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(Oregon Live)   When it rains, it pours. Pacific NW has so much wind and hydro electricity that utilities are actually paying customers to use up power. Can't we get anything right anymore?   (oregonlive.com) divider line 161
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13426 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Jun 2008 at 11:39 AM (6 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2008-06-27 01:13:23 PM
HeadLever: meat0918: California can have more electricity to waste when they pry it from my cold, dead, electrocuted hands.

Don't for get the self-defeating hippies and NIMBYS from California. They really help out by opposing any new transmission lines or water pipeline project.


Oh, we've got that in Eugene, currently involving a hospital, and the local utility company that wants to move across town and upgrade it's facilities.

The twin city, Springfield, is gentrifying a tad, it has a more openness to business. Except for the strip club opening in downtown a few blocks from city hall and 1.5 blocks from a high school.

I believe Springtucky has the highest concentration of strip clubs per capita in the state.
 
2008-06-27 01:13:34 PM
Coyote: We'll see. PGE (That's Portland General Electric, not PG&E) is about to hike rates about 24% this winter, so I'm taking this article with a grain of salt.

That's because PGE is still stuck in the Enron debacle. I moved out to Forest Grove, which has a city owned electric utility. I pay only 4.9c/kWh, which makes my monthly bill about $25/mo, and it goes up to $35 in August when I have the AC cranked up. Yeah, its nice. It's cheaper than my phone bill.
 
2008-06-27 01:14:55 PM
HeadLever: Although, I will say that retrofitting a fish ladder on an existing concrete dam is generally much harder and more expensive than installing one in a dam that is in design.

Most folks are aware of it, but really, in this case we can not afford to skimp, we are talking about our fish, and PNW folks love their fish. We tread a slipperly slope, the folks i do work for do not offer to pay for any of the stuff they recomend, they simply collect data and relay it. A lot of the cases they review never make it to recomendation status due to the cost vs benefit makes it a impossible sell, the ladders on the other hand were felt to be justified.

Where did ya grow up that you had your first season in 30 years?
 
2008-06-27 01:15:14 PM
FeFiFoFark: first off- electricity doesn't sound that cheap there, I pay only $50/mo in Cleveland.

Second - Why aren't their transmission lines up to par? Better start investing in your infrastructure, assclowns.

And C: Why not build a water pipeline (viaduct) that channels any high water/overflow to the southwest, or other regions that are short on water?

goddamned, I'm a fricken genious!


"Genious" you are, the problem comes in that us PNWers simply don't like you enough to share our water with you.
 
2008-06-27 01:17:16 PM
genzoman: kasmel: A large part of the reason that Oregon has an energy surplus is due to the low population density vs. a much higher level of concern regarding carbon footprints per person.

Many Oregonians ride bikes or use public transportation.
Many Oregonians use wood stoves and use natural gas for heating and appliances.
Our cities aren't lit up with neon signs 24/7.
Whole cities use ugly sodium florescence street lights for their efficiency and longevity.

In short, we have more than enough energy because we're not living beyond our means.

CAUTION: SMUG ALERT


Haha! I watch cartoons too!!
 
2008-06-27 01:17:54 PM
For many many years my hometown has run its own electricity distribution company. The profits from the sale of electricity were used to supplement the general fund and keep property taxes lower.

Traditional, we had long term wholesale contracts with Idaho Power. 5 years ago, Idaho Power decided to try and muscle the community out of the business by going to year to year wholesale contracts with much worse margins. As a result the City did some negotiations and now we have a very favorable long term contract with Bonneville and Idaho Power is out.

Best part, City electric rates are now lower than the surrounding Idaho Power rates.

/hurray federally subsidized power
//boo hiss to greedy Idaho Power
 
2008-06-27 01:18:48 PM
Sounds like the perfect place to start using electric cars and give the excess juice to companies who provide charging facilities to employees. For free.
 
2008-06-27 01:19:08 PM
Screw you guys.
 
2008-06-27 01:19:15 PM
maudibjr: If are using oil heat, I would seriously consider looking into electric/geothermal. Big upfront cost, but oil heating is only going to get worse.

Natural gas isn't getting any cheaper either. It costs me much less to run the AC in the summer than it does the heater in the winter. One of the projects on my list is to switch the water heater from the standard natural gas heated tank to an electric, on demand system.
 
