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(The Mind Unleashed)   Government oddity of the day: politician proposes oil policy that is not only extremely unpopular, it might actually work   (clusterstock.com) divider line 119
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4200 clicks; posted to Politics » on 14 Jul 2008 at 12:59 PM (6 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2008-07-14 01:58:39 PM
55mph speed limit?

But I just bought this:
i104.photobucket.com

You can go to farking hell!
 
2008-07-14 02:02:14 PM
sky cat: This is backed up with SCIENCE? Or your ASS? Did you pull it out of your ass? Come on, admit it. We know you did.

I won't even dignify that with a pasted URL from one of the countless sites that back up my statement.
 
2008-07-14 02:03:10 PM
Markie Farkie
With today's car aerodynamics the difference in speed would make a negligible drop in consumption.

Bullshiat. In my Mazda3, it gets ~34mpg cruising at 65. At 55 it gets ~40mpg. That's a good 15% difference.
 
2008-07-14 02:05:10 PM
Dubya's_Coke_Dealer: burndtdan: we've done this before, and yet somehow it failed to prevent our current situation. perhaps we need to concern ourselves with solutions that will reduce our dependence on oil, not just our use of it.

Because they stopped DOING IT? MAYBE?


already answered this...

but we stopped doing it because it addressed the symptom, not the problem. once the symptom was relatively cleared up, there was no reason to keep it going.

if we had voters and leaders who understood that the actual goal shouldn't just be lower gas prices, or lower gas expense, but rather it should be energy independence, then addressing the symptom would be a nice way to bridge the gap. but it's too tempting to ignore the problem if it isn't actively causing distress.
 
2008-07-14 02:05:26 PM
My Honda gets 95 to 105 mpg. Pic in profile.
 
2008-07-14 02:05:39 PM
I thought most cars were fuel efficient at 65 now. Also isn't going a constant speed what saves fuel?

How is a 55 speed limit going to prevent people from weaving in and out of traffic and changing their acceleration while they are doing it?
 
2008-07-14 02:06:55 PM
Psylence: Horseshiat. Stop putting crap ass crap gear ratios in cars so that they run inefficiently at normal highway speeds.

GEAR RATIOS. LET ME SHOW YOU THEM.


YOU CAN CHANGE GEAR RATIOS ALL YOU WANT. But the issue is drag: drag increases exponentially with speed. I.E., the faster you go, the faster resistance to you going, goes up. Given the fact that we don't appear to be getting rid of AIR or FRICTION anytime soon, there are limited efficiencies to be gained by changing the gearing. Sure, if you have an old 3-speed and change to a modern 6-speed, your mileage will increase.
 
2008-07-14 02:07:47 PM
Why not let cars have a top speed limit according to their EPA rated efficiency and a notation on their bumper with that speed listed?

Like this plate is used for EU cars;
i269.photobucket.com

Then this would be used on US cars: (rough MSPaint job)
i269.photobucket.com


Large SUVs/pickups can go 55
Large cars/muscle cars/smaller SUVs/small pickups get to go 60
Larger Mid sized cars like the new Impalas or Taurus go 65
Smalled mid-sized Malibus and Accords can go 70
Compacts/subcompacts/hybrids like Civics and Cobalts can go 75
ALL Motorcycles can go 80

Ideas, critiques?

THIS would encourage folks to buy smaller more than rising gas prices, I think.
 
2008-07-14 02:08:48 PM
Dubya's_Coke_Dealer: Given the fact that we don't appear to be getting rid of AIR or FRICTION anytime soon,

blogs.zdnet.com

bush tried that once, but it didn't work
 
2008-07-14 02:10:04 PM
Some of us remember 55 MPH highways. It sucked. How come nobody has suggested an Arab oil embargo? We can keep a float on what we have left? Let's show these ragheads whose boss!
 
2008-07-14 02:10:40 PM
Corvus
Nope, not true. you will always save gas by going slower.

My RX-7 got 27 mpg at 70-75, and only 24 at 55-60. Some engines are more efficient at higher rpm. There's a whole lot more in play than simply aerodynamics.
 
2008-07-14 02:12:10 PM
Dubya's_Coke_Dealer: Psylence: Horseshiat. Stop putting crap ass crap gear ratios in cars so that they run inefficiently at normal highway speeds.

GEAR RATIOS. LET ME SHOW YOU THEM.

