Thunderpipes: Liberals give their candidates free passes, because all they care about is putting down republicans. They don't even care who they elect to office, that is scary.

This coming from somebody who elected a man who:

1. was stopped for DWI
2. ran two companies down to the ground with his inept leadership
3. whose family's personal wealth is intricately tied to the Saudi royal family and their whims.
4. first goal was to become comissioner of baseball, not president
5. went AWOL from his natl guard service and then had the cynicism to criticize his opponent's service record in 2004.

Do I keep going? You obviously nominated the guy with the biggest cash and the most unscrupulous advisor (Rove) rather than the man who didn't have quite as big a coffer or wasn't quite as adept at smearing his opponent with rumors of a black love child.

Yeah, you guys are a real piece of work too.

deadapostle:
No. You must fight to the death. How about pistols at dawn?

Shiat, if I'm still in Dallas this time next week I'm there.

/Measured 110F on the roof - I gotta get back to my desk jorb

And, of course, I meant 2008.

whidbey: FarkingSean: What exactly do you think when you hear the pastor of a church constantly blaming white people for everything that is wrong with black people?

I know exactly what I think when someone takes a quote and twists it to mean what they feel like it should mean.

I think you've got nothing, and you're repeating busted talking points.

How many examples do you need to pull your head out of your a$$?

No one has produced jack sh*t that's convinced me that the church is racist, or that it preaches hate. And unless you've got something to prove that, I'll simply add you to the List of People That Have Got Nothing, because it sounds like you belong there.

Direct question: Answer it if you have a shred of courage...

Was Jeremiah Wright's comment saying that the white man created AIDS a hate-filled race-baiting, white-hating comment or not?

Yes or no question. If you can't answer yes or no, you are a farking loser with an IQ below room temperature, and I strongly recommend you go gargle some Drano.

Visiting the hospital and telling the press doesn't make him a good person.

What'd make him a good person is if he had gave enough of a damn to visit before he was running, maybe enough to see the awful conditions we were warehousing troops in... I don't want the guy who is barely competent in his oversight responsibility for 6 months out of the last 20 years.

FarkingSean: Oh, yes, I'm gloating trolling.

FarkingSean: Was Jeremiah Wright's comment saying that the white man created AIDS a hate-filled race-baiting, white-hating comment or not?

Have you stopped beating your wife or not?

nemecizer: (Faux-bama, of course, has no record of working with anyone, really, as he just hasn't done anything).

I can understand disagreement in American politics, but to be honest I'll never understand the attitude that has crept in through the last 8 years (it was probably earlier than that, but the earliest instance I recall clearly were the Sore/Loserman license plates in 2000) that makes it ok to come up with idiotic nicknames for candidates, whether on the right or left. It reduces the tone of discourse to the level of a high school football game, and frankly I want my leaders to be more than strutting quarterbacks and coquettish cheerleaders.

Thunderpipes: So the solution is to tax them more? The solution is to simplify and strengthen the tax code, making it advantageous to stay in the US.

Family Guy is on!

Hell no don't tax them more. Just as you say, fix the tax system we have. Get rid of some of the loopholes and keep new ones from being created.
But I say again, I don't think taxes are the main reason companies are leaving the U.S.

"Family Guy is on!"
meh ... it's a rerun

FarkingSean: Was Jeremiah Wright's comment saying that the white man created AIDS a hate-filled race-baiting, white-hating comment or not?

Got a link to the actual quote?

Yeah, and how could anyone think that "kill whitey" was racist when they were OBVIOUSLY talking about Whitey Deluca. And he was Italian...one of those olive colored mutha-farkas. But they were out of town when that shiat happened...

FarkingSean:
And libs, don't start quoting polls. The media's made-up numbers didn't help you in '04, they won't help you now.

Oh, yes, I'm gloating.

Right on! Mississippi's 1st district, Illinois's 14th, Louisiana's 6th - Republican's have nothing to worry about polls, elections, or that liberal media garbage. Fark reality and it's liberal bias!

