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(BBC)   Fuel hits £1.99 per litre in UK -- or $17.69 per gallon in USian money. Subby investing in shoe leather   (news.bbc.co.uk ) divider line
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14679 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Jun 2008 at 9:49 AM (8 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2008-06-16 11:28:27 AM  
i27.tinypic.com

Will the prices be reflected in Wee Britain?
 
2008-06-16 11:28:36 AM  
One man's profiteer is another man's shrewd investor. It's funny that a lot of the same people who were biatching that government needed to get off the back of business are the same one's that are biatching now about oil profiteers.

It should be obvious to even the staunchest capitalist that some government regulation is called for in every basic industry. The idea that pure capitalism will somehow regulate itself is a myth with absolutely no foundation in reality.
 
2008-06-16 11:29:42 AM  
The Icelander: Surpheon: President Bush is a Conservative, just like Ronald Reagan.

People who think Bush II is different from Reagan need a history lesson. About the only thing Reagan did different from Bush was run his wars correctly.


Isn't that enough?
 
2008-06-16 11:30:21 AM  
theurge14: Most places in America have at least one form of public transportation (bus) that people could use to commute to work with but most people in America sneer at the idea of giving up the luxury of their car to sit on a bus.

I live in a major city, so public transportation is readily available.

However, I've priced it out. I live 6 miles from work. Gas alone (I don't pay tolls or parking) comes out to less than I would pay for a bus pass. So I drive. When public transportation is less of a rip-off, maybe I'll use it.
 
2008-06-16 11:30:28 AM  
t3knomanser: meofcourse77: I see me as being homeless within the next few years if something does not change.

Change starts with you.


How can I change gas prices? If it gets too expensive for me to get to work, then I will have to stay home. If I can't afford to go to work, then how do I work? Drilling and refining here, so that we can lower gas prices is the only answer.
 
2008-06-16 11:30:55 AM  
static.flickr.com

Is that a litre of gas?
 
2008-06-16 11:30:59 AM  
trippdogg: One man's profiteer is another man's shrewd investor. It's funny that a lot of the same people who were biatching that government needed to get off the back of business are the same one's that are biatching now about oil profiteers.

It should be obvious to even the staunchest capitalist that some government regulation is called for in every basic industry. The idea that pure capitalism will somehow regulate itself is a myth with absolutely no foundation in reality.


The idea that we are now, or have ever been, anywhere close to "pure capitalism" is laughable. We're not even impure capitalism. We're essentially a highly regulated government overseen mercantilist economy at BEST. At worst we have shades of both piss poor economic socialism and piss poor economic fascism.

And still folks like to diss capitalism. Heh.
 
2008-06-16 11:31:21 AM  
Skeptos

I'm guessing you've never met one of the fifty million Americans who don't have health insurance.

From the age of 18 to 28 I never had health insurance. I never thought that I was owed health insurance either. No where in the constitution does it say that the government is supposed to provide me health insurance.

Now..could have I afforded health insurance. Yes I could. But....if i bought health insurance I would not have been able to buy beer, and pot, and other non essentials. I wonder how many of those 50 million americans that you are talking about fall under that category. I wonder how many of those 50 million are wealthy and choose to pay a doctor right out of their own pockets? Do you got stats on that?

Or one of the even larger number of Americans who have had to jump into a black hole of debt just so that they or their children could even have a chance at obtaining said "educations" and "careers." ("Congratulations! Your $80,000 of student loan debt has won you twenty years of indentured servitude to a soulless megacorp whose complete mercy you're at because you no longer have the right to unionize!")

That paragraph of yours is a complete massive failure.

Or even an American who has made intelligent choices about his education but, unfortunately, has a felony conviction on his record for a non-violent drug offense at age 18 and is therefore still unable to unable to obtain a career corresponding to his education at age 30 or 35.


"unfortunately" got busted for selling or transporting drugs...nice...... Personally, I dont think people should be locked up for non violent drug offenses. I think all drugs should be legalized. But thats a whole nother discussion.

Also, having an education in a specific field does not grant you a job in that said field. Life is hard. People need to learn how to adapt, and quit crying that things dont always work out like they want.

Crying that a felony drug chage from half your life ago is keeping you from earning a good living is a bunch of bullsh*t!

