FARK.com: (3723661) McCain touches third rail. RIP, McCain campaign

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		McCain touches third rail. RIP, McCain campaign (dailykos.com)		224
		More: Dumbass

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7408 clicks; posted to Politics » on 09 Jul 2008 at 2:56 PM | Favorite | share:

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Jamespoon		2008-07-09 01:06:34 PM

Why does he want to get rid of the SS? Isn't he a closet Nazi?

/Airball

GAT_00		2008-07-09 01:08:46 PM

Hmm, this conversation suddenly got back on track it appears.

Tacoby Bellisbury		2008-07-09 01:08:46 PM

burndtdan:no you don't. unless you mean the perspective of someone who generally has no idea what they're talking about and resorts to baseless ad hominem and strawman arguments.

You ahve your opinion, I have mine. Let's not let it get in the way of our friendship!

Besides, no one, including you, is right 100% of the time. Take everything you see in life with a grain of salt- it might help you in the long run

stargazer101		2008-07-09 01:09:31 PM

I really can't wait until they sit down for a debate. If you think this stuff is flowing out of his mouth now, just you wait.

EriksMom		2008-07-09 01:12:02 PM

GAT_00:Hmm, this conversation suddenly got back on track it appears.

Haha. It would appear that way. Anyway, I still doubt this will get past the DailyKos and appear on MSM anytime soon. So because of that I seriously doubt senior citizens, the people who this statement truly offends, will be hearing about it.

I_C_Weener		2008-07-09 01:12:21 PM

Karma Curmudgeon:Raise the retirement age,

Okay, you've delayed the inevitable. In 30 years do we extend the age of retirement again?

borrow until the demographics make it self-sustaining again.

Why borrow more to save a sinking ship? Demographic trends show fewer and fewer births and more old people hanging around. It is unlikely to change as long as the country is not a Third World Country.

Total additional cost is less than what we've committed for Iraq.

Strawman. Besides, if we had really done Iraq like previous wars, then the SS problem would be fixed when that generation of soldiers retired...the few that were left alive, that is.

VonKraut		2008-07-09 01:17:31 PM

Anyone who believes anything the Daily KOS says is an idiot. This is laughable.

R.A.Danny		2008-07-09 01:21:39 PM

sepuku2:Most really old people on SS are Democrats. I believe your political demographics are off a little.

FLORIDA!!!!!

GAT_00		2008-07-09 01:31:26 PM

VonKraut:Anyone who believes anything the Daily KOS says is an idiot. This is laughable.

Really? How about the video at the bottom where he says exactly what is quoted?

lexshine		2008-07-09 01:31:40 PM

Karma Curmudgeon		2008-07-09 01:31:54 PM

I_C_Weener:Okay, you've delayed the inevitable. In 30 years do we extend the age of retirement again? Why borrow more to save a sinking ship? Demographic trends show fewer and fewer births and more old people hanging around. It is unlikely to change as long as the country is not a Third World Country.

No. After the baby boomers die off, the current system becomes self-sustaining again.

Strawman. Besides, if we had really done Iraq like previous wars, then the SS problem would be fixed when that generation of soldiers retired...the few that were left alive, that is.

Not a strawman, it speaks to fiscal priorities. Certainly keeping our parents and grandparents housed, warm and fed is at least as important tilting at windmills and deserves at least as much fiscal attention.

Tacoby Bellisbury		2008-07-09 01:33:56 PM

GAT_00:VonKraut:Anyone who believes anything the Daily KOS says is an idiot. This is laughable.

Really? How about the video at the bottom where he says exactly what is quoted?

I think his point is: this is a non-issue, and anyone who thinks this is watergate-type stuff is an idiot

xanadian		2008-07-09 01:34:43 PM

Two Dogs Farking:Cagey B:EriksMom:WHARRRRGARRBBLLL

/WHARRGARBL
//wharrgarbl

To be honest, Social Security DOES need to be fixed. And yes, it could very well be a campaign-ender. Even though he's right. Doesn't matter. You just have to SOUND pretty to get elected.

With that having been said:

i249.photobucket.com

/wharrgarbl

arkansas		2008-07-09 01:36:07 PM

We don't need CHANGE...what is McCain thinking.

Procedural Texture		2008-07-09 01:41:18 PM

NO-one ever lost an election by appealing to the selfishness of voters.

_{/well, actually some did
//this idiot will, unless DieBold intervenes}

bulldg4life		2008-07-09 01:42:10 PM

Technically right things that take clarification for the general mass to read before they start railing on the "omg what is wrong with him" bandwagon are not needed in this election cycle.

Hey, at least he wasn't bitter about social security.

