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(Minneapolis Star Tribune)   Three boys suspended from school and barred from graduation because they were waving a Confederate Flag on school grounds before the school day started   (startribune.com) divider line 777
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8235 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Jun 2008 at 3:01 PM (6 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2008-06-04 04:08:45 PM  
whconner4: jnj_hill - Me? A dick? I am pretty sure that trying to defend the Confederacy and it's battle flag with half-baked excuses is dickish to the extreme.

Sorry. I loath the whole "heritage not hate(tm)" defense. Also pretty ticked at "rural America" for the last 7 years too.

I am just mean that way.


I think flying that flag is ridiculous, too, but I don't really care if someone chooses to wave a flag around.

If you don't like the electoral college, try to get the rules changed. Also, if there had been a better candidate than Kerry, the last four of those years might have been different.
 
2008-06-04 04:09:23 PM  
mediaho: Placenta for Breakfast: So... since my family had their plantation burned to the ground during Sherman's march through Georgia I can ask to have the American flag banned?

Sure, you can ask. Let us know how that works out for you.


And I want our slaves back too! :-)
 
2008-06-04 04:09:24 PM  
UHC2005: Yossarian22: samimgreen: Dang yoss, I had to find another one...

There are blacks that do not feel this way about the battle flag. Look at Mississippi, for example. The battle flag is part of their state flag, it was put on a referendum and the people of the state voted to keep it. I am pretty sure the demographics of Miss are largely black.

Regardless, these threads bring up the most venemous back and forth arguments. To me, its a flag, period. I don't like the hate groups to be seen carrying it any more than I want them carrying old glory. Speaking of which, old glory is the flag that flew over slavery for 88 years before the civil war. Think about that.

I like this one m'self


ah, the Bonny Blue.

history is that, history. Nothing wrong with an appreciation of it. If the kids were out to start trouble then thats one thing but the flag itself is just a flag and the deeper 'meanings' being blabbed about are meanings that the individual chooses to assign to the symbol. To BAN something just elevates it to a higher infamy.
 
2008-06-04 04:09:38 PM  
nodubs: *facepalm*

I swear, the hicks here are just as bad as down south. A good dozen morans from my class (02, Brainerd) did this same stupid shiat. Everyone laughed at them then, and I still laugh at them now.


I went to high school in NW Indiana. We had guys wear Klan robes to school on "hero day". We had a guy who had a Dodge Power Wagon, which he modified into the White Power Wagon. One of the Klan robe guys is in jail for embezzling from a podunk, volunteer fire dept.

Confederate flags are very popular in the North with worthless losers.
 
2008-06-04 04:09:47 PM  
Thank God we're finally doing away with that freedom of expression bullshiat.
 
2008-06-04 04:10:11 PM  
I saw this research on why the people from the South actually are actually justified for using that flag. It really changed my mind on the issue:

Link (new window)
 
2008-06-04 04:10:35 PM  
Three boys white trailer trash suspended from school and barred from graduation because they were waving a Confederate Flag on school grounds before the school day started.
 
2008-06-04 04:10:44 PM  
Placenta for Breakfast: And I want our slaves back too! :-)

Well I guess that would be okay. The hell you're gonna do with that many skeletons is beyond me.
 
2008-06-04 04:10:45 PM  
lucastim: I was speaking generally about the comments on many of the posters here, not the article kids specifically. And either way, if they were suspended for waving a flag wouldn't waving the flag constitute speech? So they can't avail themselves of their 1st amendment right because it is a government building? I guess I just don't understand why such a big deal is made about freedom of speech, if no one is really willing to stand up for it when they disagree with the message.

I don't know that it's so much a matter of agreeing or disagreeing with the message as it is a fact that the confederate flag has come to be a symbol of racism and hatred. And waving one around is antagonistic behavior, designed to incite others to action in response, whether it's in support of, or against, that behavior. Just as yelling "fire" in a crowded movie theater is illegal, this kind of thing is not acceptable.

Hey, if you're a white supremacist, I think it would be fine for them to have a private meeting amongst like-minded people. But when you're on public school grounds, waving around something that, to many, implies hatred of blacks and a desire to return to the days of slavery, it's crossing a line.
 
2008-06-04 04:10:45 PM  
whconner4

FarkinHostile - fine.

Elvisbloom, you are in idiot. FarkinHostile says so.



Ha! For the hundredth time I have.
 
2008-06-04 04:11:16 PM  
Rapmaster2000: Fact Man:

Whoops. I tried to talk back to you, but I ended up posting to that Samsaranran guy.


I got it.

Yea, I think it being on school grounds definitely makes a giant grey area. You have to balance allowing kids their constitutional right to free speech, while that may directly contradict maintaining order in a "parental" atmosphere that's hard enough to control as it is.
 
