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(Telegraph)   New bill in front of the German parliament aims to wipe away decades of discrimination and exclusion by extending the right to vote to babies   ( telegraph.co.uk) divider line
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2251 clicks; posted to Main » on 10 Jul 2008 at 9:28 AM (9 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



35 Comments     (+0 »)
 
 
2008-07-10 06:54:22 AM  
lol
 
2008-07-10 07:35:57 AM  
History is not his side however, with a similar motion failing to win parliamentary approval in 2005.

No shiat the established old crowd doesn't want to extend voting to a bunch of uppity youth, but pushing it all the way to newborns is a bit extreme.

I think 16 would be a more reasonable choice.

An aside: I've never understood why the magical age at which somebody is capable of being responsible for something shifts around for different things. Driving a car: 16. Buying booze/cigarettes: 19 here.

When I got my license at 16 I didn't have to drive far to find someone willing to buy booze, cigarettes, porn or hook me up with things that nobody of any age is supposedly responsible enough to handle.
 
2008-07-10 07:41:28 AM  
pnjunction:Driving a car: 16. Buying booze/cigarettes: 19 here.

Oh, and 18 to vote. So which is it? 16, 18 or 19 that we blossom into responsible citizens?

Also, prosecutors always push to try young offenders as adults when they are 14-17. I guess young people can't be trusted with any responsibility but are easy targets for the blame when things go wrong.
 
2008-07-10 07:54:21 AM  
I really think it should remain 18 to vote, perhaps 21, but 16 to drink, drive, smoke, fark, partake drugs and so on, because teenagers are more concerned with those things than they are with politics. Let them get it out of their systems then they calm down and read about politics then know who to vote for.

Silly Germans, always take things too far.
 
2008-07-10 07:59:25 AM  
Slaxl:I really think it should remain 18 to vote, perhaps 21, but 16 to drink, drive, smoke, fark, partake drugs and so on, because teenagers are more concerned with those things than they are with politics. Let them get it out of their systems then they calm down and read about politics then know who to vote for.

I'm 26 and still care more about those fun things than I care about politics. I don't think it's a given that most of the 18+ crowd puts that much though into the process (or even shows up to vote for that matter).

I say make it 25 though. Get them disenfranchised and disinterested in politics early on so that the younger folk can't/don't get all uppity and start voting in progressives.
 
2008-07-10 08:46:51 AM  
TFA:Dozens of German politicians have tabled a new law to extend voting rights to babies, toddlers, children and teenagers.

The word "tabled" must mean something different in Telegraph English than it does in the English language I know.
 
2008-07-10 09:31:43 AM  
Vagina....it's not a voting booth.

/although a polling station, maybe
 
2008-07-10 09:32:14 AM  
DarthBrooks:TFA:Dozens of German politicians have tabled a new law to extend voting rights to babies, toddlers, children and teenagers.

The word "tabled" must mean something different in Telegraph English than it does in the English language I know.


um. no. it means they've just put the law on the back burner.
 
2008-07-10 09:33:02 AM  
pnjunction:When I got my license at 16 I didn't have to drive far to find someone willing to buy booze, cigarettes, porn or hook me up with things that nobody of any age is supposedly responsible enough to handle.

shhh. the legislators think the age limits work.
 
2008-07-10 09:33:51 AM  
I think parents should have a half/vote proxy for each of their children until they can vote for themselves.

Major problem with politics today is quick fixes with no longer term consideration. Increasing the voting power of people with children will ensure that we plan further ahead.
 
2008-07-10 09:34:30 AM  
i149.photobucket.com
Nnyesss - that being said, said `infants' will still have to lower their maturity level to participate in Fark political threads with regards to the US presidential election.
 
2008-07-10 09:34:30 AM  
NPComplete:Vagina....it's not a voting booth.

/although a polling station, maybe


FTW
 
2008-07-10 09:34:45 AM  
DarthBrooks:TFA:Dozens of German politicians have tabled a new law to extend voting rights to babies, toddlers, children and teenagers.

The word "tabled" must mean something different in Telegraph English than it does in the English language I know.


There are two uses of the word tabled, and they mean the opposite (one means to put something off for later, the other means to do it right away).

This almost caused a serious rift at one point in Allied negotiations during WWII when Brits suggested that something be 'tabled', but the Americans wanted to discuss it right away.

It got all the way up to Churchill and Roosevelt before one of them pointed out that both sides were of the same mind.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2008-07-10 09:34:57 AM  
Is this satire?

How about 20 as the voting age.
 
2008-07-10 09:35:03 AM  
mrshowrules:I think parents should have a half/vote proxy for each of their children until they can vote for themselves.

Major problem with politics today is quick fixes with no longer term consideration. Increasing the voting power of people with children will ensure that we plan further ahead.


um. that sounds like a horrible idea to me. lets reward people with 20 kids!
 
2008-07-10 09:37:36 AM  
if it's anything like America the toddlers will be as informed as the typical adult voter on pretty much every issue...
 
