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(Telegraph)   Upon being confronted by the facts, various cliches about the French surrender   (telegraph.co.uk) divider line 152
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17117 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 May 2008 at 7:04 AM (6 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2008-05-15 08:11:54 AM  
Robo Beat: Little known fact is that many French women love American accented French.

This is more or less true.


Man, I wish I spoke French now.
 
2008-05-15 08:15:38 AM  
Gawdzila: There are always cultural differences that will seem strange or inhospitable to outsiders, even if they are not meaning to be so.

Yesterday I was working alongside a Canadian and a Spaniard. Even though they've both lived in the UK for years, I still spent half the day answering questions about it.
 
2008-05-15 08:15:50 AM  
I have to mention this anytime French cliches come up - I visited France (Paris, no less) 10 years ago and I thought the people there were really nice. Not the least bit rude. Yeah, the French are very proud of their culture and if you go over to their country and demand they speak English to you...they'll rightly treat you like shiat. Try to speak the language, they'll be forgiving.

Oh, and TFA was layme

/merde!
 
2008-05-15 08:18:23 AM  
Gawdzila:
As the article points out, this is not true either.
The French have many government-funded and maintained museums and monuments to all the Allied contributions in the War, US included.


Apathy does set it, understandably. I think this is happening pretty much globally now. In Germany, there appears to be growing numbers of people fed up with feeling guilty about the past. The Japanese don't seem to be obsessed with WW2. I don't know what is going on in Russia. It seems that it's mostly Americans that are obsessively vocal about remembering the war. It's a bit weird since it appears to come from people who wern't even born until after 1945.

If America wants to play the "you better be grateful card," then that should be focused on South Korea, a place where feces is often thrown at our soldiers, and a place that constructed it's capital within 50 miles of the 38th and can be hit with 500,000 artillery shells within 24 hours.
 
2008-05-15 08:19:28 AM  
My new wife and I honeymooned in Paris in March, and I was pleasantly surprised to discover that the great majority of the French that we encountered generally liked Americans. They just seemed confused as to why we elected George Bush twice.

The women are definately hot. Even the ugly ones seems sexy because of the way they talk. The myth that the women have hairy armpits, legs, etc. must have come about from the way they were 20-30 years ago, as I did not see anyone like that.

//have to go back
 
2008-05-15 08:20:38 AM  
The Allan Ball: Try to speak the language, they'll be forgiving.

you don't even need to try to speak the language. Just don't be a loud asshole and act nice.

The only rude French people I ever met were at the airport and at the Eiffel Tower. Everyone else I met kicked ass.
 
2008-05-15 08:21:35 AM  
All I know about the French is that they invented ice cream and the blow job. Vive la France!
 
2008-05-15 08:23:15 AM  
Sorry Cashew, she was taken off the market last week.

actu-videos.lejdd.fr
 
2008-05-15 08:23:55 AM  
Do people from the "old world" even visit here? Last time I checked, they kept getting killed at our rest stops.

/stop getting out of your rent a car to pee wearing lederhosen.
 
2008-05-15 08:25:59 AM  
Flab: Sorry Cashew, she was taken off the market last week.

Were you hiding in the bushes?
 
2008-05-15 08:30:16 AM  
When my boy was in high school, we hosted a French exchange student. My wife had to order him to shower every few days. Be-frikken-Oh! Other than that, nice kid.
 
2008-05-15 08:30:47 AM  
RubberFootMan: Flab: Sorry Cashew, she was taken off the market last week.

Were you hiding in the bushes?


I wish.
 
2008-05-15 08:31:58 AM  
OkieFromTulsa: My new wife and I honeymooned in Paris in March, and I was pleasantly surprised to discover that the great majority of the French that we encountered generally liked Americans. They just seemed confused as to why we elected George Bush twice.

The women are definately hot. Even the ugly ones seems sexy because of the way they talk. The myth that the women have hairy armpits, legs, etc. must have come about from the way they were 20-30 years ago, as I did not see anyone like that.

//have to go back


Repeat as necessary.
 
2008-05-15 08:34:32 AM  
Flab: RubberFootMan: Flab: Sorry Cashew, she was taken off the market last week.