YOU CAN CHANGE GEAR RATIOS ALL YOU WANT. But the issue is drag: drag increases exponentially with speed. I.E., the faster you go, the faster resistance to you going, goes up. Given the fact that we don't appear to be getting rid of AIR or FRICTION anytime soon, there are limited efficiencies to be gained by changing the gearing. Sure, if you have an old 3-speed and change to a modern 6-speed, your mileage will increase.


I think he was getting at axle ratios moreso than transmission ratios. There's no need for an everyday car to have a 3.73 or 4.10 axle ratio. Drop that thing to 2.73 or 3.13, and your highway mileage would improve drastically. Sure, trucks and the like used for towing would still benefit from the higher ratio axles...but for day-to-day commuter cars, a lower ratio gearset would be quite beneficial.
 
2008-07-14 02:12:16 PM
Came for Sammy Hagar pics, was sorely disappointed
 
2008-07-14 02:13:13 PM
What, I'll have to drive slower to save a few pennies worth of gas so that assholes will have more fuel around to pump into their 10-15 MPH vehicles?

Screw that. Ban all private vehicles that get <20 MPG first, then we'll talk lower speed limits. Or, make lower speed limits applicable only to gas guzzlers (as if that can work).
 
2008-07-14 02:14:00 PM
burndtdan: i'd say it isn't a piece of the solution. it is something that helps alleviate the symptom of the problem, but historical example shows that we are more than willing to ignore the problem if we temporarily get rid of the symptom.

i think the real solution will only come by means of the symptom being unavoidable (or, if we're smart, not trying to avoid it).


The solution to the problem is getting off of the oil teat.

In order to do that, we need an investment of various types (money, ingenuity, physical labor, materials, etc.) and we need time to implement the new energy system.

Conserving on oil buys us more time, so it's part of the solution.
 
2008-07-14 02:17:12 PM
markie_farkie: I won't even dignify that with a pasted URL from one of the countless sites that back up my statement.

As usual, make unsourced claims then fail to back them up. Conservatrolling at its best!
 
2008-07-14 02:18:01 PM
danlpoon: My Honda gets 95 to 105 mpg. Pic in profile.

Must be good for TRAVELING, hm?
 
2008-07-14 02:19:47 PM
My Honda Element gets 17 MPG. It's a minivan at any speed. I wish someone woulda told me that before I bought it.
 
2008-07-14 02:20:41 PM
danlpoon: My Honda Element gets 17 MPG. It's a minivan at any speed. I wish someone woulda told me that before I bought it.

automobiles.honda.com
 
2008-07-14 02:21:15 PM
Jarhed13: ....
I think he was getting at axle ratios moreso than transmission ratios. There's no need for an everyday car to have a 3.73 or 4.10 axle ratio. Drop that thing to 2.73 or 3.13, and your highway mileage would improve drastically. Sure, trucks and the like used for towing would still benefit from the higher ratio axles...but for day-to-day commuter cars, a lower ratio gearset would be quite beneficial.


But it just don't work, mostly speaking. If you put the high gears in, the engine will bog at higher speeds, forcing you to downshift, or else it'll be burning fuel much faster to mainain velocity. Sure, you can get some improvements. But the laws of physics aren't going anywhere. You can't jus tup the ratios all you want and get 1000 MPG, if you could, the Europeans would be driving those vehicles. You have to reduce weight, improve aerodynamics, the whole bit. There's a lot of resistance to these things, because people like big cars, and they like to be able to carry stuff/people when they want to - even though most car trips are with no cargo and one person.
 
2008-07-14 02:23:02 PM
Most passenger cars' best mpg rating is somewhere between 55-65mph, assuming you've got your tires inflated correctly, are running at a steady state (no accel/decel for stops), don't use the A/C and keep the windows closed.

With so many variables, though, it's impossible to just slap a speed limit out there and say "that's the one that's best for everyone". Plus, interstates are designed for 60-75mph speeds, and driving slower than that becomes really, really, REALLY boring and tedious.

The government would be better off by jacking the price of the gas tax up and allow the higher price to reduce consumption that way. Not going to happen, but they'd get better results than a lower speed limit.

/Civil Engineer
//Designed an interstate
///Yes I did
 
2008-07-14 02:24:20 PM
Dubya's_Coke_Dealer: Psylence: Horseshiat. Stop putting crap ass crap gear ratios in cars so that they run inefficiently at normal highway speeds.

GEAR RATIOS. LET ME SHOW YOU THEM.

