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(Guardian)   Sixty-eight per cent of Italians want gypsies expelled. You know who else hated gypsies?   (guardian.co.uk) divider line 340
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7015 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 May 2008 at 11:21 AM (6 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2008-05-17 08:46:11 PM  
FarkinNortherner: Obdicut alleged Roma g/f: Also, do watch your wallet. Since none of you (haters) are smart enough to pass the verbal reasoning part of the MCAT, I might be your doctor someday. Your cancer doctor. Cancer drugs are expensive, $25,000 a year, and your HMO will only cover so much. So just hand the wallet over now. No camp burning required.

Utterly mercenary, with no sympathy for your fellow man ? As ways to shatter stereotypes go, it's an unusual approach.


Nah.

Come down with cancer, get financially sodomized...

\\works in hospital
//best of luck to obdicut& his gf
 
2008-05-17 09:11:33 PM  
Obdicut: You can tell it's not him because I am way more annoying and preachy. Or, if you find him annoying, I am a different kind of annoying.

If I learned one thing in the "Marine core" (snicker), it's that Fark significant others do not share logins.
 
2008-05-17 09:26:48 PM  
No one here has mentioned the inbreeding in Eastern European Roma communities. Just behind wealthy sharia ruled Gulf Arabs, Roma have the highest percentage of 1st and 2nd cousin inbreeding in the world. The number of crazy genetic diseases that afflict Roma, AND ONLY Roma, are in the dozens, and are patrilinear and matrilinear. Some of these diseases still have no name because no doctors can stand dealing with these scum to try to help them.

These people the Roma are a dead end of humanity, there is nothing worth saving from the lowest end of their gene pools.
 
2008-05-17 09:33:05 PM  
ethics-gradient: Because they aren't pretending the problem doesn't exist? You keep on ignoring behaviour like this and pretty soon you've got a whole parasitic subculture on your hands.
Which is what has happened and is happening still.


Yeah, keep pretending that the "rational" way to deal with these problems of which you speak is the extermination of an ethnic minority. Good to see humanity has come so far. You don't have to ignore crime, you don't even have to like Roma, but seriously the comments in this thread are straight out of colonial powers talking about Africans, or Middle-Ages Catholics talking about Jews. Keep pretending there isn't a difference between recognizing a problem that needs attention and calling for the death and/or forceful expulsion for hundreds of thousands of people as a group.
 
2008-05-17 09:37:36 PM  
40oz_A_Knight: If I learned one thing in the "Marine core" (snicker), it's that Fark significant others do not share logins.

Hey, I was in the shower. I've warned her it was against Fark rules.

however, unlike a certain "soldier", you'll notice that I didn't blame anything on her. I stand behind everything she said. So the situation isn't really analogous.

The experience of arguing in this thread has pretty much made her decide against getting her own login-- but I bet she gets sucked in eventually. Who could resist the brawny yet cerebral charm of Farkers?

On a side note, this is probably the most depressing Fark thread I've ever participated in.
 
2008-05-17 09:59:16 PM  
Obdicut:

On a side note, this is probably the most depressing Fark thread I've ever participated in.


You must not pay attention, wait till someone famous dies.
 
2008-05-17 10:03:49 PM  
mea.culpa:Yeah, keep pretending that the "rational" way to deal with these problems of which you speak is the extermination of an ethnic minority.
That's your pretence not mine, and as I already said this is nothing to do with race it's a cultural issue. I never mentioned genocide and it's nothing to do with my points I raised.
 
2008-05-17 10:04:36 PM  
40oz_A_Knight: If I learned one thing in the "Marine core" (snicker), it's that Fark significant others do not share logins.

Semper Fib!

Obdicut: Hey, I was in the shower.
Obdicut's girlfriend: {sigh} Obdicut went to work

Is your girlfriend a convincing savant?
 
2008-05-17 10:06:08 PM  
ethics-gradient: That's your pretence not mine, and as I already said this is nothing to do with race it's a cultural issue. I never mentioned genocide and it's nothing to do with my points I raised

You should read up on what Australia did to try to solve its aborigine "problem", how it failed, and how they now have finally apologized for it's incredible, unethical, terrible wrong-headedness.

Then read up on various European nations doing similar things with gypsy children.
 
2008-05-17 10:09:32 PM  
flexflint: Obdicut: Hey, I was in the shower.
Obdicut's girlfriend: {sigh} Obdicut went to work

Is your girlfriend a convincing savant?