2008-06-27 01:23:01 PM
Joce678: Sounds like the perfect place to start using electric cars and give the excess juice to companies who provide charging facilities to employees. For free.

this will not last long, all this mess is the result of an Atypical winter, it is not likely we will have this again next year(though i am hoping).
 
2008-06-27 01:23:17 PM
FeFiFoFark: first off- electricity doesn't sound that cheap there, I pay only $50/mo in Cleveland.

That's because you're being subsidized for living in Cleveland. No one wants to live there.
 
2008-06-27 01:25:17 PM
Oh, woe! How will we ever produce hydrogen to drive cars. Let's drill more oil holes.
 
2008-06-27 01:25:20 PM
CapitolG: Where did ya grow up that you had your first season in 30 years?

Headwaters of the Salmon River in Idaho.
 
2008-06-27 01:28:43 PM
HeadLever: CapitolG: Where did ya grow up that you had your first season in 30 years?

Headwaters of the Salmon River in Idaho.


Awesome, I love the Salmon river, saddly you guys
(motorboat lobiests) feel it is relevent to tax boats that do not require boat ramp access, so I havent been in a few years. Just can not justify the expences of staying their and river passes.
 
2008-06-27 01:35:57 PM
ManBearPig: I live in western Idaho (I know, I know, no internets in Idaho), and while they don't pay us to use electricity, it is pretty damned cheap. The further south you go, the more expensive it gets.

Unpossible! Idaho is a myth
 
2008-06-27 01:36:46 PM
They should put on the hugest laser light show ever to the sound of Pink Floyd. It would surely impress the martians or fry their retinas, whichever works.
 
2008-06-27 01:41:50 PM
Why would we in the PNW want to send more power to people who choose to live in a region that can't sustain itself?

I don't think I would like my power bill going up because Californian utilities are willing to pay more for power.

Yep, I'm smug. Lets cut the powerlines headed out of the region. We could use the extra power for a huge rube goldburg-esq mouse trap that flings moving trucks coming up from california back to so-cal.
 
2008-06-27 01:44:14 PM
weiserfireman:

/hurray federally subsidized power
//boo hiss to greedy Idaho Power


I envy you, I'm an embittered Idaho power customer. I can't understand how Boise can have three dams less than 50 miles from it and still have the highest rates in Idaho. From what I understand most our dams in Idaho route power to Nevada/Vegas?
 
2008-06-27 01:47:43 PM
That's because PGE is still stuck in the Enron debacle.

Most of the NW electric companies were screwed when electricity was deregulated on the West Coast and Enron cornered spot markets -- forcing OR and WA utilities to pay high short-term rates only because CA was overloaded with demand. The Snohomish PUD is still fighting that contract in court, though it has had some notable success (and notable support from Sen. Patty Murray and Sen. Maria Cantwell).
 
2008-06-27 01:47:44 PM
NeuroticRocker: allegedly, if your house is green enough to put juice INTO the grid, the power company will pay you, but I don't see that happening.

its like ExxonMobil paying you for buying a hybrid


...If hybrids generated raw crude and piped it into ExxonMobil's refineries.
 
2008-06-27 01:51:04 PM
This is by far the best news i've heard all week. I pray to Joe that with innovative technology, progressive attitudes among Americans, and boosh long gone, we can turn this country around. Stories like this make you believe there is a possibility we won't be sucking the Saudi dick forever.
 
2008-06-27 01:51:41 PM
hell, let the Chinese deal with em.
 
2008-06-27 01:52:11 PM
nextse7en: Lets cut the powerlines headed out of the region. We could use the extra power for a huge rube goldburg-esq mouse trap that flings moving trucks coming up from california back to so-cal.

Hummm, you know we can afford to be smug because we partly power Cali right? you do know their money helps to infuse our low population density area to the point where we can afford cool stuff right? and lastly you are aware that the entirety of the US payed for the BPA and our leg up on the Green energy game right?
I am for shareing(selling)as long as we do not endanger ourselves, our land or the systems that allow us to live in a way that we(PNWers) have worked so hard to manintain.
 
2008-06-27 01:58:12 PM
Guess I'll heading up north with a bucket to get me some of this cheap power. Booyah!
 
