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(Metro)   New pi-shaped crop circle in English countryside "baffles" mathematicians, so is obviously the work of extra-terrestrials. Or someone who really, really likes pi. Mmmm, pi   (metro.co.uk) divider line 521
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32890 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Jun 2008 at 10:02 AM (6 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2008-06-18 12:47:11 PM
Kamesan: The base 10 thing doesn't bother me. I mean, I wouldn't be too surprised if an alien had 10 fingers, but the decimal point is pretty weak.

So the Mayans had 20 fingers?
fsweb.bainbridge.edu
 
2008-06-18 12:47:20 PM
www.talkingnfl.com


MMmmmmmmm Pie!!
 
2008-06-18 12:48:19 PM
Noexit: I'm betting that the values of Pi, as represented here, would look the same whether you're in base 10, 12, or something else.

Nope. The digits themselves are represented as arcs spanning a fraction of the circle, but to get pi you have to use base10 in that each digit contributes ten times less than the previous.
 
2008-06-18 12:48:22 PM
If it is a hoax (I mean all of them, not just the ones we know to be hoaxes), whoever is doing it has discovered their seoul.

/smaller, and more efficient than your European crop circles
 
2008-06-18 12:48:46 PM
Vacation Bible School: jenniferwillow:

/Maybe the crew of the USS Enterprise NCC-1701-D went back in time to leave a message to us.
//Makes as much sense as that bit of claptrap in the article.


It probably happened when Voyager came back to 1990s San Francisco to battle Ed Bagley Jr. for his 29th century technology that had fallen to earth in the 1960s. With the help of Sarah Silverman, that is.


Ha! That episode is on right now.
 
2008-06-18 12:52:22 PM
<b>KyngNothing:</b> <i>If mathematicians are baffled, who figured out it was pi?</i>

The guys who coded the message and made the circle. They were upset when nobody "got it" and had to suggest that it represented pi to everybody.

Either that, or perhaps the street lamps are trying to tell us something.
 
2008-06-18 12:53:11 PM
JohDHJ: How did they get pi from that pattern? Any mathematicians / cryptographers willing to chime in here?

Percent of 360 degrees that curved lines represent.
 
2008-06-18 12:54:58 PM
Still waiting for the gootse crop circle.

img129.imageshack.us

Wondering if MPU has gotten bored again and is precision-microwaving the crops to create crop circles.
 
2008-06-18 12:56:07 PM
mycatisposter: (Percent of 360 degrees that curved lines represent) divided by 10.
 
2008-06-18 12:56:55 PM
Gridlock: Wondering if MPU has gotten bored again and is precision-microwaving the crops to create crop circles.

Depends on the crops... I suppose he could be trying to light up a fat spliff.
 
2008-06-18 12:57:33 PM
www.progboard.com
 
2008-06-18 12:58:24 PM
Theaetetus: Theaetetus: Seriously, if your argument for why I can't build a pistick is "your knife is too thick", then your argument is meaninglessly pedantic and not the argument that JohDHJ was making above.

... particularly because you propose a 1m circumference above. If you can make an accurate 1m string, I can make an absolutely identically-accurate pistick.


Construct a pi square using a compass and a straight edge, then construct a 1 square using the same. Let me know, when you do.

If the phrase "technically speaking" has no meaning to you, well then, there is no meaning in having a conversation with you. You will always be right, to yourself, which must be enlightening.
 
2008-06-18 01:01:13 PM
All im saying is after watching the 'Signs' movie..
The aliens better wear a rain coat...:)
 
2008-06-18 01:02:35 PM
This Is Necessary: Theaetetus: Theaetetus: Seriously, if your argument for why I can't build a pistick is "your knife is too thick", then your argument is meaninglessly pedantic and not the argument that JohDHJ was making above.

... particularly because you propose a 1m circumference above. If you can make an accurate 1m string, I can make an absolutely identically-accurate pistick.

Construct a pi square using a compass and a straight edge, then construct a 1 square using the same. Let me know, when you do.

If the phrase "technically speaking" has no meaning to you, well then, there is no meaning in having a conversation with you. You will always be right, to yourself, which must be enlightening.


