ACryer: indylaw:
The Normans spoke French and have the region of Normandy named after them. They were part Germanic, but also had significant cross-breeding with the Franks, the Visigoths, and the Celts. And since France as it's modernly conceived did not exist, I would say the Normans were as French as anyone else.


The Normans WERE Germanic-as were the Franks, Visigoths and partially the Gauls. Other then that-complete agreement.

They also had significant Roman stock as a result of conquering and intermarrying with/raping the residents of Roman settlements.

At any rate, it should be telling that they had a Romance language as opposed to one in the Germanic family. They had to have had significant cultural intermingling with the Romans and their descendants.

Also, did not know that the Celts were a "Germanic" people, although the Goths and Franks certainly were. I know that Celtic languages are considered a separate branch of the Indo-European family, distinct from Germanic and Romance languages. I'm not sure what significance the Germanic label has, other than they were all peoples associated with the barbarian territories known as Germania, and that they spoke languages with similar characteristics.

I know this is fark and and everything, but seriously what the hell kind of slideshow was that? Most of the descriptors weren't even complete sentences.

ThirdGenerationImbecile: Is it possible to get by learning, "I'm sorry that I'm an idiot, but I need help," in several languages and using a universal portable translator? Or are we going to be killed?

They are very nice in Central Europe, so do as you'd do anywhere else in the world... learn the words for 'please','thankyou' and 'can I have the bill'.

Oh, and learn how to read/pronounce those crazy vowel-heavy words, otherwise phrasebooks are useless.

Suicidal Writer: Rethin: Name me one war the French have won.

/not tied, won
//Napoleon got his ass kicked btw

Here is a list (new window)

That list sucks. FTA, "Not so much a victory BY France as a victory FOR it." Oh, ok, so that counts as a victory? The Battle of Puebla, aka Cinco de Mayo, in which the MEXICANS kicked France's ass isn't even listed.

Great list.

We toured in Europe, Turkey and Greece last year extensively, and as long as you are polite, people are great. I think that applies everywhere. And this wasn't a vacation tour, we're talking I was managing a musical group and all the staff, details, travel and technical. Sure problems came up from time to time, but were just as easy to solve overseas as touring here...as long as you could find those funky looking plugs that changed from town to town!

indylaw: . Sicilians are a mix of Italian, Greek, Moorish and Turkish.

approves

indylaw
Trying to type a people as one pure set of bloodlines is impossible...


Maybe today, but it was not all that hard in 1066. The Normans were not Franks they were Danes.

king cranium maximus IV: wsommerv

I always hear about how ungrateful the French are about WWII. But without the French, Americans would still be speaking . . . er, English.

- Yes, because Great Britain still has clutches over its empire to this day.
- The French entered the American Revolution when it damn well suited them, which was the very end. So, um, thanks for that few minutes of generosity.- Without the American Revolution, the Bourbons would have ruled France indefinitely. So while we should be thankful for the French support, they should be more thankful for it.
- What Great Britain sought to do with the American colonies was a smidge more benign than what Hitler viewed for France. (Not to mention the Kaiser's plans.) Just saying.

And they would say the same about our entrance into WWI at the very end.

Nothing about mistresses, hairy women, permeating body odor, or cheese eating surrender monkeys?

Americans have inherited their desire to bash and redicule the french from their cultural ancestors the English. The English were compensating for various things like being sort of conquered by frenchmen some time ago and forced to speak French. Same thing happened with the Anglo-Saxons, the Norse and the Romans before that. It is no excuse, but at least it explains the English language.

RubberFootMan: dittybopper: Then we had to go back just 26 years later and save their asses AGAIN.

Oh please - you are more intelligent than this.

Yeah, seriously. 1941 - 1918 = 23 years. Duh.

king cranium maximus IV:

- Without the American Revolution, the Bourbons would have ruled France indefinitely. So while we should be thankful for the French support, they should be more thankful for it.

I imagine, with the French Revolution occuring so soon after the American, that the Bourbons' days were number anyways. And rather than support the French Revolution, as Jefferson would have liked, we chickened out because of the cost, signed a non-aggression pact with England, and got entangled in a diplomatic clusterfark (see the XYZ affair) that escalated to open hostilities between French and American ships. So the French Revolution succeeded despite the United States, not because of it.