2008-06-27 01:58:33 PM
meat0918: I believe Springtucky has the highest concentration of strip clubs per capita in the state.

With what, five strip clubs? That's why I always hate the "per capita" method, always leads to some pretty tortured math. Maybe you're correct technically, but counting just the suburb of Springfield in a metro area like Eugene is a little misleading. You've got a long way to go before you catch up to Portland's general perversion level. :)

/You can do it!
 
2008-06-27 02:04:25 PM
CapitolG: HeadLever: CapitolG: Where did ya grow up that you had your first season in 30 years?

Headwaters of the Salmon River in Idaho.

Awesome, I love the Salmon river, saddly you guys
(motorboat lobiests) feel it is relevent to tax boats that do not require boat ramp access, so I havent been in a few years. Just can not justify the expences of staying their and river passes.


I grew up far enough up the river where the only boats you could use were drift boats or simmilar types. And that assumes it is not a low-water year, in which case you would need to install wheels on your boat just to get down the river :)
 
OCB
2008-06-27 02:05:27 PM
Not sure if this has been asked yet, but any EE farkers out there know the practical limit (distance) of power transmission?
 
2008-06-27 02:08:49 PM
madmann: WaltzingMathilda: nutkick_42: Long long ago, I seem to remember a satire tag...

/and boobies on the main page
//but that's another rant

is this article satire? generally they have funny ads to give it away don't they? how can you tell?

boobies should be errrr-vrywhere.

Maybe because he's wrong. It's not satire. It's the Oregonian. Writers at the Oregonian do not have a sense of humor that they're aware of. Or that anyone else is aware of.

What made you think it was, nutkick_42? I always thought satire had to be at least mildly amusing... is there something inherently amusing about "too much power to dump"? Or do you just assume everything you read online is false?


Nope. I'm just a typical farker and drtfa. Also, I saw this just after getting up, and I wasn't reading properly. I saw Oregonian as a concatenation of Oregon and Onion (assumed it was a college version of the Onion, explaining why I drtfa). Add that to the too-good-to-be-true aspect of the power company paying people to use electricity and you've got the makings of satire.

/still want the satire tag and boobies back
 
2008-06-27 02:13:57 PM
HeadLever: I grew up far enough up the river where the only boats you could use were drift boats or simmilar types. And that assumes it is not a low-water year, in which case you would need to install wheels on your boat just to get down the river :)

No Kayakers? we need even less water than a Drift boat, My creek boat floats with me in it in under 8 inches of water.
 
2008-06-27 02:30:06 PM
Couldn't they use up their excess electricity to make hydrogen? Hydrogen as a fuel source would be easier to transmit long distances than raw electricity.
 
2008-06-27 02:30:25 PM
adragontattoo:
No you are a fricken retard. and it is genius.
A. you live in Cleveland, in fracking OHIO, need anyone say more? (born in Cinn)

--you live in Virginia - it sounds like vagina! and its full of inbred hillbilly knuclefarks. So you can just lick my ass.

B. uhh the Infrastructure is fine. Who honestly expects to be sending so much power OUT of state that they need to increase the amount of lines?
The infrastructure is not fine. Remember the outage seen from space ('05?). It can always be improved - and should be. It's called "The Future" - look into it.

C. It is about 1200 miles from Seattle to Vegas..
You want them to build a pipeline for 1200 miles just to supply the people that live in the DESERT with water?

I never said Vegas at all - anywhere closer, where they are low on water - Cali, Northern Nevada, Idaho - where-ever.

lose the attitude.
 
2008-06-27 02:33:04 PM
The Crepes of Wrath: FeFiFoFark: first off- electricity doesn't sound that cheap there, I pay only $50/mo in Cleveland.

That's because you're being subsidized for living in Cleveland. No one wants to live there.



from the guy who lives in Oklahomo.
 
2008-06-27 02:37:46 PM
NumbBunny: "Genious" you are, the problem comes in that us PNWers simply don't like you enough to share our water with you.

you don't have to share it with me... I live on a Great Lake, home to 20% of the worlds' fresh water supply!. I suggested you share it with dryer states to your south/west. It's the neighborly thing to do ya know.
 
2008-06-27 02:41:37 PM
CapitolG: No Kayakers? we need even less water than a Drift boat, My creek boat floats with me in it in under 8 inches of water.

