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(Minneapolis Star Tribune)   Three boys suspended from school and barred from graduation because they were waving a Confederate Flag on school grounds before the school day started   ( startribune.com) divider line
    More: Stupid  
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8243 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Jun 2008 at 3:01 PM (9 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2008-06-04 04:23:10 PM  
amazing_live_seamonkeys: Only the offensive speech you dumbass.

Oh, well that is a good reason! If it offends someone, we get rid of it. That means close down all churches (they offend me), anti war protests (they offend some soldiers), pro war protests (they offend the anti war protesters), complaints against politicians (they offend the politicians).

I know you were being sarcastic, but I've heard this stupid ass logic used by people who were either Constitution hating PC liberals or Constitution hating religious neo-cons.
 
2008-06-04 04:23:33 PM  
liam76: Rapmaster2000: Confederate flags are very popular in the North with worthless losers.

I have lived in the south and when I see a confederate flag, I think he is probably racist. When I see them in NJ I know they are racist.


What if the individual also has an Obama sticker on his car?
 
2008-06-04 04:23:53 PM  
mmm... pancake: The First Amendment was meant to protect only speech that we all like.

Actually, they're perfectly free to fly if they want, but not where they want.

I'm not a lawyer, but trying to recall my educational law classes, it's similar to crying fire in a crowded theater. It's more important to eliminate the falsely induced panic than allow free speech. In schools, it's more important to educate rather than allow substantial distractions from the learning process.

The rub of course is what constitutes substantial disruptions.

Black arm bands, spiked hair, or even just wearing red?
 
2008-06-04 04:23:54 PM  
Great Metal Jesus: There is nothing funnier than confederate flags in NORTHERN FARKIN' CALIFORNIA.

I die a little inside when I see them here in PA, a stone's throw away from Gettysburg.
 
2008-06-04 04:24:04 PM  
Nestea Plunge: A traitor's rag.

SO much typical liberal hypocrisy in here. You defend anyones right to burn a flag and condemn those who would wave another because "it's offensive".

Turn in your ACLU cards. And take a bath.
 
2008-06-04 04:24:06 PM  
Great Metal Jesus: Rapmaster2000: When I see it up North, I know exactly what I'm looking at. Sometimes Northern flag wavers will say it's because "they're a rebel" but if you give them a few seconds you'll hear the racism.

There is nothing funnier than confederate flags in NORTHERN FARKIN' CALIFORNIA.

/We also have Civil War reenactments


What the hell? I'm imagining a confederate flag on a bio diesel Vanagon.

/head asplodes
 
2008-06-04 04:24:14 PM  
Great Metal Jesus: Rapmaster2000: When I see it up North, I know exactly what I'm looking at. Sometimes Northern flag wavers will say it's because "they're a rebel" but if you give them a few seconds you'll hear the racism.

There is nothing funnier than confederate flags in NORTHERN FARKIN' CALIFORNIA.

/We also have Civil War reenactments


The South (bay) will rise again!
 
2008-06-04 04:24:37 PM  
Why can't we send Rednecks waving around emblems of treason to Guantanamo Bay?

Oh, they aren't Muslim. I see...?
 
2008-06-04 04:24:47 PM  
actual confederate flag

upload.wikimedia.org

Yes, what people display was not actually the confederate flag.

But ignorant people from the south aren't known for their knowledge of history.
 
2008-06-04 04:24:47 PM  
Orgasmatron138: wmoonfox: Orgasmatron138: Ditto: what_now: It's the flag of traitors

Those traitors had the balls to stand up to a tyrannical government with overwhelming firepower.

I doubt anyone in this thread has the balls for that, seeing as how there is not a civil war going on in the United States right this second.

That may be the dumbest, most nonsensical argument I've ever seen here on Fark, and I've been reading since the pickle incident.

Which is why people like you pay others to fight your wars. You simply wouldn't understand the concept of standing up for what you believe in, even when the odds are against you.

Do you celebrate 9/11 because the Muslim extremists stood up for what they believed in, even when the odds were against them?

I don't have to respect people standing up for what they believe in when what they believe in is slavery.

Plus, what you are saying has nothing to do with anything I said. It was completely irrelevant and I actually feel like I'm trying to explain physics to a retarded 5 year old.


I still say you don't have the balls to do it, even if the cause were "right".
 
