What's your point? You want me to word it more clearly?

BLACK PEOPLE AS A WHOLE LACK THE ABILITY TO HELP THEMSELVES.

JaMorg: wilbret: You mean property OWNING, middle class, WORKING Americans weren't expecting loaded bank cards and housing upgrades due to their choice of living in a flood zone?

Look up the median income of the sections of Terre Haute, IN that flooded along the river bank and check back with me. Friends of mine were in the town when that area was evacuated. It is one of the poorest areas in Indiana with generational poverty. After they were evacuated said residents volunteered to sandbag along with Special Olympians there for their state meet and visitors staying in hotels.

Mr. Gunn... what's this "we" you speak of?

I live in a place that is almost 90% black. And 'your' music sucks and your food smells like a chicken rendering plant.

Mentat: amanogowa: And my point was that you were quite wrong. No one could have reasonably predicted the crest would be that much higher than the record flood.

I never made that claim, you made it for me. I simply suggested that the fact that a massive happened in living memory of most of the residents of Iowa that they would at least be prepared for the contingency.

I'm really not sure why you're getting your dick twisted over this.

I am trying to impress upon you the scale. The flood in '93 was nothing compared to this one. You seem to think that a 100 year flood somehow means that we should have been prepared for a 2500 year flood, and that is downright, patently absurd.

amanogowa: Mr. Gunn: amanogowa: Mr. Gunn: amanogowa: No one ever thought that it would get this high.

Then again, NO was in a state that gets hurricanes just about every year -- what was their excuse?

Would you accept "No one ever thought that it would get this high?" as an excuse, or does that only work for good, honest, hardworking midwesterners?

Katrina was not a 1 in 2500 year hurricane.

Dude, the argument works both ways. Y'all flooded last in 1993. Not exactly that long ago.

Yeah, and the flood in '93? that was a record breaking flood. The flood in '08? yeah basically it was two floods of '93 at the same time. The record flood was bested by 6-15 foot of water. Levies were built (after the 100 year flood of '93) to stop a 500 year flood. We went well beyond that. To say that because of '93 we should have been prepared for '08 is to say that because of a thunderstorm NO should have been prepared for that hurricane. You have no concept of the scale of either '93 nor '08.

I don't think we're arguing different points, really. Clearly the ACoE screwed up their risk assessment in both cases, right? The only thing I'm trying to understand is why, when millions of dollars in aid are being disbursed, that no one is biatching about their tax money being wasted on saving people living in a flood area in this case?

It's a ridiculous argument, of course, but it reveals that it's not about "MAH TAX MONEH!" at all, doesn't it? It's just that there's less of the kind of people others love to hate in the midwest.

This is because the people in Iowa are SUPERIOR PEOPLE™

And I am in no way saying this because I feel I should be identified with SUPERIOR PEOPLE™

Am I saying it because it is true. There is no ego involved at all.

Although if you disagree with me, you are obviously inferior. And I will insult you until you agree.

wilbret: What's your point? You want me to word it more clearly?

BLACK PEOPLE AS A WHOLE LACK THE ABILITY TO HELP THEMSELVES.


I appreciate your honesty.

aerojockey
Has anyone suggested yet that maybe the fact that Iowa is populated by hardworking farmers whereas New Orleans is populated by a bunch of lazy southern bums has anything to do with the disparate performance of FEMA?

Dunno anything about the southern people, but Iowans do seem to have their shiat together. As soon as the water looked threatening, half the town here was out filling sandbags. A bunch of people came out and volunteered to get all the old people out of a threatened retirement home, take care of them while they were housed at local churches and other places, and move them back when it was safe.

I aim to please.

doyner: Who knew that a FEMA thread could be so rife with racism?

Is that what they meant by "The South's Gonna Do it Again?"

whidbey: james_bong: And if you screw over your citizens, they might just go revolutionary on your ass and throw you out of power.

We've had 8 years of screw-ups and Bush is still in power with no "revolution" I've seen yet. So I'm not sure what your point is...

