Do you have adblock enabled?
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Some Guy)   MLB promotes Ken Griffey's pursuit of 600 HR's by saying only five men have reached that mark before, somehow fail to mention two guys named B*nds and S*sa   (newengland.comcastsportsnet.com) divider line 38
    More: Interesting  
•       •       •

1489 clicks; posted to Sports » on 04 Jun 2008 at 12:47 PM (6 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



38 Comments   (+0 »)
   

Archived thread
 
2008-06-04 10:38:53 AM  
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Griffey a part of that steroid generation? Not implicating him in anything, but if they're going to whitewash two other players from his era, the juicing era, couldn't Griffey get thrown into the boat as well at some point? I'm sure he's clean, but it seems like MLB is trying to strike those years from memory and history.
 
2008-06-04 11:21:50 AM  
Griffey has always been a natural homerun hitter and has always had the same style and swing. If he hadn't caught the injury bug back in 2001 he would have clobbered HR records. He was hitting 40-50+ after 4 years in the Majors. Bonds was 30-40 for 14 years and then went from 34 to 49 to 73 in three years.
www.constructiveanarchy.com

/Reds need to trade him after #600
//Jay Bruce is the new hotness
 
2008-06-04 11:58:51 AM  
Sorry MLB...no take-backsies
 
2008-06-04 12:06:57 PM  
wow, what a non story
 
2008-06-04 12:49:01 PM  
Don't forget McG**re
 
2008-06-04 12:54:44 PM  
Crewmannumber6: Don't forget McG**re

He only hit 583, so I don't see why they would include him in celebration of 600...

I could see ignoring Sosa, as he is only in 5th place on the all time HR list and was the latest to break 600. But to ignore Bonds, the all time leader... that is just silly.
 
2008-06-04 12:55:37 PM  
If only Bud Selig had the balls to officially wipe the steroid years from Bonds/McGwire/Sosa's career statistics...
 
2008-06-04 12:58:34 PM  
flixter: Griffey has always been a natural homerun hitter and has always had the same style and swing. If he hadn't caught the injury bug back in 2001 he would have clobbered HR records. He was hitting 40-50+ after 4 years in the Majors. Bonds was 30-40 for 14 years and then went from 34 to 49 to 73 in three years.


/Reds need to trade him after #600
//Jay Bruce is the new hotness


I don't we can assume anyone is clean at this point. Griffey hit 17, 22, 22, 27 home runs in his first 4 years, then hits 45 in 1993. That's in the heart of the steroid era, so I don't think it would be a stretch to think that his stats may be enhanced, as well.

It seems pretty arrogant for baseball to assume that everything is back to normal, and there was just that one little era that was a bit of an aberration. Every era in baseball is tainted by something. And I'm sure we'll find out ten years from now that this era was tainted because of _________.
 
2008-06-04 01:03:57 PM  
Oh snap!
 
2008-06-04 01:08:53 PM  
BobNesta420: I don't we can assume anyone is clean at this point. Griffey hit 17, 22, 22, 27 home runs in his first 4 years, then hits 45 in 1993. That's in the heart of the steroid era, so I don't think it would be a stretch to think that his stats may be enhanced, as well.

You said it yourself, it was his FIRST four years. Bonds, McGwire and Sosa did in in what should have been the twilight of thier careers.

Not to mention, you need to remember that Griffey played for the Seattle Mariners, starting in 1989.

Back then, The Mariners would have considered adding Bill the Beerman to its lineup for an improvement, let alone a phenom like Junior.

Not to mention the marketing gimmick of having Junior play with his dad in the lineup.
 
2008-06-04 01:10:55 PM  
Good god, just 'legalize' the juice so we can put this shiat to bed once and for all. Besides, I want to see what a 750-foot home run looks like anyways.

/Go Jr.!
//hit #600 and high-tail it back to Seattle
///least give us a reason to come out to watch our otherwise dead-to-the-neck-up team
 
2008-06-04 01:17:20 PM  
The three they mentioned in the ad (Mays, Ruth, Aaron) are all HoF'ers with that larger-than-life mystique surrounding their names and accomplishments. While Bonds and Sosa have hit as many homers, they're names don't have the same connotation as the others'. It's just good marketing, not an attempt to re-write history.
 