Fail.
If you believe the accuracy of a compass, then voila, you have a circle.
 
2008-06-18 01:04:03 PM
What? No Hard n Phirm reference yet??

No Steve, not pie... PI! (new window)
 
2008-06-18 01:04:16 PM
lexnaturalis: SnarfVader: This may cause more controversy in the debate whether crop circles are a result of extraterrestrial activity.

What controversy? There is no credible evidence that these crop circles are anything more than elaborate hoaxes at best.

It's even worse than that, because the people responsible for the original crop circles came forward and actually demonstrated how they did it. There's no credible evidence that the people involved in this "debate" are intelligent.


You are an idiot. Doug and Dave (the so called original pranksters) would'nt know a pi from a pie. Besides their account, originally published by a sleazy tabloid, has been thoroughly discredited.
 
2008-06-18 01:05:19 PM
This Is Necessary: Construct a pi square using a compass and a straight edge, then construct a 1 square using the same. Let me know, when you do.

First, wtf is a pi square? Do you mean a square with side of length pi?

Anyways, yes. Draw a line with length n. Draw a circle with the line as its diameter. You have drawn a circle with an exact circumference of n*pi. Not an approximation of n*pi, but an exact n*pi.
This is not difficult by any sense of the word. I mean, heck, we've only known how to do it for more than two millennia.
 
2008-06-18 01:06:31 PM
Bevets:

Do yourself a favor and stick to ineffective creationist arguments. Incomprehensible crop circle arguments aren't really your thing.

CJ_Jack:

Effin' awesome.
 
2008-06-18 01:07:34 PM
End of discussion. (new window)
 
2008-06-18 01:09:45 PM
If I was an alien, i wouldn't make crop circles, but city circles. I mean c'mon, why mess with plants. Knock some building down to make a nice crop circle. That would really get people's attention.

No aliens out there. Sorry folks, nothing to see here.
 
2008-06-18 01:10:06 PM
Theaetetus: Anyways, yes. Draw a line with length n. Draw a circle with the line as its diameter. You have drawn a circle with an exact circumference of n*pi. Not an approximation of n*pi, but an exact n*pi.

It has been awhile since I had geometry, but isn't this only true if what you draw is a perfect circle?
 
2008-06-18 01:12:35 PM
Ryan2065: It has been awhile since I had geometry, but isn't this only true if what you draw is a perfect circle?

As said above, if you believe in the accuracy of your straight edge and compass, then it's an accurate circle.
This is also a different argument than they were making, which is that you can never, even with perfectly accurate instruments, create a line of pi length, because pi is irrational. This is utterly false.
 
2008-06-18 01:13:28 PM
FarkinNortherner: lexnaturalis: real shaman: ho never take credit for their elaborate jokes and never get caught.

ORLY?

I appreciate that believers in, and proselytisers of, imaginary constructs have to tell lies to prop up their beliefs, but expecting the rest of us to uncritically accept those lies is rather sad.


In case you didn't notice, you may want to check the idiot's username.
 
2008-06-18 01:13:50 PM
Farkeologist: End of discussion. (new window)

Holy crap I guessed right. That never happens. I still want the job as a circle maker.
 
2008-06-18 01:14:30 PM
SteelBeak: *facepalm*

of course it's man-made.

there were the original crop circle creators who came forward.
there have been several television specials which documented humans creating crop circles
there are actual clubs dedicated to creating crop circles as a hobby

There's nothing inhuman about these things. There are actually very simple and ingenious ways to make them perfect circles. here's a hint: a lenght of rope tied to a post at the center of the circle. AMAZING TECHNOLOGY!


They do NOT find centerpost markings in genuine crop circles. Also the crop stalks are NOT crushed, they are burnt and bent. Below is a closeup image of how a crop stalk looks in a real crop circle.

i29.tinypic.com

/read something outside CNN for a change occasionally.
/media conditioned buffoons
 
2008-06-18 01:15:22 PM
Ryan2065: Theaetetus: Anyways, yes. Draw a line with length n. Draw a circle with the line as its diameter. You have drawn a circle with an exact circumference of n*pi. Not an approximation of n*pi, but an exact n*pi.

It has been awhile since I had geometry, but isn't this only true if what you draw is a perfect circle?