Well, then maybe he hasn't pissed people off enough. If you think you have it bad here, try moving to pretty much any small African nation and see how the government works there. $100 says after a few months you would be clamoring to get back to the US to live under Bush. I know you can't fathom that because you can't possibly associate Bush with anything remotely appealing. But give it a try. I kinda like the standard of living I maintain here, and odds are you do too. And that's why there are not riots in the streets to overthrow the government.

james_bong: If you think you have it bad here, try moving to pretty much any small African nation and see how the government works there. $100 says after a few months you would be clamoring to get back to the US to live under Bush.

Ah yes, the old busted "America: Love it or Leave it" crap. Thanks for playing. You'll be receiving a free year's supply of Kraft Mac and Cheese.

Mr. Gunn: amanogowa: Mr. Gunn: amanogowa: Mr. Gunn: amanogowa: No one ever thought that it would get this high.

Then again, NO was in a state that gets hurricanes just about every year -- what was their excuse?

Would you accept "No one ever thought that it would get this high?" as an excuse, or does that only work for good, honest, hardworking midwesterners?

Katrina was not a 1 in 2500 year hurricane.

Dude, the argument works both ways. Y'all flooded last in 1993. Not exactly that long ago.

Yeah, and the flood in '93? that was a record breaking flood. The flood in '08? yeah basically it was two floods of '93 at the same time. The record flood was bested by 6-15 foot of water. Levies were built (after the 100 year flood of '93) to stop a 500 year flood. We went well beyond that. To say that because of '93 we should have been prepared for '08 is to say that because of a thunderstorm NO should have been prepared for that hurricane. You have no concept of the scale of either '93 nor '08.

I don't think we're arguing different points, really. Clearly the ACoE screwed up their risk assessment in both cases, right? The only thing I'm trying to understand is why, when millions of dollars in aid are being disbursed, that no one is biatching about their tax money being wasted on saving people living in a flood area in this case?

It's a ridiculous argument, of course, but it reveals that it's not about "MAH TAX MONEH!" at all, doesn't it? It's just that there's less of the kind of people others love to hate in the midwest.

How did the ACoE screw up in Iowa? It is not expected that they provide contingency plans for floods of this scale.

Besides that, the folks in Iowa at least are banding together and going out and cleaning houses of people they know, or don't know. I think that that plays a major part in people's reaction. In Iowa, people simply relocated to friends and families houses nearby and are working their butts of to recover from this flood -- and prior to the flood, we worked our butts off sandbagging. Looting is virtually unheard of. In NO people (necissarily) relocated hundreds of miles away, and waited years for the government to come in with some migrant workers and fix up the issue. People in the hurricane region acted outraged that they had a hurricane. People in the flood plains, or hell, even near them that got flooded? They accept the fact that they lived in a lower area and flooding occurs and they moved on. They are not blaming the government for their choice living in lowlands (or hell, a farking bowl below sealevel).

FormlessOne
Not impressed. Doesn't have anything to do with politics, or race - it's just that FEMA can't actually handle an emergency. If this had happened elsewhere, where FEMA didn't already have folks on the ground for months, what do you think the reaction would've been?

I think you do not understand how FEMA works. There is not a giant FEMA office somewhere in washington, dc where they sit around all day waiting for a disaster somewhere.

FEMA maintains regional offices throughout the US to facilitate the transfer of federal resources to local/state responders. Furthermore, FEMA cannot really assist (and are not suppose to) in initial local/state response efforts, FEMA, as a federal agency, cannot intervene until a Stafford act declaration is made.

The actual operational aspects of emergency response are managed and staffed by local and state officials. With the exception of a few highly specialized FEMA units (eg, Urban Search and Rescue), FEMA does not really have any operations staff. In most circumstances, FEMA officials fit into the ICS structure underneath local & state emergency managers, and are there to assist with the deployment/integration of federal resources.

So with few exceptions - FEMA is not responsible for managing, or "handling" disasters.



/sorry, this is my field.

HelpDeskChick: aerojockey
Has anyone suggested yet that maybe the fact that Iowa is populated by hardworking farmers whereas New Orleans is populated by a bunch of lazy southern bums has anything to do with the disparate performance of FEMA?

Dunno anything about the southern people, but Iowans do seem to have their shiat together. As soon as the water looked threatening, half the town here was out filling sandbags. A bunch of people came out and volunteered to get all the old people out of a threatened retirement home, take care of them while they were housed at local churches and other places, and move them back when it was safe.

