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(Flint Journal)   Having solved all other problems, police chief of America's third most dangerous city declares war on sagging pants   (mlive.com) divider line 161
    More: Asinine  
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6410 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Jun 2008 at 10:05 AM (6 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2008-06-27 11:11:44 AM  
It's so they don't have to be creative and try to solve real societal problems..
 
2008-06-27 11:12:10 AM  
Definitely going to lead to a lot of "your word against the officer's" type courtroom scenarios
 
2008-06-27 11:13:19 AM  
ga362: I just want to know where they buy those hats. Ya know with the bill on the back. And some even have the bill sewn on the side and even at 45 degrees. Help me people. Google isn't my friend on this one.

roflmao

/there's a shop at my local Mall called Lids that sells all kinds of hats. Mebbe you can special order the fancy reverse-bill ones there. :D
 
2008-06-27 11:16:19 AM  
can someone explain to me the whole, "sagging skinny jeans" thing?
 
2008-06-27 11:17:35 AM  
Progress
This is racial profiling, end of story.

I didn't know clothing had a race.

/Dumbass
 
2008-06-27 11:17:41 AM  
Sobrrr: If gangstas were smart, they'd join the military. They have the desire to belong to a group with a common cause, they don't mind violence, they already have the haircut AND they would get to use the big guns and get paid for it while they tour around the world, all the while, securing a brighter future for themselves and their country.

Some do, infact the military releases an annual report of current gang members in its ranks and the number has risen over the years. They do it for training, and the potential to make some deals that would be profitable (ie smuggling, theft of weapons, etc). Mostly though its the training, especially with armed combat. Granted its still a low percentage of all gang members, but they are sending more and more in officially.
 
2008-06-27 11:17:50 AM  
thanks for the choccy eye candy. :D
 
2008-06-27 11:18:54 AM  
I was at a meeting where the policy was announced. Someone asked about ultra short skirts. Before the Chief could reply, I said: "That's different". Butt cracks - NO. Micro-micro miniskirts - OK.

It's not a new law, BTW, they're just interpreting and enforcing the indecent exposure ordinance.


/ yeah, I live in Flint
// I speak softly & carry a loaded 45
 
2008-06-27 11:18:55 AM  
So, is Dicks going too far?

Or is Dicks not going far enough?


/hur hur. penis
 
2008-06-27 11:19:26 AM  
bigglady: thanks for the choccy eye candy. :D

/dayum. That was aimed at Trollomite. My bad.
 
2008-06-27 11:21:12 AM  
Khellendros: Just a note to those living outside of cities (you know, about 55% of the population): In mid and small town America, the bulk of the saggy pants crews are white. In number and percentage. Go visit any suburb or small town. The schools are 75% or more white, and a far greater percentage of white than nonwhite are wearing the stupid pants.

In cities, it's more racially slanted, but not in the bulk of the U.S.


90% of the population of the US lives in 10% of its geography, the remaining 90% of the geography is desert, forest, or farm land. So I do not believe that 55% live outside of cities, but then I count the suburbs as cities since um well they are.

Perhaps you meant inner cities. If that is the case then its likely that its more than 55% that live outside that.
 
2008-06-27 11:23:21 AM  
So far I have learned that baggie pants = gay prison street dru
g dealer and biz suites = white collar criminal.
 
2008-06-27 11:25:17 AM  
Wait, if they outlaw baggy pants, then only the outlaws will have baggy pants?
 
2008-06-27 11:25:26 AM  
Chief is stupid because there are better things for the cops to be doing.
People are stupid because they think the law targets black people.
Thugs are stupid because they think saggy pants are cool.
 
2008-06-27 11:26:37 AM  
trappedspirit: Wait, if they outlaw baggy pants, then only the outlaws will have baggy pants?

proof that only criminals wear baggy pants, and so it is probably cause!
 
2008-06-27 11:26:38 AM  
trixter_nl: Khellendros: Just a note to those living outside of cities (you know, about 55% of the population): In mid and small town America, the bulk of the saggy pants crews are white. In number and percentage. Go visit any suburb or small town. The schools are 75% or more white, and a far greater percentage of white than nonwhite are wearing the stupid pants.