YOU CAN CHANGE GEAR RATIOS ALL YOU WANT. But the issue is drag: drag increases exponentially with speed. I.E., the faster you go, the faster resistance to you going, goes up. Given the fact that we don't appear to be getting rid of AIR or FRICTION anytime soon, there are limited efficiencies to be gained by changing the gearing. Sure, if you have an old 3-speed and change to a modern 6-speed, your mileage will increase.


Swell, so tell manufacturers to stop putting ratios meant for 55mph limits in their machines. I have an Audi and a VW. In Europe, both cars get different, wider ratio 'boxes. Taller gearing. Less revs on the highway. Less fuel burned. Because they have high speed roads over there.

Over here we don't technically have high speed roads, but we drive that fast anyway. So stop farking us over because you BELIEVE that we all follow some dumbassed 55mph limit.
 
2008-07-14 02:25:12 PM
There's no sacrifice too great for government to have you make.

i33.tinypic.com
 
2008-07-14 02:25:12 PM
Pisses off people driving 90+ mph, f$%^ 'em.

Only if you are in the left/fast lane. Then, F$%^ you!

/drives on German autobahn
//hates when Dutch drivers going 60mph get in the left lane
 
2008-07-14 02:26:45 PM
Civil Engineer

What makes you more civil than say, an electrical engineer? Your post hints at an average amount of civility.

My Honda Element gets shiattier mileage than my wife's Infinity SUV.
 
2008-07-14 02:28:59 PM
Dubya's_Coke_Dealer: But the issue is drag: drag increases exponentially with speed.

imgs.xkcd.com

Op cit.
 
2008-07-14 02:30:35 PM
Drag co-efficiency? Not in my mini-van.
 
2008-07-14 02:35:48 PM
Why is it the govt's job to save us from ourselves?
 
2008-07-14 02:40:23 PM
Dubya's_Coke_Dealer: But the issue is drag: drag increases exponentially with speed.


Drag is a subset of the air flowing over the body. At various speeds you have both laminar and turbulant flows. The money maker is laminar. During a variety of speeds your coeficient of drag will vary upwards and downwards, laminar flow cells will move to take up more area causing other air flows to go turbulent and vice versa. Manufacturers now use computer modeling to find the best effieciency at rated speed and anything below or above are usually not considered. You Cd will change and sometime not for the better. Get your mind off of simple body dynamics and look into full CFD modeling and beyond.
 
2008-07-14 02:51:11 PM
danlpoon:
My Honda Element gets shiattier mileage than my wife's Infinity SUV.


automobiles.honda.com
 
2008-07-14 02:51:12 PM
I did all the things I should be doing to conserve gas

1. Drive less
2. Ride my motorcycle for most commutes
3. Drive less aggressively
4. Shift to higher gear at lower RPMs
5. check tire pressure

Guess what? I save lots of gas, and the increased price is something I can deal with. I am selling my mid sized truck ( I love my truck, and it is paid for). I am buying a used small car to cut even more.
 
2008-07-14 02:51:49 PM
danlpoon: Drag co-efficiency? Not in my mini-van.

automobiles.honda.com
 
2008-07-14 02:54:30 PM
Okay. I admit- The interior of the Element is pretty cool. But it's still a minivan. Perhaps the World's Coolest Minivan but a minivan nonetheless.
 
2008-07-14 02:54:40 PM
Saiga410: Dubya's_Coke_Dealer: But the issue is drag: drag increases exponentially with speed.


Drag is a subset of the air flowing over the body. At various speeds you have both laminar and turbulant flows. The money maker is laminar. During a variety of speeds your coeficient of drag will vary upwards and downwards, laminar flow cells will move to take up more area causing other air flows to go turbulent and vice versa. Manufacturers now use computer modeling to find the best effieciency at rated speed and anything below or above are usually not considered. You Cd will change and sometime not for the better. Get your mind off of simple body dynamics and look into full CFD modeling and beyond.


You sound like an Aerospace Engineer.
 
2008-07-14 02:59:46 PM
danlpoon: Okay. I admit- The interior of the Element is pretty cool. But it's still a minivan. Perhaps the World's Coolest Minivan but a minivan nonetheless.

automobiles.honda.com

And I'm out of pictures. You must stop talking about the Element now.
 
2008-07-14 03:01:16 PM
You must stop talking about the Element now.

My Element has been up Pike's Peak. I also conceived a child in it.
 
