ExJerseyGirl: ManofPeas: Wait, sooooo the military captures terrorists and tries to interrogate them, aaaannnnnnd Democrats step in to stop it by interrogating the military in show trials?

Democrats support the troops!

(Just not our troops.)

Idiot or troll?

Hard to tell.

Both. He has a stock of protest pictures that he spams over and over. Brace yourself.

Magorn: These hearings are huge and i don't think many people realize it.

At yesterdays marathon hearing (6+ hours) ttestimony came out from several of the people in charge of "resistance training" (teaching our troops to resist and prepare for being tortured if they're captured) at the Air Force SERE school were specifically asked by Aides to Rumsfeld about the feasibility of "reverse Engineering" their torture resistance technniques to use on captured detainees. That completely anihilates any speck of the "we don't torture" figleaf the DOD has been relying on for the last couple years. The DOD went to the closest thngs the services have to Torture specialists and asked THEM to design interrogation techniques, so OF COURSE it was Torture they had in mind.



Moreover, it came out that the Chief Lawyers for every frakking branch of the Military (and damn near every service or DOD lawyer that reviewed the proposals) wrote essentially the same letter to the DOD general counsel in reponse tro a proposed list of interrogation techniques saying outright:

"most of these tactics violate the UCMJ, Federal Statutes, and the Geneva Convention. Soldiers who obey these orders could be prosecuted in US Courts or for war Crimes"


and Rumsfeld and His general counsel gave their OK to the list of torture techniques any way

Argue all your ridiculous "Post9/11, I whack off to 24, everything is OK when we do it" nonsense you like; it doesn't matter. This is game , set, and match as far as the Adminstration knowingly authorizing illegal torture tactics for Gitmo and Abu Gharib detainees.

THAT IS HUGE
expect it to be ignored

ManofPeas: Wait, sooooo the military captures terrorists and tries to interrogate them, aaaannnnnnd Democrats step in to stop it by interrogating the military in show trials?

Democrats support the troops!

(Just not our troops.)

And you know this picture is of Democrats, how?
Oh, you don't.
In fact, for all you know those people are Republicans acting as part of Operation Chaos.

But thanks for making sure nobody will ever consider you credible again.

Liberals do not care about torture. They do not care about Iraqis, Afghanis, or other Muslims. They are just upset that they do not have the white house right now, so they can't get the government to give them more entitlement spending. If we had a liberal President right now offering nationalized health care, they would look the other way if he authorized torture.

B-b-but leftists never torture! Tell that to a political prisoner in Cuba.

If you have a speech function on your computer, highlight the text below and have your machine read it aloud.


nlscb: Liberals do not care about torture. They do not care about Iraqis, Afghanis, or other Muslims. They are just upset that they do not have the white house right now, so they can't get the government to give them more entitlement spending. If we had a liberal President right now offering nationalized health care, they would look the other way if he authorized torture.

B-b-but leftists never torture! Tell that to a political prisoner in Cuba.

That's the sound a pervert makes just before he's ground into irrelevancy by the wheels of history.

Here is a more complete story:
Link
(new window)

The findings, detailed in a hearing Tuesday, brought rebukes of the Pentagon effort from Democrats and Republicans alike.

"The guidance (administration lawyers) provided will go down in history as some of the most irresponsible and shortsighted legal analysis ever provided to our nation's military and intelligence communities," said Sen. Lindsey Graham, South Carolina Republican, an Air Force Reserve colonel who teaches military law for the service.

Oh, look. It isn't just Democrats who are opposed to torture.

SherKhan
If you have a speech function on your computer, highlight the text below and have your machine read it aloud.


nlscb: Liberals do not care about torture. They do not care about Iraqis, Afghanis, or other Muslims. They are just upset that they do not have the white house right now, so they can't get the government to give them more entitlement spending. If we had a liberal President right now offering nationalized health care, they would look the other way if he authorized torture.