It's obvious to anyone who honestly looks that we have a shiatload of systemic problems in this country. Tired, self-serving Reagan-era platitudes about personal responsibility just don't fly these days with most people under 35 or thereabouts.

spoken like a true socialist.
 
2008-06-16 11:32:01 AM  
Whitewabbit: minimum wage is about £5-6 an hour, i earn about £14 / h. damn, never worked that out before, need better job.

Commute to Kansas. $28 an hour makes you in the top 5% around here.

Better dentists too.

:D

-Jason
 
2008-06-16 11:33:22 AM  
littlered: theurge14: littlered: theurge14: Talon: Yeah, and when Brits have to drive an hour to get to work instead of walking/biking a kilometer, I'll sympathize. Most of the cost for their fuel is taxes taken out to subsidize the public transportation they have.

I'd live closer to my workplace if houses didn't cost 500,000+ dollars to live within walking distance.

Most places in America have at least one form of public transportation (bus) that people could use to commute to work with but most people in America sneer at the idea of giving up the luxury of their car to sit on a bus.

You obviously have never visited Kansas City, Missouri. Wonderful city, but it has reached epic fail at a decent public transport system.

Obviously.

I take the JO every day downtown to work and back. My employer pays for the montly pass ($40) so I don't have to. The bus is clean and comfortable, the 40 minute ride is a great time to drink coffee and catch up on the news.

Perhaps you mean a different Kansas City. :P

I mentioned that it was Missouri? Yes, I did. The JO is not run with the planned inefficiency for the ATA. My BIL has to walk TWO MILES to the nearest bus stop (on 24 Hwy) from his house (in Independence) and then change twice to get to his job downtown at the Star. You have a 40 minute busride that is equal to a 40 minute commute. He has an hour and a half bus ride that is equal to a 20 minute commute.
I would love to ride the Metro, Light Rail, anything from my house (just blocks from the Metro's brand new main hub in Independence to my job at The Blue Ridge Tower. Guess what? It would take me over two hours and 3 transfers to get there. It's a 15 minute drive from my house straight down Sterling. Does an ATA bus go there? No it doesn't.

Again, I say KCMO mass transit = EPIC FAIL.


If you're saying Missouri is a farked up place to live I'm not going to argue. :)
 
2008-06-16 11:33:33 AM  
I live in the UK and pay about £1.30 / litre for diesel. My car gets an average of 55mpg (mostly city driving or it would be much higher - around 75mpg if I was sticking to motorways). That works out at about 14.5 miles per litre, and if I convert the cost per mile to USD, then even with our crazy taxes and fuel prices I pay about $0.175 per mile to drive here in the UK. Considering everything is packed tightly together I dont think that is too bad. How much does it actually cost in USD per mile with US gas prices and the larger cars that you have over there?
 
2008-06-16 11:34:25 AM  
trippdogg: One man's profiteer is another man's shrewd investor.

June: "I must have fuel to get to work, and Tesco might be dry by the time I get there, fark it, I'll pay Bob the two quid a gallon"
July: "Screw Bob, charging two quid a gallon last month, I'll refuel at Tesco"

Price gouging is very seldom shrewd.
 
2008-06-16 11:34:51 AM  
Minor hijack here.
I signed on as a hippie way back when it was all about peace. The enviro-crazy part came much later.

Kind of like the people who joined the Republican party when Eisenhower was president, they still identify as a Republican but...

So, I guess I'm a traditionalist hippie.

Peace.
 
2008-06-16 11:36:37 AM  
iollow: theurge14: Most places in America have at least one form of public transportation (bus) that people could use to commute to work with but most people in America sneer at the idea of giving up the luxury of their car to sit on a bus.

I live in a major city, so public transportation is readily available.

However, I've priced it out. I live 6 miles from work. Gas alone (I don't pay tolls or parking) comes out to less than I would pay for a bus pass. So I drive. When public transportation is less of a rip-off, maybe I'll use it.


I don't know about your city but most employers in mine pay for the monthly pass themselves as they receive tax incentives to do so. Here in KC the JO which drives from Johnson county more than 10 miles outside of downtown is $1.25 to go downtown one way. The monthly pass is $40. Thanks to my work I pay nothing.
 