Good catch. A liar on the internet, no WAY!
 
2008-05-17 10:12:11 PM  
flexflint: Is your girlfriend a convincing savant?

You see, in that case, TCS blamed opinions that proved to be totally stupid on his "wife", and said that she'd done it to make him look bad. It was a laughable way of excusing himself from stupid statements.

In this case, my girlfriend posted once when I was in the shower, and then again after I'd gone to work. I take full responsibility for her posts, think she's correct in every fashion, and you can treat her statements as mine, if you like.

See the difference? TCS tried to pretend his wife had posted something so he could disassociate himself from it and save face (though it made him look like a retard.) I completely support and endorse everything my girlfriend said.

If you can't tell the difference between those situations, then I don't really know what to say.
 
2008-05-17 10:23:29 PM  
Everyone living near gypsies need to leave thalidomide tainted food out in the open.
They won't be able to steal after a generation; hell they won't be able to put their socks on.

/next problem
 
2008-05-17 10:28:22 PM  
Obdicut:what Australia did to try to solve its aborigine "problem" ... various European nations doing similar things with gypsy children.
Oh I already know about these events - being British there's quite a lot of cultural crossover between Europe and Australia here.

The mistakes of the past don't mean that we should ignore widespread and blatant criminal behaviour in the future.
If the problem is not addressed, laws are not enforced evenly and is not even allowed to be debated in public then sooner or later an extreme right wing political party will rise up on the issue and mob violence will break out....
And that's where we came in. Burying our heads in the sand does not work, social problems do not go away by ignoring them and stifling debate.
 
2008-05-17 10:45:29 PM  
Oh hi Obdicut! My boyfriend flexflint went to work because he's better at managing his priorities than I am, and I am still sitting here like a fool and reading this. You can tell it's not him because I am way more annoying and preachy. Or, if you find him annoying, I am a different kind of annoying.

Also, he asked me to tell you that your girlfriend posted more than two posts, because in one post she brings up the fact that she mentioned the thing about cancer and stuff before, and after that she posted another one. I have no idea what flexflint was actually talking about. He's the cutest thing I've ever met, but he can be like that sometimes {sigh}. See you tomorrow maybe!
 
2008-05-17 10:46:44 PM  
Obdicut: 40oz_A_Knight: If I learned one thing in the "Marine core" (snicker), it's that Fark significant others do not share logins.

Hey, I was in the shower. I've warned her it was against Fark rules.

however, unlike a certain "soldier", you'll notice that I didn't blame anything on her. I stand behind everything she said. So the situation isn't really analogous.

The experience of arguing in this thread has pretty much made her decide against getting her own login-- but I bet she gets sucked in eventually. Who could resist the brawny yet cerebral charm of Farkers?

On a side note, this is probably the most depressing Fark thread I've ever participated in.


dude, "you and your girlfriend" is really code for you being czar or proctologist iggy poop, right? considering how toolish you are? do you guys hang out on the weekends? Is there a meetup for totalfark tools?
 
2008-05-17 10:57:38 PM  
I think everyone hates the Roma. It's commonplace.
 
2008-05-17 11:20:34 PM  
Yes it is unfair to judge an individual based on their group, race, etc.. Judging the group is hardly unfair. I'm an asain guy in the US who travels to Europe on occasion. It is not unfair to say Roma have a much higher incidence of pick pocketing, valuing cheating others, etc..

I do not know what the solution. The problem is not European mistreatment of Roma. How do you change a culture? In 1900 a majority of Irish families in the US were single mothers with the fathers missing (no doubt drunk). Intermarriage solved that problem. But alas not a solution in this case.
 
2008-05-17 11:25:42 PM  
Oh jeeze. Okay, Obdicut's gf now has a fark account, myfriendNasha. Click on it, click on the URL, see her MySpace. (Yeah -- MySpace. Facebook. Necessary evil -- who cares?) Posting to commence in 24 hours.

It's real, okay? You have been hating on a real person, and not some poor dark-skinned person in a camp, either. Check out the URL, it's been there for awhile. Google-stalk, make fun, or whatever you have to do to get over the hypothesis that she's made up, then get back to "proving" why it's okay to hate and do violence to someone who's done the great injustice of having the "wrong" mitochondrial DNA. Cause that's what this is about, right? Blaming the individual for the "group's" behavior? Or were you confused about the consequences of burning down an entire camp?
 