Somacandra		2008-07-09 01:50:50 PM

I wonder if Sen. McCain or Sen. Obama have considered analyzing the Social Security and Medicare issues from a population ecology perspective? I mean, with humans being K-selected species and all. It seems that social and biological science advisors could provide quotes for their town-hall meetings. I know its a political campaign and all, but since a lot of people have so much resent for the Bush Administration's open disdain for science, McCain and/or Obama could demonstrate their knowledge of the Baby Boom's effect on SS by discussing how America's top social scientists view it. Maybe they would agree with Sen. McCain and his assessment that its broken and wasn't working well in the first place.

Giblet		2008-07-09 02:03:43 PM

DeltaXi65:For fark's sake, that's NOT what he said.

"Americans have got to understand that we are paying present-day retirees with the taxes paid by young workers in America today. And that's a disgrace. It's an absolute disgrace, and it's got to be fixed."

That's what he said. Yes, that may be how Social Security has worked since the 30s, but that doesn't mean it's good. This is his lead in to a private account style system where the individual worker pays for his own Social Security, not someone else's. That's hardly a 'third rail' statement. It's not like he said "I pledge to end Social Security, screw old people." That would be a campaign ender.

It wouldn't work that way if Congress hadn't been using it for their personal piggy bank for the past few decades, and had allowed the SSA to grow the funds by investing in safe funds (oil, etc).

As it stands, it's a disgrace.

lionfish		2008-07-09 02:21:48 PM

DeltaXi65:For fark's sake, This is his lead in to a private account style system where the individual worker pays for his own Social Security, not someone else's.

Exactly. And I'd prefer this type of plan. I want the money I paid into social security BACK when I retire, and thanks to the current system the money I've paid in won't be there for me. That's bullcrap. McCain's personal account idea *is* better than the sham of a system we have now.

/and I'm a democratic liberal.

Tacoby Bellisbury		2008-07-09 02:36:16 PM

lionfish:Exactly. And I'd prefer this type of plan. I want the money I paid into social security BACK when I retire, and thanks to the current system the money I've paid in won't be there for me. That's bullcrap. McCain's personal account idea *is* better than the sham of a system we have now.

Yes, yes it is.

I feel bad for kids paying into it who will NEVER see a dime from it.

Darconix		2008-07-09 02:57:53 PM

It is a disgrace. So is Subby, for linking to Kos.

CravenMorehead		2008-07-09 02:59:37 PM

Not enough of a disgrace for him to not collect his. What a douche bag.

Duke Phillips' Singing Bears		2008-07-09 03:00:13 PM

Social Security does need to be fixed. I mean, I'm no huge McCain fan, but I really don't see anything so terrible about what he said.

Relatively Obscure		2008-07-09 03:01:16 PM

I'm not sure how this would be "campaign-ending" in any way, regardless of whether he is right or wrong on the matter.

LocalCynic		2008-07-09 03:02:48 PM

Tacoby Bellisbury:What? He's actually making sense here.

So what is he going to do to change that? Allowing you to invest 5% or whatever in a "private account" isn't a change to social security. If his statement means anything more than mere words, he should advocate disbanding social security and telling old people to pay their own freight.

PowerSlacker		2008-07-09 03:02:55 PM

He's got my vote now.

Weaver95		2008-07-09 03:03:56 PM

Well shiat. McCain screwed up in reverse and said something that's true.

Not that I expect him to actually DO anything about it, but at least someone on the campaign trail actually looked at the real world and noticed it for a change.

Oakenshield		2008-07-09 03:05:20 PM

McCain voters love Social Security?

McCain voters hate Socialism?

Wait....

Relatively Obscure		2008-07-09 03:05:35 PM

PowerSlacker:He's got my vote now.

I especially liked his plan for fixing it.

"We're going to sit at a table. The end."

LocalCynic		2008-07-09 03:05:39 PM

DeltaXi65:This is his lead in to a private account style system where the individual worker pays for his own Social Security, not someone else's. That's hardly a 'third rail' statement. It's not like he said "I pledge to end Social Security, screw old people."

Uh, private accounts ARE a pledge to end Social Security. It's fundamentally impossible to pay for social security by moving to entirely private accounts, without simply printing boatloads of money. Social security is essentially like an annuity.

And honestly, if he's going to argue that it's a "disgrace" that people pay into social security, isn't it also a disgrace that Uncle Sam is forcing you to take a portion of your paycheck and invest it? What if I need that money to pay off a mortgage right now? Or for that matter, what if I just want to buy a new TV or something?

oldfarthenry		2008-07-09 03:06:02 PM

I, too enjoy taking a big dump at the dining room table.