In cities, it's more racially slanted, but not in the bulk of the U.S.

90% of the population of the US lives in 10% of its geography, the remaining 90% of the geography is desert, forest, or farm land. So I do not believe that 55% live outside of cities, but then I count the suburbs as cities since um well they are.

Perhaps you meant inner cities. If that is the case then its likely that its more than 55% that live outside that.


I apologize, I was using the "voting district" division of city/suburb/township/small town, etc that most census analysts use for demographic purposes. By those splits, cities hold roughly 45% of population. But you are correct, the actual definition of city includes most municipalities listed as "towns" and "suburbs", as defined by ICMA and the bulk state municipal associations.
 
2008-06-27 11:27:42 AM  
CnFlght: If police crack down on sagging pants, they cut down on drug dealers.

Savage Belief: Since many of the individuals that wear their pants around their asses are associated with gang and drug activity I wholeheartedly agree with this policy.

Then why don't the police INSTEAD bust them for... you know... drug dealing and gang activity. I'm sure whatever sentence those charges bring would be a lot better for society than the ticket or whatever you get for having saggy pants.
 
2008-06-27 11:28:32 AM  
*decides Dicks is a bored dick who needs to move to NYC. Wanders off to icanhascheezburger for private Caterday hilarity.*
 
2008-06-27 11:30:09 AM  
trixter_nl: Doggiewoggie: If you want to arrest someone, but can't come up with any other grounds... there's always "saggy pants."

and that is easy to "plant" too, just pants the guy then arrest him.


lulz.
 
2008-06-27 11:30:52 AM  
Begoggle: I'm sure whatever sentence those charges bring would be a lot better for society than the ticket or whatever you get for having saggy pants.


No... just tell them to pull up thier pants they look like idiots. Fine them if they don't. Then tase them.
 
2008-06-27 11:32:05 AM  
Billygoat Gruff: I thought Michigan was a blue state, why the fascism

Fascism is a branch of socialism.

Seriously, guys, take some history classes or something. It's kind of vicariously embarassing to watch people make this mistake over and over.
 
2008-06-27 11:32:25 AM  
Um, let me get this straight. Wearing droopy pants is a way of advertising the fact that you are a drug dealer. Drug dealing is illegal. Wouldn't it be best for a drug dealer to try to not look like a drug dealer? This would be a good way to blend in and avoid further scrutiny from law enforcement.

/maybe I think too much
 
2008-06-27 11:33:49 AM  
2 words to sum this up:

PROBABLE CAUSE
 
2008-06-27 11:36:55 AM  
Seriously. Is there any way I can make a career out of traveling around and administering drop kicks to idiots like this?
 
BIE
2008-06-27 11:36:57 AM  
Progress: This is racial profiling, end of story.

So? ....

Link (new window)

No seriously. I'm kidding. But I got curious and checked out the stats. Damn that's some sad shiat right there. I mean I always knew there was a disparity, but I had no idea that in 1998 one out of every three black men b/w 20-29 were in prison or jail, on probation or parole on any given day.
 
2008-06-27 11:39:53 AM  
Ray44512: Um, let me get this straight. Wearing droopy pants is a way of advertising the fact that you are a drug dealer.

Except that it's not. It's a stereotype. Almost an urban legend. It's fashion BS, like all other forms of "indivduality" that get created. Are all punks advertising the overthrow of the government and anarchy? Are all goths advertising self-destruction and suicide? No. It's just a way to fit in with a group by dressing and acting alike. Thugs dress in droopy drawers and shiny sneakers because it helps them fit in with other thugs in droopy drawers.

The advertising and popular culture around any of these images glorify something illegal and counter-cultural, but there's no significant statistical difference in the number of people that acutally participate in the stereotype.
 
2008-06-27 11:42:07 AM  
CnFlght

Sagging pants are signs for the pushers/dealers in the drug-deal chain. Subby needs to get out of his mom's basement and realize that fashion reveals one's profession: underground (sagging jeans being druggie) or legitimate (suit and tie being office).

Clearly, you've never lived in California.