2008-05-17 11:28:51 PM  
You mean the same country that sent a paratrooper detachment to Somalia and when accused of rape torture, and brutality of local women and children by the UN responded with "Who cares- they're just attractive and successful African-Americans"? That country?

How could anyone think they were arrogant arseholes?
 
2008-05-17 11:30:41 PM  
I met a gypsy girl once who was thirteen and being pimped out by her father. They're thieving mongrels(remember the armbreaking incident all over the news a couple years back?). I've never met anyone who went to Rome and didn't have problems with the gypsies.

I have a fairly modest proposal: processed meat. Saves on travel expenses and gives local butchers a boost! lot of gristle, though.

/seriously, gypsies suck. I'd put a suitable pic up, but I'd get banned.
 
2008-05-17 11:46:13 PM  
ethics-gradient: mea.culpa:Yeah, keep pretending that the "rational" way to deal with these problems of which you speak is the extermination of an ethnic minority.
That's your pretence not mine, and as I already said this is nothing to do with race it's a cultural issue. I never mentioned genocide and it's nothing to do with my points I raised.


I addressed the thread, you put yourself forward to speak for the thread, that wasn't my decision. Are you seriously going to pretend that even the majority of Roma-hating posts on here have been level-headed discussions on criminal enforcement? Reading through we find supports for the Italians that burned the camp, calls to rid Europe of the Roma, cries of solidarity with those that hate the whole group, recommendations of genocide of various seriousness. All of it shows a complete disregard for the Roma as human beings, viewing them only as a problem that would be better if they were all killed or driven off.

If you don't think that's the case, then by all means say so. Laws should be enforced, but vigilante justice in the form of ethnic intimidation is not law enforcement. Deporting hundreds of thousands of people, tens of thousands of whom have Italian passports is now law enforcement. Supporting those who call for these things, is not law enforcement.

I don't even really care what your specific opinion on this is. I only address you because you stepped forward from the thread. There is plenty said here that you can't spin as sane and rational, and yes; they suck.
 
2008-05-17 11:56:22 PM  
jst3p: Obdicut:

On a side note, this is probably the most depressing Fark thread I've ever participated in.

You must not pay attention, wait till someone famous dies.


What? Those threads are highly uplifting!
 
2008-05-18 12:14:21 AM  
/has been attacked by gypsies in Rome

Their entire culture is based around thievery

really
 
2008-05-18 12:17:23 AM  
moops: Gypsies are scum and thieves.

/been ripped off by them twice


Ya got proper farked then eh? Fark'n pikeys.
 
2008-05-18 12:26:02 AM  
cerberus9: fat4eyes: It's nice to see that people are keeping up thousand-year-old prejudices

I think part of the problem is that there are a lot of naive people who think that one day all the different creeds, cultures, and races of the world will one day sit around, hold hands, and sing "kumbaya" together.

It aint gonna happen. It just aint. The sooner people start to realize this, the sooner we can work towards reasonable compromises and find a way to tolerate each other.


methinks you're onto something there. All different cultures agreeing will lead to an averaging of ideas as well and a pretty boring humanity overall. Not to mention the lack of genetic diversity that could one day lead to our demise as a species. That would suck.
 
2008-05-18 12:29:45 AM  
I spent a lot of time in Greece when I was younger, fair amount of gypsies (or Albanians, whatever).

Truly awful bunch of people, when they're not destroying the beaches with their trash they're begging or thieving. A couple of our people got mugged, one had a carburetor thrown at his head (it missed, lucky for him).
 
2008-05-18 12:41:18 AM  
Nicotinus: JosephFinn: Hell, that was my first thought as well! Which means I watched Angel waaaaaaaay too much.

Well, I'm just glad I'm not the only one. Which means it's time for this:



Approves


No, Angelus, No!!!!!
 
2008-05-18 01:01:44 AM  
mea.culpa: ethics-gradient: mea.culpa:Yeah, keep pretending that the "rational" way to deal with these problems of which you speak is the extermination of an ethnic minority.
That's your pretence not mine, and as I already said this is nothing to do with race it's a cultural issue. I never mentioned genocide and it's nothing to do with my points I raised.

I addressed the thread, you put yourself forward to speak for the thread, that wasn't my decision. Are you seriously going to pretend that even the majority of Roma-hating posts on here have been level-headed discussions on criminal enforcement? Reading through we find supports for the Italians that burned the camp, calls to rid Europe of the Roma, cries of solidarity with those that hate the whole group, recommendations of genocide of various seriousness. All of it shows a complete disregard for the Roma as human beings, viewing them only as a problem that would be better if they were all killed or driven off.

