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(Talking Points Memo)   McCain campaign: "We would never question Sen. Obama's patriotism. We just think that he wants to see his country lose a war so he can benefit politically"   (tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 200
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1279 clicks; posted to Politics » on 14 Jul 2008 at 2:31 PM (5 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2008-07-14 01:19:24 PM
Ahhhh, politics. The slezyest form of entertainment know to man.
 
2008-07-14 01:19:44 PM
at least they're being honest about their hypocrisy.
 
2008-07-14 01:20:15 PM
I could've sworn a few years ago there was no "win" or "lose" as it relates to the Iraqi war. In fact, I'm pretty sure that anybody talking about "winning" and "losing" was emboldening the terrorists.
 
2008-07-14 01:22:30 PM

FTA:

As a commenter notes below, what Dems are being accused of thinking sounds awfully similar to something McCain himself actually said.


That quote?

That aside, we thought it worthwhile to recall that McCain himself has actually said something along the lines of what Dems are being accused of thinking. During the 2004 elections, McCain said the following about the recent surfacing of a Bin Laden tape...

"Bin Laden may have just given us a little boost. Amazing, huh?"

McCain also said that the video is "helpful to President Bush because it puts the focus on the war on terrorism."

The McCain campaign is merely accusing Obama and Dems of wanting American deaths because it will help them politically. McCain, meanwhile, actually said that the specter of a lethal terrorist attack on American soil would help the GOP. The point, again, is that Republicans actually think this way.
 
2008-07-14 01:23:18 PM
bulldg4life: In fact, I'm pretty sure that anybody talking about "winning" and "losing" was emboldening embiggening the terrorists.

Fiximacated that for you.
 
2008-07-14 01:23:57 PM
This is hardly surprising coming from the same people that said a terrorist attack on America would be beneficial to McCain. It's how they think: War = good for Republicans, No War = good for Democrats.
 
2008-07-14 01:31:36 PM
i have to give it to them... they have the balls to try and spin their abject failure into a negative for the other guy.
 
2008-07-14 01:33:34 PM
It's not exactly untrue. The Democrat Party needs Americans to be fed up with the war and the economy. If the war were successful and competently executed, Republicans would still control the congress. I wouldn't go so far as to say Democrats pray for American troops to die. It's more of an abstract thing. Democrats are ultimately the reason we are in Iraq. The opposition party is supposed to be a balance. The Democrats were too worried about elections and public perception, so they bear just as much blame, if not more.

Republicans do this too. The neo-cons needed 9/11 like a smoker needed a flame. They clearly also have a hard-on for some kind of attack on America that they can link to Iran. The fact that the borders are still insecure is like leaving the door to your home unlocked and left slightly ajar.

This is a natural result of party before country, country before people.
 
2008-07-14 01:33:44 PM
Maybe McCain will be lucky and a horrible attack will kill tens of thousands of American citizens. Fingers are crossed on the Straight Talk Express!
 
2008-07-14 01:35:16 PM
Suicidal Writer: Democrats are ultimately the reason we are in Iraq. The opposition party is supposed to be a balance. The Democrats were too worried about elections and public perception, so they bear just as much blame, if not more.

Do you take Dramaminetm before you spin that hard?
 
2008-07-14 01:37:58 PM
Suicidal Writer: If the war were successful and competently executed, Republicans would still control the congress.

And most of would be ok with that. I don't want to get rid of the Republicans for some abstract political reason, I want them gone because they've failed at everything they've tried to do.

Suicidal Writer: The Democrats were too worried about elections and public perception, so they bear just as much blame, if not more.

Which is a big reason why Hillary Clinton isn't running for president anymore.


Suicidal Writer: This is a natural result of party before country, country before people.

This, sadly, is completely true.
 
2008-07-14 01:39:42 PM
Why would anyone ever vote for the Democrats when you stop and consider how much damage they did to America when the Republicans were in charge ?
 
2008-07-14 01:40:07 PM
Suicidal Writer: It's not exactly untrue.

it's untrue that the democrats want to see us lose (as if you can even define this thing in terms of winning and losing anymore...).

however, it's completely true that the failure is good for democrats politically, but only indirectly. it is good for democrats because the republicans caused it. the more apt correlation is that it's bad for republicans, as it should be.
 