2008-06-16 11:36:37 AM  
nosajghoul: Whitewabbit: minimum wage is about £5-6 an hour, i earn about £14 / h. damn, never worked that out before, need better job.

Commute to Kansas. $28 an hour makes you in the top 5% around here.

Better dentists too.

:D

-Jason


:P the idea of living in the states used to appeal, but i think life in the UK is more my cup of tea these days. perhaps when labour get kicked out the UK will actually start getting better again.
 
2008-06-16 11:36:42 AM  
meofcourse77: Drilling and refining here, so that we can lower gas prices is the only answer.

No, that isn't the only answer. They're good ideas, mind you, but they're not the only answer.

You started the hyperbole with the prediction that you would end up homeless. If one were truly faced with such a dire outcome, there are lots of options that are probably more favorable. For starters, you could do any combination of the following: move, change jobs, take refuge in college (Federal loans don't have to be paid back until after you graduate and can be used for living expenses), go on public assistance, take on a second job that doesn't require the same commuting commitment.

I mean, if the alternative is homelessness, those aren't really serious changes in comparison.
 
2008-06-16 11:38:01 AM  
utter_bastard: They use imperial gallons there, so that is 4.54 liters per gallon.

Which works out to be 9.04 pounds per gallon.

At the current exchange rate that is 17.77 a gallon.


Dude, doing the math isn't the only thing. You also need to check if the math you are doing makes sense in the first place. The only possible reason to convert it to gallons would be for comparison to US prices. So what does the imperial gallon have to do with anything at all?
 
2008-06-16 11:39:50 AM  
Darth Shatner:

Your newsletter.

Show me it.
 
2008-06-16 11:40:27 AM  
One of the myriad problems Detroit has is the lack of a functioning public transit system. I live 18 miles from work (which is just north of Detroit, about 1/2 mile off 8 Mile) and if I drove 5 miles I could take the bus for another 1.25 hours to go the 13 miles to the nearest bus, and then walk another mile to work.

I'd almost be willing to consider this even though I can tell you the bus clientele in the Detroit area is a bit shady, except that the bus doesn't run early enough to get me to work by 7:00.

To all of the "You don't need to live in a cheap house out in the suburbs" people, do YOU want to live in Eminem's old stomping grounds? The suburbs aren't cheap here either. I could live in Ferndale, but then you're talking either dirtbag apartments for $700 a month or a small *old* house for $250,000.
 
2008-06-16 11:40:48 AM  
I live in the city and drive 1 hour to work in the suburbs.

I'm cool.
 
2008-06-16 11:41:41 AM  
You think you guys got it bad? Over here we're paying...

Oh, wait. Yeah. Sorry guys. Not much I can do for you. Just know you're not the only ones in the world outraged at these prices.

/Lower some of those taxes and I hear the price would drop substantialy.
//Envies the Mass Transit programs most cities have.
///Do want.
 
2008-06-16 11:41:51 AM  
The_Original_Roxtar
/teh google sez (^) it's $14.78 per gallon
which is (UK£ 1.99) per litre = 17.7514796 U.S. dollars per Imperial gallon

More accurately

(Viewing that in the UK tells me price in Imperial gallons)
/Another case of forgetting there's a place outside teh US
// 8/10 for effort
 
2008-06-16 11:42:40 AM  
t3knomanser: ottawaboy: And this trend is slowly changing. The under-30 crowd is moving into the cities and bringing their tax dollars with them. The newer suburbs that popped up in the past ten years? They're going to be ghettos in the near future.

VERY slowly at best. Americans moved away from the cities because they had become run down, crowded, crime ridden hell holes. It is going to take more than gasoline going up a few dollars a gallon to draw people back. Gasoline at $4 sure as hell isn't going to make people give up back yards and peace and quiet on the weekends.
 
2008-06-16 11:43:57 AM  
Talon: Yeah, and when Brits have to drive an hour to get to work instead of walking/biking a kilometer, I'll sympathize. Most of the cost for their fuel is taxes taken out to subsidize the public transportation they have.

I'd live closer to my workplace if houses didn't cost 500,000+ dollars to live within walking distance.


Yeah, and when Americans realise that when they open their mouths without checking their facts first it makes them sound stupid. I'll not call the guilty ones thick as pig sh*t.

