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(Washington Post)   Whenever there's a problem, Americans scream for government help. But government invariably doesn't fix it and in fact makes it worse. Why? Because we're humans, not robots (except for Al Gore)   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 98
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655 clicks; posted to Politics » on 18 Jun 2008 at 1:23 PM (5 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2008-06-18 10:46:45 AM
I wish I never complained about people speeding and running red lights. Sorry, everybody.
 
2008-06-18 10:50:05 AM
Previous research has shown that people drive faster in vehicles that feel safer, attempt to bike on more dangerous terrain when they wear helmets and pay less attention to infants being bathed when the children are in seats that are said to reduce the risk of drowning.

I'd have to side with libertarian paternalism as a possible partial solution.
 
2008-06-18 10:54:25 AM
this is why there is no electricity in the Tennessee Valley.
 
2008-06-18 10:54:34 AM
Very good points, though this isn't exactly new thinking.

This book is a good read. Don't agree with all of it, but it does bring up many valid criticisms of FDR and the path government has taken since then.
images.barnesandnoble.com
 
2008-06-18 10:55:26 AM
Suicidal Writer: I'd have to side with libertarian paternalism as a possible partial solution.

An interesting idea, but I don't think constituents would take too kindly to subtle manipulation. Such policies are probably only feasible on a micro scale.
 
2008-06-18 11:00:05 AM
Suicidal Writer: I'd have to side with libertarian paternalism as a possible partial solution.

Government control of any stripe is simply unAmerican. Take your commie ass to France.
 
2008-06-18 11:01:17 AM
Suicidal Writer: I'd have to side with libertarian paternalism as a possible partial solution.

We don't want you, you trolltastic douche.

Also, this statement, But government invariably doesn't fix it and in fact makes it worse. is provably false. Luckily, it's an out-of-context quote from an otherwise very good article. In the article, it's talking about market failures, and post-failure or in-crisis corrective moves by the government.



Government can perform well when adequately restrained, transparent, and held to accountable goals by an involved populace. And sometimes, just sometimes, you get actual inspired leaders.
 
2008-06-18 11:06:18 AM
Am I the only person who noticed that this article has nothing to do with politics?

He just mentions politics in his lead-in to an article about human psychology.
 
2008-06-18 11:08:03 AM
absoluteparanoia: Am I the only person who noticed that this article has nothing to do with politics?

What, are you kidding? It's obviously an article about Obama. Everything is about Obama and inspired leadership.
 
2008-06-18 11:09:31 AM
anal brazil men: An interesting idea, but I don't think constituents would take too kindly to subtle manipulation.

Do you look at any advertisements, watch TV, read the newspaper? We are subject to similar "subtle manipulation" every day.
 
2008-06-18 11:10:39 AM
So true. I mean, it's not like the Food Stamp Act, co-authored by that big-government, pinko commie Bob Dole and George McGovrn, eliminated hunger as a cause of death in the United States. Pffffft. Get government out of our lives! They screw EVERYTHING up!
 
2008-06-18 11:14:05 AM
Whenever there's a problem, Americans scream for government help

No. No, they don't.

However, whenever there's an opportunity, smart people bribe their congressman.
 
2008-06-18 11:15:19 AM
Crosshair: We are subject to similar "subtle manipulation" every day.

Yes, and it's tolerated because it's understood that advertisements are trying to get us to consume a specific product. I'd imagine many people feel that government should not have similar ambitions.
 
2008-06-18 11:16:10 AM
"It does not have to involve government interventions: Drugs are developed to reduce blood pressure, so people say, 'Okay, I can eat more, and it does not matter if I gain weight, because I can take this pill.'"


Who the hell says that? Doctors are pretty clear that blood pressure medication is nothing more than a supplement to you leading a healthier lifestyle. You'd have to be a monumental idiot not to realize that gaining weight with hbp is likely to kill you.
 
2008-06-18 11:17:19 AM
Howie Spankowitz: mean, it's not like the Food Stamp Act, co-authored by that big-government, pinko commie Bob Dole and George McGovrn, eliminated hunger as a cause of death in the United States

and created a whole new parallel payment system for crack! it's a free-market miracle
 
2008-06-18 11:19:16 AM
albo: and created a whole new parallel payment system for crack! it's a free-market miracle

That a negative exists for something does not mean the thing is a failure. You do realize that you haven't made anything approaching a valid criticism or important point, right?
 
2008-06-18 11:19:27 AM
Suicidal Writer: I'd have to side with libertarian paternalism as a possible partial solution.

