The Ravaging Ungulate: Students of Russia learn to write cursive in 1st grade.

I assume you know this from personal experience, but I think it's important to also point out that Russians almost always use cursive handwriting and that block letters usually only appear in printed materials. Even when handwritten letters aren't connected they're still shaped like the cursive, which are sometimes completely unrecognizable from their corresponding block letter form- in more cases than in English.
When I studied Russian in college we learned to write only in cursive. Maybe all Russians write and read cursive because it's taught earlier, but I think it's just as likely that it's taught earlier because it's used so much more in everyday life than it is in English-speaking countries.

/to this day my practiced Russian cursive looks much better than my English cursive

TiminPhoenix: It should be relegated to a status as an elective art form.


Exactly. That would be something cool to learn in art. I loved learning calligraphy in art. But that's just what this is. I don't think this is an important enough cause to warrant a "oh noes think of the cursive!" And I doubt people are being so hampered by print writing that something just has to be done.

I still have tender spots on the fingers of my right hand from the nuns wacking me with a wooden ruler when my handwriting didn't come up to snuff. We were not allowed to be in possession of an ink pen before the 5th grade. My family has a copy of a hand written request for veterans benefits from an ancestor who served in the War of 1812 that is nearly unreadable so I claim hereditary disability in this area.

Admittably, some handwriting is very difficult to read.

Powerpoint, anyone?

FormlessOne: So, why teach it in public schools? When we tied specific deliverables to federal dollars, what we get is, of course, specific deliverables. Arts, music, penmanship, sports (that aren't backed by a professional industry) are gradually going out the door.

I think arts are important, but I wouldn't put penmanship in the same category as music and visual arts. I'm very dismayed by our increasing disinterest in teaching the arts in public schools, actually.


Jeff_from_MD: obsolete? Bullsh**. if you don't like cursive, that's because you suck at it, and you never wrote anything that required you to write something as fast as your thoughts were streaming, or as fast as someone speaking.

...

Soon, you sucky students are gonna wonder why we have to memorize multiplication tables I bet.

If you think cursive is necessary for note-taking that's because you suck at condensing material into more easily consumed shorthand, bullet-point type notes. How about them apples? I can easily print fast enough to keep up with my professors, and I find it much easier to go back and study off notes if I'm not trying to write down everything they say. Filtering out the important bits is part of digesting the information, in fact.

Kar98: And who needs to be able to read?!

So.. how's France?

LOL this thread is full of illiterate Fark "intellectuals"

Cursive is faster. Whenever I print, I get lines between my letters because I don't pick up my pen all the way and it looks gnarled and nasty. Cursive doesn't need to be taught in schools, though, but people should be able to read it. I mean, hot damn. Most of the letters look the same as in print with lines coming off of them to join them up with the next letter, and the ones that look completely foreign can be figured out on context.

/Really people
//Is it that hard?

Kar98: And who needs to be able to read?!

Haha, I like that graphic, but not really relevant.
This isn't about students who can't read, it is about students who don't know cursive.
As far as I am concerned, cursive is fine to learn but not terribly useful.

FormlessOne: asscorethethird: Come on! - cursive writting - I learned in 2nd grade. 2nd GRADE! - not at home, in classes. Big piece of newsrag paper with solid main lines and dotted centers. This jogging any memories? I also seem to recall teachers that required all assignments to be written in legible cursive.

WTF is wrong with the world today?

Cursive writing isn't needed at McDonald's? Heck, reading isn't really needed at McDonalds.

So, why teach it in public schools? When we tied specific deliverables to federal dollars, what we get is, of course, specific deliverables. Arts, music, penmanship, sports (that aren't backed by a professional industry) are gradually going out the door. We're not turning out good humans - we're turning out good workers. If you can afford the additional training, well, then you can learn such exotic skills as art appreciation and cursive writing.

Penny wise, pound foolish.

Ah yes, the great art that is cursive writing. It does bring enlightenment and knowledge... In fact a letter written in cursive is practically a painting or a work of art? Right?

In reality it is a skill that is seldom used and even more seldom needed. We don't teach kids how to shoe horses in school, why would we waste time teaching them cursive writing?

TiminPhoenix: It should be relegated to a status as an elective art form.

Otherwise, it's a waste of time. Far better to make typing required of all the little rugrats.