B-b-but leftists never torture! Tell that to a political prisoner in Cuba.

That's the sound a pervert makes just before he's ground into irrelevancy by the wheels of history.

I'm not the one who declares the welfare state being more important than human rights. So tell me, who exactly is the pervert?

nlscb: Bullschitt. I know plenty of liberals who do genuinely care about torture. Are you saying they're lying to me? I even know some Democrats who plan to vote for McCain because they don't think Obama has enough experience to lead the country.

Where are you getting your information?

Oh, I see ... this is just another one of those unsupported (and unsupportable) opinions that crazy people usually spout off.

nlscb: I'm not the one who declares the welfare state being more important than human rights.

Really? Then who said this?

nlscb: If we had a liberal President right now offering nationalized health care, they would look the other way if he authorized torture.

Oh. You did.

According to Scalia they can torture the lawyers. There's nothing wrong with it and it isn't illegal.

Waterboard them; each and every one of them...

So it is ok to bomb em, strafe em, shoot em, burn em, mutilate em, stab em, gore em or turn them into pink mist but it is not ok to torture them? You people make no sense at all.

Magorn: Argue all your ridiculous "Post9/11, I whack off to 24, everything is OK when we do it" nonsense you like; it doesn't matter. This is game , set, and match as far as the Adminstration knowingly authorizing illegal torture tactics for Gitmo and Abu Gharib detainees.

Oi! I whack off to 24 (well, figuratively) and don't find that incompatible with my membership of Amnesty and general disgust at torturers of all stripes.

/your point is well taken though
/also like BSG but cant' fly a spaceship for shiat.

ultraconservative liberal: Yes, we need to stop the HORRIBLE and UNFAIR techniques to get info from those peace loving Muslims that just want us to understand their plight. It's beyond me just how brutal we are.

It's just frat boy pranks, right? Like sodomizing someone with a broomstick, burning them by placing them face down on a car's hot engine block, raping their wives in front of them, and crucifying someone to death. You know, like any other Saturday night at Beta Kappa! Woooo!

Random Reality Check: ManofPeas: Wait, sooooo the military captures terrorists and tries to interrogate them, aaaannnnnnd Democrats step in to stop it by interrogating the military in show trials?

Democrats support the troops!

(Just not our troops.)

And you know this picture is of Democrats, how?
Oh, you don't.
In fact, for all you know those people are Republicans acting as part of Operation Chaos.

But thanks for making sure nobody will ever consider you credible again.

The protestor is from an anti-war protest on the Mall here in DC a few years back. The picture's not mine, but I actually DID meet this guy. I stopped to talk with him because I was impressed by the sheer size of his balls to walk around with that sign. Yes, he's a self-identified twenty-year Democrat, though he voted for Nader in 2000.

Also, kind of a jerk. But that goes without saying.

You were saying?

Really guys. You want Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld to go to jail?

Well, it's gonna take more than a slim majority in congress to do that.

Ever heard of political compromise? Just promise you won't raise taxes (see, you don't have to stop the "rich"), cut spending, insist that entitlement programs are solvent (raise the minimum age of social security, for example), and we can get these guys.

I want to end torture and am even willing to accept nationalized healthcare if that's the cost of doing business. Just as long as it comes with tort and tax reform (not tax cuts).

All I ask is what is more important to you, insane taxing and spending (the conservatives just spend - not much better) that the left has a long and proud history of, or ending toture. I don't get the feeling that it's torture.

This is why no one pays attention to your human rights complaints. They never feel genuine.

By the way, just because it pisses you kids off so much when folks see the base your party is trying to appease, here he is again:


Like I said. Democrats support the troops. Just not ours..

Told ya.

nlscb:

I want to end torture

Well that's a statement plain as day. I'd like to apologize for calling you a pervert. I'd like to so much I will. I apologize for calling you a pervert. I was wrong.