2008-06-04 04:11:53 PM  
Noam Chimpsky: Thank God we're finally doing away with that freedom of expression bullshiat.

Only the offensive speech you dumbass.
 
2008-06-04 04:12:18 PM  
It's fine if people want to fly the international flag of Redneckdom. Fine if people want to be proud to be a redneck, rube, racist - whatever. Fine if they vote their conscience and show themselves not to have one each election year...and vote for candidates that will act counter to their interests as well- double trouble.

Kerry was a bad candidate. Used too many big words. We should have known how that would play in The South.

Look, Southerners can do as they wish. Seems to be working out well so far. I just lament their existence around election time. They are the scourge of our country in that regard.
 
2008-06-04 04:12:21 PM  
Orgasmatron138: Ditto: what_now: It's the flag of traitors

Those traitors had the balls to stand up to a tyrannical government with overwhelming firepower.

I doubt anyone in this thread has the balls for that, seeing as how there is not a civil war going on in the United States right this second.

That may be the dumbest, most nonsensical argument I've ever seen here on Fark, and I've been reading since the pickle incident.


Which is why people like you pay others to fight your wars. You simply wouldn't understand the concept of standing up for what you believe in, even when the odds are against you.
 
2008-06-04 04:12:33 PM  
This thread reminds me of why the First Amendment is a very necessary part of our Constitution.
 
2008-06-04 04:12:34 PM  
what_now: Waving a confederate flag in Minnesota is like pissing on the graves of the dead Union soldiers from that state.

It should be dealt with like someone who defaces the Vietnam Memorial.


really? is it? When I drive a VW bug am I pissing on the graves of the dead Jews that it took for the Nazis to make that car?

When you drink tea in a coffee shop are you pissing on the memory of all the dead Bostonians who died throwing tea into the harbor?

farking idiot.
 
2008-06-04 04:12:53 PM  
lucastim: I was speaking generally about the comments on many of the posters here, not the article kids specifically. And either way, if they were suspended for waving a flag wouldn't waving the flag constitute speech? So they can't avail themselves of their 1st amendment right because it is a government building? I guess I just don't understand why such a big deal is made about freedom of speech, if no one is really willing to stand up for it when they disagree with the message.

Here is the problem.

People don;t understand what freedom of speech means.

It is the freedom to say or write whatever you want. It doesn't mean you can say it wherever you want though. Would yoit violate my freedom of speech if I couldn't scream outside your window at 4 AM? The same thing applies here. It isn;t just that it is govt property (that is part of it) it is also that that school is there for everyone to learn. These asshats by thier little parade took away from that purpose (I can see the argument that since it was before school hours that it really didn't disrupt anything).

By your bringing up your canadian citizenship and questioning american freedoms I am guessing you are implying the canadian speech laws are superior. Tell me could I go into any canadian govt building and scream my message? Could I block streets wiht likeminded friends and scream a political message? HoYou want to explain the Canadian Human Rights Comission, from my undersatanding if stating facts hurts your feelings then I am guilty of a human rights violation in canada.
 
2008-06-04 04:12:59 PM  
tbn0.google.com

What if they were waving this?
 
2008-06-04 04:13:33 PM  
Samsaran:
You don't get it do you? You cannot make a distinction between the two. You are free or you are not. You cannot say "you have freedom so long as your intent is not racist". We are either free to express our views or we are not. The issue is the same ... and if you deny freedom to one group because their view are unpopular or personally abhorrent to you then freedom dies.

/c'mon ACLU you need to jump on this stat!


They would have been reprimanded much in the same manner if they had been burning the American flag on school property.


The issue isn't whether or not confederate flag is a sign of racism.

The issue is that public school property is NOT true public property, so free speech rights DO NOT apply.


Why do you think we see stories about kids getting suspended from school for shirts and hair styles?
 
2008-06-04 04:13:35 PM  
img170.imageshack.us

This is also the flag of traitors.
But it's OK because the good side won, right?

That being said; these kids were dumbshiats. Everyone knows First Amendment rights end where the schoolyard begins.

They'll get over it
 
2008-06-04 04:13:40 PM  
amazing_live_seamonkeys: Noam Chimpsky: Thank God we're finally doing away with that freedom of expression bullshiat.

Only the offensive speech you dumbass.


Actually, that's the kind of speech that actually needs protecting. Like I said before, the best part of free speech is that it lets everyone around know exactly who the idiots are.
 
2008-06-04 04:13:44 PM  
Duke_leto_Atredes: RIP Free Speach

fun while it lasted, time to goose step now

Heil Obama


Phew! I am so glad it was only one. If all the speaches had died we might have a problem. Imagine if we didn't have Free Speech anymore either!!! We really dodged a bullet.
 