Knowing how to milk a cow or raise a barn is nice, but it's simply not needed by 99.9% of today's population.

Huh? 68% of this country is farmland. Far more people need to know how to milk a cow or raise farm structures than they do how to write in cursive. Sure, milking a cow isn't a skill for city-dwellers in public schools, who think milk comes in and tastes like avoirdupois-measured containers, but for the folks who own two-thirds of the country, skills like that are very much in need.

Dumb example.

I bet if this were something about kids not knowing long division or the table of the elements, Farkers would be a lot more willing to blame the kids for being idiots and not the skills for being archaic or useless. It's still a basic skill that much of the world still uses. My mom does all handwriting in script, my grandma too. It's better to get a nice, fluidly written note on a Christmas card than something typed or printed. It's part of polite society, which seems to have flown out the window for the most part.

Half these posts read like lines from 'Idiocracy'.

Though I can read and write in cursive, I too must wonder what the use is anymore. Everyone says signatures, but realistically, nobody uses actual cursive for their signatures anyways. It's usually just the first initial followed by a squiggly line and then the second initial followed by another squiggly line.

Horribly handwritten print is easier to decipher than horribly handwritten cursive.

Horribly handwritten print FTW!

unix.dude: thelordofcheese: CygnusDarius: Funny enough, I think I'm the last generation of my highschool that taught us how to read and write in cursive.

Yet again, I'm a leftie, so that means my cursive sucks.

/My older brother's a system engineer with a major in AI intelligence and writes in cursive
//So he's getting a kick out of your replies

AI intelligence?

Artificial Intelligence intelligence. It's much like:
UMB Bank (United Missouri Bank Bank), and
ATM machine (Automated Teller Machine machine).

Thank you, you got my point.

Jeff_from_MD:
Cursive is simply the superior method, and doesn't require you to lift your pen off the page. Unless you have your gay laptop with you, you're never gonna be able to write decent.


Yeah. I've gone back to school after being out of academia as a student for the past 10 years. Now, my classmates are all clickety-clickety with the laptops supposedly taking notes (although I see a lot of *ahem* multitasking). I bought a laptop for this purpose myself, but I found that I could write in cursive much, much faster than I can type. Also, it just feels awkward to me to have a computer in front of me in a lecture hall. My pencil does not "crash" or require an outside power source.

Cursive has been considered to be poor pedagogical form when writing on a chalkboard for students for decades, however, because it is difficult to read from a distance.

I'm older than dirt so I had to learn cursive. The only time I'd see it used was in written letters (anyone remember those?)between friends and family.

My grandfather was a product of the UK school system of the early 1890s. His cursive penmanship was excellent.

Wasn't there something in the news recently about teaching young-uns how to write a check?

/Everyone will be a dinosaur in their own time.

FormlessOne: TiminPhoenix: It should be relegated to a status as an elective art form.

Otherwise, it's a waste of time. Far better to make typing required of all the little rugrats.

Knowing how to milk a cow or raise a barn is nice, but it's simply not needed by 99.9% of today's population.

Huh? 68% of this country is farmland. Far more people need to know how to milk a cow or raise farm structures than they do how to write in cursive. Sure, milking a cow isn't a skill for city-dwellers in public schools, who think milk comes in and tastes like avoirdupois-measured containers, but for the folks who own two-thirds of the country, skills like that are very much in need.

Dumb example.

I am not so sure. Only 20 percent of americans live in rural areas and only a fraction of those actually farm. And of the ones who farm only a fraction have dairy farms. The number of people who have to know how to milk cows is probably very, very low

MPAVictoria: In reality it is a skill that is seldom used and even more seldom needed. We don't teach kids how to shoe horses in school, why would we waste time teaching them cursive writing?

Fool. Here's my old high school. Farrier work is taught there. (That's "shoeing horses," for the folks at home.) So is milking cows, animal husbandry, and lots of other skills. If you own a farm (and two-thirds of the country is friggin' farmland), I'll bet at least some of those skills are still needed.

Why? Because we still have horses. And cows. And chickens. And farms. Again, it's only the folks who don't use, need, or comprehend the need for those skills that are quick to blow them off as "a waste of time" or "useless."

HappyLittleTree: Also, I doubt printing is significantly slower than cursive.