2008-07-14 01:41:45 PM
Mordant: Why would anyone ever vote for the Democrats when you stop and consider how much damage they did to America when the Republicans were in charge ?

*laughs*

*cries a little too*
 
2008-07-14 01:42:39 PM
Subby: McCain campaign: "We would never question Sen. Obama's patriotism. We just think that he wants to see his country lose a war so he can benefit politically"

McCain wouldn't see that as unpatriotic. The GOP has been using the war as a political talking point for a long time now. He is obviously just trying to welcome Senator Obama to the club. The fact that his point is full of shiat is another matter altogether.
 
2008-07-14 01:42:54 PM
what_now: Which is a big reason why Hillary Clinton isn't running for president anymore.

Al Gore did something similar when it came to the first Iraq War: pure political maneuvering. Had she simply apologized around 2005 or 2006, the anti-war public might have been more forgiving. If only the Democrats had more principled politicians like Dennis Kucinich and Paul Wellstone (R.I.P)...
 
2008-07-14 01:43:11 PM
Suicidal Writer:

It's not exactly untrue.

Isn't whether it is or isn't not exactly untrue not irrelevant? If it is isn't what is it?

/I have no idea what I mean
 
2008-07-14 01:45:54 PM
Mordant: Why would anyone ever vote for the Democrats when you stop and consider how much damage they did to America when the Republicans were in charge ?

Outstanding. Better than usual.
 
2008-07-14 01:46:12 PM
I think it's rather obvious that the situation in Iraq and the Democrats' political fortunes are often inversely proportional, but whether or not that translates into actively hoping for the situation to deteriorate is a bit much. Still, if peace and stability suddenly broke out in Iraq, as unlikely as that may be, it certainly wouldn't bode well for Obama.
 
2008-07-14 01:46:52 PM
Suicidal Writer: Democrats are ultimately the reason we are in Iraq.

No, they're an indirect reason. The PNAC is the reason we are in Iraq.

But if you really want to lay blame, it's the citizens of this country. We get the government we deserve, and too many of us have no f*cking clue and continue to vote one or two issues (abortion, gay marriage, whatever), leading us to this point.

"We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."

~ H. L. Mencken
 
2008-07-14 01:48:11 PM
Suicidal Writer: Democrats are ultimately the reason we are in Iraq. The opposition party is supposed to be a balance. The Democrats were too worried about elections and public perception, so they bear just as much blame, if not more.

Wow.

Mordant: Why would anyone ever vote for the Democrats when you stop and consider how much damage they did to America when the Republicans were in charge ?

Well done.
 
2008-07-14 01:48:24 PM
SherKhan: Isn't whether it is or isn't not exactly untrue not irrelevant? If it is isn't what is it?

For it to be true, The Democrat Party would have to hope for things directly: "I hope the insurgents defeat us," "I hope we lose."

It's more like, "shiat, if Bush's policies lead to a positive outcome, the Republicans benefit."

There is even a humanitarian angle to it: "If the war goes well, it will be supported at home, therefore, more Iraqis will die and the unjust war will continue on and Big Oil will continue to rape a occupied foreign country, etc."
 
2008-07-14 01:48:38 PM
SherKhan: Suicidal Writer:

It's not exactly untrue.

Isn't whether it is or isn't not exactly untrue not irrelevant? If it is isn't what is it?

/I have no idea what I mean


42
 
2008-07-14 01:49:43 PM
Whereas the Republicans wanted to start a couple wars so they could benefit politically....

I repeat: they should have spent more effort thoroughly making an example (and civilized country) out of Afghanistan instead of heading for Iraq.
 
2008-07-14 01:50:02 PM
Suicidal Writer: Democrats are ultimately the reason we are in Iraq. The opposition party is supposed to be a balance. The Democrats were too worried about elections and public perception, so they bear just as much blame, if not more.

Good Lord. Do sprinkle your ice cream with paint chips? Your degeneration into stupidity and madness is unusually rapid.
 
2008-07-14 01:52:23 PM
Lyndsey Graham is such a tool. Just a machine that spouts republican rhetoric whenever spoken to.