2008-06-04 01:18:48 PM  
*their, dammit.
 
2008-06-04 01:21:23 PM  
LessO2: BobNesta420: I don't we can assume anyone is clean at this point. Griffey hit 17, 22, 22, 27 home runs in his first 4 years, then hits 45 in 1993. That's in the heart of the steroid era, so I don't think it would be a stretch to think that his stats may be enhanced, as well.

You said it yourself, it was his FIRST four years. Bonds, McGwire and Sosa did in in what should have been the twilight of thier careers.


Right. But McGwire also hit 49 home runs in his rookie year. But hell, given his associations, maybe he was juicing since day 1. That's the difficulty with this era. We don't really know for sure who was doing what when. So, it's kind of silly for MLB to gloss over the achievements of Bonds, Sosa, and McGwire, as if they're the only ones. And as long as they keep those names off the history books, then the slate is clean. I just think that nobody really knows exactly how pervasive steroids may have been (or may still be)and MLB's trying to sweep it under the rug to make it go away.
 
2008-06-04 01:29:45 PM  
LessO2: BobNesta420: I don't we can assume anyone is clean at this point. Griffey hit 17, 22, 22, 27 home runs in his first 4 years, then hits 45 in 1993. That's in the heart of the steroid era, so I don't think it would be a stretch to think that his stats may be enhanced, as well.

You said it yourself, it was his FIRST four years. Bonds, McGwire and Sosa did in in what should have been the twilight of thier careers.

Not to mention, you need to remember that Griffey played for the Seattle Mariners, starting in 1989.


More importantly, he was 19-22 when he hit those numbers. Bonds and Sosa make similar jumps in HR totals around 23 or 24 (as is expected), but then make another jump later in their careers (which is abnormal).

Every scout in baseball knew that Griffey was going to be good. He has always had one of the best swings in baseball. He is bigger now, yes, but never had a freakish gain in muscle mass. There is no indication that Griffey ever touched PEDs. In fact, as he clearly went up against pitchers using (and pitchers actually gained more from PEDs then hitters), he was probably hurt by playing in the era he did. To accuse someone of using steriods merely because they were successful while others were using shows no logical reasoning at all.
 
2008-06-04 01:37:21 PM  
bacongood: In fact, as he clearly went up against pitchers using (and pitchers actually gained more from PEDs then hitters), he was probably hurt by playing in the era he did. To accuse someone of using steriods merely because they were successful while others were using shows no logical reasoning at all.

That's a good point. And I don't mean to imply that I think Griffey was using PEDs just because he was good. I don't really have an opinion one way or another. My point is that we just don't know who was doing it, including pitchers, as you pointed out. So, we don't know how much that (the number of pitchers using PEDs) impacted the stats. So, while some hitters were showing inflated HR totals, maybe others were showing deflated totals because of the enhanced pitching that they were facing.

I just don't see any way to alter the record books with any certainty.
 
2008-06-04 01:41:59 PM  
bacongood

More importantly, he was 19-22 when he hit those numbers. Bonds and Sosa make similar jumps in HR totals around 23 or 24 (as is expected), but then make another jump later in their careers (which is abnormal).

So are you suggesting Bonds only started on steroids around 2000 when his HR hitting jumps up? If so that makes him sound more like someone that decided pretty much everyone else had been doing it for years, so he should have that same edge that almost everyone else is taking advantage of.
 
2008-06-04 01:55:15 PM  
PowerSlacker: If only Bud Selig had the balls to officially wipe the steroid years from Bonds/McGwire/Sosa's career statistics...

If only Bud Selig had the balls to put in a decent drug testing policy before any of this became an issue.
 
2008-06-04 02:22:46 PM  
xria: bacongood

So are you suggesting Bonds only started on steroids around 2000 when his HR hitting jumps up? If so that makes him sound more like someone that decided pretty much everyone else had been doing it for years, so he should have that same edge that almost everyone else is taking advantage of.