2008-07-14 03:09:01 PM
55mph sucked. If you weren't there you have no idea how unpopular it was.

Btw, it wasn't repealed by Reagan. What his admin did was allow for 65 mph limits on rural interstates, partly due to productivity but also due to tourists just avoiding long car trips and trying to figure out which areas were enforcing and how strictly. Overall, the law hurt tourism in many rural areas, and both the safety and fuel economy benefits were routinely overexaggerated. States were not given back the right to assign their own limits until 1995.

Even before airline deregulation in 1978, if you had to take a 5-6 hour trip, say across Pennsylvania, at least flights were an option. You could arrive 20 minutes before the flight. And flights went just about everywhere. Now you have to get there 90-120 minutes ahead and many routes to smaller cities have been canceled. So that option doesn't even exist.

Figure out another way. 55 works if you're in a metropolis. It doesn't work for the rest of the country.
 
2008-07-14 03:12:53 PM
danlpoon: My Element has been up Pike's Peak. I also conceived a child in it.

farm1.static.flickr.com
hunterdonmill.com
 
2008-07-14 03:14:33 PM
danlpoon: My Element has been up Pike's Peak. I also conceived a child in it.

I forgot a picture of the mother: fogcity.blogs.com
 
2008-07-14 03:22:42 PM
I forgot a picture of the mother

I'd hit it. She's a GILF Avril Levigne.
 
2008-07-14 03:23:24 PM
danlpoon: Civil Engineer

What makes you more civil than say, an electrical engineer? Your post hints at an average amount of civility.


But, for an engineer, an average amount of civility is more than the normal amount. We engineers aren't known for our civil skills.

Unless we're civil engineers to start with.

/Have met uncivil civil engineers
//Not one of them
 
2008-07-14 03:27:44 PM
I was going to be an engineer but I didn't want to kill hobos.
 
2008-07-14 03:32:52 PM
kuhns_m: I drive 60 mph down the expressway, I get 2-3 days extra per fill up.

Pisses off people driving 90+ mph, f$%^ 'em.


Just stay in the right lane where you belong and everyone will be happy.
 
2008-07-14 03:49:14 PM
A modest proposal: Let's raise gasoline taxes to the point where it's $10/gallon to fuel up. This will keep people who really don't need to travel off the road, encourage carpooling further, and significantly reduce fuel consumption. Please put down that knife. Thank you.
 
2008-07-14 03:53:02 PM
I had assumed in '95 when the speed limits went back up that it was a response to overcrowded highways. Higher speed=more capacity... A quick google didn't find any supporting info so, maybe raising the speed limits back up was just to make us all happy. Maybe we could be happy with using less gasoline at some price point?
 
2008-07-14 03:57:20 PM
Corvus: Jim_Callahan: Eh, an engine optimized for 55 will be most efficient at 55, an engine optimized for 70 will be more efficient at 70. Which do you think I'm figuring is more common nowadays?

Nope, not true. you will always save gas by going slower.


*blink*

Where the hell did you get that idea? You'll burn more /time, but we're talking about /mile here.

Know where cars burn the most fuel/mile? Low-speed stop-and-start driving.

I'll accept that I may be wrong about the location of the optimum, I'm not (quite) and automotive engineer. But what you just said? Completely nonsensical and untrue.

//If you run the car in idle without moving, by your logic, you'll cover more ground per gallon than if it's in gear.
 
2008-07-14 03:58:26 PM
Curbing consumption WILL NOT WORK. As much as we try to curb consumption, the demand for oil will simply continue to increase because of the ever-increasing oil demand from China, India, and developing nations. We need to increase the supply of oil. Now.
 
2008-07-14 04:01:16 PM
<b>danlpoon:</b>
<i>Civil Engineer</i>

<i>What makes you more civil than say, an electrical engineer? Your post hints at an average amount of civility.</i>

Crap, well done. When did you get funny?
 
2008-07-14 04:08:59 PM
TheShadow: A modest proposal: Let's raise gasoline taxes to the point where it's $10/gallon to fuel up. This will keep people who really don't need to travel off the road, encourage carpooling further, and significantly reduce fuel consumption. Please put down that knife. Thank you.

Umm, so what would we do with the extra tax money? Kick back to the Oil companies to make up for any sales shortfalls they might experience under this plan?
 
2008-07-14 04:25:27 PM
Most of southern NY is already pegged at 55 on the highways (some even 45 and 50), so lowering the national average to 55 again wont do much in all locations
 
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