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(The New York Times)   As more parents decide to raise their children in the city, they are shocked to find that their downstairs neighbors generally don't like the pitter patter of little snowflake feet   (nytimes.com) divider line 94
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2557 clicks; posted to Business » on 06 Jul 2008 at 1:13 PM (6 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2008-07-06 11:32:16 AM
How can they even hear the kids feet over the jackhammers, Manolo Blahniks, recycling trucks, sirens, canines and air-conditioning systems?
 
2008-07-06 11:42:29 AM
"As more"? You've had cities with towering apartment blocks for a hundred years now and people are only just beginning to figure this out?
 
2008-07-06 11:49:28 AM
And this is why I am happy not to be living in an apartment again. GOD I hated that. When I lived on the top floor it was all well and good that I didn't have upstairs neighbors, but my horizontal neighbors would encourage their kids to play (noisily) in the hall when they (the neighbors) wanted peace and quiet inside their own apartments. Great, kids throwing sh*t and running down an uncarpeted hallway with concrete walls! My bedroom window was right in front of the elevator, too, where the most traffic was. Bastards.

Then I lived directly below a large Korean family (in Korea). I can't tell you how many times I found myself banging on the ceiling with a broomstick at 1AM because the kids were STILL playing "jump like a goddamn meth-addled elephant."

Now I could stand to strangle one of my townhouse neighbors who thinks it's great fun to rev his straight-piped motorcycle at 6AM. He kindly pulls the motorcycle out of his garage so he doesn't wake his family -- but that puts it directly in line with my own bedroom. Jackass. At least it's not kids.
 
2008-07-06 11:55:22 AM
I don't like the stomp-stamp of my upstairs neighbor's big feet.
 
2008-07-06 12:13:41 PM
I grew up in a NYC apartment so I'm getting a kick out of this.

Seriously, when we had our first child, we moved to a house pretty darn quick. As much as I loved living in the city, I hated the lack of storage and privacy as a child, not to mention having to be quiet because of the neighbors. I lived that once & didn't feel like repeating it even though the building my wife and I were living in was fairly kid friendly.

/we ran down our carpeted hallway or up and down the stairs in bad weather because we couldn't run in the apartment
//should've bought a house with a soundproof basement
 
2008-07-06 12:21:53 PM
I grew up in the suburbs with a twin and the last thing my parents allowed was noise. We grew up to be quiet and gentle people. My current roommate slams doors and cabinets, shouts on the phone, and constantly wakes me up. He sees nothing wrong with this at all. I think it is damn inconsiderate.

We live in a high rise in the city and my upstairs neighbors not only moved in with a kid that constantly runs back and forth they installed wood farking flooring. I complained and was basically told I was an asshole.

I pay a fortune for my place and I feel like I deserve not to be bothered by my neighbors.
 
2008-07-06 12:23:02 PM
I'm raising a kid (13 months) in one of the world's great cities, and everyone in our building is really cool about it, even though he's the only baby/toddler in the house. So screw all you uptight people. If you don't want neighbors, GTFO.
 
2008-07-06 12:28:07 PM
Two Dogs Farking:I'm raising a kid (13 months) in one of the world's great cities, and everyone in our building is really cool about it, even though he's the only baby/toddler in the house. So screw all you uptight people. If you don't want neighbors, GTFO.

Actually, that's not how it works: if you don't want to deal with neighbors who are upset that you're invading their privacy with your noise, GTFO.

There's one simple rule to living in a space near other people: you don't have the right ot disturb their normal use of their living space. You don't have the right to make noise so loud that it disturbs them, nor do they have the right to do so to you.

Good luck with your kid, but if you're raising it with the sense of entitlement you just busted out with, I can't imagine you're going to succeed.

If you want neighbors, treat them neighborly, which includes keeping your kid from being a terror, just as it includes them politely asking you to keep it down if you occasionally fail to keep the child quiet.
 
2008-07-06 12:42:26 PM
TFA: It's nerve-racking to be constantly shushing my kids and not letting them be normal kids in the morning

So you may have to actually teach your kids a lesson? About real life?

Shut the hell up inside, be as crazy as you want outside. Simple. Special bonus: now they'll actually want to go outside.
 
2008-07-06 12:45:17 PM
But what bothers her the most, she said, is the sound of the children running - "they don't walk, ever," she says - particularly before 8 a.m., when she gets up.

Maybe you should be like the rest of the normal working world and get up before 8am.
 