2008-06-04 04:25:07 PM  
Yossarian22: liam76: Rapmaster2000: Confederate flags are very popular in the North with worthless losers.

I have lived in the south and when I see a confederate flag, I think he is probably racist. When I see them in NJ I know they are racist.

What if the individual also has an Obama sticker on his car?


They support the white half?
 
2008-06-04 04:25:30 PM  
Orgasmatron138: Do you celebrate 9/11 because the Muslim extremists stood up for what they believed in, even when the odds were against them?

Because a group of extremists killing thousands of innocent, unarmed civilians is exactly the same as an under-armed and under-manned military force squaring off against a superior enemy and fighting a losing battle for several years.

I don't have to respect people standing up for what they believe in when what they believe in is slavery.

The arguments against the civil war being waged solely or even primarily to further the cause of slavery are so numerous and well-trodden that I won't repeat them here for the umpteenth time. I'll simply say that you are misinformed and should probably stop spouting 160-year-old propaganda if you want to sound at all intelligent.

Plus, what you are saying has nothing to do with anything I said. It was completely irrelevant and I actually feel like I'm trying to explain physics to a retarded 5 year old.

Ad-hominems... way to keep it classy. I guess that's why we don't call it "Northern Hospitality".
 
2008-06-04 04:25:54 PM  
Yossarian22: liam76: Rapmaster2000: Confederate flags are very popular in the North with worthless losers.

I have lived in the south and when I see a confederate flag, I think he is probably racist. When I see them in NJ I know they are racist.

What if the individual also has an Obama sticker on his car?


Well, if they're black it's because they're racist. If they're white, it's because they're a traitor to our glorious white race. If they're anything else, they're a dumb terrorist foreigner that thinks it says Osama.
 
2008-06-04 04:25:58 PM  
well.... if they were stupid enough to do it, then why not....

however,
*Suspended* for a day or a few, I can see,

but BARRED from **graduation**?!?!
c'mon!
 
2008-06-04 04:26:06 PM  
whconner4: the_rev No likey the maps?

Just the violent crime one. It seems a little skewed to express that as evenly distributed over entire regions instead of showing where the crimes are committed, which are naturally in the more populous areas. *shrug*
 
2008-06-04 04:26:45 PM  
danfrank: Broadside: This is also the flag of traitors.
But it's OK because the good side won, right?

Actually, yes, that's exactly right. Or are we not supposed to make any sort of judgement on whether rebellions are "good" or not?


Well, I guess history truly is written by the victors. The 13-star American flag was flown by a group of slave-owning white guys who were traitors to their county.

The Confederate flag(s) was flown by a group of slave-owning white guys who were traitors to their county.

I guess the point of my post was - find something more substantial to back up the displeasure with the Confederate flag than than "they were a bunch of traitors."
 
2008-06-04 04:27:27 PM  
Yossarian22: liam76: Rapmaster2000: Confederate flags are very popular in the North with worthless losers.

I have lived in the south and when I see a confederate flag, I think he is probably racist. When I see them in NJ I know they are racist.

What if the individual also has an Obama sticker on his car?


Split personality disorder?

Maybe probably is too strong. I have known of people who aren't racist who sported the confederate flag in the south (I even knew black people, but this was 18+ yrs ago, and I think it may be less popular now). My point was everybody I have met fromt he north who sports it also happens to not like black people (but they are somtimes rather fond of rap).
 
2008-06-04 04:27:46 PM  
Lt. Cheese Weasel: Nestea Plunge: A traitor's rag.

SO much typical liberal hypocrisy in here. You defend anyones right to burn a flag and condemn those who would wave another because "it's offensive".

Turn in your ACLU cards. And take a bath.


AGREED. As long as the left can burn American flags, it's pretty hard to argue that waving a Confederate flag should be punished.

/hope the rednecks sue for alot and WIN
//they hypocrisy of the left continues
 
2008-06-04 04:27:57 PM  
Lt. Cheese Weasel: SO much typical liberal hypocrisy in here. You defend anyones right to burn a flag and condemn those who would wave another because "it's offensive".

I would actually condemn them both, but defend both parties right express themselves as they see fit.

As has been said before, the issue here is where the kids were doing it. Freedom of speech is severely limited on school grounds.
 
2008-06-04 04:28:06 PM  
Yossarian22: liam76: Rapmaster2000: Confederate flags are very popular in the North with worthless losers.