It is, but both are significantly slower than typing. The whole point of cursive is to write faster, isn't it? So let's just make sure kids can use home row by the time they're in third grade and communication will be so much better. Heck, we may even see the demise of the "wut r u here 4??" typing that annoys so many of us.

The Ravaging Ungulate: Students of Russia learn to write cursive in 1st grade.

Writing cursive was one of the coolest things when I started learning Russian, (as a native English speaker). I was so used to seeing that soviet/KGB font from the news in the 80's that I never really thought about Cyrillic cursive. Very cool to me in high school, anyway.

Also, I learned English cursive in 1st grade in the states. I thought it was the standard.

As someone who opens and reads mail at my job, I hate it when old people write in about something. Yes, I can read cursive, but when Gramma's hand doesn't work the way it used to and the dementia is setting in, it's damn near impossible to read. For the love of God, teach your grandparents how to use a computer.

Oh yeah, kick, replies, etc.

Do they still teach Latin in grade school?
Just wonderin'.

Mordac Lord of Unholy Fury: Yes, I can read cursive, but when Gramma's hand doesn't work the way it used to and the dementia is setting in, it's damn near impossible to read. For the love of God, teach your grandparents how to use a computer.

Yes, nothing in nature pairs more naturally than Grannies with dementia and computers.

FormlessOne: MPAVictoria: In reality it is a skill that is seldom used and even more seldom needed. We don't teach kids how to shoe horses in school, why would we waste time teaching them cursive writing?

Fool. Here's my old high school. Farrier work is taught there. (That's "shoeing horses," for the folks at home.) So is milking cows, animal husbandry, and lots of other skills. If you own a farm (and two-thirds of the country is friggin' farmland), I'll bet at least some of those skills are still needed.

Why? Because we still have horses. And cows. And chickens. And farms. Again, it's only the folks who don't use, need, or comprehend the need for those skills that are quick to blow them off as "a waste of time" or "useless."

I can take a class in ancient egyptian pornography. Just because the class exists does not make the material useful for the majority of the population. If you want to have taking cursive as an option fine, just don't waste actual core subject class time on it. I bet farrier class was not mandatory.

Why teach any sort of writing? Talking is so much faster.

MPAVictoria:I am not so sure. Only 20 percent of americans live in rural areas and only a fraction of those actually farm. And of the ones who farm only a fraction have dairy farms. The number of people who have to know how to milk cows is probably very, very low

Really? There's a friggin' waiting list at my old high school to learn how to milk cows. But, then again, I grew up in rural farmland, worked on farms, went to a high school whose vocational agriculture program was one of the most desired in the state, and wouldn't know jack about it.

Sure, the school also teaches math, sciences, history, typing, CAD/CAM, programming, and so on, but, hey, when you're a rural high school with a limited budget, you've got plenty of time to waste on unnecessary skills as well, right?

Feh.

FormlessOne: TiminPhoenix: It should be relegated to a status as an elective art form.

Otherwise, it's a waste of time. Far better to make typing required of all the little rugrats.

Knowing how to milk a cow or raise a barn is nice, but it's simply not needed by 99.9% of today's population.

Huh? 68% of this country is farmland. Far more people need to know how to milk a cow or raise farm structures than they do how to write in cursive. Sure, milking a cow isn't a skill for city-dwellers in public schools, who think milk comes in and tastes like avoirdupois-measured containers, but for the folks who own two-thirds of the country, skills like that are very much in need.

Dumb example.

While there is a lot more farmland than urban land, you can't assume that there are more people on that farmland. If the two types of lands had the same population densities, then there really wouldn't be such a thing as cities.

Also, most farms have farm structures built by contractors, and most dairy farms have machines that milk the cows. The days of clearing off some land to grow more wheat, and using that wood to build a new barn to house your new dairy cow that needs milked every morning are long gone. Well, unless you're Amish.

Cursive writing is good for taking notes when you don't have a laptop to type fast on.

Cursive = faster than printing because you don't have to lift the pen off the paper as much, IMHO.

Are people really equating ignorance of a handwriting style as an indication of something other than said handwriting style's uselessness?

No wonder kids are getting dumber.