Indeed. In Cedar Falls, over almost 1/4 the population was directly involved prior to the flood, either bagging, or helping those in the predicted path to move their possessions to safe locations.

JaMorg: wilbret: You mean property OWNING, middle class, WORKING Americans weren't expecting loaded bank cards and housing upgrades due to their choice of living in a flood zone?

Look up the median income of the sections of Terre Haute, IN that flooded along the river bank and check back with me. Friends of mine were in the town when that area was evacuated. It is one of the poorest areas in Indiana with generational poverty. After they were evacuated said residents volunteered to sandbag along with Special Olympians there for their state meet and visitors staying in hotels.

Same kind of story in Cedar Rapids - Many of the areas hit were lower income areas - not slums, but plenty of "working poor". I have a couple friends in the flood zone (was down there helping clean up this weekend) and they were holding on financially before this, but not by much. As to being in a flood zone, most of the home hit were in the .02% or lower odds of being flooded area. Not really "flood prone".

ndotseth: Shhhhhhh...don't let the Libtards hear that.
They hate hard-working Midwesterners enough as it is.

Oooo, it is hit and run troll, he has no clue what anybody said in the thread but he said something smart-ass in the boobies.

whidbey:

Ah yes, the old busted "America: Love it or Leave it" crap. Thanks for playing. You'll be receiving a free year's supply of Kraft Mac and Cheese.

I didn't tell you to leave. I said why not try someplace else and see how it compares? Then maybe you might have something to stand on when you say how bad Bush is and how bad life is here. I get it, you don't like him, and you aren't alone. But if he makes you so upset, why aren't you taking to the streets with torches and pitchforks (and firearms) then? Why is no one else? And thats my point. Most people have enough perspective to know that as bad as they think it might be, it could be a whole lot worse. And it will never be ideal, either.

Hal Jalykakik: ndotseth: Shhhhhhh...don't let the Libtards hear that.
They hate hard-working Midwesterners enough as it is.

Heh. Better check your 2004 election map. Four of those Midwestern states went for your "Libtards". Minnesota has gone Republican in a presidential election since 1972.

Apparently us Midwesterners are not only hard-working, we're also liberal, too.

// and did I mention we're also more virile than both coasts, combined?

Cock-jockey. Grow a life.

TommyDeuce: ame kind of story in Cedar Rapids - Many of the areas hit were lower income areas - not slums, but plenty of "working poor".

That is true everywhere. Flood plains and the adjoining area (and the flood safe areas whose roads go through a flood plain) are much lower land values. Those with the money up front tend to avoid the hassle of periodic flooding, and the added, long-run cost of flood insurance.

TommyDeuce: JaMorg: wilbret: You mean property OWNING, middle class, WORKING Americans weren't expecting loaded bank cards and housing upgrades due to their choice of living in a flood zone?

Look up the median income of the sections of Terre Haute, IN that flooded along the river bank and check back with me. Friends of mine were in the town when that area was evacuated. It is one of the poorest areas in Indiana with generational poverty. After they were evacuated said residents volunteered to sandbag along with Special Olympians there for their state meet and visitors staying in hotels.

Same kind of story in Cedar Rapids - Many of the areas hit were lower income areas - not slums, but plenty of "working poor". I have a couple friends in the flood zone (was down there helping clean up this weekend) and they were holding on financially before this, but not by much. As to being in a flood zone, most of the home hit were in the .02% or lower odds of being flooded area. Not really "flood prone".

Here in Wisconsin, the folk that lost their homes are the ones that could afford lake-front property.

amanogowa: TommyDeuce: ame kind of story in Cedar Rapids - Many of the areas hit were lower income areas - not slums, but plenty of "working poor".

That is true everywhere. Flood plains and the adjoining area (and the flood safe areas whose roads go through a flood plain) are much lower land values. Those with the money up front tend to avoid the hassle of periodic flooding, and the added, long-run cost of flood insurance.

Oh, I agree - was just rebutting some of the "FEMA works better for white-middle-class folks" stuff I was seeing here. Most were white, but the areas that were hit were about as melting pot as we get around here.

amanogowa: TommyDeuce: ame kind of story in Cedar Rapids - Many of the areas hit were lower income areas - not slums, but plenty of "working poor".