The way he is sucking McCain's balls, I'd imagine he's trying to set himself up for a nice role in a possible McCain administration.

/TOOL
 
2008-07-14 01:53:20 PM
John Paul Jones: "We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."

~ H. L. Mencken


I always thought Mencken was an elitist asshole, since he spent so much of his precious time insulting common people.
 
2008-07-14 01:55:18 PM
John Paul Jones: But if you really want to lay blame, it's the citizens of this country. We get the government we deserve, and too many of us have no f*cking clue and continue to vote one or two issues (abortion, gay marriage, whatever), leading us to this point.

I agree. I put the ultimate blame at the feet of those who voted for Democrats and Republicans who support/supported the war. What raises my ire is that as an American, I too am guilty, even though I voted for neither a Democrat or Republican. When Bush's approval rating was at 90%, I was a 10 percenter. When 3/4 of the country supported the war, I was in the opposition. This is the problem with the masses.

To hear partisan Democrats tell the tale, Ralph Nader is the reason. As if he was some sort of Svengali who caused the Democrat Party to cave time and time again and caused the America people to re-elect Bush in 2004.

Now, Ralph Nader is a man who is definitely a pro-American guy. As with many activists who dedicate themselves to humanitarian and/or civic causes, he has a bit of an "assholish" type of personality, but the world is a better place for him having been in it.
 
2008-07-14 01:57:50 PM
Suicidal Writer: Had she simply apologized around 2005 or 2006, the anti-war public might have been more forgiving.

I wouldn't have. John Edwards tried that, and it's one of the (many) reasons why he wasn't a valid choice for us.

When the Democrats threw John Kerry out there, they were saying "Instant Club Hit: You'll Dance (vote) to Anything" to us.

A LOT of people, myself included, decided that we wouldn't be voting for another politician who thought a "my bad" would suffice for making one of the worst decisions in the history of a generation.
 
2008-07-14 02:00:20 PM
The answer is it is dependent on what is's definition is. Or is it what isn't's is? It isn't what isn't's isn't, that much I know.
 
2008-07-14 02:00:27 PM
I don't think Obama wants us to lose a war. I just think his campaign and his supporters are mostly indifferent to the consequences.
 
2008-07-14 02:01:26 PM
MasterThief: I don't think Obama wants us to lose a war. I just think his campaign and his supporters are mostly indifferent to the consequences.

actually, it's because they aren't indifferent to the consequences of being in iraq, such as americans dying and the rest of the world hating us.
 
2008-07-14 02:01:40 PM
sepuku2:
I always thought Mencken was an elitist asshole, since he spent so much of his precious time insulting common people.

Whether he was an elitist or not, in the current administration's case, he was right.
 
2008-07-14 02:04:41 PM
Zulu_as_Kono: sepuku2:
I always thought Mencken was an elitist asshole, since he spent so much of his precious time insulting common people.

Whether he was an elitist or not, in the current administration's case, he was right.


Exactly.
 
2008-07-14 02:05:45 PM
sepuku2: I always thought Mencken was an elitist asshole, since he spent so much of his precious time insulting common people.

I also heard he talked like a fag and tried to make you look bad in front of your old lady. You should kick his ass to show him you don't cotton to no man what thinks he's better than you.
 
2008-07-14 02:06:34 PM
Suicidal Writer: o hear partisan Democrats tell the tale, Ralph Nader is the reason. As if he was some sort of Svengali who caused the Democrat Party to cave time and time again and caused the America people to re-elect Bush in 2004.

Now, Ralph Nader is a man who is definitely a pro-American guy. As with many activists who dedicate themselves to humanitarian and/or civic causes, he has a bit of an "assholish" type of personality, but the world is a better place for him having been in it.


I hate agreeing with you, but this is absolutly right.

As bad as Bush has been, I feel like we needed him to wake the fark up.
 
2008-07-14 02:17:41 PM
Suicidal Writer: IDemocrats are ultimately the reason we are in Iraq.

*applause*

Every time I think that SW could not POSSIBLY say something dumber, s/he steps up to the plate and bangs another one out. Really, brava (bravo).

Must have been a lot of non-Democrats protesting all over the U.S. and the rest of the world in 2003 just before the Bush Administration invaded, huh?
 