I'm a professional writer, and I could give a rats ass about cursive. THERE'S NO REASON TO CARE, unless you think form is more important than function. Yeah, I get the "penmanship" thing, but if you think the same ideals can't be taught through a less cumbersome idiom, you might want to think that through again.

Let's bring back shorthand!

MorePeasPlease: Do they still teach Latin in grade school?
Just wonderin'.

But you'd sound so cool saying, "Yes, I read it in the original Latin."

picturescrazy: The days of clearing off some land to grow more wheat, and using that wood to build a new barn to house your new dairy cow that needs milked every morning are long gone.

And so are the days when the fast food cashier (excuse me, "Assistant Manager") was able to give you change for a tenner when you owe $7.50 without a computer.

FormlessOne: I grew up in rural farmland, worked on farms

I did this as well, and I will say that all of those things that you want taught in schools is usually taught on the farm already. If you happen to be one of the few who need those skills, you're going to learn it outside of school anyways.

When I sit down and do it right, my almost-cursive (i.e., with a few minor quirks) with a fountain pen is not terribly slow, fun, and pretty legible in my case. My "non-cursive" chicken tracks? Not so much.

/ Realized I haven't used my fountain pen in a while... time to refill it.

cursive still serves a useful purpose... it is a great introduction to the indoctrinating, repetitive, soul crushing constraints that the public school system places on the wild, creative, and potentially dangerous minds of the children of this great republic. if it weren't for these useless order inducing tasks, children would grow up more inclined to think for themselves... then they would never find comfort in the hive collective that is being developed for them. when the time comes for the google implants that make all information (that is permitted) accessible to everyone, then we can truly have an autonomous thoughtless scaleable workforce that can adjust and be programmed at will to accomplish virtually any task. this is how the framers of the constitution saw the future. with liberty and justice for all...

/right?
//i hope the network never goes down, since they likely wouldn't be able to take a piss without it.

picturescrazy: Though I can read and write in cursive, I too must wonder what the use is anymore. Everyone says signatures, but realistically, nobody uses actual cursive for their signatures anyways. It's usually just the first initial followed by a squiggly line and then the second initial followed by another squiggly line.

I must confess I can barely read cursive. It's a very slow and error-prone read for me. All these squiggles look pretty much alike.

hulk hogan meat shoes: Post

Exactly. I think it would give much more mental stimulation for kids to learn a second language.

My kids are learning cursive in elementary school. I guess we should feel sorry for kids who go to crappy schools.

MorePeasPlease: Do they still teach Latin in grade school?
Just wonderin'.

Not unless you go to a private Catholic school. They hardly even offer Latin in public schools as a foreign language. My high school had a Latin teacher, but she started teaching at a local Catholic school because they could offer better pay and free schooling to her children. She was Catholic, so she decided to take the offer. Can't say I blame her really

I learned cursive in elementary, but then our teachers started asking for us to not write in it because we sucked at cursive and started putting us in typing classes. My twin never learned cursive, and my ex (a senior in high school this coming school year) has said before that he was a part of the last group to learn cursive. They learned it, but then were told they would never use it and went straight into typing classes. Really, they learn enough to sign their name, and that's it

HappyLittleTree: hulk hogan meat shoes: Post

Exactly. I think it would give much more mental stimulation for kids to learn a second language.

Guess what, only Americans "write" in "printed" letters.

Let's worry about whether or not a person can write, or is communication not the over-arching idea here?

">

Sister Mary Elizabeth: "I just cannot understand why George's handwriting is so bad Mrs. Carlin"

/not so obscure

DeWayne Mann: /to this day my practiced Russian cursive looks much better than my English cursive

Sline, are you me?

/completely illegible English handwriting (print or cursive)
//decent Russian handwriting (cursive only)
///only took a year of Russian in college

Quite possibly, except I only took it for one quarter! I did spend a month in Russia, though the only thing I wrote there in Russian was my name for my student visa...they corrected my transliteration. :(

Kar98: Post

What is your point? Focus on a writing system so the kids can communicate, and seeing as most things they'll encounter via internet and books will be in print, it's the most logical to learn. Learning BOTH forms is a complete waste of time. It gives you nothing stimulating at all. I can't remember the last time I encountered cursive besides signing my own name.

My general handwriting is horrible because I use it so seldomly.

Bad legibility in the 1st place + always using a keyboard = horrific chicken scratch.