Baggy jeans = CEO, druggie, whomever (we blur the lines)
Suit and tie = in town on business from the east coast

/my work uniform is funny t-shirts, mandated by Boss so that everyone else can laugh
 
2008-06-27 11:43:58 AM  
I don't understand why (other than stupidity) the authorities anywhere would want to get rid of the saggy pants thing. Apparently, it makes the criminals easier to catch. Seriously, I think a few of those stories have been on Fark.
 
2008-06-27 11:52:19 AM  
theoriginalslash: I don't understand why (other than stupidity) the authorities anywhere would want to get rid of the saggy pants thing. Apparently, it makes the criminals easier to catch. Seriously, I think a few of those stories have been on Fark.

Got any links? Just wondering, I see this meme repeated so often I'm curious to see some actual articles where this really happened. Seems usually what they're wearing isn't often a factor, the terrain and the abilities of the officers giving chase are usually what counts.
 
2008-06-27 12:06:53 PM  
Why isn't this crap outlawed by default? If I wandered around with my tighty whities showing to everyone, I'd be arrested. I suppose, if I put on some boxers and became black, then some racist farkholes would defend me being obscene and disgusting.

Yes, that's right, racist. Defending black men's 'right' to expose themselves like drunk, pedophile savages is racist.
 
2008-06-27 12:06:57 PM  
Savage Belief: Since many of the individuals that wear their pants around their asses are associated with gang and drug activity I wholeheartedly agree with this policy.

Then why don't the police INSTEAD bust them for... you know... drug dealing and gang activity. I'm sure whatever sentence those charges bring would be a lot better for society than the ticket or whatever you get for having saggy pants.


Ray44512

Um, let me get this straight. Wearing droopy pants is a way of advertising the fact that you are a drug dealer. Drug dealing is illegal. Wouldn't it be best for a drug dealer to try to not look like a drug dealer? This would be a good way to blend in and avoid further scrutiny from law enforcement.

/maybe I think too much

Death_Poot

2 words to sum this up:

PROBABLE CAUSE


Savage: You need, as Death Poot said, probable cause to go after those suspected of gang activity. If a cop sees a man loitering on the corner of the street, he can't assume 'gang activity' and rightfully so. But, now, if a cop sees a man loitering on a streeet corner with sagging pants, he has probable cause to pat him down for drugs, paraphernalia and weapons. Read 'No Lights, No sirens: story of an undercover cop'. It describes how police are actually hamstrung by probable cause when they KNOW some jackoff did something but they don't have the ability to get them into a courtroom setting because of lack of probable cause.

This is why the cops always tell you to spit out drugs idiots eat on seizure. They tell you you're going to die to scare you into spitting them out because eating drugs = no drugs (duh) but also means no probable cause, no arrest, no record, no nothing.

Ray44512:
Drug dealers need to advertise to potential buyers. Its up to the buyer to ask for drugs so they make themselves visible. Its a calculated risk but, up until now, it wasn't a huge risk for them as they could always scream profiling if a cop detained them on suspicion of drug dealing. Saggy pants are now an official probable cause for drug dealing so now the risk for them just got higher.

Maybe I should explain why I'm for this policy.

I hate real, hard-core drugs. I grew up in Galveston, TX, and heard automatic gunfire nightly from gangs. And, no, I couldn't move somewhere else because my dad had a good job and part of the deal was living where we did. I was taught, as part of the curriculum, how to survive a drive-by shooting in fifth grade. I saw dead bodies in the gutters.

Gangs are cowards and lowest of the low, fighting for street territory to push drugs. Its a tax-free multi-million dollar game for those at the top of the hierarchy which is why people are willing to kill and die for it. 'Freakanomics' had a great essay on the economics of gang warfare. I say any more legal power given to cops to fight these selfish motherfarkers is good.
 
2008-06-27 12:10:35 PM  
Headso
This is just harassment of a particular group of people.

Sounds good to me.

It's on the level of 'If you don't want a visit by the cops, don't stand in the middle of the McDonalds parking lot screaming at the space aliens'. As I tried to indicate above, in sane parts of the world, people who can't keep their pants up in public tend to be taken away.
 
2008-06-27 12:13:04 PM  
CnFlght: Sagging pants are signs for the pushers/dealers in the drug-deal chain.