If you don't think that's the case, then by all means say so. Laws should be enforced, but vigilante justice in the form of ethnic intimidation is not law enforcement. Deporting hundreds of thousands of people, tens of thousands of whom have Italian passports is now law enforcement. Supporting those who call for these things, is not law enforcement.

I don't even really care what your specific opinion on this is. I only address you because you stepped forward from the thread. There is plenty said here that you can't spin as sane and rational, and yes; they suck.


you had me at hello. oops, wait, you didn't say hello--but still I worked with Italians for a long time Dive Mastering for PADI and found the culture to be far more racist than I expected (send the American with the French hogs, they'll get along. The Portuguese and the American will know each other. The Americans are coming on the 25'th send the American with them and make sure he shares the tip) they said, thinking I didn't understand them. I got fired for not sharing tips.
 
2008-05-18 01:13:25 AM  
child_god: ...Millions of gypsies died in Hitler's ovens along with the Jews, and the Jewish folks in America didn't want any acknowledgement of this at the Holocoust memorial in Washington DC...


Can you show me any evidence to support the claim that the US Holocaust Museum does not acknowledge or provide information about the Gypsies, or that US Jews wished to prevent such information from being housed at the museum?

This is quite an allegation, and after doing a minimal amount of research (hint: try googling "holocaust museum dc gypsies"), I believe I can conclude that you're full of crap.
 
2008-05-18 01:35:53 AM  
FTA: "We never thought we'd see such images in Italy,"

umm yeah, the idea of Italian society pinning it's problems on a certain ethnic group and it's politicians demonizing this group publicly in order to pander to ethnic hatred... nope that's certainly never happened in any major global conflict.
WTF? am I the only one who thinks this should have had a "scary" caption?
 
2008-05-18 02:35:13 AM  
In Islamic countries, if you steal anything they only chop off one of your hands.

just saying.
 
2008-05-18 03:04:32 AM  
WOW! Italy and the Gypsies! I could write a farking ESSAY!

Italy has weird Medieval Laws on the books that allows Gypsies to have special CAMPS around every town, no matter how big or small, PARKING LOTS, sometimes, where the Gypsies are allowed to live.

Yet Gypsies are NOT allowed to WORK, because of PREJUDICE, so their only means of sustaining themselves is through BEGGING and STREET CRIME.

"Gli Italiani PRIMI!!!" "Italians FIRST!!!" That's the RULE in Italy.

I was in Torino, shopping for groceries in the Main Market, downtown and he wanted me to pick up a few things from the ASIAN Store. The POLIZIA and Carabinieri were all over that Market, but conspicuously ABSENT outside the Asian store. So the outside was SWARMING with Gypsies, begging. I got in and out of the Asian Store and they SWARMED OVER me.

As an American, nobody gave a shiat about me. Bystanders did NOTHING to stop the attack. Knowing about the Italian Gypsies, I put my hands deep into my pocket, where my WALLET was. This Gypsy woman comes up to me, begging in Italian, wearing a SARI, like an Indian woman. Underneath her skirt was a little 4 or 5-year-old Gypsy GIRL, feeling me up for my wallet. I pinched her tiny little hands like crazy and had to BULLDOZE my way through the crowd of Gypsies that descended on me, like a linebacker for the Philadelphia Eagles.

After I got away, every zipper on my backpack was open. But the Gypsies got NOTHING.
 
2008-05-18 03:12:10 AM  
sunsawed


Yet Gypsies are NOT allowed to WORK, because of PREJUDICE, so their only means of sustaining themselves is through BEGGING and STREET CRIME.


So what then explains their being thieves in every other country?


PS, I simply don't believe you that they can't work in Italy.

 
2008-05-18 03:16:02 AM  
Yeah. If you're an AMERICAN in Italy and you expect the Italian POLIZIA or the Italian PEOPLE to give a RAT'S ASS about YOU, THINK AGAIN! You're on YOUR OWN!
 
2008-05-18 04:12:21 AM  
Some disgusting comments here. Give your heads a shake.

Yes, anti-Roma sentiment seems to be the last refuge in Europe, I include the UK. People who would never drop the N-bomb seem to think Roma are fair game.
 