That is true everywhere. Flood plains and the adjoining area (and the flood safe areas whose roads go through a flood plain) are much lower land values. Those with the money up front tend to avoid the hassle of periodic flooding, and the added, long-run cost of flood insurance.

Bullshiat. Much of the flooded out folk were not in "flood-zones". At least here in WI. They were the folk that buzzed around in their motorboats. I vacationed at Lake Wisconsin and it was a whole lot of fun. It, however is NOT a flood plain and they are NOT poor. I am not shocked FEMA is doing a good job.

TommyDeuce: amanogowa: TommyDeuce: ame kind of story in Cedar Rapids - Many of the areas hit were lower income areas - not slums, but plenty of "working poor".

That is true everywhere. Flood plains and the adjoining area (and the flood safe areas whose roads go through a flood plain) are much lower land values. Those with the money up front tend to avoid the hassle of periodic flooding, and the added, long-run cost of flood insurance.

Oh, I agree - was just rebutting some of the "FEMA works better for white-middle-class folks" stuff I was seeing here. Most were white, but the areas that were hit were about as melting pot as we get around here.

Indeed.

TommyDeuce: amanogowa: TommyDeuce: ame kind of story in Cedar Rapids - Many of the areas hit were lower income areas - not slums, but plenty of "working poor".

That is true everywhere. Flood plains and the adjoining area (and the flood safe areas whose roads go through a flood plain) are much lower land values. Those with the money up front tend to avoid the hassle of periodic flooding, and the added, long-run cost of flood insurance.

Oh, I agree - was just rebutting some of the "FEMA works better for white-middle-class folks" stuff I was seeing here. Most were white, but the areas that were hit were about as melting pot as we get around here.

You can rebutt all you want. You are still wrong.

Sabyen91: amanogowa: TommyDeuce: ame kind of story in Cedar Rapids - Many of the areas hit were lower income areas - not slums, but plenty of "working poor".

That is true everywhere. Flood plains and the adjoining area (and the flood safe areas whose roads go through a flood plain) are much lower land values. Those with the money up front tend to avoid the hassle of periodic flooding, and the added, long-run cost of flood insurance.

Bullshiat. Much of the flooded out folk were not in "flood-zones". At least here in WI. They were the folk that buzzed around in their motorboats. I vacationed at Lake Wisconsin and it was a whole lot of fun. It, however is NOT a flood plain and they are NOT poor. I am not shocked FEMA is doing a good job.

Granted this flood is much different than the average, however the basic fact that flood-plains land is lower-income land holds true. When you start talking the 500 year flood plains and above (which I am guessing you are talking about now) that association stops holding quite as true.

doyner: whidbey: doyner: Who knew that a FEMA thread could be so rife with racism?

Is that what they meant by "The South's Gonna Do it Again?"

Dude. WTF are you talking about?

Yeah, the common theme is the south is pretty darned racist. And yes, the north is as well but the south is proud of showing it off.

amanogowa: Sabyen91: amanogowa: TommyDeuce: ame kind of story in Cedar Rapids - Many of the areas hit were lower income areas - not slums, but plenty of "working poor".

That is true everywhere. Flood plains and the adjoining area (and the flood safe areas whose roads go through a flood plain) are much lower land values. Those with the money up front tend to avoid the hassle of periodic flooding, and the added, long-run cost of flood insurance.

Bullshiat. Much of the flooded out folk were not in "flood-zones". At least here in WI. They were the folk that buzzed around in their motorboats. I vacationed at Lake Wisconsin and it was a whole lot of fun. It, however is NOT a flood plain and they are NOT poor. I am not shocked FEMA is doing a good job.

Granted this flood is much different than the average, however the basic fact that flood-plains land is lower-income land holds true. When you start talking the 500 year flood plains and above (which I am guessing you are talking about now) that association stops holding quite as true.

There are not many flood-plains in Wisconsin. The difference this year is that people in Wisconsin Dells are suffering. Of course FEMA is helping, finally Republican voters are being hit.

james_bong: I said why not try someplace else and see how it compares? Then maybe you might have something to stand on when you say how bad Bush is and how bad life is here. I get it, you don't like him, and you aren't alone. But if he makes you so upset, why aren't you taking to the streets with torches and pitchforks (and firearms) then?