I have lived in the south and when I see a confederate flag, I think he is probably racist. When I see them in NJ I know they are racist.

What if the individual also has an Obama sticker on his car?


You can find one of these cars located somewhere between a unicorn and a leprechaun.
 
2008-06-04 04:28:18 PM  
I don't understand. How does anyone know it was a Confederate Flag, and not just any old white flag?
 
2008-06-04 04:28:26 PM  
MisfitDoctor

No. I find liberals less likely (save for tractable, dirty hippies) to be far less likely to regurgitate ideas and such than conservatives who actually require their own Wiki, cable news network and endless AM talkshows to tell them what their ideas are in and up-to-the-minute fashion. Many can't speak but in talking points. Not to mention sheepish devotion the radicalized Christian doctrine that allows for even less individual thought than the public schools the often never get diplomas for.
 
2008-06-04 04:28:29 PM  
Samsaran: tonesskin: The Civil War was in the 1800s. Get over it.

Nice, you got it narrowed down to a century. You must be a public school graduate.

/just kidding tonesskin: please don't kill me


No, Catholic school. All we learned is that both the North and South were pro abortion and used birth control.

Without looking it up, I think the "conflict" started in the late 1850s and ended in the middle 1860s, with the "main" part of the "war" lasting from 1860 to 1865. That was what lead to the Revolutionary War, quickly followed by World War II, then the War of 1812, then World War I.

All I'm saying is that white women typically don't have sex with black women. I meant no offense.
 
2008-06-04 04:28:42 PM  
Broadside: I guess the point of my post was - find something more substantial to back up the displeasure with the Confederate flag than than "they were a bunch of traitors."

They were a bunch of traitor losers.
 
2008-06-04 04:29:06 PM  
Broadside:

I guess the point of my post was - find something more substantial to back up the displeasure with the Confederate flag than than "they were a bunch of traitors."


Possibly because I am in the American group of traitors, but I am not in the Confederate group of traitors?

Basically, they're freedom fighters when they're on my side.
 
2008-06-04 04:29:27 PM  
nodubs: *facepalm*


I swear, the hicks here are just as bad as down south. A good dozen morans from my class (02, Brainerd) did this same stupid shiat. Everyone laughed at them then, and I still laugh at them now.


Oh, for Pete's sake.

www.webstar.co.uk

/My mother is from Brainerd. Good to meet ya!
 
2008-06-04 04:29:59 PM  
DoctorCal: I don't understand. How does anyone know it was a Confederate Flag, and not just any old white flag?

RTFA it said they were from MN not France.
 
2008-06-04 04:30:02 PM  
DoctorCal: I don't understand. How does anyone know it was a Confederate Flag, and not just any old white flag?

Awesome. You sir, have won this thread.
 
2008-06-04 04:30:05 PM  
Principal Ron Simmons reportedly spoke with the boys shortly after the incident and suspended each of them for three days based on the district's anti-discrimination rules.

Apparently they are free to discriminate against free speech.

sab6300: The real question is why should kids have the right to free speech? Until they are 18 or pay property tax they should just STFU


The kid that was identified was 18.
 
2008-06-04 04:30:12 PM  
Rapmaster2000: What the hell? I'm imagining a confederate flag on a bio diesel Vanagon.

As awesome as that would be they're on the same beat up trucks you see them on everywhere. But hey, there's a place not far from here that flies an American flag, a Confederate flag, and Israel's flag. My head explodes every time I drive by it.
 
2008-06-04 04:30:16 PM  
whconner4: Pattern here? I think that last one might have something to do with it.

Do you have sources for those images, esp the Violent Crime and Graduation data? Would be interesting to read those reports.
 
2008-06-04 04:31:14 PM  
mediaho: I die a little inside when I see them here in PA, a stone's throw away from Gettysburg.

This July is the 145th anniversary of Gettysburg. In less than a month be ready to die ALOT inside.
 
2008-06-04 04:31:21 PM  
I love living in the United States because of all of the freedom we have, such as, um - er...

Wait, what??

/REAL tired of this Bullsh*t
 
2008-06-04 04:31:37 PM  
the_rev: I'd rather see the 'violent crimes' distribution map colored on a county-by-county basis, instead of painting all the southern states red, and calling it 'by region.'