2008-07-06 01:00:59 PM
KaponoFor3:Maybe you should be like the rest of the normal working world and get up before 8am.

Everyone should work the exact same hours in order to be normal?
My landlord (upstairs) works 10:30-9:00, why should he get up before 8:00 if he doesn't have to?
 
2008-07-06 01:03:44 PM
RubyRed:KaponoFor3:Maybe you should be like the rest of the normal working world and get up before 8am.

Everyone should work the exact same hours in order to be normal?
My landlord (upstairs) works 10:30-9:00, why should he get up before 8:00 if he doesn't have to?


Nah, not really. I was just being snarky. If parents want to move into apartments, then they should keep their kids on a relatively short lease. If they want their kids to be able to have freedom to be loud and "be kids", then maybe they should live in a house where the little ones could run free and be wild. If you live in an apartment, you should live so that you don't infringe upon anyone else's enjoyment of their home as well. Obviously this doesn't apply to those ultra-sensitive people. A little respect on both sides would likely go a long way.
 
2008-07-06 01:17:45 PM
Arise Chicken:I grew up in the suburbs with a twin and the last thing my parents allowed was noise.

You mean there's now an evil 'fro out there running amok now that you've killed yours?

/top floor
 
2008-07-06 01:19:00 PM
KaponoFor3:If parents want to move into apartments, then they should keep their kids on a relatively short lease.

Parents should always keep their children on a short leash. Children don't know how to behave in polite society and it is the responsibility of the parents (who theoretically know how to navigate adult society) to regulate and guide the child's behavior.

It's no more appropriate for a child to raise a ruckus in your suburban home than it is for them to do so in an apartment. The latter carries consequences for others, but they're both inappropriate.

Ruckus is for outside.
 
2008-07-06 01:23:36 PM
The meme ruined the headline. Would have been better without the 'snowflake'.
 
2008-07-06 01:30:51 PM
Wait, so little children make too much noise, but the large adults walking around in every apartment make none?

If you're living in apartments, get used to noise. You are high on something if you think it's going to be peace and quiet.
 
2008-07-06 01:33:54 PM
All I know is I grew up in a house, and if I would have made the kind of farking noise that the kid upstairs makes, my mom would have beat my ass. My upstairs neighbor lets her 3 year old ride a farking big wheel back and forth on the wood floors at 4 in the goddamn morning. The house is for quiet. No screaming, no running, no riding a farking big wheel.

But if you want to let your kid run rampant because you can't be bothered to take the kid outside, fine. I reserve the right to listen to metal at 3am to drown out the sound of your damn kid.
 
2008-07-06 01:33:56 PM
Banacek:Wait, so little children make too much noise, but the large adults walking around in every apartment make none?

If you're living in apartments, get used to noise. You are high on something if you think it's going to be peace and quiet.


Several apartments that I lived in were very quiet. It's not really too unreasonable to expect your neighbors to be courteous.
 
2008-07-06 01:38:55 PM
"..they are shocked to find that their downstairs neighbors generally don't like the pitter patter of little snowflake feet"

No, the upstairs nighbors are shocked to find out the downstairs neighbors generally don't know dick about kids. But the vast majority of people on this planet have kids, so I'm pretty cool with telling the yuppie-somethings on the first floor to suck it.

DNRTFA, but if that's what Subby is going to bring to the table, I'll respond in kind.

/Insert deuchebag award for Subby's use of an overused and OLD cliche'
//Why Farkers think the "Little Snowflake" comments are original or even funny is beyond me
///I don't even like most kids...FWIW
 
2008-07-06 01:39:04 PM
Banacek:You are high on something if you think it's going to be peace and quiet.

Every apartment I've lived in has been full of peace and quiet. Once- once- the neighbors had a loud party past 11PM on a Sunday night. That's about a year of living in Pittsburgh, two years of living on a busy street in Albany, NY (you couldn't hear the street from my apartment, somehow) and a year of living on a quiet street in Troy, NY. Oh, there was also a year in Kingston, which is technically a city, but we were renting a house, not an apartment. That was noisy as hell, but that's what 3AM Halo parties do.

Silvara:But if you want to let your kid run rampant because you can't be bothered to take the kid outside, fine

See, that's the thing. People who live in cities seem to ignore the fact that there is an outside. There's lots of outside to play with in the cities.
 