I'm greatly disappointed that our representative democracy has failed to follow its own procedure. But all I can do is vote against assholes like Bush/McCain. I can't speak for anyone else, but I'd say this government's got a lot of its citizenry by the balls with work and house payments. They SHOULD be revolting against this administration's policies, as they have put this country in danger from both attack on our soil and our Constitution.

I don't need to live anywhere else to know what I don't like here and your suggestion is irrelevant.

BunkyBrewman: Just wait until the water recedes.

FEMA was giving out stuff in New Orleans. Unfortunately, they were unable to access much of the city.

/can't believe you people actually buy into the press releases disguised as news

Yeah, somehow I don't think this is a similar situation.

Just wait til Lake Geneva floods out and see how fast FEMA responds.

doyner, Texas is not proudly racist? Alabama? Mississippi? Ooooooo k.

amanogowa: Mr. Gunn: amanogowa: Mr. Gunn: amanogowa: Mr. Gunn: amanogowa: No one ever thought that it would get this high.

Then again, NO was in a state that gets hurricanes just about every year -- what was their excuse?

Would you accept "No one ever thought that it would get this high?" as an excuse, or does that only work for good, honest, hardworking midwesterners?

Katrina was not a 1 in 2500 year hurricane.

Dude, the argument works both ways. Y'all flooded last in 1993. Not exactly that long ago.

Yeah, and the flood in '93? that was a record breaking flood. The flood in '08? yeah basically it was two floods of '93 at the same time. The record flood was bested by 6-15 foot of water. Levies were built (after the 100 year flood of '93) to stop a 500 year flood. We went well beyond that. To say that because of '93 we should have been prepared for '08 is to say that because of a thunderstorm NO should have been prepared for that hurricane. You have no concept of the scale of either '93 nor '08.

I don't think we're arguing different points, really. Clearly the ACoE screwed up their risk assessment in both cases, right? The only thing I'm trying to understand is why, when millions of dollars in aid are being disbursed, that no one is biatching about their tax money being wasted on saving people living in a flood area in this case?

It's a ridiculous argument, of course, but it reveals that it's not about "MAH TAX MONEH!" at all, doesn't it? It's just that there's less of the kind of people others love to hate in the midwest.

How did the ACoE screw up in Iowa? It is not expected that they provide contingency plans for floods of this scale.

Besides that, the folks in Iowa at least are banding together and going out and cleaning houses of people they know, or don't know. I think that that plays a major part in people's reaction. In Iowa, people simply relocated to friends and families houses nearby and are working their butts of to recover from this flood -- and prior to the flood, we worked our butts off sandbagging. Looting is virtually unheard of. In NO people (necissarily) relocated hundreds of miles away, and waited years for the government to come in with some migrant workers and fix up the issue. People in the hurricane region acted outraged that they had a hurricane. People in the flood plains, or hell, even near them that got flooded? They accept the fact that they lived in a lower area and flooding occurs and they moved on. They are not blaming the government for their choice living in lowlands (or hell, a farking bowl below sealevel).

If Iowans, Illini, and Hoosiers were looting and shooting up the place I am pretty darn sure the rest of the country would collectively facepalm and say "Not Mah tax dollars!" and "We pay farm subsidies for THIS?!?"

The big difference between NOLA and Midwestern Floods? Population Density. That is really all it is. If everyone had evacuated in a timely manner it would have still been a catastrophe just not as large of one.

JaMorg: amanogowa: Mr. Gunn: amanogowa: Mr. Gunn: amanogowa: Mr. Gunn: amanogowa: No one ever thought that it would get this high.

Then again, NO was in a state that gets hurricanes just about every year -- what was their excuse?

Would you accept "No one ever thought that it would get this high?" as an excuse, or does that only work for good, honest, hardworking midwesterners?

Katrina was not a 1 in 2500 year hurricane.

Dude, the argument works both ways. Y'all flooded last in 1993. Not exactly that long ago.

