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(Minneapolis Star Tribune)   An entire town tells Google to get off its lawn   (startribune.com) divider line 162
    More: Stupid  
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29810 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 Jun 2008 at 7:02 AM (6 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2008-06-02 09:58:16 AM  
Reminds me of a story a few years ago. A private community sued a map maker for not including it on map... because of "damages" due to people being unable to find their homes (deliveries etc.) and lowered the value of their homes.

IIRC the map maker one since there's no law requiring them to include anyone/anything on their product.
 
2008-06-02 09:59:21 AM  
Typhoid: They trespassed. If they had tried to get permission, that would be one thing. They do not have the right to trespass on private property to take pictures and put them on the internet.

GOOGLE is the one who FAILS here.

/and ArcadianRefugee, not go outside much? That sign is more than adequate. Just because the pic is taken at a weird angle is no excuse for not comparing is to the objects around it to estimate size.


looks like we found a home-owner.
I will be swinging through North Oaks this evening (4am) mmkay?
 
2008-06-02 10:01:31 AM  
Good Call Im_naked_right_now with the microsoft map that is Hilarious, in their ever growing efforts to have privacy their still visible elsewhere, Yeah their rich and yeah they want privacy and their probably going to get it but if i was that freakin rich I would want my house on google maps. I would have my name on the roof so you could know who the hell lived there.
 
2008-06-02 10:01:57 AM  
You know, in all the Google Street View threads I've read, I don't think anyone's asked the most important question: HOW do I get this job? All you have to do is drive around, listening to music, letting the cameras record automatically, chain smoking (if you're a smoker) and talking on the mobile phone. (STFU control freaks - cellular phones are only as distracting as passengers, and I don't see anyone calling for passenger bans) I'm sure it doesn't pay well, but I have simple needs, and absolute bliss at work would be worth a great deal of unearned money.
 
2008-06-02 10:06:37 AM  
minoridiot: I've never found Google's street view to be all that useful. I don't know why, but I find it hard to recognize streets and landmarks, even in my ownneighborhood.

Really? I find it super useful when I need to go somewhere... Mainly in confirming I know where I'm going, and to find some particular landmarks. Like whether the shop I'm going to is in the shopping center with the McDonald's and the post office, or the one a bit down the street with the Taco Bell... Or a couple weeks ago I had an appointment and was able to find the building on street view, see which side of the street it was on, identified a landmark of a shopping center with bright green awnings in front of it... even was able to confirm the number on the side of the building and see what the building was called. Extremely useful if you're going somewhere you haven't been before, or recently.
 
2008-06-02 10:08:23 AM  
Just let em be rich, rich people will always want privacy and frankly I want them to have it. I wish celebrities lives were a little more freakin private!

/I'm poor
//Dont care what rich people do.
 
2008-06-02 10:10:07 AM  
An entire town tells Google to get off its lawn

Google is useless. My town's imagery is 7+ years out of date. Entire subdivisions and roads are missing.
 
2008-06-02 10:10:42 AM  
I OWN STUFF. THEREFORE, I HAVE THE RIGHT TO CONTROL REALITY.
 
2008-06-02 10:11:22 AM  
Even before I clicked the link, when I saw the story was from the Strib, I just assumed that they were talking about North Oaks.

Walter Mondale lived there briefly after he left office as VP, but moved out after a few years because he thought the place was too snobby. How's that for elitist.
 
2008-06-02 10:12:03 AM  
Those are some big houses and a lot of land. I know where I'm headed with my armed posse when the apocalypse hits.
 
2008-06-02 10:14:11 AM  
The Pentagon banned Google Maps from taking any images of military facilities

Yeah? On Google Earth I can easily see where my brother's office is in the Pentagon, as well as the spot where he parks his motorcycle. Just as I could clearly see his base in Iraq when he was there.

WTF are they hiding?
 
2008-06-02 10:16:03 AM  
0Icky0: Yeah? On Google Earth I can easily see where my brother's office is in the Pentagon, as well as the spot where he parks his motorcycle. Just as I could clearly see his base in Iraq when he was there.

I assume they meant the more secret installations. R&D facilities, secret prisons, that kind of thing.
 
2008-06-02 10:17:05 AM  
Fark those of the Hoity Toity persuasion.

If they want to cover their yards and roads so they can't be seen from above, so be it. As it is, what would they also like to do? Ban people from flying over their neighborhood too?
 
2008-06-02 10:18:08 AM  
Mercutio74: I assume they meant the more secret installations. R&D facilities, secret prisons, that kind of thing.

They got to learn that the best way to hid stuff is in plain sight.
 
2008-06-02 10:18:50 AM  
If the government made google keep secret stuff off of google maps then they would have to disclose the "secret" location to google so it wouldn't be photographed by accident. This means that google people still know where "not" to photograph.