Not that the original French Revolution and Republic was much to brag about - mob brutality, widespread government purges, culminating in Napoleon's self-proclamation as Emperor. Vive la revolution!

Suicidal Writer: Rethin: Name me one war the French have won.

/not tied, won
//Napoleon got his ass kicked btw

Here is a list (new window)

Interesting that The Battle of the Plains of Abraham (wiki pops) is absent from that list. Probably the most significant French defeat in the 18th century.

Anyhoo, my brother-in-law is French and I've been to Paris a number of times. The famous French snottiness generally disappears if a) you're not American, and b) you make an attempt (however feeble) to speak French.

Flab: Flab: trian domination.

When cut & paste goes bad. Tonight at 9.

Thank God. I was confused as hell!

threedingers: Interesting that The Battle of the Plains of Abraham (wiki pops) is absent from that list. Probably the most significant French defeat in the 18th century.

Best quote: "With one deafening crash, the most perfect volley ever fired on a battlefield burst forth as from a single monstrous weapon."

Born_Again_Bavarian

And they would say the same about our entrance into WWI at the very end.

Correct. Doesn't make overflowing praise for the French role in the American Revolution any less incorrect.

indylaw

I imagine, with the French Revolution occuring so soon after the American, that the Bourbons' days were number anyways.

Well, maybe, though I'm sure if the American version fizzled the French one would have had momentum issues. And you wouldn't have the Lafayette factor, either.

Also, it wasn't too long after the French Revolution that they...friggin installed the monarchy once again.

And rather than support the French Revolution, as Jefferson would have liked, we chickened out because of the cost

A forgiveable sin. I'm not sure how a balkanized and fiscally wobbly country could have helped matters much in France.

Though, we're taught in hindsight that Jefferson >>> Hamilton on foreign policy matters.

signed a non-aggression pact with England, and got entangled in a diplomatic clusterfark (see the XYZ affair) that escalated to open hostilities between French and American ships.

Adams sucked as a president.

Yeah, I know a few French people and a few Parisians (they actually introduced themselves as Parisians -- ugh!) and the French say some of the same things about Americans and most of the stuff is wrong. Like Americans are red-necked flag wavers, eat lots of supersized fast food, drink crappy beer, and the women are overweight and ugly.

Sheesh! How far from the truth is THAT?

_{/ looks towards Canada's pants and really does wonder, "How far from the truth is that?"}

Reason enough to want to invade france...

Rethin: Name me one war the French have won.

/not tied, won
//Napoleon got his ass kicked btw

Just one name for you: Jean de Arc

Brits still cannot get over the fact that a 17 year old GIRL kicked their butts... ;-)

Rethin: Name me one war the French have won.

/not tied, won
//Napoleon got his ass kicked btw

And don't forget our good friends Asterix and Obelix - kept the Romans out too... kicked ass everywhere they went!!!

I spent 19 hours in Paris once. Had a fine time. The sammich-shop guys were friendly and made a decent sammich (wife did speak beginner's French to them). Every black woman I saw was stunning; every white woman was at least well-dressed. And half of the men who weren't at their jobs were right out of that "let them wait" UPS ad: dressed in black, unwashed, unshaven, and sullen-looking. It was pretty funny.

Rethin: Name me one war the French have won.

/not tied, won
//Napoleon got his ass kicked btw

Could have won WWII, if the British didn't chicken out.

I read an interesting book a few years ago by American military historian John Mosier, titled The Blitzkrieg Myth. His analysis of the German blitzkrieg across France in May 1940 was excellent, and one of the interesting findings was that the French Maginot Line strategy relied on the British Expeditionary Force to hold their left flank in Belgium. The French Army was right at the front fighting alongside the Dutch and the Belgians from the beginning, even holding the Germans to a standstill at several points. (See Battle of Hannut.) But the British didn't have a significant engagement with the Germans until Dunkirk, when they're all ready to leave. With their left flank exposed like that, the French couldn't do anything either except retreat.

The French also have a history of getting screwed over by their politicians (then again, who hasn't?). If Napoleon didn't have to scratch his itch by invading Russia, France would have dominated world politics in the 19th century instead of the British. If the French parliament hadn't voted to establish the Vichy Regime as their army was still fighting at the front, Nazi Germany might never have gone on to invade North Africa, the Balkans, and the Soviet Union.