2008-07-10 09:57:40 AM  
Pacifiers for some, no pacifiers for others, little novelty flags for all!
 
2008-07-10 09:58:00 AM  
Imagine all the ballots spoiled by drool, puke, and gumming...
 
2008-07-10 10:00:15 AM  
If they let senior citizens in Florida vote, why not infants? About the same level of awareness, competence and bladder control. Plus the infants will have to live with the consequences of their votes.
 
2008-07-10 10:06:06 AM  
How many babies will fit in a Volkswagon?

6 Million, if they're dead and Jewish.

/I'm so sorry for this one
 
2008-07-10 10:28:07 AM  
Voting is for babies, that's what I always say.
 
2008-07-10 10:39:14 AM  
magores:/I'm so sorry for this one

Yeah, you better be sorry for having such a lame-ass sense of humor, which is essentially worse than no farking sense of humor at all.
 
2008-07-10 10:46:24 AM  
Katie98_KT:


um. that sounds like a horrible idea to me. lets reward people with 20 kids!


Concur-this makes parents of minors more equal than the rest of the electorate.

/not just us unchilded who are farked by this
//empty nesters are screwed too
 
2008-07-10 10:51:21 AM  
magores:How many babies will fit in a Volkswagon?

6 Million, if they're dead and Jewish.

/I'm so sorry for this one


Honestly, I find that very, very offensive. My grandfather died in a concentration camp, you know.

...

Yeah, he tripped and fell out of a guard tower.
 
2008-07-10 11:12:46 AM  
Katie98_KT:mrshowrules:I think parents should have a half/vote proxy for each of their children until they can vote for themselves.

Major problem with politics today is quick fixes with no longer term consideration. Increasing the voting power of people with children will ensure that we plan further ahead.

um. that sounds like a horrible idea to me. lets reward people with 20 kids!


Not to many people have 20 kids anymore. A very large family these days is 3 or 4. When people vote for the future, it doesnt't represent a reward for themselves. People who vote for their current generation are the ones rewarding themselves.

I have two kids which is the norm. We would have 3 votes instead of 2 and I am most likely to vote on issues that will protect the future of my children (sustainable development, budget balancing, infrastructure investment). These issues are beyond right/left issues. They are about what is best for future generations.

Most of the problems in present day society are because previous voters and governments only cared about the here and now (oil crisis, national debt, failing infrastructure). If your parents (parents back then in general) would have more voter power, we would probably would have had governments that would have made longer term decisions and short-term sacrifices. The natives have saying that before you make any decision you should think of the next 20 generations.

The Chinese work off a 100 year plan which includes population control. Long term planning (supported by allowing votes from younger people) would probably favour efforts to control population increase rather than encourage it.

I would be happy if our society thought 1 generation ahead at least because that would be an improvement. We currently have policy decisions in the 2 to 10 year range. All people including those without kids will benefit by forward thinking policies.
 
B A
2008-07-10 11:14:07 AM  
At 18 the fed's allow people to sign a paper committing themselves to governmental indentured servitude. If you're old enough to put on a uniform & go to war you're old enough to vote/drive/drink/anything else(legal) you want & NO ONE should be able to deny those rights.
 
2008-07-10 11:26:49 AM  
mrshowrules:I would be happy if our society thought 1 generation ahead at least because that would be an improvement. We currently have policy decisions in the 2 to 10 year range. All people including those without kids will benefit by forward thinking policies.

Problem with that is religious nuts, and or uneducated mouthbreathers tend to have way more kids. We would give more votes tot he religious right, white trash and ghetto moms.
 
2008-07-10 11:57:40 AM  
May I suggest Baby Bingo?

IF you're from a farm state, you probably know how cow bingo works. This is the same, only with babies.
 
2008-07-10 12:05:35 PM  
The problem is, most ADULTS can't reason well enough to vote well and you want to extend it to 3yr olds? Can't wait to see the political ads for "children under 10"... That's such pure liquid stupid it dwarfs our entire 2008 political cycle -- which in an of it self is gaining enough weight to generate it's own gravity and weather.

The reality is, the human brain isn't fully developed until about the age of 18. Governments already have trouble making a rational decision, or even a common sense decision, or dealing with the real world... Yeah, we'll be sooo much better off allowing children to vote since they can certainly think farther ahead than the next toy, birthday, social event.

Though, liam76, I must say it's nice to see that bigotry is alive and well among you enlightened elitist gents: I see your self-proctology exam is going strong as well.
 
2008-07-10 01:05:22 PM  
johnwarfen:The problem is, most ADULTS can't reason well enough to vote well and you want to extend it to 3yr olds? Can't wait to see the political ads for "children under 10"... That's such pure liquid stupid it dwarfs our entire 2008 political cycle -- which in an of it self is gaining enough weight to generate it's own gravity and weather.