/might wander around alone anyway
//what the hell is the government hiding?
 
2008-06-02 10:20:46 AM  
0Icky0: Mercutio74: I assume they meant the more secret installations. R&D facilities, secret prisons, that kind of thing.

They got to learn that the best way to hid stuff is in plain sight.


Lol... there's a thread about "prison ships" on the main page. Looks like they've beaten you to it.
 
2008-06-02 10:42:47 AM  
Which FOQNE are they part of?
 
2008-06-02 10:48:53 AM  
I suppose that they petitioned the FAA to revoke flying rights for anybody to go over their entire land too? What about people on the ISS looking at their land with a telescope? Is that against the law? Pretty damn silly if you ask me. I have no idea why a people in this day of age would go to such lengths.
 
2008-06-02 10:52:08 AM  
Oh, yeah, and how exactly did Google trespass? All they did was capture the light coming from their land. They didn't go anywhere near their land.
 
2008-06-02 10:53:24 AM  
Why is this stupid, exactly? People are always biatching about the evil gubmint putting up cameras or even just taking pictures of things. What makes a private entity so much better?

In fact, information on Google or other corporate sources is a whole lot more likely to be abused than information collected by the government. The government really doesn't give an oink about you, and it doesn't make the information it collects available to someone who might. On the other hand, anyone can access Google, including people who don't like you or would like to avail themselves of your stuff.

Beyond that, it's literally their town, since they own the streets. So gtfo and stfu.
 
2008-06-02 11:03:01 AM  
The key question is does the public have a "right of access" - this distinction is why you can still be arrested for DUI in a privately owned parking lot absent a complaint by the owner.

I suspect Google will win this one, if they care to fight it. Otherwise they can just replace the images with a pirate map and a big "here be assholes" area.
 
2008-06-02 11:05:10 AM  
I don't care if Google comes on through... Just keep the rednecks out!

/North Oaks Resident
 
2008-06-02 11:08:25 AM  
Who cares if these people don't want their pictures up on Google Maps Street View? Most people on Fark are never going to be visiting any of these people, so you aren't gonna need directions. Even if you do, they're still on the map--you just can't look at a picture of their houses before you drive over there.

Google took the images down right away and without a fuss. I just don't see what the big deal is or how it's anybody's business except these property owners and Google.
 
2008-06-02 11:09:12 AM  
yagottabefarkinkiddinme: An entire town tells Google to get off its lawn

Google is useless. My town's imagery is 7+ years out of date. Entire subdivisions and roads are missing.


Uhh, Google doesn't do most of the aerial/satellite photos themselves, they just use the publicly-available GIS imaging databases produced by most states and localities (they do some, in very dense, interesting areas, but you'll notice watermarks and copyrights on most of those images).

So, it the data is out-of-date, it's because your local government is lazy.

It also pisses me off that the button is labeled "Satellite", when it is most definitely NOT satellite imagery in many cases. I can see the shadow of my 1" diameter rooftoop weather station pole on Google. You telling me Google has access to better satellite images than the guvmint?

The MassGIS copyrights are also a dead giveaway....
 
2008-06-02 11:11:28 AM  
AndreMA:

Why are the residents assholes? If the new hotness was Google Cribs would you open your doors up wide for the cameras? Maybe...and that's your right. But I wouldn't, and that doesn't make me an asshole.

/notrich
//wish i had a private road and some private property
 
2008-06-02 11:12:49 AM  
These pictures are (ours) you hear?
 
2008-06-02 11:13:57 AM  
Late to the party...

I used to play, ref and coach soccer in North Oaks. They are a bunch of rich, "I can do whatever I want whenever I want" snobs. Went to school with them.

So I'm getting a kick out of these replies.
 
2008-06-02 11:15:20 AM  
Google has a policy about this, you ask they take it out, they don't fight them in court, it isn't worth it. This stuff is offered as a service, it seems here the public doesn't have any right of access as there is a posted sign with no trespassing in a gated community.

So, the main question is who cares. This is just another article pointing that google did something some people didn't like. Those people sent a letter asking for the info to be removed, and google having a policy in place, followed their internal policy and removed the information without further complications.

No waste of the courts time or additional tax payers money.
 
2008-06-02 11:20:09 AM  
untaken_name: AndreMA:

Why are the residents assholes? If the new hotness was Google Cribs would you open your doors up wide for the cameras? Maybe...and that's your right. But I wouldn't, and that doesn't make me an asshole.


This whole thread reeks of class envy. The people in this town or subdivision or whatever you want to call it are obviously well off. So these people, whom none of these farkers know or have ever heard of until today, are "assholes" because they have something the farkers don't.
 
