800 was not nice on either side, but someone like Jefferson was not about to put his vision of America on the back burner just in the name of being nice to his pal. I don't see anything wrong with that.

mandingueiro: hey, just pointing out the flaws of being human. As for pedophile: Sally Hemings was allegedly jefferson's concubine. It is a theory supported by many historical revisionists. Research lends authenticity to the accusations. By today's standards, jefferson would be considered a pedophile.

First of all, I never said he was flawless. Some of his flaws are what make him such an amazing American figure. I didn't say he was the most noble or righteous American of all time.

Secondly, concubine? Are you kidding me? This isn't 37 BC in Carthage. He had an affair with one of his slaves. His personal sexual life is of no real interest to me and bears very little on his character. Her status as 'slave' is much more important than her status as 'mistress'.

Thirdly, you're a moron about the pedophile thing. There is zero evidence, zero, that Jefferson liked her pre-puberty. I'll seriously have to report you to the mods if you don't either retract or prove your statement. I don't get touchy about much, but calling a great person a pedophile with no proof or logic is farked up.

Finally, Fark is back. What he heck happened?

mandingueiro: yeah, a deist, slave-owning, racist, pedophile?

O RLY?



There is a whole lot wrong with what I just did right there.

mandingueiro: um...she was 14 and he was parading her in french courts as his "pet". She bore 5 of his children. Somehow, given the circumstances (and this is only my opinion) i highly doubt she was the only slave he had sexual relations with.
/No. I will not retract my statement.Unless evidence is shown otherwise.
//grow a pair. quit getting your panties in bunch.

Your knowledge of history is flagrantly wrong - you probably get your news from Michael Savage or something. I can't prove to you he was *not* a pedophile, just as I can't prove you haven't had sex with a goat. That's not how logic works.

Damn, the LA Times is really on the ball with this story. Took them, what, 100 years to get to it?

fanbladesaresharp: It bears a lot. Personal sexual relationships with a slave? Are you inbred or something? And you say "of no real interest". Man you are pathetic.

It bears a lot on what? His personal morality? He had sex with a slave. I honestly don't see whats horrible about that. The "slave" part is the bad thing, not the sex part.

rka: DamnYankees: Thirdly, you're a moron about the pedophile thing. There is zero evidence, zero, that Jefferson liked her pre-puberty. I'll seriously have to report you to the mods if you don't either retract or prove your statement.

Are you his long lost relative or something?

Settle down Francis, this is Fark. Only pansies run around calling for mods.

Sorry, but for some reason calling people pedophiles with no proof sort of bothers me. I rarely report to mods (twice ever, I think).

greatgodyoshi: mandingueiro: um...she was 14 and he was parading her in french courts as his "pet".

Wasn't 14 about marrying age back then?

He also brought Sally to France to accompany his daughter there. It had nothing to do with parading her around. Also, when you consider the earlier supposed child Sally had was in 1790, when was 17, that's hardly pedophilia.

Gulliver: DamnYankees: He had sex with a slave. I honestly don't see whats horrible about that. The "slave" part is the bad thing, not the sex part.

He was in a position of absolute authority over her. She had no choice in the relationship. None of this matters to you?

Thus the bad part of slavery - being forced to do things, often quite horrible things, without consent. The fact that he had an affair with her is sort of besides the point.

mandingueiro: All I am saying is circumstantial evidence shows that he was most likely taking advantage of a young (negro) woman as it was common practice back then. Maybe your knowledge of history has been obfuscated by a couple of centuries of propaganda.

Having sex with a 15 or 16 year old is not pedophilia.

Point of order: pedophila is a sexual attraction to pre-pubescents. People who fark 14 year olds aren't pedophiles, because (barring hormone or genetic issues) 14 year olds are past puberty. The proper term for someone who farks 14 year olds is "teacher".

fanbladesaresharp: ?????? Go fark your little cousin then and get back to us on the results.

What does incest have to do with anything?

Pic of Jefferson's bible. Notice how he kept the Greek next to the Latin Vulgate next to the English. He could write Greek in one hand and Latin in the other at the same time. He, like most Deists, was quite interested in comparative religion, and preferred the ethics of Paleopagans to the ethics of the New Testament (new window), at least as he understood them both.