(Don't shiat where you eat, Johnny)

depmode98		2008-07-09 03:06:12 PM

well.. McCain said it was a "disgrace" because young people are forced to pay for the benefits that the elderly are receiving. Strange that he has a problem with this, because we're essentially funding the Iraq war in the same way. The only difference is, when the young people have to pay it off they are also going to have to pay it back with interest to the chinese.

hatch500		2008-07-09 03:06:26 PM

tgregory:wait... saying "social security is a disgrace" is campaign ending?

social security is a disgrace. it's a train wreck, it's socialism, and it's a mess.

THIS. The guy is a crazy old pancake swallowing coot most of the time, but he is dead-on correct.

USP .45		2008-07-09 03:07:15 PM

Wow, the kosmonauts and their Fark allies have actually gone pathological.

Somehow they think a massive government bureaucracy that is riddled with fraud, has questionable Constitutionality, underperforms private pensions, discriminates, enables identity theft, and can't even support itself financially is a huge success.

Weaver95		2008-07-09 03:07:50 PM

LocalCynic:Uh, private accounts ARE a pledge to end Social Security. It's fundamentally impossible to pay for social security by moving to entirely private accounts, without simply printing boatloads of money. Social security is essentially like an annuity.

And honestly, if he's going to argue that it's a "disgrace" that people pay into social security, isn't it also a disgrace that Uncle Sam is forcing you to take a portion of your paycheck and invest it? What if I need that money to pay off a mortgage right now? Or for that matter, what if I just want to buy a new TV or something?

we need to get rid of social security completely. We can phase it out, and ease our way out of it if that would make you feel better...but it has GOT TO GO!

rob.d		2008-07-09 03:08:17 PM

McCain is right, but again I don't think he worded his response correctly.

The problems with SS in the USA have been building up for many years and have been ignored by DC.

A decade or more ago SS rates should have BEEN INCREASED for all workers to create an extra pool of funds to help SS get over the tide of retiring boomers. That extra money, along with all SS should be untouchable, and not part of the general revenues.

Instead the problem has been ignored and there is no money.

Any solution (let's be real, it needs to be looked at) won't be popular. Likely a combo of lower payouts for retirees and higher rates for younger workers.

Dance		2008-07-09 03:08:17 PM

I guess it's "Campaign Ending" because it's going to lose him older voters, but I feel he's dead-on.

/still voting Obama/Empty Suit 08 - the change of clothes he can fill.

FitzShivering		2008-07-09 03:08:43 PM

So McCain said something with which I agree. It's rare, but I'm not exactly sure it's as shocking as Kos makes it out to be. Anyone with half a brain will tell you Social Security sucks, including those people who are living off it.

dogfood		2008-07-09 03:08:53 PM

I know how to fix it.

Lock Box.

Spanky_McFarksalot		2008-07-09 03:09:08 PM

Can we link to the quote that will actually end his campaign instead of the one saying social security needs to be fixed?

Thanks.

Passive Aggressive Larry		2008-07-09 03:09:28 PM

Damn it, I was hoping he said something racist. I hate McCain, but this is probably one of the last things I would get on his case about. Fortunately, I see from the comments of my fellow farkers and even fellow liberals that most people understand that it is a broken system, and that there are more important fish to fry right now.

Fart_Machine		2008-07-09 03:09:41 PM

Karma Curmudgeon:It's not a retirement program people. It was never meant to be one. It's an insurance program.

This.

Not to mention threatening Social Security is sure to win points with the old folks who make up his prime voting block. Stick a fork in him, he's done.

Paedophile_Deluxe		2008-07-09 03:09:57 PM

Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill...

The Homer Tax		2008-07-09 03:09:58 PM

Oakenshield:McCain voters love Social Security?

McCain voters hate Socialism?

Wait....

If McCain wants the old people vote, he's shooting himself in the foot to advocate disbanding Social Security. This is a case where he's right, but he's making a mistake to say it.

TheGreyPiper		2008-07-09 03:11:32 PM

I love seeing the kos get hysterical.

jjorsett		2008-07-09 03:12:27 PM

Ponzi Scheme (new window). I think the public is increasingly becoming aware that Social Security as currently implemented is untenable. I give McCain credit for having the guts to say so.

ipsofacto		2008-07-09 03:12:50 PM

What isn't an absolute disgrace these days?

SeismicJizzer		2008-07-09 03:13:07 PM

oh for farks sake people have been claiming the end for SS since te 70's but each year my gramps gets his check on time every month. Stop believing the bullshiat that SS is not going to last.

/

EsteeFlwrPot		2008-07-09 03:13:42 PM

"Americans have got to understand that we are paying present-day retirees with the taxes paid by young workers in America today. And that's a disgrace. It's an absolute disgrace, and it's got to be fixed."

I hate to say it but I agree with him. The problem is how we should go about fixing it.