LOGICAL_PSYCHO: Thunderpipes: So the solution is to tax them more? The solution is to simplify and strengthen the tax code, making it advantageous to stay in the US.

Family Guy is on!

Hell no don't tax them more. Just as you say, fix the tax system we have. Get rid of some of the loopholes and keep new ones from being created.
But I say again, I don't think taxes are the main reason companies are leaving the U.S.

"Family Guy is on!"
meh ... it's a rerun

It is just about money. We could make more tax revenue, and enjoy a better economy by lowering the tax rate, and making it bad to move offshore. Right now it is the other way around.

Surpheon: Don't worry, it'll make sense if you ever take a little econ 101 and read up on global commodity markets and current events.

Don't believe everything they teach you in college, genius. When you get out into the real world and develop a little bit of common sense, you'll see that all that babble means jack.

Overtaxing oil certainly hasn't worked for Europe, who are no closer to energy independence than we are, but are paying $9.00 per gallon for gas. And they've had tax rates on oil of over 60% for as long as I can remember.

No government has ever taxed itself into prosperity. If you want to raise the gas tax and put EVERY DAMNED NICKEL into alternative energy infrastructure, then fine, I'll donate an extra 50 cents per gallon if it means that in a few years I'm not sending my hard earned money to Iran. But your charts and graphs and freshman econ classes don't change the basics - the more of our money we give to the government and allow it to control, the less freedom we have to control ourselves, and the more dependent we become.

The private sector can do more with a dollar than any government can, and they'll create jobs in the process. If you believe otherwise, you're drowning in lefty kool aid.

FarkingSean:
Was Jeremiah Wright's comment saying that the white man created AIDS a hate-filled race-baiting, white-hating comment or not?


Could you provide the quote please? The quote I heard was, "The government lied about inventing the HIV virus as a means of genocide against people of color. The government lied." That would indicated the idiot hated the government but was not white-hating (note "the government" is not "whitie," indeed many white people are not in the government). Not sure if I missed another quote from the Reverend Douche on the subject or if you're just a liar.

Thanks.

FarkingSean: Don't believe everything they teach you in college, genius. When you get out into the real world and develop a little bit of common sense, you'll see that all that babble means jack.

Boy you're just a treasure trove of right-wing talking points, aren't you?

Still waiting for that link that PROVES that Obama's FORMER church is racist or preaches hate.

This thread is like watching a pasty fat guy who hasn't showered in two weeks yank his smeg-laden crank to a picture of Karl Rove.

whidbey: FarkingSean: Was Jeremiah Wright's comment saying that the white man created AIDS a hate-filled race-baiting, white-hating comment or not?

Got a link to the actual quote?

Do you honestly mean you are taking the position that what was said is not racist, when you have never even read the farking QUOTE?

Google.com, genius. Here are 209,000 citations for you.

Link (new window)

Surpheon:
What the hell? I didn't even know Trinity had a website

Surpheon: and I'm not interested enough in what a cranky old marine preacher thinks to dig them up myself
Wow ....... just Wow

So you have been arguing this whole time without even going to the churches own site or researching any of the "rev's" comments?

True definition of troll

FarkingSean: Google.com, genius. Here are 209,000 citations for you.

Not good enough.

Either provide the actual quote or video, or drop the point completely.

deadapostle: Surpheon

The beginning of your response to Thunderpipes will undoubtedly be copied and pasted on many a right wing website. Careful with where you plant your sarcasm.


I'm going to have to google for that. I may indeed not have the skill to walk the fine line between sarcasm and trolling without falling to the dark side.

Gee, a visit! Wow, that'll fix everything! Now they don't need money or better facilities or anything, because John McCain came for a VISIT! Who needs meaningful action when you can have a symbolic gesture?

Screw this guy. If he wants to be the president of Iraq, he should move there. What we need right now is a president of the United States, and Obama's the right man for the job.

rga184: You know, I don't think it matters much at this point because Wright has obviously gone off the deep end since this sermon hit the intartubes. But the point of his sermon wasn't about "asking god to damn america". Rather he was saying that this country has committed a lot of sins (you know which ones he listed) and that if we were to be honest about what we deserve, we would sing "God damn america" instead of "God Bless America"

I suppose to some of you even that doesn't matter much, but for a man who served his country as a marine, I think it makes a difference when you accuse him of asking God to damn america and when you accuse him of saying this country doesn't deserve God's blessing.