Were you hiding in the bushes?

I wish.


fap-rustle-fap-rustle-fap-rustle-fap-rustle-fap-rustle-fap-ouch.
 
2008-05-15 08:35:17 AM  
oldebayer: Here is one that is going to be hard to lay to rest: "The French don't care what they do say, actually, so long as they pronounce it properly."

/Demi-obscure?


at least you can't hear them down in soho square, dropping h's everywhere
 
2008-05-15 08:37:44 AM  
Eutychus: Rethin: Name me one war the French have won.

/not tied, won
//Napoleon got his ass kicked btw

Um, the Norman Conquest?

/dual national British/French
//getting a kick out of these replies, etc.


Sorry, wrong, but thanks for playing.

Norman from North Man where Danes.
 
2008-05-15 08:42:12 AM  
nashBridges: Rethin: Name me one war the French have won.

American Revolution?



Pity they lost the French one.
 
2008-05-15 08:43:32 AM  
Dubya's_Coke_Dealer: OkieFromTulsa: My new wife and I honeymooned in Paris in March, and I was pleasantly surprised to discover that the great majority of the French that we encountered generally liked Americans. They just seemed confused as to why we elected George Bush twice.

The women are definately hot. Even the ugly ones seems sexy because of the way they talk. The myth that the women have hairy armpits, legs, etc. must have come about from the way they were 20-30 years ago, as I did not see anyone like that.

//have to go back

Repeat as necessary.


Seconded... and keep in mind that french woman will do just about anything if given enough motivation in the sack.

...they are.. VERY... giving in bed
 
2008-05-15 08:45:41 AM  
dittybopper: nashBridges: Rethin: Name me one war the French have won.

American Revolution?

Pity they lost the French one.


Didn't they tend to have one every few years?
 
a7u
2008-05-15 08:46:25 AM  
I'm an American working for a U.S. firm in the U.S. My company is a minority partner in a consortium whose major partner is French, so I work for French bosses. They're jackasses. They're secretive, arrogant, lie a lot (including filing false environmental reports with a gov't agency), and constantly fret over the cost of paperclips while the main effort of the consortium is bleeding money in tanker-truck volumes.
 
2008-05-15 08:46:43 AM  
Flab: Sorry Cashew, she was taken off the market last week.

Well, son of a putain, that's the worst news I've heard all week. :(
 
2008-05-15 08:50:09 AM  
Suflig: It's funny. They resorted to guerilla tactics to fight instead of fullon attacking of Nazis. They eventually "won" too, thanks to their allies.

You libs must be proud that the same tactics will defeat us. Shame on you Keith Olberrman.

Our boys are dying in the sand out there, you must be thrilled.


Anyone out there "dying in the sand" is doing so because they want to. No one is out there fighting against their will and no is defending anyones "freedom" here at home.

Reality can be a real mofo.
 
2008-05-15 08:51:25 AM  
The Allan Ball: I have to mention this anytime French cliches come up - I visited France (Paris, no less) 10 years ago and I thought the people there were really nice. Not the least bit rude. Yeah, the French are very proud of their culture and if you go over to their country and demand they speak English to you...they'll rightly treat you like shiat. Try to speak the language, they'll be forgiving.

SO MUCH THIS. Paris is a real city, not Disney World, and its inhabitants are not here to accomodate and entertain you. We have jobs and families, problems and concerns and lives of our own, so you'll understand why we, if we're not part of the miniscule portion of the population involved in the tourism trade, are rather indifferent towards whether or not you're having a good vacation. We hope you are, but if you aren't, we don't lose much sleep over it.

When I first moved here, I was quite amazed at how generous and kind my neighbors were, simply because I had bothered to learn how to speak in their language before I showed up. Generally speaking, Parisians are glad to help someone who needs it, but we don't really tolerate jerks - just because you're on vacation doesn't mean that you can leave your manners at home. If you were back home in your town, and someone walked up to you and started barking at you in some other language, how do you think you'd respond?



/and stop standing on the left-hand-side of the escalators in the Métro stations, mouthbreathers!
//hates missing his train because of morons who have never seen a métro before
 
2008-05-15 08:51:41 AM  
Suicidal Writer: Rethin: Name me one war the French have won.