Yeah, and the flood in '93? that was a record breaking flood. The flood in '08? yeah basically it was two floods of '93 at the same time. The record flood was bested by 6-15 foot of water. Levies were built (after the 100 year flood of '93) to stop a 500 year flood. We went well beyond that. To say that because of '93 we should have been prepared for '08 is to say that because of a thunderstorm NO should have been prepared for that hurricane. You have no concept of the scale of either '93 nor '08.

I don't think we're arguing different points, really. Clearly the ACoE screwed up their risk assessment in both cases, right? The only thing I'm trying to understand is why, when millions of dollars in aid are being disbursed, that no one is biatching about their tax money being wasted on saving people living in a flood area in this case?

It's a ridiculous argument, of course, but it reveals that it's not about "MAH TAX MONEH!" at all, doesn't it? It's just that there's less of the kind of people others love to hate in the midwest.

How did the ACoE screw up in Iowa? It is not expected that they provide contingency plans for floods of this scale.

Besides that, the folks in Iowa at least are banding together and going out and cleaning houses of people they know, or don't know. I think that that plays a major part in people's reaction. In Iowa, people simply relocated to friends and families houses nearby and are working their butts of to recover from this flood -- and prior to the flood, we worked our butts off sandbagging. Looting is virtually unheard of. In NO people (necissarily) relocated hundreds of miles away, and waited years for the government to come in with some migrant workers and fix up the issue. People in the hurricane region acted outraged that they had a hurricane. People in the flood plains, or hell, even near them that got flooded? They accept the fact that they lived in a lower area and flooding occurs and they moved on. They are not blaming the government for their choice living in lowlands (or hell, a farking bowl below sealevel).

If Iowans, Illini, and Hoosiers were looting and shooting up the place I am pretty darn sure the rest of the country would collectively facepalm and say "Not Mah tax dollars!" and "We pay farm subsidies for THIS?!?"

The big difference between NOLA and Midwestern Floods? Population Density. That is really all it is. If everyone had evacuated in a timely manner it would have still been a catastrophe just not as large of one.

Not really. The difference is that we are not under water. A few people lost homes and a lot of farmers are hurting. It is not even close to comparable to NOLA.

Sabyen91: JaMorg: amanogowa: Mr. Gunn: amanogowa: Mr. Gunn: amanogowa: Mr. Gunn: amanogowa: No one ever thought that it would get this high.

Then again, NO was in a state that gets hurricanes just about every year -- what was their excuse?

Would you accept "No one ever thought that it would get this high?" as an excuse, or does that only work for good, honest, hardworking midwesterners?

Katrina was not a 1 in 2500 year hurricane.

Dude, the argument works both ways. Y'all flooded last in 1993. Not exactly that long ago.

Yeah, and the flood in '93? that was a record breaking flood. The flood in '08? yeah basically it was two floods of '93 at the same time. The record flood was bested by 6-15 foot of water. Levies were built (after the 100 year flood of '93) to stop a 500 year flood. We went well beyond that. To say that because of '93 we should have been prepared for '08 is to say that because of a thunderstorm NO should have been prepared for that hurricane. You have no concept of the scale of either '93 nor '08.

I don't think we're arguing different points, really. Clearly the ACoE screwed up their risk assessment in both cases, right? The only thing I'm trying to understand is why, when millions of dollars in aid are being disbursed, that no one is biatching about their tax money being wasted on saving people living in a flood area in this case?

It's a ridiculous argument, of course, but it reveals that it's not about "MAH TAX MONEH!" at all, doesn't it? It's just that there's less of the kind of people others love to hate in the midwest.

How did the ACoE screw up in Iowa? It is not expected that they provide contingency plans for floods of this scale.

Besides that, the folks in Iowa at least are banding together and going out and cleaning houses of people they know, or don't know. I think that that plays a major part in people's reaction. In Iowa, people simply relocated to friends and families houses nearby and are working their butts of to recover from this flood -- and prior to the flood, we worked our butts off sandbagging. Looting is virtually unheard of. In NO people (necissarily) relocated hundreds of miles away, and waited years for the government to come in with some migrant workers and fix up the issue. People in the hurricane region acted outraged that they had a hurricane. People in the flood plains, or hell, even near them that got flooded? They accept the fact that they lived in a lower area and flooding occurs and they moved on. They are not blaming the government for their choice living in lowlands (or hell, a farking bowl below sealevel).