Buying into stereotypes is for suckers.

Spoken like a typical Yank.

/We kid, we kid because we love!
//Typical Yank here

Flab: Sorry Cashew, she was taken off the market last week.

So what?
Just because she now got a full time job, it doesn't mean she can't/won't moonlight on the side.

Robo Beat: Suicidal Writer: TMBGfreak:
/And the wimminz are hot

Little known fact is that many French women love American accented French.

This is more or less true.


I was talking to a French girl the other day, and when I told her I was originally from the States, she was very surprised. I asked her why, and she said it was because I had absolutely no American accent.

Its been my experience that most of the "french" cliques are more accurately Parisian. There the French are the rude snobbish america-hating assholes everyone thinks of the French as being like. Out in the French countryside the people are marvelous.

Essentially its like judjing all Americans based on New Yorkers.

threedingers: Interesting that The Battle of the Plains of Abraham (wiki pops) is absent from that list. Probably the most significant French defeat in the 18th century.

You don't read so well, do you?
From that website:
" Battle of the Plains of Abraham - September 12-13, 1759
French General Louis-Joseph, Marquis de Montcalm leads his New French militia to defeat at the hands of the British led by General James Wolfe outside of Quebec City in what is today Canada. Both generals are mortally wounded in the fray. The defeat signals the beginning for the end for French control in North America."

/Has a MUCH larger problem with the French on this side of the ocean than the NATO-quitting surrender-monkeys over there
//Why didn't they just burn Quebec?

MizzouGuy: ...cheese eating surrender monkeys?

THIS

Digitalstrange: Robo Beat: Suicidal Writer: TMBGfreak:
/And the wimminz are hot

Little known fact is that many French women love American accented French.

This is more or less true.


I was talking to a French girl the other day, and when I told her I was originally from the States, she was very surprised. I asked her why, and she said it was because I had absolutely no American accent.

Its been my experience that most of the "french" cliques are more accurately Parisian. There the French are the rude snobbish america-hating assholes everyone thinks of the French as being like. Out in the French countryside the people are marvelous.

You obviously didn't read the second half of my post. The Française in question wasn't surprised because I was an American and didn't have an accent, she was surprised that I was an American who sounded like a Belgian. She seemed like a real sweetheart, too. I wish I had thought to ask for her number.

Anyway, I've lived here in Paris long enough to feel qualified to speak on the matter (long enough to ask for French citizenship, if I so chose), and I have to say that in my experience the people here are quite kind, generous, and willing to bend over backwards to help you if you're in trouble. That is, of course, if you show at least a little bit of politeness and use good manners. I mean, we're talking about the country that invented the word etiquette: one's behavior in public is taken very seriously here. If someone here treated you rudely, it's probably because you yourself were being a dick and didn't realize it. Like I said: Parisians have little patience for the rude and the stupid, because we see so many of them from all over the world.

As for anti-Americanism, I'll grant that they're not terribly enamored with the present US administration (though most French feel much the same about their own government, at any rate), but at least they have the sense to make a mental separation between the American people and their government. None of that embarrassing "Freedom Fries" horseshiat.

/French Fries aren't even French anyways!

I've been living in Limoges (southwest France) for about 9 months now, and love it. I'm learning the language, and joined a sport club with one member who speaks pretty good English, otherwise it's basically French all the time and everywhere (except at home....my wife is fluent in English). The people are great, the food is excellent, weather is generally nice. It's different sure, but cool all the same.

Took awhile to get used to driving here (motorcyclists here would be dead in a week if they rode like that in Florida), and it seems that there's a demonstration of some kind about once a month, but basically everyone's laid-back.

TwistedFark: the ones that are jerks are huge jerks.

i can attest to this.

If someone here treated you rudely, it's probably because you yourself were being a dick and didn't realize it. Like I said: Parisians have little patience for the rude and the stupid, because we see so many of them from all over the world.

Ahhh, the 2 wrongs make a right philosophy. We are only dicks to foreigners because they deserve it eh?