2008-07-06 01:43:17 PM
Sumari:No, the upstairs nighbors are shocked to find out the downstairs neighbors generally don't know dick about kids.

Kids should not run indoors. Apartment or otherwise, it is not the setting for horseplay. Anyone who says otherwise probably doesn't know dick about kids or is the sort of parent that is the reason the snowflake cliche was created.
 
2008-07-06 01:44:01 PM
t3knomanser:Ruckus is for outside.

You must have been real fun as a kid.
 
2008-07-06 01:46:27 PM
ceejayoz:t3knomanser:Ruckus is for outside.

You must have been real fun as a kid.


Dude, there IS no outside.
 
2008-07-06 01:46:44 PM
Glad I live in the single room apartment building at my complex. Not many families opt for the one bedroom units. Far away from the pool, and all my neighbors are great. Quiet building, good insulation between units. Love it and my neighborhood but the bastards keep raising rent. Will probably end up buying a house next year.

I don't mind when a noisy neighbor moves in anyway. A couple have come and gone but I understand that will happen when living in a community. Rotating shift with night shift duties a few months a year gets one used to ignoring noises.
 
2008-07-06 01:52:07 PM
ceejayoz:You must have been real fun as a kid.

What's unusual about "ruckus is for outside"? Inside, you play video games, read, do mad science experiments in your closet and hope your mom doesn't find out and you don't burn the house down. Outside, you ride bikes, climb trees, and kill neighborhood dogs so you can chop off their heads for your grisly experiments in the aforementioned closet.
 
2008-07-06 01:54:25 PM
ceejayoz:t3knomanser:Ruckus is for outside.

You must have been real fun as a kid.


I actually agree with ceejayoz. When we were kids in the 70's and early 80's, my sister and I were expected to be quiet and well-behaved inside the house. Outside we could holler and run amok. If we were in restaurants or stores we were expected to behave.

We were also allowed to go places by ourselves, ride bikes, and just be kids outside.

A lot of parents today (not all) seem to think "OMG Michael Jackson will eat my kid!" and don't let their kids spend time by themselves away from them. I see this in my own family, and it drives me nuts. The way my aunts treat their kids borders on oppressive. And they let them run wild in the house and in public and expected us to deal with it.

If you are living in the big, scary city don't raise kids there. That's what suburbs are for. Kids need yards, just like dogs.
 
2008-07-06 02:00:32 PM
This is why I think that apartment complexes should be allowed to discriminate on the basis of children. Cities could require a paid license in order to discriminate, with the profits going to fund schools. In the same way liquor licenses can be restricted with respect to density, make sure that not too many licenses are handed out, ensuring that entire neighborhoods or cities do not become kid-unfriendly. Require landlords to honor a lease in the event of childbirth for the duration of the lease or 6 months, whichever comes last, to allow ample time for relocation.

People should not be forced to deal with noisy children, likewise, children should not be forced to sit silently in their own homes. If childless folks can shell out a little extra each month for the privilege, let them. Its a more civil solution than having lawyers sending threatening letters about kids being kids.
 
2008-07-06 02:03:29 PM
t3knomanser:What's unusual about "ruckus is for outside"?

I played with Brio trains and wood blocks as a kid. They fell down. It made loads of noise sometimes. Kids, when told to be quiet, will forget it within a few minutes, not to mention not understanding why it's necessary.

"Ruckus is for outside" is particularly difficult in a city like NYC where there is no outside in many spots. You can't exactly send your three year old out to Times Square to play.

Frankly, I wonder how many of the people biatching are people like this... biatching that parents brought their kids to a mid-morning showing of a children's movie.

Arise Chicken:I actually agree with ceejayoz.

Uh, you seem to be disagreeing.
 
2008-07-06 02:11:30 PM
FTA:"I try to be sympathetic but it's very hard for me to relate to them because I don't have children"

Funny, I don't have kids and I have no problem relating. But then again I grew up in a strange place called 'society'. It's full of families, children and people other than myself. Strange I know.
 
2008-07-06 02:11:31 PM
ceejayoz:Uh, you seem to be disagreeing.

I named the wrong person.
 
2008-07-06 02:14:27 PM
ceejayoz:You can't exactly send your three year old out to Times Square to play.

Why not? Times Square is Disney NYC at this point. Obviously, a three year old shouldn't be left unsupervised in public, but a three year old shouldn't be left unsupervised in the yard either.

Captain Crunk:children should not be forced to sit silently in their own homes.