Isn't that what they suggested in Game of Shadows?
 
2008-06-04 02:27:32 PM  
Though nothing has been proven with regards to McGwire and Sosa, I do understand that no one will believe what they did was natural. Still, it is unforgivable that Selig gets to sit on his golden throne while McGwire and Sosa are shunned. They saved the game from the owners and their mistakes in 98 and should be first ballot Hall of Famers for that alone - not to mention their numbers.
 
2008-06-04 02:35:23 PM  
That's because Griffey is the real deal & doesn't need the juice to be a great hitter. His mechanics are great.
 
2008-06-04 02:38:30 PM  
Who?

Bunds and Sesa?
 
2008-06-04 02:40:47 PM  
LessO2: Bonds, McGwire and Sosa did in in what should have been the twilight of thier careers.

Sosa should have been in the twilight of his career at age 29?
 
2008-06-04 03:08:36 PM  
CatfoodSpork: xria: bacongood

So are you suggesting Bonds only started on steroids around 2000 when his HR hitting jumps up? If so that makes him sound more like someone that decided pretty much everyone else had been doing it for years, so he should have that same edge that almost everyone else is taking advantage of.

Isn't that what they suggested in Game of Shadows?


2000 is when he started working with Anderson of BALCO. I have not (and will not) read Game of Shadows, so I don't know if he started before that.

Personally, I don't believe in trying to parse out who did what when. Some bad shiat happened, baseball needs to take steps to correct it, such as drug testing and harsher penalties. Baseball shouldn't try to sweeep any facts under the rug, but they should let all the records stand. If someone doesn't want to recognize Bonds as the Homerun King, that's their choice. It doesn't change the number of times he hit a homerun though.
 
2008-06-04 03:30:20 PM  
BobNesta420: Griffey hit 17, 22, 22, 27 home runs in his first 4 years, then hits 45 in 1993.

And Griffey started playing in the Majors when he was 19, which is younger than almost anyone in the sport. Players often don't often develop (physically and mentally) until their early/mid twenties.
Also, Griffey missed 20 games in the season where he hit 27 home runs (of course, his at-bats increased by a few from the year before... but I can't tell you if injury may have held him back a bit in that season, since I don't honestly remember why he was out for that many games). Home run totals (when you're 19-22 years old) of 17 (missed 35 games), 22, 22 (missed a handful of games in each of those seasons), 27 (missed 20 games) isn't out of the norm. Then, at 23, he improved (and one can't help but wonder if he got a bit of a boost that season from the team/atmosphere, which was improved when the Mariners hired Lou, Randy became great, and the Mariners and started, you know, looking like a baseball franchise).
After all, look at some real stats that suggest power (that are averaged out per at bat)... Griffey's slugging percentage continued to improve at roughly 40 to 60 points per season in these years (save the season where he missed 20 games... he only improved a few points, and in the next year he made up for it). This happened until he was about 24, then it peaked and started to ever slowly decline (minus his injury year in '95, where the injury did have an impact on his play).
 
2008-06-04 04:12:16 PM  
B*nds and S*sa can DIAF.
 
2008-06-04 04:23:40 PM  
bacongood: Crewmannumber6: Don't forget McG**re

He only hit 583, so I don't see why they would include him in celebration of 600...

I could see ignoring Sosa, as he is only in 5th place on the all time HR list and was the latest to break 600. But to ignore Bonds, the all time leader... that is just silly.


Oops. Didn't look it up because I don't care that much.
 
2008-06-04 04:30:09 PM  
bouchdogg: B*nds and S*sa can DIAF.

Don't you mean D*AF?
 
2008-06-04 04:49:20 PM  
I had a good laugh at the MLB.tv ads they run.

For Manny's 500 they listed a bunch of players who had also done this, leaving out sosa, bonds, mcquire, and then the same treatment for griffey's 600.

I had no problem with either ad.
 