If Iowans, Illini, and Hoosiers were looting and shooting up the place I am pretty darn sure the rest of the country would collectively facepalm and say "Not Mah tax dollars!" and "We pay farm subsidies for THIS?!?"

The big difference between NOLA and Midwestern Floods? Population Density. That is really all it is. If everyone had evacuated in a timely manner it would have still been a catastrophe just not as large of one.

Not really. The difference is that we are not under water. A few people lost homes and a lot of farmers are hurting. It is not even close to comparable to NOLA.

You mean living below sealevel was a bad idea?

Go figure.

whidbey: I'd say this government's got a lot of its citizenry by the balls with work and house payments.

I'd say that a lot of the citizenry has itself by the balls by buying more house than they could afford. Don't blame things on the government that aren't the governments fault. Bush wasn't there holding a gun to millions of dumbasses heads while they signed for bigger houses and bigger payments. I'm not going to say that there aren't legitimate reasons for disliking Bush, but house payments sure isn't one of them. And on that note, I'm going to bed.

amanogowa: Sabyen91: JaMorg: amanogowa: Mr. Gunn: amanogowa: Mr. Gunn: amanogowa: Mr. Gunn: amanogowa: No one ever thought that it would get this high.

Then again, NO was in a state that gets hurricanes just about every year -- what was their excuse?

Would you accept "No one ever thought that it would get this high?" as an excuse, or does that only work for good, honest, hardworking midwesterners?

Katrina was not a 1 in 2500 year hurricane.

Dude, the argument works both ways. Y'all flooded last in 1993. Not exactly that long ago.

Yeah, and the flood in '93? that was a record breaking flood. The flood in '08? yeah basically it was two floods of '93 at the same time. The record flood was bested by 6-15 foot of water. Levies were built (after the 100 year flood of '93) to stop a 500 year flood. We went well beyond that. To say that because of '93 we should have been prepared for '08 is to say that because of a thunderstorm NO should have been prepared for that hurricane. You have no concept of the scale of either '93 nor '08.

I don't think we're arguing different points, really. Clearly the ACoE screwed up their risk assessment in both cases, right? The only thing I'm trying to understand is why, when millions of dollars in aid are being disbursed, that no one is biatching about their tax money being wasted on saving people living in a flood area in this case?

It's a ridiculous argument, of course, but it reveals that it's not about "MAH TAX MONEH!" at all, doesn't it? It's just that there's less of the kind of people others love to hate in the midwest.

How did the ACoE screw up in Iowa? It is not expected that they provide contingency plans for floods of this scale.

Besides that, the folks in Iowa at least are banding together and going out and cleaning houses of people they know, or don't know. I think that that plays a major part in people's reaction. In Iowa, people simply relocated to friends and families houses nearby and are working their butts of to recover from this flood -- and prior to the flood, we worked our butts off sandbagging. Looting is virtually unheard of. In NO people (necissarily) relocated hundreds of miles away, and waited years for the government to come in with some migrant workers and fix up the issue. People in the hurricane region acted outraged that they had a hurricane. People in the flood plains, or hell, even near them that got flooded? They accept the fact that they lived in a lower area and flooding occurs and they moved on. They are not blaming the government for their choice living in lowlands (or hell, a farking bowl below sealevel).

If Iowans, Illini, and Hoosiers were looting and shooting up the place I am pretty darn sure the rest of the country would collectively facepalm and say "Not Mah tax dollars!" and "We pay farm subsidies for THIS?!?"

The big difference between NOLA and Midwestern Floods? Population Density. That is really all it is. If everyone had evacuated in a timely manner it would have still been a catastrophe just not as large of one.

Not really. The difference is that we are not under water. A few people lost homes and a lot of farmers are hurting. It is not even close to comparable to NOLA.

You mean living below sealevel was a bad idea?

Go figure.

Eh, the Dutch are ok with it. They don't have to deal with the bullshiat corporatist garbage, though.

doyner: Sabyen91: doyner, Texas is not proudly racist? Alabama? Mississippi? Ooooooo k.