I had a professor in law school who was a huge proponent of this. It's definitely something to look at.
 
2008-06-18 11:20:28 AM
Sybarite: You'd have to be a monumental idiot not to realize that gaining weight with hbp is likely to kill you.

And yet, some people still do it.
 
2008-06-18 11:21:44 AM
albo: Howie Spankowitz: mean, it's not like the Food Stamp Act, co-authored by that big-government, pinko commie Bob Dole and George McGovrn, eliminated hunger as a cause of death in the United States

and created a whole new parallel payment system for crack! it's a free-market miracle


Yes, the only people who use food stamps are crackheads abusing the system. We should eliminate the program. Well played. I concede.
 
2008-06-18 11:22:32 AM
Obdicut: You do realize that you haven't made anything approaching a valid criticism or important point, right?

hey, i submitted the link that brought you here, didn't i?
;)
 
2008-06-18 11:25:10 AM
Suicidal Writer: I'd have to side with libertarian paternalism as a possible partial solution.

That was a far more interesting article than the linked one.
 
2008-06-18 11:25:47 AM
albo: Obdicut: You do realize that you haven't made anything approaching a valid criticism or important point, right?

hey, i submitted the link that brought you here, didn't i?
;)


Great. Really good article. I'm not sure why you decided to celebrate by then dragging down the conversation, but whatever floats your boat.

KaponoFor3: I had a professor in law school who was a huge proponent of this. It's definitely something to look at.

It's a great solution because it involves respecting and educating the populace, and it's actually results-based; it's all about coming up with a plan with measurable effects, implementing it, and then actually seeing if it works.

Shocking, I know.
 
2008-06-18 11:25:49 AM
absoluteparanoia: That was a far more interesting article than the linked one.

The Schipol example is a great one too.
 
2008-06-18 11:26:58 AM
Obdicut: I'm not sure why you decided to celebrate by then dragging down the conversation, but whatever floats your boat.

oh, lighten up, this is fark, not policy review.
and my boat floats on pure evil
 
2008-06-18 11:32:58 AM
absoluteparanoia: That was a far more interesting article than the linked one.

I found it boring. Maybe there's more to the concept than product placement and the design of environments to affect people, but frankly those concepts are thousands of years old and used for both good and bad causes. You can't just slap new names on old concepts and adopt them as your own.
 
2008-06-18 11:36:54 AM
albo: oh, lighten up, this is fark, not policy review.
and my boat floats on pure evil


Whatever. Posting interesting articles and then trolling yourself isn't evil, it's just dumb.
 
2008-06-18 11:38:41 AM
"In my youth I traveled much, and I observed in different countries, that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer." Ben Franklin
 
2008-06-18 11:40:35 AM
albo: Obdicut: You do realize that you haven't made anything approaching a valid criticism or important point, right?

hey, i submitted the link that brought you here, didn't i?
;)


Headline submission is like the meta-version of the Greater Internet Farkwad Theory.

albo, who already enjoys the anonymity of the internet, nevertheless is a generally intelligent poster. I may not often agree with him, but he makes respectful arguments and doesn't pull things out of his ass.

However, with the added layer of anonymity that comes with headline submission, he submits a troll-tastic, reactionary headline that is not related to the central point of the linked article, and is way below his demonstrated intelligence.

*puts on Spock cardboard cut-out mask, grasps chin*

Fascinating.
 
2008-06-18 11:44:50 AM
Cagey B: Fascinating.

*sigh*
did you arch your eyebrows as well?

all of us big submitters get headline hate. it's part of the deal. check out 40below's list of greatest hits in his profile. i should start documenting mine
 
2008-06-18 11:45:11 AM
Obdicut: Also, this statement, But government invariably doesn't fix it and in fact makes it worse. is provably false. Luckily, it's an out-of-context quote from an otherwise very good article. In the article, it's talking about market failures, and post-failure or in-crisis corrective moves by the government.

Government can perform well when adequately restrained, transparent, and held to accountable goals by an involved populace. And sometimes, just sometimes, you get actual inspired leaders.


Well said.
 
2008-06-18 11:53:10 AM
Whenever there's a problem, Americans Libtards scream for government help.

Much more accurate.
 
2008-06-18 11:58:26 AM
albo: Cagey B: Fascinating.

*sigh*
did you arch your eyebrows as well?

all of us big submitters get headline hate. it's part of the deal. check out 40below's list of greatest hits in his profile. i should start documenting mine


I don't hate your headline. I just find it beneath you.
 
