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(NYPost)   What do Chris Dodd, Kent Conrad, Alphonso Jackson, Donna Shalala and Richard Holbrooke all have in common? Below market loans from Countrywide Financial. Some pigs are more equal than others   (nypost.com) divider line 85
    More: Asinine  
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1666 clicks; posted to Business » on 16 Jun 2008 at 10:56 AM (6 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2008-06-16 09:06:07 AM
"Animals," subby. "Some animals are more equal than others." Throwing in the word "pigs" pretty much negates the ironic context of the quote, since it's the pigs who were implying through the word change that they and their minions were the more equal animals.
 
2008-06-16 09:13:42 AM
I think anyone getting a dicey loan from Countrywide shouldn't besmirch the good name of animals everywhere. "Pig" is OK with me.
 
2008-06-16 09:25:08 AM
Couldn't a case be made that anything below market value was a gift, and thus taxable income?
 
2008-06-16 09:25:30 AM
Pigs get fat. Hogs get slaughtered. Hopefully, anyway.

In a metaphorical sense, that is. Not literally, like Mussolini.
 
2008-06-16 09:26:15 AM
*gasp* Corporations giving perks to those in positions of political power? Say it ain't so!

/oh, and just ignore the money that Enron and Halliburton have been handing out to Bush & Co.
 
2008-06-16 09:28:13 AM
The article is a great big bucket of fail. While it shows a list of influential people who got favorable loans from Countrywide because they knew Angelo Mozilo, it does not show quid pro quo actions on the part of the loan recipients for Angelo Mozilo or Countrywide. Hell it does not even show that the recipients of the loans even had knowledge of the benefits that they were getting, only that they were getting a better deal from Countrywide than other mortgage companies.
 
2008-06-16 09:31:24 AM

FTA:

Were Mozilo and his company looking to buy influence from officials well positioned to favorably affect Countrywide's operations?

It sure looks that way.


Or, it looks like Washington fat cats got the special treatment that all elites get in this country.

Alleging wrongdoing is one thing, proving it is another. But if I were an investigative reporter (if such a thing exists anymore) I sure as hell would be digging into this story looking for a little "pro quo" to go along with the "quid".
 
2008-06-16 09:40:38 AM
Skleenar: Or, it looks like Washington fat cats got the special treatment that all elites get in this country.

Alleging wrongdoing is one thing, proving it is another. But if I were an investigative reporter (if such a thing exists anymore) I sure as hell would be digging into this story looking for a little "pro quo" to go along with the "quid".


Oh, it's okay, because they are better than us. It's a good thing I don't live somewhere where political corruption is rampant, otherwise I might get the wrong idea from a bunch of politicians with no real need to go to a sub-prime lender getting sweetheart, below-market loans from one of the biggest players in the subprime market, otherwise I might get the wrong idea.
 
2008-06-16 09:45:04 AM
Nabb1: Oh, it's okay, because they are better than us.

What's your point?

I never claimed it was OK.

But there's an entire industry in this country dedicated to influence peddling, and quite a lot of what they do is legal.

Just because you can't prosecute someone doesn't mean they haven't behaved unethically.
 
2008-06-16 09:49:13 AM
Nabb1: Skleenar: Or, it looks like Washington fat cats got the special treatment that all elites get in this country.

Alleging wrongdoing is one thing, proving it is another. But if I were an investigative reporter (if such a thing exists anymore) I sure as hell would be digging into this story looking for a little "pro quo" to go along with the "quid".

Oh, it's okay, because they are better than us. It's a good thing I don't live somewhere where political corruption is rampant, otherwise I might get the wrong idea from a bunch of politicians with no real need to go to a sub-prime lender getting sweetheart, below-market loans from one of the biggest players in the subprime market, otherwise I might get the wrong idea.


Skleenar is exactly right though. first, the journalist is shirking his duty to the people by being satisfied to stop at alleging wrongdoing. allegations are nothing, they are vapor. find the reciprocation, and you've got something. as a citizen, i want to know if there were any illicit dealings.

but, if not, there is nothing illegal about getting a good rate on a mortgage. it's not corruption unless there is something corrupt going on, and getting a good rate isn't corrupt.

my father is the manager at a car dealership. everyone in our family has gotten a good deal on any car they've ever bought, deals that you could never get, and definitely below market. but there was nothing illegal about it, he wasn't selling it below cost, he was just giving us a good deal because we are family. if i were a politician, they could write this same story about me, even though i had never done anything corrupt.
 
2008-06-16 10:03:22 AM
I am glad that I am not expected to totally whore myself out at my job.
 