Plenty of kayakers, but not alot of white water. Most folks head for the Payette or Middle Fork of the Salmon for this type of fun.
 
2008-06-27 02:45:00 PM
LouDobbsAwaaaay: Couldn't they use up their excess electricity to make hydrogen? Hydrogen as a fuel source would be easier to transmit long distances than raw electricity.

Not necessarily. Hydrogen has this terrible habit of diffusing out of confinement due to it's extremely small atomic mass. Compressing the gas makes this problem worse. Also, running around with tons of highly compressed hydrogen gas is not the safest thing to be doing. It can be done, but it is not as efficient or safe as you may think.
 
2008-06-27 02:48:02 PM
OK, to the guy talking about early snowmelt ....

It's almost JULY.

We're actually pretty darn late this year and have had not an exceptionally wet winter but a steady-wet winter which is much better. (2 years ago it was almost flooding in the Will. Valley like '96.)

In the 29 years I've been around and in the area it seems like Oregon follows a 3-year cycle of drought and wet. Unfortunately we never really prepare properly for the drought cycle from the wet cycle.

As for sending water down to the SW and L.A.

Hell no.

Double aw hell no.

Then entire west is still paying for the horror that is L.A. and the semi-stolen water rights that made it possible. Anyway if we had excess water we would be better off finding good transmission lines in state to move it to rivers like the Klamath to avoid salmon die-offs and keep the canals up and farmers happy.

And Oregon is pretty good at local power production. We've worked well with our scenery for hydroelectric and wind power in the north and east while in the south we've made use of large pockets of natural gas and geothermal.

/Mmmmmmmm, that's some good tasting smug with a side of California hate.
//Stay out of my state you McMansion jerks.
 
2008-06-27 02:50:42 PM
ultraholland: thelordofcheese: If you meet someone from another planet and he holds out his left hand, don't shake it. He might be made of anti-matter.

Or that could be the sign for intergalactic handjobs. You never know.


Well I never thought of that. You win!
 
2008-06-27 02:50:59 PM
HeadLever: LouDobbsAwaaaay: Couldn't they use up their excess electricity to make hydrogen? Hydrogen as a fuel source would be easier to transmit long distances than raw electricity.

Not necessarily. Hydrogen has this terrible habit of diffusing out of confinement due to it's extremely small atomic mass. Compressing the gas makes this problem worse. Also, running around with tons of highly compressed hydrogen gas is not the safest thing to be doing. It can be done, but it is not as efficient or safe as you may think.


That's an excellent idea LouDobbsAwaaaay! I've read lately about hydrogen storage in conjunction with another spongelike material/chemical in the tanks that prevents hydrogen from diffusing and even allows more of the gas to be "locked up" or stored in the material. Capital idea, sir!
 
2008-06-27 02:53:23 PM
FeFiFoFark: you don't have to share it with me... I live on a Great Lake, home to 20% of the worlds' fresh water supply!. I suggested you share it with dryer states to your south/west. It's the neighborly thing to do ya know.

Ha, don't I rember a bunch of mid-western Farkers get all up in arms when it was suggested that a pipeline be built from the Great Lakes to the Southwest to help out with the water crunch? Why yes, yes I do (new window).
 
2008-06-27 03:11:06 PM
HeadLever: Ha, don't I rember a bunch of mid-western Farkers get all up in arms when it was suggested that a pipeline be built from the Great Lakes to the Southwest to help out with the water crunch? Why yes, yes I do (new window).

Not only do I remember that thread, I posted in it. - I also remember it devolved into a "My geographical region can kick your geographical regions' ass" The larger point is what does this have to do with the price of wheat in China? If people think a pipeline from the PNW to southwestern/western states is absurd, who in their right mind would consider one from the Great Lakes to the same destination?

just sayin'
 
2008-06-27 03:36:25 PM
I, for one, would not send one volt of electricity or one cup of fresh water to California. If your bio-region can't support your population, then start killing each other in a savage battle for Darwinian supremacy.

//And sell the TV rights so we can watch.
 
2008-06-27 03:52:03 PM
Tear that hippy, unAmericam crap down and build coal plants.
 