/not tied, won
//Napoleon got his ass kicked btw

Here is a list (new window)


Um.

Battle of Gergovia - 52 B.C.


The Gauls lost that one-Vercingatorix(spelling) was taken back to Rome as a prisoner-and later murdered at J Ceasar's orders.
 
2008-05-15 08:53:31 AM  
wsommerv: nashBridges: Rethin: Name me one war the French have won.

American Revolution?

THIS.

I always hear about how ungrateful the French are about WWII. But without the French, Americans would still be speaking . . . er, English. We're the ingrates. Or at least we're even and should shut up about the World Wars.


First, you forgot the Quasi War. France only helped us during the Revolution because it benefitted the French Monarchy at that time.

Second, any blood debt owed by the US to France was paid back in full in 1917-1918.

Then we had to go back just 26 years later and save their asses AGAIN.
 
2008-05-15 08:57:39 AM  
I have spent a week in Paris twice - once during 9/11. Every French person was gracious and kind.. It's a relief when you can't get a flight out after 9/11, and the hotel manager says "It's ok, we are full but I have a room that my relatives use when they visit, you can stay there until the planes fly again".
 
2008-05-15 08:58:17 AM  
dittybopper: Then we had to go back just 26 years later and save their asses AGAIN.

Oh please - you are more intelligent than this.
 
2008-05-15 08:58:45 AM  
Robo Beat
Generally speaking, Parisians are glad to help someone who needs it, but we don't really tolerate jerks - just because you're on vacation doesn't mean that you can leave your manners at home.

Exactly!! My wife and I discovered that if you approach anyone, and you first say "Bon Jour", and politely try to ask directions, order a meal etc. in FRENCH, they feel compelled to try to help you, even if they don't know your language.

\\ I tried not to be an "Ugly American"
\\ Seemed to help
 
2008-05-15 09:01:29 AM  
TMBGfreak: Meh, French bashing is always fun, but some people take it far to seriously. I've never left North America, but everyone I've met from France is generally awesome.

I spent a number of years in Europe and I get annoyed by people who generalize about the French -- or Germans, or Italians, or whoever. The culture, shared history, and "regional psychology" in, say, Normandy, is quite different from that on the Cote d'Azure, . . . though, admittedly, not as much in the TV/Internet age as when I was there, in the 1950s & '60s. Sicilians are quite different people than Milanese, as both will quickly inform you. I'm sure folks in Bangor, Maine wouldn't want to be lumped in with people from New Orleans or Laredo.
 
2008-05-15 09:05:51 AM  
OkieFromTulsa: Robo Beat
Generally speaking, Parisians are glad to help someone who needs it, but we don't really tolerate jerks - just because you're on vacation doesn't mean that you can leave your manners at home.

Exactly!! My wife and I discovered that if you approach anyone, and you first say "Bon Jour", and politely try to ask directions, order a meal etc. in FRENCH, they feel compelled to try to help you, even if they don't know your language.

\\ I tried not to be an "Ugly American"
\\ Seemed to help


Thats true of every non-English speaking country I've been to. Simply attempting to speak their native language, no matter how bad you butcher it, almost always results in a very positive reply from the local you are speaking to. The act of being a gracious visitor who is trying to learn the local culture goes a very long way.

Americans and French also seem to be at odds because we're more alike than we want to believe. Culturally, we have more in common with the French than we do the English.
 
2008-05-15 09:06:26 AM  
OkieFromTulsa: Exactly!! My wife and I discovered that if you approach anyone, and you first say "Bon Jour", and politely try to ask directions, order a meal etc. in FRENCH, they feel compelled to try to help you, even if they don't know your language.

I think more respect is given if you at least attempt to learn basic phrases as well, at least that was the gist I got during my short time there.

It helped that I had just finished 4 years of french though, so I had that going for me.

"Plus lent, si vu plait. Je sais seulement du francais" become a repeat many many many times.

/and even then I likely got the grammar wrong above
//its been many years gimme a break
 
2008-05-15 09:06:58 AM  
Every cliche in history is rooted in some truth. Every single one. We need to lose some of the hyper-sensitivity.