Here ya go:

nationalatlas.gov
Percent of population affected by murders for the year 2002, by county.


nationalatlas.gov
Percent of population affected by larcenies for the year 1995, by county
 
2008-06-04 04:33:01 PM  
Anyone who is offended by the confederate flag doesn't know their history.

Here's a good place to start. Figure out how Gen States Rights Gist, September 3, 1831 - November 30, 1864, got his name: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/States_Rights_Gist

And notice that the war didn't start until 1861.
 
2008-06-04 04:33:21 PM  
We should have let the South go. They've done nothing but hold us back. They suck up welfare dollars like nobodies business.
 
2008-06-04 04:33:28 PM  
Gooseycheeks: Principal Ron Simmons reportedly spoke with the boys shortly after the incident and suspended each of them for three days based on the district's anti-discrimination rules.

Apparently they are free to discriminate against free speech.

sab6300: The real question is why should kids have the right to free speech? Until they are 18 or pay property tax they should just STFU


The kid that was identified was 18.


Ok we will add a provision if you are still in K-12 school, sit down, shut up, and do what you're told. After that if you want to milk zebras go for it.
 
2008-06-04 04:33:35 PM  
It is funny how many rednecks (not to be confused with "All southerners," by the way- we've got rednecks up north, too) don't mind us running into Iraq blowing crap up and telling THEM how to live. Hell, we even got Halliburton to play the part of the carpetbaggers! Yet, nary a peep about THAT.

But when the north stepped in to stop THEIR rebellion, forged in the name of preserving slavery, (bottom line, what other "states' rights" were really behind this, really? The Save states wanted provisions that slavery could not be abolished EVEN if abolition passed a VOTE in the state (that would mean a vote BY southerners, basically). Hardly defending what's Constitutional. So stop sugar-coating it. Too many rednecks are gleefully watching their hero Bush piss on the Constitution - with little more than lip-service opposition from the Democrats, incidentally - so don't insult us by acting like THAT quaint little document really means a damn thing to you.) well, that was BAD. THAT was "Northern Aggression".

kind of ironic.

However...

Was the north full of angels? Hell no. A lot of the abolitionists wanted slavery ended just so they could get rid of ALL the black people here (and that's probably because they were easiest to spot, they felt similarly about immigrants, particularly Germans, Italians, & Irish, and (hey, why not?) Catholics, too- it was a BIG deal when Kennedy, a catholic, was elected 100 years later, remember). So lets not fool ourselves here about one side being "right" or "wrong" and it certainly wasn't a big ol' kissy-huggy diversity rainbow cutting across the northern sky, either.

Nor were northerners offering the south any sort of economically viable escape from the "peculiar institution". The north, and the world's developing industrial base demanded ever-growing amounts of cotton, etc, but they offered nothing in relief, subsidy, technology or alternative harvesting methods to the south to keep providing it. And the battle between slave-owners and abolitionists often got so caught up in the language of law, especially pertaining to the territories awaiting statehood, that compromising enough to allow slave owners to even ween themselves off was difficult to accomplish. When that sort of language was involved, it usually lacked "no slavery" language, so the hard line abolitionists would reject it outright, for instance. Kansas comes to mind.

So in many ways, the South was in a hell of a bind, and resentment grew at northern arrogance and ignorance, with increasing demands that were unreasonable because they made ridding this dying institution slavery virtually impossible (without completely wreaking havoc upon the economy- and not just the south's mind you) while demanding it be dissolved.

Incidentally, read up on the conventions of 1860 if you want to see a bunch of pig-headed "you're with us or against us" unbudging, uncompromising, every-issue-is-either-black-or-white, talking-points-over-discourse, pseudo-militaristic nonsense and ask yourself if it reminds you of how people in a certain country are acting today.

just replace mason-dixon with red state/blue state

oh, and if you hate Obama, read how Lincoln got nominated. Let's just say he was more or less encouraged to run on his low-impact persona & "electability" and to, more or less, keep his mouth shut on the issues to ensure that he didn't irritate the fence sitters or the opposition and blow it for somewhat fledgling republican party. He was basically a dark horse, suddenly thrust into the fray by political handlers who pulled some crafty moves to take advantage of the Democratic split and ensure a Republican victory, and they slapped down the well-known front-runner, William Seward, to do it.

same as it ever was...
same as it ever was...
 