2008-06-27 03:58:10 PM
Regular Chumpington: FuzzyNoNoseChimp: You know, there are ways to share electricity with neighboring regions. I'm sure there is some way to share this abundance of power with other states.

FTA: "And southbound transmission lines that are at capacity can't take the extra power California consumers otherwise would eagerly devour."


www.nbc.com

This breaking news just in- Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead.
And now our top story once again, for Star Trek fans:

www.smh.com.au


Southbound transmission lines are at capacity! They canna take the extra pouer!
We'er already givin' her all she's got!"
 
2008-06-27 04:06:35 PM
madmann: meat0918: I believe Springtucky has the highest concentration of strip clubs per capita in the state.

With what, five strip clubs? That's why I always hate the "per capita" method, always leads to some pretty tortured math. Maybe you're correct technically, but counting just the suburb of Springfield in a metro area like Eugene is a little misleading. You've got a long way to go before you catch up to Portland's general perversion level. :)

/You can do it!


Agreed, as we don't have a theater showing hentai next to a donut place.

And calling Springfield a suburb of Eugene is stretching it.

//mmm Voodoo donuts, powered by all that beautiful NW energy
 
2008-06-27 04:09:31 PM
When they had the brownout in Cali a few years ago they just about drained the lakes here to keep the AC going down south. The local communities almost went under from lack of tourism dollars. Then they raised my rates to help pay for it. Now there's an excess again I'll be waiting for my lower power bill.

/went from $60 to $90/mo.
//we leave the lights on to support the local economy.
 
2008-06-27 04:16:47 PM
FeFiFoFark: Not only do I remember that thread, I posted in it. - I also remember it devolved into a "My geographical region can kick your geographical regions' ass" The larger point is what does this have to do with the price of wheat in China? If people think a pipeline from the PNW to southwestern/western states is absurd, who in their right mind would consider one from the Great Lakes to the same destination?

just sayin'


Yeah, that was an epic thread. Many a hour was wasted there.

It makes no sense in either circumstance. The southwest is in a pickle and they need to figure out a solution, not pawn their problems off on other parts of the country.
 
2008-06-27 04:34:50 PM
Can we lower the astronomical subsidy given for wind farms now?

The NW may have low power bills but the entire country is paying for it.
 
2008-06-27 04:50:26 PM
redcup27: Can we lower the astronomical subsidy given for wind farms now?

The NW may have low power bills but the entire country is paying for it.


And the PNW has let the whole country float the green power for decades, and thats why i try and curb my "You cant have what is Mine" attatude.
now if you want to do that, you have to play fair, you going to cut subsidies to midwest corn farmers? I mean they are making boatloads of money, and do the same for big Oil(that way prices go up even more).
In defence of the BPA and the whole US fliping the bill, remember Alcoa (setup camp here, and made the US Billions and billions of dollars due to the affordable energy from BPA, i can tell you they did not keep all that alluminum in the PNW) addationaly most of the foods that come out of Cali are eaten by the whole states, and we are their backup power plant, so you do reep the rewards of said subsudies.
I will stop talking logicaly(although with poor spelling) and let you get back to your "My reagon could kick your regons butt" style arguments about who gets what from who.
 
2008-06-27 04:57:33 PM
redcup27: Can we lower the astronomical subsidy given for wind farms now?

The NW may have low power bills but the entire country is paying for it.


I'm all for ending as many government subsidies as possible.

That said, the PNW is also one of the only really stable region of the country in terms of catastrophes of nature. The northern states get blizzard conditions. Hurricanes all along the Gulf Coast. Flooding and tornadoes in the Midwest. Earthquakes in California. You get my drift.

And every year, I see Billy Bob Bumfark from Tornado Alley, Oklahoma, on my TV whining about how he lost his damn double-wide again.... seventh year in a row! "Thank God for FEMA!" Yet, we pay in at the same rate as the rest of the country. So pardon me while I pour myself a tall glass of not-give-a-fark about the skinny slice the PNW gets from the federal budget vs. annual "disaster" costs.
 
2008-06-27 05:39:15 PM
Quinzy: Wow is that dumb... they better be building more lines..

I've been biatching about that for years. Our energy grid is basically the same as it was 50 years ago. We could save a shiat load of energy simply by updating the grid nationwide.

But, it costs money and people don't understand long-term investments.
 
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