2008-06-18 12:07:45 PM
While it seems like common sense to pump money into an economy that is pulling the bedcovers over its head, the problem with most social interventions is that they target not robots and machines but human beings -- who regularly respond to interventions in contrarian, paradoxical and unpredictable ways.

No shiat.

The libertarians are right - no more government intervention. the market NEEDS a correction. And government has no business getting involved in health care or someone's retirement planning.
 
2008-06-18 12:09:01 PM
Obdicut: Government can perform well when adequately restrained, transparent, and held to accountable goals by an involved populace. And sometimes, just sometimes, you get actual inspired leaders.

I would rather not take the risk.
 
2008-06-18 12:15:46 PM
Weaver95: I would rather not take the risk.

Yeah... that makes no sense. You'd rather the government not get involved in what, exactly? Anything? Anarchy for all?

Under logical libertarian thinking, the province of the government should be everything that's necessary for a functioning society that the profit motive will not actually work on. This includes the judiciary, law enforcement, the military, environmental issues, and yes, health insurance (not healthcare.)

the market NEEDS a correction.

The market needs to be restructured. A "correction" won't do that.
 
2008-06-18 12:18:23 PM
Weaver95: And government has no business getting involved in health care or someone's retirement planning.

Our government has business doing whatever we vote for them to do.
 
2008-06-18 01:25:51 PM
I HAVE RIDDEN THE MOON WORM!
 
2008-06-18 01:26:42 PM
In real life, Al Gore hates robots
www.spurgeonworld.com
 
2008-06-18 01:33:22 PM
mediaho: Our government has business doing whatever we vote for them to do.


The next time they do that....will be the first time.
 
2008-06-18 01:35:17 PM
Moses To Sandy Koufax: The next time they do that....will be the first time.

Touche'
 
2008-06-18 01:38:24 PM
Suicidal Writer: I'd have to side with libertarian paternalism as a possible partial solution.

I haven't tried to figure out all the possible conflicts in such a system, but at first glance it does appear to be one way to allow the coexistence of people who want the government to be the "decider," and those who want to make certain decision themselves.

/kind of like dinner special where you can make substitutions.
 
2008-06-18 01:41:03 PM
In the author's Bizarro World, seatbelts and helmets make you less safe.

Or perhaps the cost of rehabilitation and medical expense for head injuries makes fiscal sense. I lost track of the bad analogies in this editorial.
 
2008-06-18 01:44:48 PM
Suicidal Writer: I'd have to side with libertarian paternalism as a possible partial solution.

Funny, that's actually what several of the Obama advisors lean toward. Economic psychology.
 
2008-06-18 01:45:02 PM
ndotseth: Whenever there's a problem, Americans Libtards scream for government help.

Much more accurate.


yea. like those commies over at Bear Stearns,
or like every libtard at the republican national convention who demands we burn 2 trillion dollars in the furnace of iraq so we can pretend that we can actually fix the problem that some people in the world don't like us all that much.
 
2008-06-18 01:46:05 PM
Ah yes, remember how even more people started dying of food poisoning once the FDA was established?

Stop using the inherent fallibility of man as an excuse for you refusing to get off your fat, lazy, selfish arse and lend a hand!
 
2008-06-18 01:50:22 PM
Weaver95: And government has no business getting involved in health care or someone's retirement planning.

So you are prepared to live in a country filled with sick people dying in the streets?
 
2008-06-18 01:54:14 PM
Hideously Gigantic Smurf: Ah yes, remember how even more people started dying of food poisoning once the FDA was established?


No...

but I remember how people used to sell cocaine and sugar as medications against everything from fatigue to cancer before the FDA was established.
 
2008-06-18 01:54:32 PM
Blah, blah, blah...

If you wingnuts think government is so bad, why the fark are so many of you in it?
 
2008-06-18 01:54:50 PM
The government does few things well and shouldn't get involved in things they weren't intended to, remember the limited powers, it wasn't set up that way for a good reason. However, for some stupid reason people want it involved and vote for those who promise to get the gov't involved. When will people learn that getting the gov't involved in many issues is a big waste of money, effort and most of all their vote.
 
2008-06-18 01:57:37 PM
Wendy's Chili: If you wingnuts think government is so bad, why the fark are so many of you in it?

The only reason I would get into government is to make it smaller, cheaper and to have much less responsibilities. I wonder if I'm a wingnut?
 
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