That's why This is Necassary apparently dropped off. He/She made the identical error. Arguing against a perfect circle, but later relying on the precision of the compass in his/her reasoning.
 
2008-06-18 01:15:35 PM
www.alexgitlin.com

approves
 
2008-06-18 01:16:15 PM
Theaetetus: As said above, if you believe in the accuracy of your straight edge and compass, then it's an accurate circle.

I do believe the % chance they are perfect could be easily rounded to 0. Therefore you wouldn't get a perfect circle by any means.

Theaetetus: This is also a different argument than they were making, which is that you can never, even with perfectly accurate instruments, create a line of pi length, because pi is irrational. This is utterly false.

I agree with you here. I'm just not agreeing that we should even consider anything we make is correct to the infinite decimal place.
 
2008-06-18 01:16:41 PM
Is it a tumor?
 
2008-06-18 01:17:19 PM
tuna fingers: That's why This is Necassary apparently dropped off. He/She made the identical error. Arguing against a perfect circle, but later relying on the precision of the compass in his/her reasoning.

Either that, or he was correct and circles can't exist in the universe and his internal chemistry dissolved in a puff of logic.
 
2008-06-18 01:18:15 PM
apeiron242: miltonbabbitt: I wonder how many people it would take to create something like this with such precision overnight? Impressive regardless...

irregardless
/pet peeve


Actually, it seems debatable:

Irregardless is a word that many mistakenly believe to be correct usage in formal style, when in fact it is used chiefly in nonstandard speech or casual writing. Coined in the United States in the early 20th century, it has met with a blizzard of condemnation for being an improper yoking of irrespective and regardless and for the logical absurdity of combining the negative ir- prefix and -less suffix in a single term. Although one might reasonably argue that it is no different from words with redundant affixes like debone and unravel, it has been considered a blunder for decades and will probably continue to be so.

/Irregardless, I enjoy being corrected
 
2008-06-18 01:19:24 PM
Ryan2065: I agree with you here. I'm just not agreeing that we should even consider anything we make is correct to the infinite decimal place.

Hence my post earlier:
Within the limits of your measuring capabilities and disregarding problems with Planck length, yes, the circumference of a circle with diameter of 1m is pi meters.

Arguing those two points to try to refute the concept of being able to construct something of irrational length is logically and mathematically wrong.
 
2008-06-18 01:20:45 PM
I still don't get why anyone would think that ANY crop circle is more likely to be alien-made than man-made.

It's just silly.
 
2008-06-18 01:22:00 PM
Count from the center out noting each niche

Ten of them ... so any alien species would be able to figure out what number base we use!!

Obviously they'd already know this because they've been watching us for quite a while now.

What's pi in base 8

3.1103755242... why?
 
2008-06-18 01:22:36 PM
FeBolas: I still don't get why anyone would think that ANY crop circle is more likely to be alien-made than man-made.

What, so you believe some conspiracy of individuals, possibly supported by the Illuminati, the Bush Adminstration, and the NSA, is behind these circles? I bet you don't believe in the moon landings either, whackjob. Go put on your tin foil hat.

/hehe
 
2008-06-18 01:22:51 PM
SiYkO: wow, the extraterrestrials count in base 10 as well! What a coincidence!

No coincidence at all. Jesus had ten fingers.
 
2008-06-18 01:24:12 PM
Joce678: 3.1103755242... why?

You earlier:
Fail!

The image is based on proportion, not numbers;


The proportions the image is based on only spell out pi if you're in base 10.
 
2008-06-18 01:24:45 PM
Theaetetus: What, so you believe some conspiracy of individuals, possibly supported by the Illuminati, the Bush Adminstration, and the NSA, is behind these circles? I bet you don't believe in the moon landings either, whackjob. Go put on your tin foil hat.

/hehe


HOW DID YOU KNOW I WAS WEARING MY FOIL??

/last time I used generic-brand foil for my brain-wave protecting purposes
 
2008-06-18 01:25:08 PM
Theaetetus: Ryan2065: I agree with you here. I'm just not agreeing that we should even consider anything we make is correct to the infinite decimal place.