As you say youve lived there a long time and are accustomed to the behavior. Go to the Bronx and what passes for normal behaviour there would be pretty obnoxious in most of the rest of the country. My ex-wife from So. California had a tough time adapting to the slower pace of life in South Carolina and Georgia. I myself had to learn to speak slower to be more easily understood when I came back from living in So Cal for several years. I have a friend whos a NY Sicilian, lived in SC for 20 years and you can still tell hes from NYC after 3 words from his mouth. And all of this is from the same country.

The whole "were rude because people from different countries all over the world dont know how to behave exactly as we would wish them to because we are ever so much more civilized than them" is exactly the kind of snobbish asshattedness we are discussing.

Ive lived in a number of tourist towns and the locals in most of them just expect tourists to be stupid and occasionally rude. They ignore them for the most part, deal with them patiently when they must and hide in locals only spots to avoid them for the most part.

I visited Paris last year with my girl and had been warned frequently about the rudeness and bad service we'd face.

What a load of horse shiat. I've travelled to quite a few Euro cities and Paris is without doubt the most achingly beautiful beautiful city I've ever seen. I'm not just talking aesthetics - the people, the food, the drink, the atmosphere - perfect. Coming back to a dull, grey, English city has never been so hard.

I've never understood where this stupid anti-French sentiment comes from - the UK could learn some serious lessons from our continental cousins.

I love you frenchies!!

dittybopper: wsommerv: nashBridges: Rethin: Name me one war the French have won.

American Revolution?

THIS.

I always hear about how ungrateful the French are about WWII. But without the French, Americans would still be speaking . . . er, English. We're the ingrates. Or at least we're even and should shut up about the World Wars.

First, you forgot the Quasi War. France only helped us during the Revolution because it benefitted the French Monarchy at that time.

Second, any blood debt owed by the US to France was paid back in full in 1917-1918.

Then we had to go back just 26 years later and save their asses AGAIN.

Yeah... about that: America really didn't get involved in the first World War until the very last minute and even then didn't accomplish a terrible lot. The French took a heavy hit, but they dished out a lot as well. If you want to thank anyone for "saving" them, I'd suggest the British.

Suicidal Writer: Apathy does set it, understandably. I think this is happening pretty much globally now. In Germany, there appears to be growing numbers of people fed up with feeling guilty about the past. The Japanese don't seem to be obsessed with WW2.

I think this is a good thing, really.
It is like the equivalent of "moving on" after a relationship. I find it rather ridiculous when Americans bring up WW2 continually, as if it is some sort of excuse why we should eternally be able to do whatever we want. And you're right, it is strange that so many people who weren't alive anywhere close to that long ago bring it up, as if it affected them personally.

This is an especially good reason why Germans shouldn't continue to feel guilty -- their leadership did something terrible a long time ago, but generations have been born since then who have had nothing to do with that. They're a peaceful, prosperous country now and they deserve to have the weight off their shoulders. The same with Japan, which is also a prosperous and innovative society with an amazingly low crime rate (even if they do have tentacle porn).

Anyway, yeah. I think we SHOULD let it go.
It should be about how we act now, not how much we can milk out of a war we participated in six decades ago.

Triaxis: Suflig: It's funny. They resorted to guerilla tactics to fight instead of fullon attacking of Nazis. They eventually "won" too, thanks to their allies.
You libs must be proud that the same tactics will defeat us. Shame on you Keith Olberrman.
Our boys are dying in the sand out there, you must be thrilled.

You bet your ass they are. Children are being taught from grade school up that we're in the wrong and pricks like Kieth Olberman are just another cog in the anti-US (while a republican is in office) propaganda machine that feeds young minds. Tou can toss Jon Stewart in to the pile of useless celebs that need to DIAF too.

All that footage of our Hero Leadership lying and contradicting themselves is a real biatch.

BTW, has anyone ever offered an apology to France for that whole Iraq WMD / they warned in-advance that they would vote against invasion -as is their Right, were we to submit a "resolution" in the UN (aka Colin Powell's "FairyTale Palace") Security Council, which we didn't need afterall anyway .... thing?? Or do we still HATE them for being sooo ... French?
???
I'll put Stewart's guest list up-againt anyone's
Daily Show guests 2008
May 5 Sen Harry Reid
May 6 Fareed Zakaria
May 7 John McCain
May 12 Douglas Feith
May 13 Bill Moyers