There's a perfectly happy medium here. A child does not need to sit silently, but they need to keep their activity at a respectful volume. No yelling or running in the house is not exactly an egregious restriction on childhood. Most of us grew up under that exact restriction.

ceejayoz:Frankly, I wonder how many of the people biatching are people like this

Bah, don't listen to the Child Free wackjobs. Anybody that needs to turn a perfectly reasonable choice into a sub-culture/support group has serious validation issues.
 
2008-07-06 02:19:57 PM
t3knomanser:There's a perfectly happy medium here. A child does not need to sit silently, but they need to keep their activity at a respectful volume. No yelling or running in the house is not exactly an egregious restriction on childhood. Most of us grew up under that exact restriction.

That's what I grew up with and my roommate didn't: don't be an asshole.
 
2008-07-06 02:22:02 PM
t3knomanser:There's a perfectly happy medium here. A child does not need to sit silently, but they need to keep their activity at a respectful volume. No yelling or running in the house is not exactly an egregious restriction on childhood. Most of us grew up under that exact restriction.

Exactly. I know the kid upstairs is going to make noise sometimes, anyone will. And I have no problems with the kid running around (like she's doing at this exact moment) in the living room and the kitchen above us in the middle of the afternoon. But running around screaming like a banshee at 2-3-4 and 5am? No, sorry. Not OK. I wouldn't have a loud party at 3am on Sunday in my backyard out of respect for the people in my building and neighboring buildings. Why should I suddenly accept hearing "MOM MOM MOM MOM AGGGHHHHHHHHHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE *stompstompstompstompthumpstomp*" at 3am on a Sunday because it's a child?
 
2008-07-06 02:22:14 PM
In my apartment block, I've had more issues with the noise from the upstairs apartment than from the people that live in it.

I know from about 6:30 to 7:30 PM I'll hear the kids upstairs run about - getting their bath, getting in their pajamas, playing a bit before bed. Not a big deal. However, this couple had a water hammer in their kitchen faucet that drove me bats for three months - sounded like a jackhammer being run right over my head when they would open the cold water tap at anything less than full.

Finally, I had the maintenance man in to look at the stove in my apartment when the upstairs neighbor turned on that faucet - and told him he'd better dispatch someone to fix it before I went off the rails and took an axe to the upstairs plumbing.

They replaced the faucet. Blissful silence, other than the pre-bedtime hour. I can deal with that.

There has to be a compromise. Parents can teach an older child to walk softly across an apartment floor. Heavily padded rugs can be used in the case of toddlers. Ask the neighbor for a schedule to minimize inconvenience on them, but the neighbor has to realize that sometimes things happen off-schedule. Life isn't always neat time tables and happy, shiny people. Children are like puppies and need to be properly trained and socialized.

The things that need to be remembered:

1) The couple with the kids will produce a bit more noise that the couple in their 80's that used to occupy the apartment. This has been a fact of life since the days of cave dwelling. Get used to it.

2) The hallway is not a playground for your darling Billy and Mandy. Disengage yourself from your notebook PC and take them to the park, wear them down and give your neighbors some quiet time. They will appreciate it.

3) Cities are crowded. Our individual cages are our sanctuaries. Attempt to minimize your intrusions on others and everyone will be happier.
 
2008-07-06 02:28:33 PM
Living in apartment blocks sucks.
 
2008-07-06 02:30:01 PM
Used to live beneath people whose children had a favourite game : run as fast a possible, smash into a wall, and shriek. It was like hippos having a gladiator contest while baboons cheered. Then the older kid got a drum kit. Oh boy. I can also say living below a hooker who always brought work home, drug addled techno freaks who created domestic disturbances, and people who cook fish every night is also not so thrilling

I've got a very good baby who rarely cries. But there's no way I'd be crazy enough to try to live over other people when she gets older. I know what it's like.
 
2008-07-06 02:30:23 PM
Those who have never lived under children who're up past midnight, every night, running and screaming, have no idea what kind of hell it is.

/moved before something bad happened
 
2008-07-06 02:34:40 PM
People who choose to live in apartments have no right to complain about noise.

If you choose to live in a packed city you have to deal with noise.

If you don't like it, move.

I lived in an apartment once that had a bunch of rednecks that would pull their TV out into the courtyard and watch NASCAR all day on Sunday. They would get progressively louder and drunker. One of them had a speed lab in his bathroom and he would stay up for days jamming Tool at full blast.