Quote: Speaking more broadly about methods that potentially could be justified under the United Nations Torture Convention, Mr. Fredman advised that "if the detainee dies, you're doing it wrong." UnQuote

Legal opinions written by LOLCats? OMG, srsly!?!1!?1!

HotWingConspiracy:

Both. He has a stock of protest pictures that he spams over and over. Brace yourself.

Oh, I see what you mean.

Someone new for my ignore list.

nlscb: I want to end torture... as long as it comes with tort and tax reform (not tax cuts).

"I'm willing to give up violating the Constitution, the US Code, the UCMJ, and the Geneva Convention, provided I can instead fark over the poor and middle class."

Your true colors... they are showing.

ManofPeas

That third pic, where was that taken? That "smash the Jewish state" guy looks like a plant. Not the leafy kind either.

I LOVE PICTURE PARTIES!!!
More lefties at play! They Support the Troops (TM)!

Americans. The only people that will scream from war and run around with little flags to show support and patriotism. Then the bodies start coming back and the tv starts showing the true horrors of the war they started. The mighty American military can only be beaten by the weak will of their own people that cannot handle the truth of what they are doing and too irresponsible to realize what war is. You want to support the troops? Educate yourselves so the next time you commit troops you don't lose your stomach for it and waste soldier's time or more importantly their lives.

SherKhan Quote 2008-06-18 10:50:53 AM
nlscb:

I want to end torture

Well that's a statement plain as day. I'd like to apologize for calling you a pervert. I'd like to so much I will. I apologize for calling you a pervert. I was wrong.

Assuming this is in good faith (nothing personal SherKhan - but this is Fark), I apologize too for being a little too blunt. My main agravation on the war on terror is that both sides demand "sacrifice", and then only expect the only side to do so. I wish I could remember what it was exactly, but the democrats swallowed hard early on for some sort of military operation, only to get screwed by the Republicans when one of their interests came up. I remember John McCain being absolutely furious, saying essentially "The dems gave us a BIG break, and now you jerk republicans turn around and screw them over?". People on all sides need to grow up and realize that we are in a hell of a fight that tests our morality as well as our military, and that like it or not we need to keep budget at the same time while leaving enough wealth for the economy to function.

Magorn: shocker66s: So it is ok to bomb em, strafe em, shoot em, burn em, mutilate em, stab em, gore em or turn them into pink mist but it is not ok to torture them? You people make no sense at all.

It's called the laws of war, child. War is one the most regulated of human activities precisely because it involves such destruction and barbarity. Without strict limits on the acceptable boundaries of how to fight and who to fight, Soldiers can easily slip into utter depravity by the pressures of thier situation. This is why a Strict code of conduct and a strong sense of honor are part of the military training of every nation on earth.

So what you are saying is that it is ok to grill em, fry em, rip em to shreds, blow brains out ect... as long as you stay within you "laws of war, child"? lol

[stands on soapbox]
Islam, like any religion, gets warped by people with other agendas. I have read the Koran. There is nothing in there condoning or encouraging the wholesale slaughter of noncombatants or civilians, and nothing that says it's a good idea to commit suicide and take as many bystanders with you as possible.
Osama bin Laden is not a Muslim, anymore than those inbred rape-camp loons in the American southwest are Mormons.
Torturing people is bad. We used to stand for that ideal. We've lost the moral high ground.
9/11 sucked. I was there (in DC, not NY). But that doesn't mean we roll back over 200 years of civil liberties, habeus corpus, and everything that The Founders stood for, just because we were traumatized by the first act of war on continental US soil in over a century.
Give the bastards trials that meet internationally accepted standards of openness and fairness, then shut down Gitmo, raze the camp, and salt the earth on which it stood.
[hops off soap box]

This thread would have been SO much better as a photoshop contest.

Tailslide: This thread would have been SO much better as a photoshop contest.

LOL!

/Thank you Tailslide for bringing us back to earth!