2008-06-04 04:33:37 PM  
Here is the problem.

People don;t understand what freedom of speech means.

It is the freedom to say or write whatever you want. It doesn't mean you can say it wherever you want though. Would yoit violate my freedom of speech if I couldn't scream outside your window at 4 AM? The same thing applies here. It isn;t just that it is govt property (that is part of it) it is also that that school is there for everyone to learn. These asshats by thier little parade took away from that purpose (I can see the argument that since it was before school hours that it really didn't disrupt anything).

By your bringing up your canadian citizenship and questioning american freedoms I am guessing you are implying the canadian speech laws are superior. Tell me could I go into any canadian govt building and scream my message? Could I block streets wiht likeminded friends and scream a political message? HoYou want to explain the Canadian Human Rights Comission, from my undersatanding if stating facts hurts your feelings then I am guilty of a human rights violation in canada.


Guessed wrong, I just wanted wanted to get a better understanding about why everyone was so upset. But thanks for inferring things about me because of my place of origin. I guess it doesn't take a confederate flag to see the hate.
 
2008-06-04 04:33:37 PM  
Yeah, only in America.

The South shall come again.
 
2008-06-04 04:33:38 PM  
ninjakirby - those are based on census data for the most part and the images are from various sources. Just check out the data at the source.
 
2008-06-04 04:33:39 PM  
Third_Uncle_Eno: well.... if they were stupid enough to do it, then why not....

however,
*Suspended* for a day or a few, I can see,

but BARRED from **graduation**?!?!
c'mon!


Sounds right to me. Would you want their whole families (and their total of six teeth) in the room with you?
 
2008-06-04 04:34:03 PM  
Anyone who uses the confederate flag to promote racism doesn't know their history and are disrespecting their ancestors.
 
2008-06-04 04:34:34 PM  
gotrootdude: Anyone who is offended by the confederate flag doesn't know their history.

You could say the same thing about the swastika, but it doesn't help there either.
 
2008-06-04 04:35:02 PM  
Yossarian22: mediaho: I die a little inside when I see them here in PA, a stone's throw away from Gettysburg.

This July is the 145th anniversary of Gettysburg. In less than a month be ready to die ALOT inside.

Link (new window)

here's a link to the reenactment information.
 
2008-06-04 04:35:20 PM  
mediaho: ...somewhere between a unicorn and a leprechaun.

Minnesota's taint
 
2008-06-04 04:35:22 PM  
Nestea Plunge: A traitor's rag.

Exactly.

Anyone flying the confederate flag should be hung.
 
2008-06-04 04:35:27 PM  
Kyosuke: gotrootdude: Anyone who is offended by the confederate flag doesn't know their history.

You could say the same thing about the swastika, but it doesn't help there either.


I was trying to figure out how to bring that one up with out godwinning the thread. Screw it.

You know who else changed the meaning of symbols?
 
2008-06-04 04:35:53 PM  
I believe the reason why some Southerners cling to that flag so strongly (other than the obvious racism/douchebaggery angle) is that it represents what they believe to be one of their best and foremost qualities--rebelliousness against tyranny. Of course, why they choose to use a minor naval ensign instead of the real Confederate flag is still a mystery.

Rob
 
2008-06-04 04:36:52 PM  
Arguing about the causes (or winners/losers) of the Civil War = pointless.
It ended 140+ years ago, and its causes have been debated pretty much ever since. The war itself was pretty much settled by Lee & Grant (you may have read about their little meeting at Appomattox - and yes, I know about the skirmishes fought after Appomattox).
The Confederate flag is indeed a traitor's rag, but if you fly it, you should be no more punished BY THE US GOVERNMENT than for flying the Klan symbol, or a swastika, or the Union Jack, or the Ugandan flag...
As we all know, schools are not viewed in the same way as the rest of the country. Students' "rights" exist only inasmuch as they do not impact the raison d'etre of schools (i.e. to function as learning institutions). Bong Hits 4 Jesus, Tinker, etc only reinforce the notion that schools have a statutorily different standard by which to set rules (however draconian we feel they are). School is for learnin', your pickup truck is for the stars and bars.
Free speech does not protect those we agree with, but those with whom we disagree the loudest. Voltaire: "I disagree with what you say, but will defend to the death your right to say it."

Kids, enjoy your time at home while your confederates walk the stage.
 
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