Don't be as thick as pig sh*t talon, you're on the internet, go and check your facts before you open your cheeseburger-hole.
 
Pav
2008-06-16 11:44:16 AM  
Let me sum up this thread

Farkers- "Oh the people who designed America forced me to live far away from my work and then tricked me into buying a gas guzzler so that I wouldn't be able to afford my commute to work. I am completely absolved from any blame because other people did this to me. I am not responsible for my energy consumption and someone other than me should cut their energy consumption so that my bills will go down."
 
2008-06-16 11:44:35 AM  
cfish78: you are mean. since you dont realize that, youre also an asshole. a mean asshole. fark you!

WINNER!

/however, since you didn't quote them, we have no idea who the asshole is.
 
2008-06-16 11:44:37 AM  
nosajghoul: Commute to Kansas. $28 an hour makes you in the top 5% around here.

Better dentists too.

:D

-Jason


Apparently not
 
2008-06-16 11:44:49 AM  
Talon: Yeah, and when Brits have to drive an hour to get to work instead of walking/biking a kilometer, I'll sympathize. Most of the cost for their fuel is taxes taken out to subsidize the public transportation they have.

I'd live closer to my workplace if houses didn't cost 500,000+ dollars to live within walking distance.


Foreigners (and Americans in particular)have this strange, 1950's-esque view of what it is like to live and work in the UK. We all live within walking distance of where we work, Mr Sprout the greengrocer, Mr Loaf the Baker, cricket on the green at weekends etc..

In the 30+ years I lived there, I never once lived close enough to where I worked to walk. Last place was a 1hr drive away. Public transport is just as crappy in some parts of the UK as it is in the States.
 
2008-06-16 11:44:52 AM  
Wizzin:
VERY slowly at best. Americans moved away from the cities because they had become run down, crowded, crime ridden hell holes. It is going to take more than gasoline going up a few dollars a gallon to draw people back. Gasoline at $4 sure as hell isn't going to make people give up back yards and peace and quiet on the weekends.

I'm 26, almost 27.

Most people I know in my age group DESPISE the suburbs.

Don't know anyone who wants to move there.

Hence me living in the city and working in the suburbs.

Suburbs now house many crackheads and deadbeats.

Nobody wants to go there.
 
2008-06-16 11:47:49 AM  
img114.imageshack.us
 
2008-06-16 11:47:59 AM  
Wizzin: Americans moved away from the cities because they had become run down, crowded, crime ridden hell holes. It is going to take more than gasoline going up a few dollars a gallon to draw people back.

You're confusing cause with effect. Really, it was a synergistic effect. People moved out of the cities which took money out of the economy which caused it to become run down and encouraged crime which drove more people out of the city.

Wizzin: Gasoline at $4 sure as hell isn't going to make people give up back yards and peace and quiet on the weekends.

Spoken like someone that has never been in a residential neighborhood of a moderately sized city. Seriously- my neighborhood is full of yards and is quiet as anything. And there's plenty of restaurants, bars and shops in walking distance. There are several other neighborhoods in Pittsburgh that fall into the same category, and some of them are quite affordable (my neck of the woods? Not so much. Houses start at $250K, 1BR condos at $150K).

The point is, cities aren't all skyscrapers and traffic.
 
2008-06-16 11:48:11 AM  
DaShredda: I'm in the exact situation as you. I live in Univ City and drive to the corner of NE Philly/Bucks every day.
 
2008-06-16 11:48:53 AM  
Pav: Let me sum up this thread

Farkers- "Oh the people who designed America forced me to live far away from my work and then tricked me into buying a gas guzzler so that I wouldn't be able to afford my commute to work. I am completely absolved from any blame because other people did this to me. I am not responsible for my energy consumption and someone other than me should cut their energy consumption so that my bills will go down."


F.U..

I made a decision to live where I do based, in part, on the price of gas when I bought my house.

So now I'm an asshole because of that decision?

Again, F.U..
 
2008-06-16 11:49:15 AM  
DaShredda: I'm 26, almost 27.

Most people I know in my age group DESPISE the suburbs.


I'm in the same boat, but I'm 28. My wife is 26.
 
2008-06-16 11:49:16 AM  
img255.imageshack.us

BP is robbing the Brits. They buy gas using British Pounds. It cost about 70 pounds per barrel with the currency exchange. What is the cost to the refiners? Someone is making a boat load of money.