The reality is, the human brain isn't fully developed until about the age of 18. Governments already have trouble making a rational decision, or even a common sense decision, or dealing with the real world... Yeah, we'll be sooo much better off allowing children to vote since they can certainly think farther ahead than the next toy, birthday, social event.

Though, liam76, I must say it's nice to see that bigotry is alive and well among you enlightened elitist gents: I see your self-proctology exam is going strong as well.


Actually you are the one that sounds like a bigot. You appear to basically be saying anyone under the age of 18 is complete moran, but the second that 18th birthday hits they are... Well actually, you basically say they are still complete moran's, but with "developed brains". WTF EVER.

I say ABOUT DANG TIME for this law. It's format probably isn't optimal, but the basic principal is sound and valid. Children have absolutely NO say in this world, yet they are the ones who have to live in it the longest. Every day decisions are made that will directly or indirectly impact their lives and they have NO influence over these decisions at all. Can we rely on each individual child to vote for the best candidates or policies? No! But then we can't rely on ANYONE to do that except by blind chance anyway. However, we can rely on kids to voice their OPINION just like the rest of us.

Personally I would like to see kids age 10 and over given the right to vote in the US, and I would like to see parents given an additional half-vote (effectively a full vote as a couple) for each of their children that are registered, with registration being available as soon as the child has a social security card.

I know this sounds extreme, but I actually can't think of one reason why children who will likely be citizens for the next 40 to 100 years should not have the same basic rights as anyone else. Yes we need to PROTECT them from certain things by taking relevant rights away until the children are old enough, but if there is nothing to protect children from when it comes to voting rights, so they should have those rights.
 
2008-07-10 01:31:42 PM  
liam76:mrshowrules:I would be happy if our society thought 1 generation ahead at least because that would be an improvement. We currently have policy decisions in the 2 to 10 year range. All people including those without kids will benefit by forward thinking policies.

Problem with that is religious nuts, and or uneducated mouthbreathers tend to have way more kids. We would give more votes tot he religious right, white trash and ghetto moms.


Ghetto mom's rarely vote and we just have to hold the elections Sunday morning to filter out the nut jobs. Seriously though, some of the fundamental Christian stuff in the US is scary but I don't see why the long term goals (planning ahead) has to be incompatible with Christian ideals but you have a point.
 
2008-07-10 03:54:16 PM  
simpsonfan:this must be satire, even the Germans aren't stupid enough to let babies vote.

Though there are some preteen kids who are actually aware and knowledgable enough on current events and issues who could be trusted to vote intelligently. It would be too hard to qualify them as voters, because whatever party the kid didn't like would sue someone.


Based on how Americans have been voting in previous elections you would probably elect better leaders by having a chimp throw his feces at a wall pasted with candidate names and still do better than what you have to day.
 
2008-07-10 10:13:34 PM  
The voting age should be dropped to 14 (or less), and here's why:

Nobody should be sent off to die in a war by a president they were never allowed to vote for.

Most people wait 1-2 election cycles before they vote for the first time anyway.

Many of our country's problems have been caused by old people stealing from, and passing the buck to the younger generations.

At a minimum, if people under 18 can't vote, then social security and welfare recipients shouldn't be allowed either.
 
2008-07-11 07:30:54 AM  
mrshowrules:Katie98_KT:mrshowrules:I think parents should have a half/vote proxy for each of their children until they can vote for themselves.

Major problem with politics today is quick fixes with no longer term consideration. Increasing the voting power of people with children will ensure that we plan further ahead.

um. that sounds like a horrible idea to me. lets reward people with 20 kids!

Not to many people have 20 kids anymore. A very large family these days is 3 or 4. When people vote for the future, it doesnt't represent a reward for themselves. People who vote for their current generation are the ones rewarding themselves.

I have two kids which is the norm. We would have 3 votes instead of 2 and I am most likely to vote on issues that will protect the future of my children (sustainable development, budget balancing, infrastructure investment). These issues are beyond right/left issues. They are about what is best for future generations.

Most of the problems in present day society are because previous voters and governments only cared about the here and now (oil crisis, national debt, failing infrastructure). If your parents (parents back then in general) would have more voter power, we would probably would have had governments that would have made longer term decisions and short-term sacrifices. The natives have saying that before you make any decision you should think of the next 20 generations.

The Chinese work off a 100 year plan which includes population control. Long term planning (supported by allowing votes from younger people) would probably favour efforts to control population increase rather than encourage it.

I would be happy if our society thought 1 generation ahead at least because that would be an improvement. We currently have policy decisions in the 2 to 10 year range. All people including those without kids will benefit by forward thinking policies.


I came up with this idea years ago - extra votes for children. It's very easy to justify - these kids' lives are going to be affected for far longer than those of us older, AND the majority of our economic laws are incredibly biased towards making as much money per individual as possible, at the expense of allocating income per person - when a massive percentage of people cannot earn money to support themselves financially as they are children.
 
2008-07-11 04:09:40 PM  
If this were to happen in the States Dora would be our next president; at least if my daughter had anything to say about it.
 
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