2008-06-16 10:13:24 AM
Code_Archeologist: The article is a great big bucket of fail. While it shows a list of influential people who got favorable loans from Countrywide because they knew Angelo Mozilo, it does not show quid pro quo actions on the part of the loan recipients for Angelo Mozilo or Countrywide. Hell it does not even show that the recipients of the loans even had knowledge of the benefits that they were getting, only that they were getting a better deal from Countrywide than other mortgage companies.

Four legs bad; two legs good?
 
2008-06-16 10:41:00 AM
Skleenar: Just because you can't prosecute someone doesn't mean they haven't behaved unethically.

I'm not saying what they did is illegal, but that doesn't make it right. Those two concepts are not necessarily mutually exclusive.
 
2008-06-16 10:41:40 AM
Oh, and I agreed with what I quoted. Reading it, it looks like I was arguing with you, but I agree with that statement.
 
2008-06-16 11:00:34 AM
Bad time for Dodd to get caught up in a scandal. I guess he can kiss any hope for the VP spot goodbye
 
2008-06-16 11:00:39 AM
They're all corrupt Democrats.

Shocking. Shocking, I say!!
 
2008-06-16 11:02:42 AM
Maybe they all just had really good credit.
 
2008-06-16 11:09:52 AM
vernonFL: Maybe they all just had really good credit.

In school we called that Extra Credit
 
2008-06-16 11:10:02 AM
I have to get into politics. I know with a little work I can be as oorrupt and incompetent as most of em. Next step.... profit.
 
2008-06-16 11:11:07 AM
I love the Animal Farm reference.
 
2008-06-16 11:11:54 AM
Just look at their role models.

I know! up until now I held politicians up as role models for upstanding behavior! My whole world view is shattered!
 
2008-06-16 11:18:07 AM
Hint: Rich people pay less for things than you do. In fact, if they're rich AND famous, they'll get lots of things for free just so the company can say "Will Smith wears our watch!"
 
2008-06-16 11:21:27 AM
All of these people are in the top one percent of wealth in this country. Add to that the fact that they are high profile, and you can be damn sure that they will pay their mortgages. These were loans that were being paid back with interest, not political handouts.
 
2008-06-16 11:23:02 AM
www.majhost.com

Approves.
 
2008-06-16 11:25:36 AM
media.collegepublisher.com

"Who are five people who have never been in my kitchen?"
 
2008-06-16 11:26:44 AM
Bullshiatter: Approves.

WIN.
 
2008-06-16 11:27:45 AM
Nabb1: I'm not saying what they did is illegal, but that doesn't make it right. Those two concepts are not necessarily mutually exclusive.

FWIW, I agree with you on this principle, but what I find interesting is that one could also apply this rationale to criticize most of what the Bush administration does (not necessarily directing this at you).
 
2008-06-16 11:34:44 AM
Wasn't Dodd on the shortlist for VP? If he was, he probably isn't anymore.
 
2008-06-16 11:34:44 AM
If they were unaware of the bribe, force them to sign a regular mortgage and to repay the full amount of the discounts

If they were aware of the bribe, then give them some silver bracelets
 
2008-06-16 11:37:49 AM
This is all B. Hussein's fault.
 
2008-06-16 11:38:59 AM
Bullshiatter: Approves.

Excellent, but Alphonso Jackson?
 
2008-06-16 11:39:07 AM
Dodd is the asshat that wants to give billions of taxpayer money to the banks to help bail them out of this mess they created by dropping all lending standards.

Fark 'em - let 'em burn I say.
 
2008-06-16 11:42:29 AM
Crude 2008-06-16 11:00:39 AM
They're all corrupt Democrats.

Shocking. Shocking, I say!!


Umm ...non story, nothing to see here, move on please .... But-But-MCCAIN!! HE'S OLD!!
 
2008-06-16 11:48:17 AM
Seriously, if these were Republicans this thread would be 300 posts calling for their arrests already.
 
2008-06-16 11:52:13 AM
Marcus Aurelius: I think anyone getting a dicey loan from Countrywide shouldn't besmirch the good name of animals everywhere. "Pig" is OK with me.

Think "Animal Farm" George Orwel. Some animals are more equal than others
 
2008-06-16 11:53:15 AM
Fish in a Barrel: Seriously, if these were Republicans this thread would be 300 posts calling for their arrests already.

Fark is full of republican haters. More news at 11.
 
2008-06-16 11:54:42 AM
redmond24: Fish in a Barrel: Seriously, if these were Republicans this thread would be 300 posts calling for their arrests already.

Fark is full of republican haters. More news at 11.


Quick..to the Romerocopter.
 
2008-06-16 11:55:55 AM
Excellent reference subby. Read that book everyone. And if you've read it, read it again!
 
2008-06-16 11:58:25 AM
redmond24: The educated are republican haters. More news at 11.