2008-06-02 11:34:33 AM  
North Oaks belongs to the Vadnais Lakes Watershed Management Organization, which monitors development and erosion in their area. They have been unable to get anyone to accept an appointment to this board because the person who accepts would have to file an economic interest disclosure form (and detail where they get their money from). Just goes to show you - Rich people don't want you poking your nose around their money.
 
2008-06-02 11:34:59 AM  
Phaid:

Ok. Makes sense. TYVM.
 
2008-06-02 11:38:45 AM  
Phaid: untaken_name: AndreMA:

Why are the residents assholes? If the new hotness was Google Cribs would you open your doors up wide for the cameras? Maybe...and that's your right. But I wouldn't, and that doesn't make me an asshole.

This whole thread reeks of class envy. The people in this town or subdivision or whatever you want to call it are obviously well off. So these people, whom none of these farkers know or have ever heard of until today, are "assholes" because they have something the farkers don't.


I guess I draw the line at just how "private" the roads are. Does the local police force patrol and enforce traffic laws on them, or is there a private security force? How about fire protection? Road maintenance? (In colder climates) snowplowing? Do they receive any Federal funding intended for municipalities?

Is the maintainer of the roads truly a private entity, or a de facto government agency?
 
2008-06-02 11:41:15 AM  
untaken_name: AndreMA:

Why are the residents assholes? If the new hotness was Google Cribs would you open your doors up wide for the cameras? Maybe...and that's your right. But I wouldn't, and that doesn't make me an asshole.

/notrich
//wish i had a private road and some private property


I didn't mean to imply that the residents (individually) were assholes... just that their quasi-government was.
 
2008-06-02 11:45:14 AM  
Wait until Sunfish Lake, Minnesota finds out about this....
 
2008-06-02 11:49:25 AM  
ShereKhan: North Oaks belongs to the Vadnais Lakes Watershed Management Organization, which monitors development and erosion in their area. They have been unable to get anyone to accept an appointment to this board because the person who accepts would have to file an economic interest disclosure form (and detail where they get their money from). Just goes to show you - Rich people don't want you poking your nose around their money.

So, what is your full name and address, where do you work, and how much did you make last year? Please identify all sources of income.
 
2008-06-02 11:54:37 AM  
I live about a mile away and whenever I was dropping my children off at their friends in North Oaks, I always felt I was breaking some law.
 
2008-06-02 11:59:29 AM  
baraqel: I don't care if Google comes on through... Just keep the rednecks out!

/North Oaks Resident


"Redneck" is not a term of endearment so, like the ever protected "N" word, don't farking use it.
 
2008-06-02 12:01:24 PM  
Just one more example of a bunch of people who fail at understanding the power of teh interwebs. Sorry, people, you can't control it. It's way past time to accept the inevitable change that the tubes have brough to our world. I hope Google just laughs at them.
 
2008-06-02 12:04:09 PM  
AndreMA: The key question is does the public have a "right of access" - this distinction is why you can still be arrested for DUI in a privately owned parking lot absent a complaint by the owner.

Such an arrest would depend on Right of Access being granted to the police, who would then (and only then) be allowed on the private property. RoA must be granted; it is not assumed. However, if the police saw the drunk weaving on the street, they could follow him into the private lot as a legitimate pursuit.

/building owner
 
2008-06-02 12:06:06 PM  
AndreMA:
Is the maintainer of the roads truly a private entity, or a de facto government agency?

I don't know about this place but, the private road I live on has no state maintenance.
No municipality plowing in the winter, only the homeowners filling the potholes.

The private road was one of the main reasons I bought the place.

Keep Out
Beware of Dog
 
2008-06-02 12:06:16 PM  
yagottabefarkinkiddinme: An entire town tells Google to get off its lawn

Google is useless. My town's imagery is 7+ years out of date. Entire subdivisions and roads are missing.


We'll call my street Something Lane. Until not quite a year ago, when I'd type in my address, it would tell me it doesn't exist and ask, "Do you mean Something Road?" So, I'd click on that. It then told me Something Road didn't exist either. Around September of last year, it labelled my street, incorrectly, as Something Road, but it was changed to Lane not long after that.
 
2008-06-02 12:07:41 PM  
PaceyWhitter: Trespassing laws prevent someone from entering another person's land or property without permission of the owner. Therefore if they had caught Google's vans when they were on the private roads taking the pictures they could have kicked them out and/or charged them with trespassing, they did not.

Do you mean that you have to catch someone in the act of trespassing in order to prosecute?
 
fnj
2008-06-02 12:09:13 PM  
Behold, North Oaks. Snoop away!


View Larger Map
 
2008-06-02 12:13:59 PM  
img147.imageshack.us
 
2008-06-02 12:15:03 PM  
fnj: Behold, North Oaks. Snoop away!