You served as a Marine or Wright did? Not that it matters all that much, I just want to make sure I know where you are coming from (I'm an Iraq war vet BTW).

He clearly said black people should be saying, "God Damn America" which is VERY different from saying the country doesn't deserve His blessings. Either way, basing that off of lies is incredibly disingenious and in and of itself, it's about as hate-mongering as you can get. If Wright spent half a minute researching it, you can see that researchers put the virus coming from Africa, not Tuskegee. But of course, that doesn't fit his agenda...

The crux of his argument is yet to be discussed by anybody still masturbating about how what Wright said can hurt Obama.

Are we the type of country that God would bless?

Certainly we're good in many ways. I think in many ways we can be. But we're too busy patting ourselves in the back that we don't recognize reasons why God would also damn us. We enslaved a whole people. We experiemented on them at Tuskegee (which is probably the source of the whole AIDS rumor among blacks). We encouraged a country's farmers to start a drug trade so they could pay for their blood war against the soviet union (and those very people later "came home to roost" when they attacked us on september 11 2001). We manipulated govts abroad to suit our interests, we installed murderous dictators in Guatemala and Chile to keep communists out or perhaps even so we could get cheap bananas.

Is there any country worthy of God's blessings? Heck no, but does that mean he should damn each and every one of them? Well, Wright thinks so. So that's it, plague and pestilence for everyone until we are all dead, dying or just in too much pain to care either way.

For a majority of the history of humankind, there has been hate and bigotry by those in power against those who are different. It's the way it was, civilizations didn't have the luxury of knowing anybody before they met them so the safest route was to put them well under your power and subjugate them until you were 100% positive they posed you no threat. It was a kill or be killed world.

Now, we see people as individuals and all that other crap you hear from Oprah. It's the right way to do things, globalization and the availability of information makes it so you can learn about and assimulate a lot more about people (their ideas, culture and religion) so conquest is becoming a thing of the past. But it's not a lightswitch. We don't go from war and conquest to loving and peaceful like that. It's too ingrained into human thought now just to get rid of.

So that's what you've been seeing throughout American history. We'll make some progress (freeing the slaves and the immediate freedom they enjoyed) and when things get scary, we fall back into our old ways (American Japanese in WWII, American Muslims now). Does that make what we did right? No, but what you are seeing is a shift from one mindset to another (combined with some old-fashioned selfishness, I do have to put that in there) so all things considered, I think Wright has it backwards.

I could keep writing and writing, but I don't want people to think I'm anti-american. What I do want people to think about is the whole context of that sermon, not just he soundbite that they find politically expedient.

Sure, Wright might be bigoted and have said a lot of stupid and prejuidiced things other than this sermon, but for pete's sake, why don't you cite those? Because the "God Damn America" thing is out of context and innacurate enough that it makes anybody who brings it up over and over look rather unintelligent and desperate.

I think the GD America thing is brought up so much because it's very anti-American, no matter your skin color or your political leanings. Nobody wants to be damned. It's not a good thing to be. It's like saying, I want you to contract a horrible disease and die a very painful drawn out death. It's akin to punching a baby. Also, Michelle Obama said something similar (at least in the same vein) when she said that this is the first time she was proud to be an American in her adult life (or something like that, I don't feel like looking it up verbatim). That kind of leads you to think, what, was she ashamed? I too am American and I don't think it's anything to be ashamed of, why should I feel ashamed? That sermon draws a line between those two points (the wife and the church) which raises some questions. God Damn America and Americans should be ashamed.

Now, keep in mind, I'm not advocating those particular views, I'm just saying that's why that particular sermon is probably brought up so much. Just a thought.

Darth Shatner: When someone blames the president for 'their quality of life' what they are actually doing is saying they cant handle freedom of choice.... They want to be controlled, that way they dont have to be responsible for their failures, hardships, quality of life.... They can blame someone else.