2008-07-14 02:20:34 PM
sepuku2: I always thought Mencken was an elitist asshole, since he spent so much of his precious time insulting common people.

The common people are responsible for most problems. The elite are seen as the problem, but unjust wars, injustice, and assorted social problems wouldn't exist without the common people supporting it. More liberal minded people tend to assault the media and excuse the common people by saying they are being manipulated. This doesn't hold water, and even itself seems elitist, seeing as they themselves somehow managed to not have the same views and think different. This has become so ubiquitous that it is applied as a ex post facto excuse for historical problems ("You can't criticize Thomas Jefferson for owning slaves, he was a product of his times"), ignoring the fact that there were people, albeit a minority, who opposed such things.

Mencken seems to have been such a curmudgeon because he opposed violence toward blacks, supported evolution in a time where the evidence was not overwhelming enough to make sense in terms of popular science, etc. His anger and disgust were probably what kept him sane.

Just imagine how elitist the freethinkers* in North Korea feel. The country is a cult and the common people, as a whole, partially sow the seeds of their own problems. The freethinkers* have to pay for it. One man can't take on the entire society, but a society can take on its government which is nothing more than a sub-group in the society.


*A bit of a questionable term, but in the context of North Korea, a country that is more of a cult than any other country, it makes a bit more sense.
 
2008-07-14 02:20:47 PM
sigdiamond2000: also heard he talked like a fag and tried to make you look bad in front of your old lady. You should kick his ass to show him you don't cotton to no man what thinks he's better than you.

It's kind of hard to kick a dead man in the ass, but for my sake you can go ahead and try, weener licker.
 
2008-07-14 02:21:42 PM
What a disgusting pig. No time to cover this though, The New Yorker's given the 24/7s the opportunity to go down the checklist of Obama meme all day long.
 
2008-07-14 02:23:44 PM
Suicidal Writer: Just imagine how elitist the freethinkers* in North Korea feel.

I might have some knowlegs of this since I was stationed on the DMZ for three years. There are no elitist freethinkers in North Korea. They were purged over fifty years ago along with the clergy and educators.
 
2008-07-14 02:25:04 PM
"The Democratic Party built a political strategy around us losing the war in Iraq"

like it or not, this is true
 
2008-07-14 02:27:35 PM
Politics: George Carlin (new window)


SRSLY
 
2008-07-14 02:29:11 PM
Suicidal Writer: Democrats are ultimately the reason we are in Iraq.


*whistle*

Alright, everybody out of the pool. I've spotted the dumbest statement, ever, on FARK.
 
2008-07-14 02:32:49 PM
Nestea Plunge: Alright, everybody out of the pool. I've spotted the dumbest statement, ever, on FARK.

sigh.... he's actually making a decent, if a bit streched, point.


what is it about some Obama supporters that makes them fanatical babbling psycho lapdogs?
 
2008-07-14 02:33:40 PM
Your neigbor warns their child not to play in the street. Their child chases a ball into the street and is promptly run over. If you think your neighbor must be happy because they were proven right, you're readly to vote for McCain.
 
2008-07-14 02:33:56 PM
gimmedaloot: Nestea Plunge: Alright, everybody out of the pool. I've spotted the dumbest statement, ever, on FARK.

sigh.... he's actually making a decent, if a bit streched, point.


what is it about some Obama supporters that makes them fanatical babbling psycho lapdogs?


*Sigh*

Could be that I'm not an Obama supporter, farkface.
 
2008-07-14 02:34:53 PM
Nestea Plunge: Could be that I'm not an Obama supporter, farkface.

Hmm.. another Fark Independent, eh?
 
2008-07-14 02:35:35 PM
Nestea Plunge: Alright, everybody out of the pool. I've spotted the dumbest statement, ever, on FARK.

You're talking about someone who has included an impassioned defense of Sarah Jessica Parker in her profile that includes the phrases "modality shift" and "beauty vanguard".

Barring the existence of some sort of major personality disorder, I doubt Suicidal Writer is entirely on the level.
 
2008-07-14 02:35:47 PM
It is utterly impossible to "win" the conflict in Iraq.
 
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