Hence my post earlier:
Within the limits of your measuring capabilities and disregarding problems with Planck length, yes, the circumference of a circle with diameter of 1m is pi meters.

Arguing those two points to try to refute the concept of being able to construct something of irrational length is logically and mathematically wrong.


Thanks for fighting the good fight.
 
2008-06-18 01:26:11 PM
Hey, thanks for TFing me, anonymous sponsor!

/I hope it was for this thread, and not the one where I professed my undying love-that-shall-not-be-named for Cheez Whiz in a photo montage.
 
2008-06-18 01:28:27 PM
Clandestine digital operative: Is it a tumor?

Well, it's definitely not lupus.
 
2008-06-18 01:29:17 PM
Meh. They should have done it in radians instead of degrees, then it would have been a really cool code to break.

/me sees through your thinly veiled "code"
//not dismissing the chance there's another code embedded
 
2008-06-18 01:31:35 PM
Theaetetus: Hence my post earlier:
Within the limits of your measuring capabilities and disregarding problems with Planck length, yes, the circumference of a circle with diameter of 1m is pi meters.

Arguing those two points to try to refute the concept of being able to construct something of irrational length is logically and mathematically wrong.


Here is the post that came from:

Theaetetus: JohDHJ: No, sorry. The circumference may be a VERY close approximation to pi, but it can not be pi. Which was my point all along.

Within the limits of your measuring capabilities and disregarding problems with Planck length, yes, the circumference of a circle with diameter of 1m is pi meters.
Your point is wrong. You weren't raised in Indiana, home of the pi=3 legislation, by any chance?


So here is how you apparently argue:

Joh: It is close to pi but really isn't exactly pi
Thea: Sure it is, because I'm rounding!

You are both right because you are both arguing different things. Joh didn't want to round but you did.
 
2008-06-18 01:34:08 PM
Ryan2065: Theaetetus: Hence my post earlier:
Within the limits of your measuring capabilities and disregarding problems with Planck length, yes, the circumference of a circle with diameter of 1m is pi meters.

Arguing those two points to try to refute the concept of being able to construct something of irrational length is logically and mathematically wrong.

Here is the post that came from:

Theaetetus: JohDHJ: No, sorry. The circumference may be a VERY close approximation to pi, but it can not be pi. Which was my point all along.

Within the limits of your measuring capabilities and disregarding problems with Planck length, yes, the circumference of a circle with diameter of 1m is pi meters.
Your point is wrong. You weren't raised in Indiana, home of the pi=3 legislation, by any chance?

So here is how you apparently argue:

Joh: It is close to pi but really isn't exactly pi
Thea: Sure it is, because I'm rounding!

You are both right because you are both arguing different things. Joh didn't want to round but you did.


I think Thaeatetus will disagree with you. He was not rounding.
 
2008-06-18 01:34:49 PM
Englebert Slaptyback: Huck Chaser

From my perspective, you're putting the horse before the cart.


o_O


Woops! Good catch.
 
2008-06-18 01:36:26 PM
continued from above.

Knowing exactly where to cut the string is not congruous to "rounding".
 
2008-06-18 01:39:19 PM
Came here for the "Want to believe" pics.

/disappointed
 
2008-06-18 01:40:50 PM
Ryan2065: You are both right because you are both arguing different things. Joh didn't want to round but you did.

That's only 'cause I was drawing a specifically pi meter stick.
If I make the diameter "1 unit", then the circumference is exactly pi units, with no rounding necessary.
 
2008-06-18 01:41:51 PM
tuna fingers: I think Thaeatetus will disagree with you.

This, in general, is a truism.
 
2008-06-18 01:45:00 PM
tuna fingers: I think Thaeatetus will disagree with you. He was not rounding.

From the way I read it he was. What does "Within the limits of your measuring capabilities and disregarding problems with Planck length" mean? I didn't read that as "exact measurement to the infinite decimal."

tuna fingers: continued from above.

Knowing exactly where to cut the string is not congruous to "rounding".


Right, knowing where to cut = the theory side, and doing the actual cutting = the applied side. So in theoretical math we can have perfect circles and pisticks and in applied math we can only get close to perfect circles and close to perfect pisticks.

This is what I've been saying.
 
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