Notice how Barack and Hillary both want to take away peoples personal responsibility thus giving even more power to the federal government.

The President and his administration, Congress, the courts systems, and everyone all the way down to states' representatives, mayors, and Sheriffs all have a responsibility to a degree for the quality of life for all of their constituents. There is no single person or factor for anyone's quality of life.

In my opinion, Barack wants to take people's personal responsibility away, but want the government to acknowledge the effect that it has on the people and to be more considerate to the masses. It's not about giving more power to the federal government, but about recognizing how much power has already been given to it, and having governmental members be personally responsible for their actions as well.

I don't know what Hillary's intentions are, because although I've studied her as well, I find that she is rife with conflicting statements and opinions. I liked her in the 90's, although I didn't respect her position regarding the Lewinsky scandal as I found it to be politicizing her marriage. I supported her senatorial campaign when I lived in New York, as well. I even considered supporting her for President, but in my opinion, she developed into some sort of political void. There is nothing left of the Hillary Clinton I once respected. Now she's like Darth Vader to a once Anakin Skywalker. Wow... this conversation just took a downturn.

I am only 29 years old, so I still have a great deal of the naïvité associated with youth, but I am certainly past the stage of complete ignorance. That being said, I can see that my view in this may be less accurate than your own. Until the scandal, I wanted Eliot Spitzer for President for quite a long time. Perhaps in another country, I still would. He did great things for New York City and New York State. He was a fantastic public servant. See? I still have a hard time letting go of a man whose career has been ruined.

Surpheon

I pointed out the president has direct control over the quality of life of 3 million people.

You sure did, and you backed it up with some stellar data: telling me your neighbor has weeds in their lawn. Thats some mighty fine work you did there.

Extremely scientific research and backed with undebateable facts.

Since you are telling me all about how the POTUS controlls the quality of life of Military famlies...I had some opressed childhood memories flash back...

Growing up as a military brat I lived in 5 different states, 4 different countries and on three 3 different continents.

I can remember how every evening at the dinner table my College Educated Commissioned Officer dad reminded us to thank the President of the United States for our quality of life. Never once did my father take any credit for "the quality of life" we lived.

Every day we woke up to a phone call from the President himself giving us our daily quality of life update.

greased up deaf guy: Now, keep in mind, I'm not advocating those particular views, I'm just saying that's why that particular sermon is probably brought up so much. Just a thought.

Those are noble guesses, but I'm more inclined to believe that freedom of speech is a b*tch for a lot of folks.

Plus, they seem to think that Wright is running for President. Odd.

whidbey: FarkingSean: Oh, yes, I'm gloating trolling.

I'm trolling? At least I am providing logical arguments to back up my opinions. You and your cohorts are just throwing out mindless crap trying to defend the indefensible.

Your arguments saying that Wright and Trinity church are not racist are about as thin as me saying that the sky isn't blue, since it's really an issue of refraction and illusion.

Why don't you libs just be HONEST, and say "Yeah, he's racist. But he's not a conservative, so fark you, I;m voting for him anyways."

That's stupid, but at least honest.

As someone who was once banhammered for posting "offensive imagery," I have to ask...

WHY IS MISTER AJ'S IMAGE OF A FREAKING LYNCHED BLACK MAN STILL UP, MODS?!?!?!?!

FarkingSean: I'm trolling? At least I am providing logical arguments to back up my opinions.

You must've been posting them in white text.

FarkingSean:
Do you honestly mean you are taking the position that what was said is not racist, when you have never even read the farking QUOTE?

Where have I EVER taken the position that "what he said" was not racist? I have a big mouth, you don't have to talk for me or imagine more coming out of it. Please show me where I said his AIDs quote was not racist. You are lying to say I have argued that. Furthermore, the quote I found via the google web search was:
"The government lied about inventing the HIV virus as a means of genocide against people of color. The government lied." As I posted before. NOT "the white man created AIDS a hate-filled race-baiting, white-hating comment or not" as you stated. You appear to be lying when saying Wright claims "the white man" created AIDs, but he's a big enough douche I'm still hoping you will find a cite for that and not prove yourself to be a completely useless noise machine.