Joke: Why did the bee cross it's legs?

Answer: It could not find a bee pee station. :-)
 
2008-06-16 11:49:21 AM  
theurge14: Talon: Yeah, and when Brits have to drive an hour to get to work instead of walking/biking a kilometer, I'll sympathize. Most of the cost for their fuel is taxes taken out to subsidize the public transportation they have.

I'd live closer to my workplace if houses didn't cost 500,000+ dollars to live within walking distance.

Most places in America have at least one form of public transportation (bus) that people could use to commute to work with but most people in America sneer at the idea of giving up the luxury of their car to sit on a bus.


I'd love to know where you live... In my experience (living in five states, and in Sweden for a year), the US system is VERY VERY VERY rudimentary, when you get outside of the metropolises. Light rail isn't very common (I'm thrilled there's some in St. Louis, even if it isn't very close to me, and doesn't go within 20 miles of where I work), and the bus schedules / routes are focused on the inner-city / non-suburban areas.

I'd take public transit if it was viable / available. Comparing / contrasting with Sweden? The US system is NOT advanced, and doesn't encourage or offer a comparable alternative to cars. Tie that in with employers generally non-flexible on work hours, it further diminishes the viability of public transit.

Who wants to sit at the office for an hour+ (either working unpaid, or trying to get access to the office before "standard hours)?
 
2008-06-16 11:49:25 AM  
t3knomanser: Our secret?
1) My wife works from home.
2) We live in the city, and only a few blocks from the "Bus Way"- ie. a highway dedicated to buses and emergency vehicles. I bus to work every day.


It will take a while, but I think a long-term effect of these high gas prices will be a change in America's style of living. A greater interest in cycling should prompt more and better bike paths. Higher energy costs will push for more efficient homes. But maybe it will be enough to radically change the "American Dream": perhaps the house in the 'burbs with the white picket fence will be replaced by a high quality apartment. I know I'd like to be able to walk easily and safely to the stores, work, schools, and restaurants. And I'm much prefer to share a 100 acre park with 300 families than have my own 1/3rd of an acre.
 
2008-06-16 11:50:09 AM  
Firemarshalbill: DaShredda: I'm in the exact situation as you. I live in Univ City and drive to the corner of NE Philly/Bucks every day.

WTF!?!?!?!

I live at 48th and Hazel and drive to PRINCETON every day.
 
2008-06-16 11:50:47 AM  
img253.imageshack.us
img253.imageshack.us

i thought they rode their places of employment to... er, um, got nothing, really...
 
2008-06-16 11:50:59 AM  
theurge14: littlered: theurge14: littlered: theurge14: Talon: Yeah, and when Brits have to drive an hour to get to work instead of walking/biking a kilometer, I'll sympathize. Most of the cost for their fuel is taxes taken out to subsidize the public transportation they have.

I'd live closer to my workplace if houses didn't cost 500,000+ dollars to live within walking distance.

Most places in America have at least one form of public transportation (bus) that people could use to commute to work with but most people in America sneer at the idea of giving up the luxury of their car to sit on a bus.

You obviously have never visited Kansas City, Missouri. Wonderful city, but it has reached epic fail at a decent public transport system.

Obviously.

I take the JO every day downtown to work and back. My employer pays for the montly pass ($40) so I don't have to. The bus is clean and comfortable, the 40 minute ride is a great time to drink coffee and catch up on the news.

Perhaps you mean a different Kansas City. :P

I mentioned that it was Missouri? Yes, I did. The JO is not run with the planned inefficiency for the ATA. My BIL has to walk TWO MILES to the nearest bus stop (on 24 Hwy) from his house (in Independence) and then change twice to get to his job downtown at the Star. You have a 40 minute busride that is equal to a 40 minute commute. He has an hour and a half bus ride that is equal to a 20 minute commute.
I would love to ride the Metro, Light Rail, anything from my house (just blocks from the Metro's brand new main hub in Independence to my job at The Blue Ridge Tower. Guess what? It would take me over two hours and 3 transfers to get there. It's a 15 minute drive from my house straight down Sterling. Does an ATA bus go there? No it doesn't.

Again, I say KCMO mass transit = EPIC FAIL.