2008-05-18 07:28:40 AM  
Again and again people on both sides here try to characterise this as a "racial" issue, it is not it is a cultural one. The "racial" issue is a way of avoiding the real issues.
Either there are blithe comments that refer to all Gypsies / travellers / gitanos as "Roma" and those such as mea.culpa and obdicut who implicitly seem to be tarring all those who don't like antisocial behaviour as a racist.
On the other hand we have those, who lazily having identified Gypsies as a distinct race, call for them to be wiped out - and; No, mea.culpa I don't agree with that.

(Yes, I am aware that some "Gypsies" in some parts of Europe supposedly can be identified by their supposedly north Indian features, but not all even then and certainly not in the British Isles where they're white trash like the rest of us, the only difference is they live in caravans / trailers.)

You know who else saw the world in racial terms? Yeah, and look how that ended for him.
 
2008-05-18 07:30:48 AM  
trixter_nl: Ireland especially the south there is a larger anti-polish movement under the "they took our jobs" argument.

Complete and utter bullshiat.
 
2008-05-18 08:25:10 AM  
These threads are GREAT!
All you racist scum: Welcome to my ignore list.
 
2008-05-18 04:48:13 PM  
Unsung_Hero
MeanJean: http://www.cbc.ca/newsinreview/dec97/gypsies/gypsy.html

The CBC puts out PC propaganda. It's about as left wing as I can tolerate without throwing up.
Now, if you want to change my mind, show me a thorough study of the Roma in Europe. % 'known to the police', % nomadic, % with regular employment, % on government assistance, etc.


Although I am having trouble locating thorough studies of Roma in Europe (guess everyone would rather make assumptions about them instead of actually studying them), I did find some very interesting stats:
http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/info/EUR05/002/2006
Is this a good start, or is one of the most respected human rights organizations in the world not good enough for you either?
Try reading this too:
http://books.google.com/books?id=Ks0fe8jMNN8C&pg=PA135&lpg=PA135&dq=romany+housi ng&source=web&ots=TkDnE-Wktj&sig=w3t-jvbyJDGEP3x71-JDWpuJf90&hl=en

Not that anything I say is likey to change your mind...
pstudent12
Gypies have nothing to do with India since they do not speak any Indo-Aryan language.

http://books.google.com/books?id=RGqhKmylB4QC&pg=PA14&dq=romany+language+india&l r=&sig=bVkvMs7iEeC0EPxkxO9Ntm0Vp8A

O RLY?
 
2008-05-19 01:22:47 AM  
technicolor-misfit: I don't have any experience with gypsies, or really any first-hand experience with the Irish Travelers, but the Travelers have communities in Georgia near where I live in Alabama, and every year there is a slew of stories about the scams they pull.

I think a lot of people are missing the point, (especially the person up above talking about impoverished groups with no opportunity being frocecd to resort to crime) these aren't people with no opportunity who are forced to steal... Stealing and exploiting people is a point of cultural pride.

Think about some guy you've known who loves getting over on someone... complains in restaurants to get his meal free, borrows money or things with no intention of ever paying it back, shoplifts on a lark, lies for kicks, etc... not because he needs those things or because he can't pay for them, but because the sheer joy is in the act of 'besting' someone in a battle of wits or getting away with something...

That's what you have here, except it's not an individual, it's a full-fledged culture, an entire community for whom 'pulling one over' on someone is practically a religion. It's not a last resort, it's an achievement... skills to be proud of and cherished.

Back to the Travelers on the question of opportunity... Many (if not most) of their scams involve jobs, being hired to do work. The classic "seal your driveway" scam is the first that comes to mind. (spray it with used crankcase oil) These are jobs they could EASILY do legit and turn a profit and be reputable businessmen... These ARE opportunities.

The opportunities are what they exploit, because it's not about making a living, it's about getting over on someone. They don't want to be a part of the local culture. They don't want to integrate and become respectable members of the community. Typically they feel nothing but disdain for communities outside of their own. They simply want to fleece them. They hold them at bay. They want no part of them but to pick them clean.

And again, with the Travelers, it has nothing to do with the fact that they're Irish, and everything to do with the fact that they're Travelers. People have no problem with Irish in their communities, but they (rightfully) flip their shiat when a Traveler community is nearby.

As someone else said above... it's like Bloods and Crips. Flipping out because you suddenly found out a detachment of gang-bangers had set up shop in your neighborhood wouldn't make you racist... because it's not about their race, it's about the culture and affiliation they have adopted.


I know the thread is way over, but this is a great post
 
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