2008-06-04 04:14:35 PM  
mediaho: amazing_live_seamonkeys: Noam Chimpsky: Thank God we're finally doing away with that freedom of expression bullshiat.

Only the offensive speech you dumbass.

Actually, that's the kind of speech that actually needs protecting. Like I said before, the best part of free speech is that it lets everyone around know exactly who the idiots are.


Not if it makes me feel bad. That speech should be banned banned banned!!!1!
 
2008-06-04 04:14:47 PM  
amazing_live_seamonkeys: Only the offensive speech you dumbass.

Exactly. The First Amendment was meant to protect only speech that we all like.
 
2008-06-04 04:14:51 PM  
Placenta for Breakfast: So... since my family had their plantation burned to the ground during Sherman's march through Georgia I can ask to have the American flag banned?

/Yes, we had a plantation, slaves, and all.


You'll get over it.

You're lucky you dont have to give out 40 acres and a mule to anyone.
 
2008-06-04 04:15:39 PM  
tweekster: You could always use the low education (handed-down knowledge) and poverty rates (laid back mentality)

Although the south is hardworking (violent crime rates).


Well, now that you've gone out of your way to offend me (woohoo... poke the dumb southerner with a stick!), I do see a problem with those maps.

I'd rather see the 'violent crimes' distribution map colored on a county-by-county basis, instead of painting all the southern states red, and calling it 'by region.'

You'd find the violent crimes nationwide concentrated in the metro areas. Miami, Atlanta, Dallas, Detroit.

You expect me to look at that map and think that rural Tennessee and Georgia are more violent than Detroit or New York? Pshaw.
 
2008-06-04 04:15:53 PM  
elvisbloom: I saw this research on why the people from the South actually are actually justified for using that flag. It really changed my mind on the issue:

Link (new window)


It figures from your assholeness the entire thread that you would be the type to gather 'research' from watching southpark.

/You ARE 12 years old.
 
2008-06-04 04:15:54 PM  
www.coachwyatt.com

approves.
 
2008-06-04 04:16:01 PM  
All this talk of the Stars and Bars and no one has posted a picture of it? The Rebel Flag used by racist groups today was the Confederate Naval Jack.

i33.photobucket.com

This is the Stars and Bars, used until 1863.
 
2008-06-04 04:16:06 PM  
amazing_live_seamonkeys: Not if it makes me feel bad. That speech should be banned banned banned!!!1!

Ah. I see what you did there.
 
2008-06-04 04:16:11 PM  
Rapmaster2000: Confederate flags are very popular in the North with worthless losers.

I have lived in the south and when I see a confederate flag, I think he is probably racist. When I see them in NJ I know they are racist.
 
2008-06-04 04:16:14 PM  
The real question is why should kids have the right to free speech? Until they are 18 or pay property tax they should just STFU

//Get off lawn
 
2008-06-04 04:17:07 PM  
amazing_live_seamonkeys: Only the offensive speech you dumbass.

Offensive as defined by our illustrious leader, President for Life and Grand Poobah and Fark Dictator amazing_live_seamonkeys:!

All hail the leader!
 
2008-06-04 04:17:46 PM  
mmm... pancake: amazing_live_seamonkeys: Only the offensive speech you dumbass.

Exactly. The First Amendment was meant to protect only speech that we all like.


Nobody had their First Ammendment rights infringed in this article.

/you'll get over it
 
2008-06-04 04:17:56 PM  
Samsaran: amazing_live_seamonkeys: Only the offensive speech you dumbass.

Offensive as defined by our illustrious leader, President for Life and Grand Poobah and Fark Dictator amazing_live_seamonkeys:!

All hail the leader!


You shall be spared.
 
2008-06-04 04:17:57 PM  
Dear lord, people are pathetic.

The Civil War was in the 1800s. Get over it.

Yes, it was about slavery. Yes, it was about other stuff, too.

Yes there are retarded people in the south. Yes, there are retarded people in the north, too.

Southern pride? Northern pride? If you have either, you are absolutely farking pathetic.
 
2008-06-04 04:18:08 PM  
Broadside: This is also the flag of traitors.
But it's OK because the good side won, right?


Actually, yes, that's exactly right. Or are we not supposed to make any sort of judgement on whether rebellions are "good" or not?
 
2008-06-04 04:18:29 PM  
I, too, used to be an ignorant asshole and get offended whenever someone waved the Confederate flag. Now that i've actually read the history behind it, I realize it's a source of culture, although some people use it as a source of hate. It's kind of like outlawing cars because people have been hit by them in the past...we shouldn't hide something from our past just because it's inconvenient.

But then again, as someone mentioned earlier, free speech doesn't apply to politically incorrect topics.
 
2008-06-04 04:18:43 PM  
the_rev No likey the maps?