Mugs_PurpleScareblog: [stands on soapbox]
Islam, like any religion, gets warped by people with other agendas. I have read the Koran. There is nothing in there condoning or encouraging the wholesale slaughter of noncombatants or civilians, and nothing that says it's a good idea to commit suicide and take as many bystanders with you as possible.
Osama bin Laden is not a Muslim, anymore than those inbred rape-camp loons in the American southwest are Mormons.
Torturing people is bad. We used to stand for that ideal. We've lost the moral high ground.
9/11 sucked. I was there (in DC, not NY). But that doesn't mean we roll back over 200 years of civil liberties, habeus corpus, and everything that The Founders stood for, just because we were traumatized by the first act of war on continental US soil in over a century.
Give the bastards trials that meet internationally accepted standards of openness and fairness, then shut down Gitmo, raze the camp, and salt the earth on which it stood.
[hops off soap box]

Which 200 years of civil liberties included slavery and the lack of women voting?

ManofPeas: I LOVE PICTURE PARTIES!!!
More lefties at play! They Support the Troops (TM)!

Isn't freedom of speech great? Gives those guys, as misguided as they may be, the right to voice their opinion as much as you get the right to post that stuff. Doesn't bother me one bit that they're doing what they're doing so I'm confused as to why you're posting them.

But, really, what's your stance on it? You've shown pretty pictures but haven't said anything that would add to the conversation here.

Shocker66s: Americans. The only people that will scream from war and run around with little flags to show support and patriotism. Then the bodies start coming back and the tv starts showing the true horrors of the war they started. The mighty American military can only be beaten by the weak will of their own people that cannot handle the truth of what they are doing and too irresponsible to realize what war is. You want to support the troops? Educate yourselves so the next time you commit troops you don't lose your stomach for it and waste soldier's time or more importantly their lives.

THIS! THIS! A thousand times THIS!

We Americans do not have the guts for an extended war. The terrorists know this and bank on it. It really is amazing we could mobilize to fight two World Wars but today we can't even give up our precious Playstations to support our troops in a war for our very survival. We've learned only how to be selfish. Nothing else.

Republicans approve.

/of torture

tothekor: We Americans do not have the guts for an extended war. The terrorists know this and bank on it.

Uh... That's the entire point of terrorism as a tactic. If they didn't know this and weren't banking on it, they wouldn't be terrorists, they'd be guerrillas.

tothekor: Shocker66s: Americans. The only people that will scream from war and run around with little flags to show support and patriotism. Then the bodies start coming back and the tv starts showing the true horrors of the war they started. The mighty American military can only be beaten by the weak will of their own people that cannot handle the truth of what they are doing and too irresponsible to realize what war is. You want to support the troops? Educate yourselves so the next time you commit troops you don't lose your stomach for it and waste soldier's time or more importantly their lives.

THIS! THIS! A thousand times THIS!

We Americans do not have the guts for an extended war. The terrorists know this and bank on it. It really is amazing we could mobilize to fight two World Wars but today we can't even give up our precious Playstations to support our troops in a war for our very survival. We've learned only how to be selfish. Nothing else.

QFT.

I understand that torture is wrong if it stands alone, so is killing someone. Killing and torture is horrible as a lone entity but this is war people. Trying to take a moral high ground and saying that killing people with a 500 lb bomb that takes a little boy's arms and legs off but god forbid you torture someone for information is insane! Does killing people work in war? Sometime. Does torture work in war?? Sometimes it does believe it or not. You don't like killing or torture? I have a great idea! Don't start a farking war! Especially if you 1. don't realize what war is 2. Don't have the stomach for it once it gets ugly.

submitter: If only there were some method by which these lawyers could be forced to tell the truth

Subby fails. Torture doesn't produce the truth. It produces whatever the torturer wants to hear to make it stop.

shocker66s: I understand that torture is wrong if it stands alone, so is killing someone.

Now, we just need you to understand that using carriage returns is right.