But as you are a liar about my position, which is easily and clearly proven by the posts on this very page, I assume you are also a liar about Wright's accusing the white man, as opposed to the government (which is not a race, BTW), of creating AIDs.

FarkingSean: At least I am providing logical arguments to back up my opinions.

Sure you are.

Where? I just see a lot of hate-filled generalizations and parroted talking points.

BTW, still waiting for that video or quote that backs up your contention that the church is racist or preaches hate.

whidbey: FarkingSean: Google.com, genius. Here are 209,000 citations for you.

Not good enough.

Either provide the actual quote or video, or drop the point completely.

I'm not going to link you to satisfy your urge to get someone else to do what you want. You've been trying to scratch that itch since the thread began. Obvious troll is obvious.

Not good enough...what a joke. Like you have been endowed with the power to unilaterally decide what is and isn't good enough, and when a point must be conceded.

You're a jackass that has chosen to bait and insult people rather than have an intelligent debate. If you are over 20 years old and still behave like such a child, then you are hopeless. If you are under 20, well, you are a child and your opinion means jack.

Darth Shatner: Growing up as a military brat I lived in 5 different states, 4 different countries and on three 3 different continents.

I can remember how every evening at the dinner table my College Educated Commissioned Officer dad reminded us to thank the President of the United States for our quality of life. Never once did my father take any credit for "the quality of life" we lived.

Every day we woke up to a phone call from the President himself giving us our daily quality of life update.

Surpheon

See. That's how it's done. That is quality sarcasm. Unfortunately, he seems to be completely ignorant of your position. It seems to me that you aren't saying that the POTUS is 100% responsible for the quality of life of members of the US armed forces, but that he bears some responsibility for it. You aren't even saying that he is mostly or even just a little responsible. You've said that he is AT ALL. I'd say that's a hard point to argue against, so I suppose that's why nobody is doing it.

Darth Shatner: Surpheon

...I had some opressed childhood memories flash back...

Growing up as a military brat I lived in 5 different states, 4 different countries and on three 3 different continents.

I can remember how every evening at the dinner table my College Educated Commissioned Officer dad reminded us to thank the President of the United States for our quality of life. Never once did my father take any credit for "the quality of life" we lived.

Every day we woke up to a phone call from the President himself giving us our daily quality of life update.

You said: "The president of the united states has no control over someones quality of life." Twice actually. You stand behind that statement and therefore are sincerely arguing that the President's decisions have no impact on an active military soldier's quality of life. I disagree and think that's a stupid statement, but you can hang onto it all you want. I'm not interested in debating things I never said.

LOGICAL_PSYCHO: Surpheon:
What the hell? I didn't even know Trinity had a website

Surpheon: and I'm not interested enough in what a cranky old marine preacher thinks to dig them up myself
Wow ....... just Wow

So you have been arguing this whole time without even going to the churches own site or researching any of the "rev's" comments?

True definition of troll

this THIS THIS THIS

You are responsible for the quality of your life, period. Want more money? Work harder, and smarter.

deadapostle:
Surpheon

See. That's how it's done. That is quality sarcasm. Unfortunately, he seems to be completely ignorant of your position. It seems to me that you aren't saying that the POTUS is 100% responsible for the quality of life of members of the US armed forces, but that he bears some responsibility for it. You aren't even saying that he is mostly or even just a little responsible. You've said that he is AT ALL. I'd say that's a hard point to argue against, so I suppose that's why nobody is doing it.

It is a hard point to argue against (absolute statements are always wrong...), and I am being a bit of a dick about it, but in my defense:
1. A pet peeve is Americans biatching about how their government is useless (farking anarchists should move to Somolia)
2. Darth really does squirm beautifully and I had a couple hours to kill

Thunderpipes: You are responsible for the quality of your life, period. Want more money? Work harder, and smarter.

Go here ^{(^)} to the ICU and tell that to them. There are other factors involved. No man is an island, after all.