Wow. Apparently, 1/3 of my district's high school population is in the drug-deal chain. Who knew?
 
2008-06-27 12:15:17 PM  
Call me racist, but if I see a kid with baggy pants on a corner, I lock my doors. Anyone that stupid to think looking like that is "cool" is obviously dumb enough to rob someone.
 
2008-06-27 12:15:47 PM  
ArcadianRefugee
CnFlght: Sagging pants are signs for the pushers/dealers in the drug-deal chain.

Wow. Apparently, 1/3 of my district's high school population is in the drug-deal chain. Who knew?


That's not what he said shiathead.
 
2008-06-27 12:19:10 PM  
CnFlght Since you seem to have the problem all figured out then why arent you stopping all this crime? Maybe because it isnt as simple as the information you have. Maybe there are greater forces at work that push the poundage of drugs in this country. Perhaps you are a victim of urban ledgend, perhaps people really do sell drugs where highschool/college kids toss shoes over lines, I cant say. What I can say is that if drug dealers all wore uniforms and sold at obvious locations we wouldnt still have a problem.

That being said you need to GIS Cincinnati Bowtie(necktie) and Cincinnati Chili dog, preferably with the filter off and not at work (you missed my joke).

/end rant
 
2008-06-27 12:28:29 PM  
Isn't is out of fashion yet to declare "war" on everything?

I guess you don't sound enough like an asshole with a "new policy".

DEATH TO YOUNG PEOPLE AND COUNTERCULTURE!
 
2008-06-27 12:29:25 PM  
Begoggle
Then why don't the police INSTEAD bust them for... you know... drug dealing and gang activity. I'm sure whatever sentence those charges bring would be a lot better for society than the ticket or whatever you get for having saggy pants.

Because having saggy pants would give the cops probable cause to approach someone who may be dealing based on the fact that they are wearing saggy pants.

Scenario 1 Without Saggy Pants Law: Man on the corner wearing saggy pants, could be a dealer or not, but since we (the cops) didn't see any suspicious activity we do not have probable cause to interrogate.

Scenario 2 With Saggy Pants Law: Man on the corner wearing saggy pants, could be a dealer or not, but since he's wearing saggy pants, we have probable cause to approach and investigate further.

Simple enough?
 
2008-06-27 12:31:57 PM  
Jim_Callahan

Fascism is a branch of socialism.

Seriously, guys, take some history classes or something. It's kind of vicariously embarassing to watch people make this mistake over and over.


I think you're the one that needs a history course. Fascism is NOT a branch of socialism.

Fascism is an authoritarian dictatorship of the right.

It's easy to figure out when you look at virulent anti-communists like Hitler, Mussolini, Franco, etc.

And before someone accuses me of being a "libtard",
Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot would be examples of authoritarian dictatorships of the left. Notice that nationalism and especially racism play a bigger part in the fascist state, whereas the dictatorships on the left tend to be classist rather than racist. Other than that, authoritarian dictatorships tend to have very similar policies, whether on the right or the left.
 
2008-06-27 12:41:58 PM  
It's not the baggy pants! It's the people wearing the baggy pants! You lock up every person wearing pants at mid-thigh and I bet your crime rate in the city that night goes to zero.

Is that racist? I hope not - because baggy pants know no color. Plenty of white idiots do it too....
 
2008-06-27 12:55:59 PM  
Kicksmile:

Since you seem to have the problem all figured out then why arent you stopping all this crime? Maybe because it isnt as simple as the information you have. Maybe there are greater forces at work that push the poundage of drugs in this country. Perhaps you are a victim of urban ledgend, perhaps people really do sell drugs where highschool/college kids toss shoes over lines, I cant say. What I can say is that if drug dealers all wore uniforms and sold at obvious locations we wouldnt still have a problem.

That being said you need to GIS Cincinnati Bowtie(necktie) and Cincinnati Chili dog, preferably with the filter off and not at work (you missed my joke).

/end rant


I'm not claiming I have the solution to solving all crime. I'm pointing out trends which are associated with crime.

I know there are greater forces pushing the poundage of drugs in this country. It's not just the street-pushing pawns, its everything from the Columbian FARC, which funds itself through selling cocaine, to the crooked cop, who skims off drug money to look the other way. Its a huge mess.