/lose
//loose
///sorry, pet peeve.
 
2008-05-15 09:07:46 AM  
DontBeStupid: Eutychus: Rethin: Name me one war the French have won.

/not tied, won
//Napoleon got his ass kicked btw

Um, the Norman Conquest?

/dual national British/French
//getting a kick out of these replies, etc.

Sorry, wrong, but thanks for playing.

Norman from North Man where Danes.


Trying to type a people as one pure set of bloodlines is impossible. Every nation on Earth, even the ones drawn up early by the Europeans, has a broad mix of lineal backgrounds, even if the people have identified themselves as a particular nationality for as long as the family can remember.

If you're Irish, it's almost certain that you have Norman, Viking, and Anglo "blood." Same with the English. A large portion of people that consider themselves solidly Spanish have Moorish, Basque and French bloodlines. Sicilians are a mix of Italian, Greek, Moorish and Turkish. Romanians, although they are among Slavic peoples, also have a large degree of Roman ancestry, and a Romance language.

Europe, like the rest of the world, has warred with, traded with, and farked itself to such a degree that most ethnic groups have very little actual meaning or homogeneity. Even peoples that are considered ethnic "outsiders," like the Jews, had significant enough interbreeding with surrounding populations that a large portion of the German population pre-War had some Jewish ancestry.

The only country in "Europe" with a relatively stagnant genotype is Iceland, which is so isolated that their family trees look more like spiderwebs. But even the Icelanders come from Irish and Norwegian ancestries.

The Normans spoke French and have the region of Normandy named after them. They were part Germanic, but also had significant cross-breeding with the Franks, the Visigoths, and the Celts. And since France as it's modernly conceived did not exist, I would say the Normans were as French as anyone else.

Hell, the current royal family of Britain is more German (Saxon) than English, and the imperial house of Japan is Korean. We're humans. We'll fark and conquer anything that moves. The rest is just labels and generalizations.
 
2008-05-15 09:13:14 AM  
RubberFootMan: dittybopper: Then we had to go back just 26 years later and save their asses AGAIN.

Oh please - you are more intelligent than this.



No I'm not.
 
2008-05-15 09:14:09 AM  
TwistedFark: TMBGfreak: Meh, French bashing is always fun, but some people take it far to seriously. I've never left North America, but everyone I've met from France is generally awesome.

/And the wimminz are hot

I have left North America (living in the arse end of the world currently), and honestly - French people are kinda ok, but the ones that are jerks are huge jerks.

/And the wimminz are kind of hairy in the snatch/butt crack region.


Not to mention the underarm and leg regions too....
 
2008-05-15 09:14:30 AM  
Flab: Sorry Cashew, she was taken off the market last week.

Whaaaaaaah!! Come back Mellisa! Come back! Whaaaaa! Fark.com Loves you!




\What a waste, a beautiful chic like that?
\\And who is that creep marrying her anyway, what does he want?
\\must be the beer talking.
\\\I'll be in my bunk!
 
2008-05-15 09:19:45 AM  
dittybopper: Oh please - you are more intelligent than this.

No I'm not.


I've been hustled by you before.
 
2008-05-15 09:21:56 AM  
Empty Signal Gray: Every cliche in history is rooted in some truth. Every single one. We need to lose some of the hyper-sensitivity.

/lose
//loose
///sorry, pet peeve.


So Jews really do kidnap Christian babies and use their blood in mockeries of the Last Supper? And Blacks are out to get the white women?

/just saying
//sometimes the cliches are based on pure bullshiat.
 
2008-05-15 09:23:03 AM  
indylaw: And Blacks are out to get the white women?

Where the white wimmin at?
 
2008-05-15 09:25:01 AM  
indylaw:
The Normans spoke French and have the region of Normandy named after them. They were part Germanic, but also had significant cross-breeding with the Franks, the Visigoths, and the Celts. And since France as it's modernly conceived did not exist, I would say the Normans were as French as anyone else.


The Normans WERE Germanic-as were the Franks, Visigoths and partially the Gauls. Other then that-complete agreement.
 