If you're saying Missouri is a farked up place to live I'm not going to argue. :)


Not going to argue with you either, Smugly.

I absolutely adore where I live, just as I'm sure you do. There's just trade offs no matter where you live, the Missouri side will never, ever get our shiat together to get a decent mass transit/light rail system together.

I've lived on both sides of the state line and overall, I prefer my house in Eastern Jackson to the Condo I owned in Overland Park. Twice as much house and land, less than half the taxes.
 
2008-06-16 11:51:52 AM  
Belltower: It will take a while, but I think a long-term effect of these high gas prices will be a change in America's style of living.

I think basically this generation of 20-somethings will settle and stay in the cities. The over 40 crowd will tough it out in the burbs.
 
2008-06-16 11:54:21 AM  
remindme: i thought they rode their places of employment to... er, um, got nothing, really...

I'm thinking you may be leaning towards this portion of the movie...
 
2008-06-16 11:55:04 AM  
Scratch that, image failed me.
 
2008-06-16 11:55:57 AM  
Abner Doon: utter_bastard: They use imperial gallons there, so that is 4.54 liters per gallon.

Which works out to be 9.04 pounds per gallon.

At the current exchange rate that is 17.77 a gallon.

Dude, doing the math isn't the only thing. You also need to check if the math you are doing makes sense in the first place. The only possible reason to convert it to gallons would be for comparison to US prices. So what does the imperial gallon have to do with anything at all?


Further, it is not accurate comparison because Brits do not buying gas using USD. They are purchasing petrol with British Pounds.
 
2008-06-16 11:55:59 AM  
While I'm definitely on the side of those who've said not every city in America has a public transportation system to use, I'll also say not all of us who have access to it are sneering at it, either.

I lucked into a very nice government job that pays for part of my bus pass. Without that bus pass, I doubt I'd be able to keep that job as it's a pretty good distance away from my house. I still have to drive, to get to the local Park and Ride to get on the bus, but not nearly as far as if I was to drive directly to the office.

And I love the bus. It drops me about 1/2 a mile from my office in the morning so I get a nice little walk before work. The pickup stop is right outside my office, so at the end of the day if I'm tired it's not a big ordeal to get to the bus stop. I can (and do) read a book, watch a DVD on my portable, slap the iPod on and sleep...any number of things. Plus, the bus takes our HOV lane so it's actually quicker than if I drove myself.

And I know, I know...this is fark and you're all thinking "Bully for you, Pollyanna! Now STFU!" but I'm just saying not everyone is turning their nose up to public transit. I couldn't wait to get my bus card, and that was right before everything started getting outragious at the pump.
 
2008-06-16 11:56:38 AM  
DaShredda: Firemarshalbill: DaShredda: I'm in the exact situation as you. I live in Univ City and drive to the corner of NE Philly/Bucks every day.

WTF!?!?!?!

I live at 48th and Hazel and drive to PRINCETON every day.


47th and Pine here. That was my last commute before I switched jobs. Right off 206 in princeton by the border of Montgomery. I hated every day.
 
2008-06-16 11:58:41 AM  
Firemarshalbill: 47th and Pine here.

4 or 5 blocks away, but that's a MUCH nicer area than where I am lol
 
2008-06-16 11:59:31 AM  
www.yeoldecuriosityshop.com


My bus pass cost me $65 last month. It cost me $65 this month, and it will cost me $65 next month.
 
2008-06-16 12:01:00 PM  
Torchsong: It drops me about 1/2 a mile from my office in the morning so I get a nice little walk before work.

I use two different bus routes on my commute. In the morning, I get picked up on the corner infront of my building and get dropped off a block from work. On the way home, I walk half a mile to get to the stop to leave downtown, then another half mile to get from my stop to my apartment.

I could do it with less walking and more time spent on buses, but I appreciate the exercise.
 
2008-06-16 12:02:22 PM  
My idea is to wait for things to get worse some more.

Then start buying subdivisions in suburbs for pennies on the dollar. The business plan? Turn them into paintball ranges.

Between Congress & Wall St wanting to raise home prices, high oil prices, and American's love of guns I think it is a slam dunk.

Plus you could always rent the ranges out to the burgeoning 'private security' corporations shepherded by Rumsfeld.
 
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