Look, I know its not urban legend. I've seen take downs and drug stings first hand. One was walking across a parking lot of a Kroger, girlfriend's hand in mine, and a guy in baggy pants has three cops cars pull up, cops jump out with guns pointed, (we sprint out of the possible field of fire) and force him to the ground. Maybe it was just coincidence.

Pushers don't wear uniforms but they also aren't completely neutral blend-in-background. Ghettos have tags, signs, fashion and more. Its called street-sense and good cops can learn to read it just like anything else. Unfortunately, they are the modern-day cool, 'bad boys' of the slums so younger kids emulate their style. Fighting the man, packing heat, slinging etc...

Alot of times obvious locations are left alone by cops so they can gather evidence before making a move. Evidence, habeas corpus, is everything in the American court system. If you don't have enough you waste taxpayer's money working a sting and the follow-up prosecuting.

And yeah, I thought you were talking about food not scat fetishes. Silly me.
 
2008-06-27 01:00:10 PM  
I don't find baggy pants to be offensive. I'm with the crowd that points and laughs.

I guess I am a tinfoil hatter too, in that I don't think people should be profiled by their manner of dress. If cops can't come up with a case against drug dealers, they need to try harder, not just search their saggy shorts. Most of the kids I see around here are just wannabes anyway.

My 17 yo tried to buy pants like that last year, and I wouldn't allow it. I told him he looked like a dumbass. Straight up and honest with him. If more parents took this approach, there would be fewer kids wearing saggy pants.
 
2008-06-27 01:00:16 PM  
Savage Belief: That's not what he said shiathead.

Suck me, twatsticker.
 
2008-06-27 01:02:12 PM  
ArcadianRefugee: Savage Belief: That's not what he said shiathead.

Suck me, twatsticker.


Wow--feel the love.
 
2008-06-27 01:06:43 PM  
What do shoes hung over a power line mean?
 
2008-06-27 01:07:45 PM  
^^^^
Or you could, you know, LEGALIZE THE farkING DRUGS, so we don't have to kill people over them.

For the love of the FSM, it's really THAT simple.
 
2008-06-27 01:13:51 PM  
phillyguy1547: It's not the baggy pants! It's the people wearing the baggy pants! You lock up every person wearing pants at mid-thigh and I bet your crime rate in the city that night goes to zero.

Is that racist? I hope not - because baggy pants know no color. Plenty of white idiots do it too....


It's not racist, but it's not very well thought out. What about all of the people who don't wear baggy pants - they don't commit crimes? The "educated," college crowd who go drinking and clubbing, or the ones I see at Camden Yards/M&T Bank Stadium who may not be college students at all, just working types who can't go out and have a good time without starting a fight after (or during) the game? How about the older, blue collar types who relax after a hard days work by slapping around their wives and/or kids? Maybe the guys (like a few I knew when I was young) who looked nothing like the stereotypical drug dealer you'd think of, who move pounds and pounds of marijuana and work 9-5 jobs and still point and laugh at kids w/sagging pants? Take a look at the registered pedophile list w/pics one day - lot of those old guys aren't wearing sagging jeans, I'd wager.

Crime has nothing to do with how you dress. It's just a personal fashion statement. Crooks come in all sizes, shapes and colors, from all backgrounds. It's a simple as that.
 
2008-06-27 01:21:22 PM  
Lots43: people who can't keep their pants up in public tend to be taken away.

maybe you're ok with that kind of waste of my hard earned tax money but I am not. Are you a child that has yet to really pay taxes?
 
2008-06-27 01:28:38 PM  
phillyguy1547: It's not the baggy pants! It's the people wearing the baggy pants! You lock up every person wearing pants at mid-thigh and I bet your crime rate in the city that night goes to zero.

Is that racist? I hope not - because baggy pants know no color. Plenty of white idiots do it too....


Plus they're not particularly bright...I mean...how are you suppose to run from the POLice if your pants are threatening to fall down around you ankles!
 
2008-06-27 01:53:09 PM  
All I could read is 'Chief Dicks going after exposed rear ends'.
 
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