It's not the overhead "satellite" view that they objected to, it was the "street view". Notice how the "street view" doesn't extend into the subdivision any more?
 
2008-06-02 12:33:01 PM  

Too bad all roads aren't private property. There is enough wealth contained in them to support many of the poor, instead of being pilfered by the politicos, unions, and their socialist industries, as is the case now.

Look at any government boondoggle and you'll see the seeds of poverty being sown for future generations. We produce the seed corn to feed the world, yet they consume it, rather than use it to provide for us.

Only the division of labor made possible by private property (capital) can create a society where the standard of living can rise beyond a mere sustenance. Anything else is just a con, and will trap you within a system of accelerating decay, much like the collapse of Rome.

The people may survive, but the value provided us by a voluntary, cooperative society becomes lost, until such a time as mankind can free itself once again, to rise from the ashes and prosper.

So go ahead, blame private property while championing further enslavement to tyranny. Do it now and get it out of your system. At some point though, even you will notice that nothing works anymore, and something different has to occur. The tyrants and their minions will cry out for even more tyranny. Question is, will you still be one of the minions, up until they kill you? Let's hope not.

Only then will the world tire of the fallacy of the benefits of socialism. Only then will the love of voluntary cooperation, overcome the destruction of coercive government, which states, "do as I say and nobody gets hurt." Problem is, the gun you point at others in order to control, also points at you.

All critiques of capitalism are really that of corporatism, creating protected monopolies from which to prey upon us. True freedom of ownership exposes and undermines any and all abusive monopolies, due to the fact that these monopolies fail to meet our needs in an efficient manner. This creates their own point of failure, an opportunity for the entry of a free person to compete.

If you want to ensure the lack of affordable, readily available goods and services, have the government create a system to control it. If "health care" entered your mind just now, you may be old enough to remember back when it was far less regulated, and there were far more doctors, and it was affordable.

Then Nixon caved in to the liberals and created the Health Maintenance Organization Act of 1973.

I wonder, did it help any liberals who weren't seeking political power? Then there is the AMA...



www.mises.org

Aristotle was called "The Philosopher" in the middle ages, but one philosopher who saw this shirt commented: "Wow, private property is certainly not the first concept most people associate with Aristotle!"

And yet he wrote in the Politics: "When everyone has a distinct interest, men will not complain of one another, and they will make more progress, because every one will be attending to his own business."

He went even further to observe that private property does not promote greed; indeed, it is essential for the exercise of charity!

This was a hugely important statement, especially given Plato's proto-communist views. Aristotle should be celebrated not only for his defense of reason and his scientific approach to scholarship but also for providing a brilliant defense of the first institution of the capitalistic society.


Ludwig von Mises Institute (new window)


/cannot understand why any rational person would consent to be ruled by a Bush, a Clinton, an Obama, a McCain, or any other criminal
//don't you people place any value on your own lives?
///or do ya happily drink the Brawndo?
 
2008-06-02 12:36:28 PM  
I wish I had some better knowledge of property laws so I could understand better how an incorporated town can deem themselves private property.

Do they have to forfeit all forms of government assistance, tax monies and public grants? To what capacity are they allowed to act as any other U.S. city or town? What happens if Atlanta, Philadelphia or San Francisco decide they too are private and no one can trespass on their streets?
 
2008-06-02 12:44:43 PM  
Fellows: I wish I had some better knowledge of property laws so I could understand better how an incorporated town can deem themselves private property.

Do they have to forfeit all forms of government assistance, tax monies and public grants? To what capacity are they allowed to act as any other U.S. city or town? What happens if Atlanta, Philadelphia or San Francisco decide they too are private and no one can trespass on their streets?


The town itself is not really incorporated like other towns. It was originally one family's farm that they subdivided and sold via warranty deed. Basically, the city is a private corporation, with its residents as shareholders, with a homeowners association that takes care of the roads, parks, etc.

North Oaks in Wikipedia (new window)
 
2008-06-02 12:45:21 PM  
diesel3: baraqel: I don't care if Google comes on through... Just keep the rednecks out!

/North Oaks Resident

"Redneck" is not a term of endearment so, like the ever protected "N" word, don't farking use it.


I didn't think there were any rednecks in Minnesota, only fishermen, hunters, You Betchas, and crotchety old timers.

PS, we need a Minnesota tag Drew.
 
2008-06-02 12:55:11 PM  
Hal Jalykakik: The town itself is not really incorporated like other towns. It was originally one family's farm that they subdivided and sold via warranty deed. Basically, the city is a private corporation, with its residents as shareholders, with a homeowners association that takes care of the roads, parks, etc.

That's a much better definition than just saying "it's a town." It's about as much of a public city as Disneyworld.

Thanks.
 
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