FTFY

/If you don't hate republicans after their clusterfarking for the past eight years you're an idiot and deserve to be shipped off to Iran
//Democrats are bad, too, but they haven't driven this country into the ground in a few years
///Stupid federalists
 
2008-06-16 11:59:03 AM
Fish in a Barrel: Seriously, if these were Republicans this thread would be 300 posts calling for their arrests already.

Did you read the article?

The company gave generously to politicians on both sides of the aisle. Portfolio reports that it "loaned hundreds of millions of dollars per year through its VIP program to politicians, government officials, business executives, entertainment celebrities and other customers singled out for special treatment."


There were some Republicans involved. Just not named in this article.

/Except for Bush HUD head Alphonso Jackson, but he is probably going to get calls for jailing for his many other scandals.
 
2008-06-16 12:02:36 PM
rahpower: Bullshiatter: Approves.

Excellent, but Alphonso Jackson?


The guy who was the secretary for HUD before he resigned after getting wrapped up in this mess a few weeks ago. His qualifications are what get me. Bachelors in Political Science, Masters in Education Administration. Helluva pick there George.

I'm really disapointed to find out Dodd was involved in this. He's the chairman for the Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs. He can say he wasn't looking for preferential treatment but he's smart enough to know what's up. He shouldn't have taken the loan.

/08ama.
 
2008-06-16 12:04:39 PM
Numbers, I need numbers. How good of a deal did they get? Did they get unheard of low rates, or just rates normally associated to those with the highest scores? It matters.
 
2008-06-16 12:08:13 PM
Bartman66: Crude 2008-06-16 11:00:39 AM
They're all corrupt Democrats.

Shocking. Shocking, I say!!


Umm ...non story, nothing to see here, move on please .... But-But-MCCAIN!! HE'S OLD!!


Yeah, nothing to see here at all...
 
2008-06-16 12:09:06 PM
guesser: Numbers, I need numbers. How good of a deal did they get? Did they get unheard of low rates, or just rates normally associated to those with the highest scores? It matters.

The article didn't say. It just says that in the preferential treatment they receieved "lower interest rates that saved them tens of thousands of dollars".
 
2008-06-16 12:14:39 PM
Rethorn: redmond24: The educated are republican haters. More news at 11.

FTFY

/If you don't hate republicans after their clusterfarking for the past eight years you're an idiot and deserve to be shipped off to Iran
//Democrats are bad, too, but they haven't driven this country into the ground in a few years
///Stupid federalists


Most republicans are born into their party affiliation. They're usually privileged and made to believe that limited government is the best, therefore democrats are evil, lazy, etc.

I can't speak for the poor republicans who vote against their economic interest. They're just stupid.

/Democrat
 
2008-06-16 12:15:42 PM
I too benefit from something just like this. One of my good friends is an insurance agent, and he always gives me rates for auto and home insurance that are consistently lower than anything I've ever been able to find on the open market. There is absolutely nothing inappropriate (much less illegal) about it.

Granted, the fact that, in this case, the people benefiting from the lower rates are public officials, should perhaps raise some eyebrows. But unless someone can demonstrate that Countrywide got something in return from these officials they it should not have received, this is a nonstory.

Honestly, if this is the biggest "scandal" the GOP can dig up, it's time to get some better shovels.
 
2008-06-16 12:18:51 PM
Maybe they just have better credit than the rest of the general public?
 
2008-06-16 12:20:28 PM
redmond24: I can't speak for the poor republicans who vote against their economic interest. They're just stupid.

Not feeling entitled to other people's money is "stupid"?
 
2008-06-16 12:22:01 PM
Skleenar: Did you read the article?

Now why would I do a silly thing like that?

Skleenar: There were some Republicans involved. Just not named in this article.

Hence all the talk of waiting until facts are known and evidence of wrong-doing is found. I just thought it was funny that a subject tailor made for a Fark outrage fest (corrupt politicians + sub-prime mortgage lenders) had almost no posts.
 
2008-06-16 12:22:44 PM
Dil Doe: I too benefit from something just like this. One of my good friends is an insurance agent, and he always gives me rates for auto and home insurance that are consistently lower than anything I've ever been able to find on the open market. There is absolutely nothing inappropriate (much less illegal) about it.

Granted, the fact that, in this case, the people benefiting from the lower rates are public officials, should perhaps raise some eyebrows. But unless someone can demonstrate that Countrywide got something in return from these officials they it should not have received, this is a nonstory.

Honestly, if this is the biggest "scandal" the GOP can dig up, it's time to get some better shovels.


I think the difference is that the Auto & Home Insurance industries aren't under such scrutiny and in the spotlight like the Mortgage companies.

No one's going to fault you for getting a good deal on your insurance. When you're in a position of power and people are still trying to cut you deals, and much better deals than normal americans would be able to recieve, then you start to raise eyebrows.
 
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