2008-05-15 09:26:36 AM  
indylaw: sometimes the cliches are based on pure bullshiat.

Don't confuse cliches with propaganda.
 
2008-05-15 09:29:05 AM  
The Allan Ball: Try to speak the language, they'll be forgiving.

I found this to be true in almost every country when I lived in Europe (several decades ago). I could flounder around in French, German, and Italian, and I remember shopkeepers in small villagers everywhere who would run next door and bring back someone better versed in English to help figure out what I wanted to say. Just making the effort put them firmly on my side.

/OTOH, in Japan they just stand and stare at you
 
2008-05-15 09:31:08 AM  
mksmith: /OTOH, in Japan they just stand and stare at you

It is the same in Wales.

When you leave they go back to speaking in English.
 
2008-05-15 09:32:06 AM  
a7u: I'm an American working for a U.S. firm in the U.S. My company is a minority partner in a consortium whose major partner is French, so I work for French bosses. They're jackasses. They're secretive, arrogant, lie a lot (including filing false environmental reports with a gov't agency), and constantly fret over the cost of paperclips while the main effort of the consortium is bleeding money in tanker-truck volumes.

That's management. Managers aren't humans.

/universal
 
2008-05-15 09:32:59 AM  
RubberFootMan: indylaw: sometimes the cliches are based on pure bullshiat.

Don't confuse cliches with propaganda.


Don't try your old Jedi lawyer mind tricks on me! Propaganda, if believed (as those two tidbits were/are), becomes cliche. Sometimes the cliches/stereotypes/whatever are born in slander, though more often they are based on observation. Besides, many of the negative stereotypes (or cliches) the English have of the French are probably rooted in propaganda, as the two were enemies for centuries.
 
2008-05-15 09:33:12 AM  
wsommerv

I always hear about how ungrateful the French are about WWII. But without the French, Americans would still be speaking . . . er, English.

- Yes, because Great Britain still has clutches over its empire to this day.
- The French entered the American Revolution when it damn well suited them, which was the very end. So, um, thanks for that few minutes of generosity.
- Without the American Revolution, the Bourbons would have ruled France indefinitely. So while we should be thankful for the French support, they should be more thankful for it.
- What Great Britain sought to do with the American colonies was a smidge more benign than what Hitler viewed for France. (Not to mention the Kaiser's plans.) Just saying.
 
2008-05-15 09:39:12 AM  
Additionally, the times I've been to France, I really haven't noticed 'tudes one way or the other. The rudeness is overstated, as is the friendliness. It is what it is.
 
2008-05-15 09:41:43 AM  
mksmith
I found this to be true in almost every country when I lived in Europe (several decades ago). I could flounder around in French, German, and Italian, and I remember shopkeepers in small villagers everywhere who would run next door and bring back someone better versed in English to help figure out what I wanted to say. Just making the effort put them firmly on my side.

/OTOH, in Japan they just stand and stare at you


Or, people come out of nowhere to give you umbrellas when you get caught in the rain.
 
2008-05-15 09:41:46 AM  
Born_Again_Bavarian: Americans and French also seem to be at odds because we're more alike than we want to believe. Culturally, we have more in common with the French than we do the English.

I live in south Louisiana. During the abrupt rise in anti-French rhetoric in the U.S. following the invasion of Iraq (because they dared to follow their own foreign policy imperatives), it was pretty muted down here -- even though (outside of certain parts of New Orleans) local politics is highly conservative. Acadians haven't forgotten the Grande Derangement (more than two centuries ago, now) and Brits have never found much favor hereabouts. Torn by the necessity of joining Bush in praising Tony Blair and making jingoistic "frog" jokes, most people around here just kept their mouths shut.
 
2008-05-15 09:44:10 AM  
Slight Threadjack

Mrs. Imbecile, the FourthGenerationImbecilies, and I will be living in Hungary for 6 months in late 2009. Any Hungarian I am able to pick up (which will be very little...math, got it...languages [including my own sometimes], not so much) will be of no help when traveling in western Europe (languages are far too different).

Is it possible to get by learning, "I'm sorry that I'm an idiot, but I need help," in several languages and using a universal portable translator? Or are we going to be killed?
 
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