2008-06-04 04:52:07 PM  
Junior was never juiced. I can say this because the man spent more time on the DL than actually playing, and if he was taking HGH during that time... well, he was doing it wrong.
 
2008-06-04 05:26:40 PM  
Steroids are so over rated. Why don't they take away all of the minor league players? Don't forget college players. And high school players that never even played college ball. Never mind football, basketball, etc.

--Would be at summer football practice or in the college world series had I juiced like ~80% high school athletes. I like my health and weiner as is
 
2008-06-04 06:22:45 PM  
I remember reading an early Junior biography in the early 90's and they mentioned that he'd sometimes travel with his father during summers and at the age of 14 he'd take batting practice and bomb home runs in Major League stadiums.

He's been a phenomenon since he was a wee lad.
 
2008-06-04 06:43:14 PM  
LessO2: You said it yourself, it was his FIRST four years. Bonds, McGwire and Sosa did in in what should have been the twilight of thier careers.

Um...Sosa was 29 when he hit 66.

He was also progressively getting better the previous years. Remember he did the 30-30 TWICE and in the 1997 he reached 35 HRs before his season ending injury. He would have clocked around 45-50 in that year. His 1998 season would have displayed similar numbers to that estimate if he hadn't got ultra mega white hot in June hitting 20 HRs in a month.

He was also consistent by hitting 60 3 times (the only player to do so) and 50 4 consecutive times (also the only athlete to do it and would have been 5 but he just to came shy of 50 by hitting 49 in 2002). He also didn't have an injury prone career and IIRC was only placed on the DL 4 times during his career.

He's not a perfect human being, he may have used steroids, you may not like him, especially fairweather bandwagoner stupid Cubs fans who I hope spends the rest of their miserable lives watching their team FAIL, Sosa was the best player on your team and made you relevant by having an excellent career there and leading them for the playoffs for the first time in years, but he, Samuel Sosa, definitely had talent to play the game of baseball.

/Throw yourselves off a cliff, haters
 
2008-06-04 06:57:06 PM  
bacongood: CatfoodSpork: xria: bacongood

So are you suggesting Bonds only started on steroids around 2000 when his HR hitting jumps up? If so that makes him sound more like someone that decided pretty much everyone else had been doing it for years, so he should have that same edge that almost everyone else is taking advantage of.

Isn't that what they suggested in Game of Shadows?

2000 is when he started working with Anderson of BALCO. I have not (and will not) read Game of Shadows, so I don't know if he started before that.

Personally, I don't believe in trying to parse out who did what when. Some bad shiat happened, baseball needs to take steps to correct it, such as drug testing and harsher penalties. Baseball shouldn't try to sweeep any facts under the rug, but they should let all the records stand. If someone doesn't want to recognize Bonds as the Homerun King, that's their choice. It doesn't change the number of times he hit a homerun though.


I believe what they argued was a more personality argument - that he was very very pissed on a personal level that he was one of (if not the) best hitters in MLB, and then he got basically ignored because a few guys started massively roiding up and no-one seemed to care at all (i.e., McGwire with even the Andro thing back then), so he decided "screw it, if these are the rules then I'm going to crush everyone under these rules too"
 
2008-06-04 07:11:57 PM  
Chastain86: Junior was never juiced. I can say this because the man spent more time on the DL than actually playing, and if he was taking HGH during that time... well, he was doing it wrong.

Look at professional wrestlers. Quite a few injuries can simply come from using steroids.
 
2008-06-05 04:18:29 AM  
It was one thing for Bonds to use steroids or HGH, but it was another to go out there and smugly break Hank Aarons' record. He besmirched the game for one and all, and did it while behaving like a complete douchebag. Just try and find a teammate of his that had anything good to say about him.

/get a job, loser
 
2008-06-05 09:50:21 AM  
JDAT: That's because Griffey is the real deal & doesn't need the juice to be a great hitter. His mechanics are great.

Bonds' mechanics are better
 
2008-06-05 04:50:42 PM  
enrico.blogs.com
 
Displayed 38 of 38 comments



This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
Advertisement
On Twitter





In Other Media


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report