I got fed up and moved.
 
2008-07-06 02:42:16 PM
i hated living in a basement apartment. The people who lived upstairs were very rude. They always seemed to be running from 1-3am , that or tackling refridgerators. One time they had a party, and the noise was unbearable, but there was screaming and yelling, and then we heard gunshots in the street, followed by tons of cops. This apartment was actually only 30ft off campus, but still remember there are people below you!
 
2008-07-06 02:47:30 PM
Two Dogs Farking: I'm raising a kid (13 months)

At 13 months, he doesn't weigh enough yet to cause a huge disturbance. Wait until he's 4-5 or so.
 
2008-07-06 02:49:33 PM
RagingLeonard:If you choose to live in a packed city you have to deal with noise.

Bullshiat. As I said earlier, I've never had a noise problem in any apartment I've had.
 
2008-07-06 02:58:56 PM
I'd like to see an article that is a bit more sympathetic to the other side - The people without kids underneath the family with kids, and to really hear their side of it. The "I try to make my kids walk, not run" balanced with "I think they play basketball up there."

I've been the underneighbor. And no, I don't have kids. But there was a lot that just annoyed me. The game of 'run up and down the hall', the game of 'jump up and down on the floor', and the basketball. Plus the favorite children's game of 'screech as loud as you can.'

It'll be interesting to see how it ultimately plays out, and how many lawsuits start up.
 
2008-07-06 02:59:44 PM
Never live in an apartment building that does not have:

1) MANDATORY wall to wall carpeting. As in, we will fine and then kick your ass out if you try to tear it out to put in trendy hardwood.

2) Double pained windows.

3) Concrete, not plaster, walls.

Also, never live in a jurisdiction with rent control or section 8s. Yeah, it's classist and possibly racist, but your civil rights end where my good nights sleep begins.

As for the law, It should be that the space you pay for is inviolate. Sadly, in many jurisdictions, the tenant is king, even if he/she is ripping off the landlord (lying about the number of people on the lease, damaging the property) and making life hell for the neighbors (noise, criminal acivity).

/impact noise sucks
//for those in metro DC, Dittmar FTW!
 
2008-07-06 02:59:55 PM
People who choose to live in apartments have no right to complain about noise.

I live in an apartment because I'd have to double my income to afford a house. Welcome to reality.
 
2008-07-06 03:11:47 PM
Subby can go fark himself. What the apartments are not soundproof? Subby just found that out? We can hear subby's 24x7 Air Supply and subby's penis pump working?

But subby doesn't like it when the people upstairs get off the couch?

Subby can go fark himself.
 
2008-07-06 03:23:19 PM
Not a problem in my apartment building. No one under the age of 12 is allowed and there is a maximum of 3 people per unit. It's very quiet most of the time.
 
2008-07-06 03:27:19 PM
I'm about to murder the coont upstairs and her douchebag boyfriend
 
2008-07-06 03:34:11 PM
Sumari:"..they are shocked to find that their downstairs neighbors generally don't like the pitter patter of little snowflake feet"

No, the upstairs nighbors are shocked to find out the downstairs neighbors generally don't know dick about kids. But the vast majority of people on this planet have kids, so I'm pretty cool with telling the yuppie-somethings on the first floor to suck it.

DNRTFA, but if that's what Subby is going to bring to the table, I'll respond in kind.

/Insert deuchebag award for Subby's use of an overused and OLD cliche'
//Why Farkers think the "Little Snowflake" comments are original or even funny is beyond me
///I don't even like most kids...FWIW


I too am awed by the result of sperm meeting egg.....we all bow down to the wonderous results of procreation.
 
2008-07-06 03:37:51 PM
Gish21:Not a problem in my apartment building. No one under the age of 12 is allowed and there is a maximum of 3 people per unit. It's very quiet most of the time.

If you're in the US and not in seniors-only housing, your apartment building is breaking the law.

"All residential rental properties must be offered to all applicants, including those with children, as federal and state legislation has virtually eliminated "adult only" residential housing except for certain HUD-certified seniors properties."
 
2008-07-06 03:39:48 PM
We lived above my grandparents in a 2-flat when I was a kid, and the noise we made running and falling on the floors upstairs was horrid for them. Now I am grown and living in a split-level home and MY darn kids drive me nuts making the same racket and worse in their bedrooms above my head. Grandparents revenged, circle of lie complete.
 
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