FarkingSean: I'm not going to link you to satisfy your urge to get someone else to do what you want. You've been trying to scratch that itch since the thread began. Obvious troll is obvious.

Troll, my ass. I'm damn serious. You anti-Obama types have got NOTHING, so you grasp at straws.

And your ad hominem only proves your inability.

FarkingSean: "whidbey:
Either provide the actual quote or video, or drop the point completely."

I'm not going to link you to satisfy your urge to get someone else to do what you want.

You linked to (the first few pages I bothered to look at):
"The government lied about inventing the HIV virus as a means of genocide against people of color. The government lied."

You claimed he said "the white man created AIDS."

Thanks for confirming that you are indeed a liar, or so blindingly dumb that you thing "the government" is a synonym for "white man". Your whole argument has been based on a quote that you made up.

Surpheon: Your whole argument has been based on a quote that you made up.

Why am I not surprised...?

Nabb1: Suit yourself, I guess. But ask yourself this: If a white church were shown praising McCain or Hillary and making fun of Obama, with the preacher carrying on and saying, "Obama thinks he's entitled to be the nominee because he's black" and all the folks in the congregation were cheering and clapping and carrying on, well, wouldn't you think that racist?

Yes. But it does not work both ways. One group dominates and oppresses the other group. That is the concept of racism. If a group is being dominated, exploited and oppressed, or has been for centuries until say, a couple decades ago, it would be ridiculous to even pretend their anger or their perspective on entitlement is the same as racism.

Surpheon

It is a hard point to argue against (absolute statements are always wrong...)

Is saying an Absolute statement is always wrong, an absolute statement?

whidbey: You anti-Obama types have got NOTHING, so you grasp at straws.

(Don't go to strong here, there are legit economic and foreign policy reasons to be against Obama, where opinions can differ. Now, the mouth-breathers pushing the Wright and flag pin angles - they have nothing.)

Surpheon: absolute statements are always wrong.

Mind if I quote you on that one?

Overall, I don't find this to be a waste of time, though. I like to hold the assumption that I am just as wrong in my opinion as I feel those who hold differing opinions are. I find that I still trust and maintain my own opinion, but there are a great number of times that I am enlightened by my political opponents.

Surpheon: Where have I EVER taken the position that "what he said" was not racist? I have a big mouth, you don't have to talk for me or imagine more coming out of it.

HERE: Surpheon: Lets see, definition 1, nope. Definition 2, nope. Definition 3, based on the citations of white preachers and members at the church, no. Definition 4 (another dictionary source) no (although this is the one you can go after Wright on a few counts). Definition 5, no (he's accusing Senator Clinton of it, not doing it himself).


HERE: Surpheon: While you can get your panties as twisted as you want to get you off by it, the rant was not racist.


Hard to keep all your trolling straight huh?

Darth Shatner: Surpheon

It is a hard point to argue against (absolute statements are always wrong...)

Is saying an Absolute statement is always wrong, an absolute statement?

YES THAT WAS THE FARKING JOKE. And it is an old one. Next time I'll use one of those obnoxious smilies rather than ellipses I guess.

Damnit, now you're just jerking my chain.

Suicidal Writer [TotalFark] Quote 2008-06-01 03:35:39 PM
Since it's news he still reaps benefit without coming off as sleazy for having cameras. They don't need a visit. They need legislation and an improved, streamlined process at the VA.


That explains why democrats could give a rats ass about the veterans and never make personal visits. I doubt Obama will ever visit the troops. At least McCain CARES enough about veterans to actually visit them in person and not as a photo op.

Surpheon: whidbey: You anti-Obama types have got NOTHING, so you grasp at straws.

(Don't go to strong here, there are legit economic and foreign policy reasons to be against Obama, where opinions can differ. Now, the mouth-breathers pushing the Wright and flag pin angles - they have nothing.)

But teh librul meedy-uh sez itz impurtint.

Surpheon: there are legit economic and foreign policy reasons to be against Obama, where opinions can differ

You could have fooled me, based on the utter lack of discussion on those matters here.