Well, find us a map or two showing the South excelling in some positive area instead of straight kicking arsh in all manners of FAIL.

We will wait whilst you look.
 
2008-06-04 04:19:26 PM  
Samsaran: All hail the leader!

It took me a second but his use of "dumbass" directly after saying "offensive speech should be banned" is pretty clever.
 
2008-06-04 04:20:03 PM  
wmoonfox: Orgasmatron138: Ditto: what_now: It's the flag of traitors

Those traitors had the balls to stand up to a tyrannical government with overwhelming firepower.

I doubt anyone in this thread has the balls for that, seeing as how there is not a civil war going on in the United States right this second.

That may be the dumbest, most nonsensical argument I've ever seen here on Fark, and I've been reading since the pickle incident.

Which is why people like you pay others to fight your wars. You simply wouldn't understand the concept of standing up for what you believe in, even when the odds are against you.


Do you celebrate 9/11 because the Muslim extremists stood up for what they believed in, even when the odds were against them?

I don't have to respect people standing up for what they believe in when what they believe in is slavery.

Plus, what you are saying has nothing to do with anything I said. It was completely irrelevant and I actually feel like I'm trying to explain physics to a retarded 5 year old.
 
2008-06-04 04:20:05 PM  
tonesskin: The Civil War was in the 1800s. Get over it.

Nice, you got it narrowed down to a century. You must be a public school graduate.

/just kidding tonesskin: please don't kill me
 
2008-06-04 04:20:16 PM  
tonesskin: Southern pride? Northern pride? If you have either, you are absolutely farking pathetic.

For some reason if you call it Octoberfest it is just fine, you call it German pride and everyone gets all bent out of shape.
 
2008-06-04 04:20:23 PM  
liam76: Rapmaster2000: Confederate flags are very popular in the North with worthless losers.

I have lived in the south and when I see a confederate flag, I think he is probably racist. When I see them in NJ I know they are racist.


I've lived in Atlanta for 8 years and when I see it down here I make a judgement call based on behavior. Could be racist, could not be.

When I see it up North, I know exactly what I'm looking at. Sometimes Northern flag wavers will say it's because "they're a rebel" but if you give them a few seconds you'll hear the racism.
 
2008-06-04 04:21:15 PM  
Free speech isn't very free when you get to pick and choose what it is. If these pathetic scum-sucking losers want to waive the traitor's flag, we should respect their right to do so. Hell if you want to waive this flag:

newcentrist.files.wordpress.com

Be my guest. The Constitution guarantees us the right to free speech. The Constitution does not guarantee us the right to not be offended. But hold on a minute, it's not that simple...

what_now: On school grounds? Please google "Bong Hits for Jesus".

First amendment rights on school property are severely curtailed.


The main problem in the Morse v. Frederick case was that the speech in question was seen as advocating drug use. You're thinking about in loco parentis, which is bullshiat.

Speaking of Bullshiat, anyone here who gives a damn about free speech should watch the episode of Penn and Teller's Bullshiat where they cover speech codes and political correctness in American schools.
 
2008-06-04 04:21:41 PM  
what_now: Waving a confederate flag in Minnesota is like pissing on the graves of the dead Union soldiers from that state.

It should be dealt with like someone who defaces the Vietnam Memorial.


Seriously, sparky1013: what_now: Waving a confederate flag in Minnesota is like pissing on the graves of the dead Union soldiers from that state.

It should be dealt with like someone who defaces the Vietnam Memorial.

i doubt minnesota was a state back then...


Yes, Minnesota was a state. They were also one of the first states to commit troops to the civil war, in fact.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1st_Minnesota_Volunteer_Infantry
 
2008-06-04 04:22:02 PM  
sab6300: The real question is why should kids have the right to free speech? Until they are 18 or pay property tax they should just STFU

//Get off lawn


can we apply this to illegals as well?

/seriously
//please?
 
2008-06-04 04:22:03 PM  
HotWingConspiracy:
Huh? You're free to call people assholes, but the punishment might be a smack to the mouth illegal assault from a criminal. You're still free though. Say what you want.

FTFY
 
2008-06-04 04:22:22 PM  
Rapmaster2000: When I see it up North, I know exactly what I'm looking at. Sometimes Northern flag wavers will say it's because "they're a rebel" but if you give them a few seconds you'll hear the racism.

There is nothing funnier than confederate flags in NORTHERN FARKIN' CALIFORNIA.

/We also have Civil War reenactments
 
2008-06-04 04:22:36 PM  
this thread is fun to read for all the kids regurgitating the rhetoric of their liberal arts college professors. Tell us again, why freedom of expression doesn't cover things that make other people feel bad? because soccer mommy said so? or because Professor Berkenstock said so?
 
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