Proudly racist? Are you farking kidding me? It isn't 1960 any more.

I am pretty sure that the last time I was in Texas they were quite proud about their racist history. Every other truck had the Confederate Naval Jack pasted on the bumper, or the rear window. I have not heard 'white' people use the n-word quite so often as on that trip, either.

doyner: Sabyen91: doyner, Texas is not proudly racist? Alabama? Mississippi? Ooooooo k.

Proudly racist? Are you farking kidding me? It isn't 1960 any more.

Are you kidding? You guys are still pigs (not necessarily all southerners but yeah, most of them).

Sabyen91: amanogowa: Sabyen91: JaMorg: amanogowa: Mr. Gunn: amanogowa: Mr. Gunn: amanogowa: Mr. Gunn: amanogowa: No one ever thought that it would get this high.

Then again, NO was in a state that gets hurricanes just about every year -- what was their excuse?

Would you accept "No one ever thought that it would get this high?" as an excuse, or does that only work for good, honest, hardworking midwesterners?

Katrina was not a 1 in 2500 year hurricane.

Dude, the argument works both ways. Y'all flooded last in 1993. Not exactly that long ago.

Yeah, and the flood in '93? that was a record breaking flood. The flood in '08? yeah basically it was two floods of '93 at the same time. The record flood was bested by 6-15 foot of water. Levies were built (after the 100 year flood of '93) to stop a 500 year flood. We went well beyond that. To say that because of '93 we should have been prepared for '08 is to say that because of a thunderstorm NO should have been prepared for that hurricane. You have no concept of the scale of either '93 nor '08.

I don't think we're arguing different points, really. Clearly the ACoE screwed up their risk assessment in both cases, right? The only thing I'm trying to understand is why, when millions of dollars in aid are being disbursed, that no one is biatching about their tax money being wasted on saving people living in a flood area in this case?

It's a ridiculous argument, of course, but it reveals that it's not about "MAH TAX MONEH!" at all, doesn't it? It's just that there's less of the kind of people others love to hate in the midwest.

How did the ACoE screw up in Iowa? It is not expected that they provide contingency plans for floods of this scale.

Besides that, the folks in Iowa at least are banding together and going out and cleaning houses of people they know, or don't know. I think that that plays a major part in people's reaction. In Iowa, people simply relocated to friends and families houses nearby and are working their butts of to recover from this flood -- and prior to the flood, we worked our butts off sandbagging. Looting is virtually unheard of. In NO people (necissarily) relocated hundreds of miles away, and waited years for the government to come in with some migrant workers and fix up the issue. People in the hurricane region acted outraged that they had a hurricane. People in the flood plains, or hell, even near them that got flooded? They accept the fact that they lived in a lower area and flooding occurs and they moved on. They are not blaming the government for their choice living in lowlands (or hell, a farking bowl below sealevel).

If Iowans, Illini, and Hoosiers were looting and shooting up the place I am pretty darn sure the rest of the country would collectively facepalm and say "Not Mah tax dollars!" and "We pay farm subsidies for THIS?!?"

The big difference between NOLA and Midwestern Floods? Population Density. That is really all it is. If everyone had evacuated in a timely manner it would have still been a catastrophe just not as large of one.

Not really. The difference is that we are not under water. A few people lost homes and a lot of farmers are hurting. It is not even close to comparable to NOLA.

You mean living below sealevel was a bad idea?

Go figure.

Eh, the Dutch are ok with it. They don't have to deal with the bullshiat corporatist garbage, though.

When was the last Dutch Hurricane? I am willing to bet a large sum of money that the city of NO has hurricanes much more often.

Gyrfalcon: Sabyen91: doyner: whidbey: doyner: Who knew that a FEMA thread could be so rife with racism?

Is that what they meant by "The South's Gonna Do it Again?"

Dude. WTF are you talking about?

Yeah, the common theme is the south is pretty darned racist. And yes, the north is as well but the south is proud of showing it off.

And someone's pretty ignorant. The phrase is "The South Will RISE Again!" And proudly, if racistly. If you have to slander an entire region, at least get it right.

I know the term "The South Will Rise Again". I am not the one who said it incorrectly. But you are like any southerner. You will go with it if it helps you.