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(Reason Magazine)   One of the worst railroadings in history, courtesy of the War on Drugs. That's some really fine police work there, Lou   (reason.com) divider line 421
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40465 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 May 2008 at 6:30 PM   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2008-05-08 09:23:31 PM
In fact, someone scratched out "crack cocaine" and hand-wrote in "methamphetamine" on the type-written warrant

The guy must have been white. Looks like the bumbling office boy photocopied the black-guy warrant by mistake.
 
2008-05-08 09:35:02 PM
King Something: Horrible. Just plain horrible.

Anyone who thinks we are not a police state yet needs to read this.


This is why I dont understand why people biatch about the homeland security department and the act passed by congress, it was all fluff. Most of those rights were given up years ago as part of the bullshiat war on drugs.

Also why does any police force need a paramilitary unit?

They spend tens of thousands of dollars to bust one guy with $1000 worth of drugs/guns and say its a success, if that was business it would be broke.

If you people really want to protest something then protest the war on drugs, it drains more money since its inception than a war.
 
2008-05-08 09:43:13 PM
Quick question:

Who said this?

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
 
2008-05-08 09:44:00 PM
Scree: "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

The guy on the $100 bill, duh.
 
2008-05-08 09:44:42 PM
Scree: Quick question:

Who said this?

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."


Um, you? Just a couple minutes ago?
 
2008-05-08 09:45:29 PM
Actually, Ron, there's a bit of debate about that (I'm not American, but I'm guessing you meant Franklin.)
 
2008-05-08 09:47:11 PM
baka-san: I honestly believe the majority of cops are good guys doing a sometimes very hard job.

Then there are these lowlife tampon licker's.

it's kinda like being a gun owner, a small % of them make everybody look bad.


Very true. Laws are made for the worst in society, and the people whom enforce them sometimes are no better than the jerks they're supposed to protect you from.
 
2008-05-08 09:47:13 PM
Scree: Actually, Ron, there's a bit of debate about that (I'm not American, but I'm guessing you meant Franklin.)

Yeah, from my understanding, there's no good source for it being Franklin. Regardless, it's true and pithy.
 
2008-05-08 09:50:31 PM
YixilTesiphon: Yeah, from my understanding, there's no good source for it being Franklin. Regardless, it's true and pithy.

Hell, let's just attribute it to Jefferson. He said so much other great sh*t, why the hell not?
 
2008-05-08 09:52:37 PM
That's truly messed up.

/for reals
 
2008-05-08 09:57:42 PM
pedrop357: I'll trade you a month of totalfark for your newsletter.

why thank you good sir.
 
2008-05-08 09:58:34 PM
does not approve

www.chimneyrockpark.com
 
2008-05-08 10:07:46 PM
I wonder if the same band of hillbillies responsible for this railroading also brought us the West Memphis Three...
 
2008-05-08 10:09:26 PM
You know who else hated drug busts gone bad?

www.port.hu

/I can't be the first to refrence this in here.
//Who's not disapointed in pictures of this?
///The Monks are getting worried now.
 
2008-05-08 10:15:23 PM
I'm sending the dude $20 on general principle.
 
2008-05-08 10:27:00 PM
Is it legal to shoot a cop who breaks into your home before he identifies himself?

/somewhat sexist
//perhaps we should have female swat members?...
 
2008-05-08 10:30:27 PM
This is why I shiat myself laughing every time I hear that a cop got killed in the line of duty.
 
2008-05-08 10:35:59 PM
mobombhead: Well, he deserved to be shot. He pointed a gun at a cop. The cops would have no way of knowing it was 'broken'.

He was asleep, and they broke into his house without warning.

They're damn lucky (as is he) that the gun was broken. He would have been well within his right to fire.
 
2008-05-08 10:37:00 PM
It seems nowadays if your pet is seen in a window without a collar and pet license that is justification enough for a no knock warrant.

It is quite frightening the impunity with which the (too numerous to list) LEOs operate.

I would rather live in a free society than a drug free society.
 
2008-05-08 10:44:05 PM
Time to buy a gun.

/a working one
 
2008-05-08 10:46:13 PM
EggSniper: Is it legal to shoot a cop who breaks into your home before he identifies himself?

/somewhat sexist
//perhaps we should have female swat members?...


you're not supposed to shoot until you know exactly what/who you're shooting at. so even with no announcement, you should look and see that it's the pigs.

and shooting a cop in uniform is a bad idea. a really bad idea.
 
2008-05-08 10:47:20 PM
This is why drugs should be treated as a medical issue. Drug addicts only hurt themselves, and it makes no sense to destroy their lives even further by locking them up in jail. This only derails any sort of career they once had, and almost guarantees they'll live a life of crime. That is, *if* they get out of jail.

Here in CA, the feds rolled in and arrested people who ran a medical marijuana coop. They aren't even allowed to bring up in court that it was entirely legal under the state laws, and they might get *life* in prison for providing cancer patients with pot.

/Here's hoping for jury nullification.
 
2008-05-08 10:54:40 PM
jonshep: So this guy does have a drug charge pending but its just one I think? I guess DELV is delivery but POSS is def. possession. So the police must of found something to charge him with possession. not sure about MAN... Maybe manufacture? Meth is a commonly manufactured drug. I found charges like this all over google with different parts of it removed so this is not a generic charge, it means they suspect him of all 3 below. so what was he in possession of? Reason magazine, a Farker found this shiat yet you couldn't? And this is why i HATE this new emotional journalist bullshiat. Give me a REAL researched story with SEVERAL sources on BOTH sides and none of your opinion or GTFO. Funny part is I dont think these people even know how to research anymore.

"Deliver" or "delivery" means the actual, constructive, or attempted transfer from one (1) person to another of a controlled substance or counterfeit substance in exchange for money or anything of value, whether or not there is an agency relationship;

(16) (A) "Manufacture" means the production, preparation, propagation, compounding, conversion, or processing of a controlled substance, either directly or indirectly by extraction from a substance of natural origin, or independently by means of chemical synthesis, or by a combination of extraction and chemical synthesis.
(B) "Manufacture" includes any packaging or repackaging of a controlled substance or labeling or relabeling of a controlled substance's container.
(C) However, "manufacture" does not include the preparation or compounding of a controlled substance by an individual for his or her own use

(13) (A) "Drug" means a substance:
(i) Recognized as a drug in the official United States Pharmacopoeia, official Homeopathic Pharmacopoeia of the United States, official National Formulary, or any supplement to any of them;
(ii) Intended for use in the diagnosis, cure, mitigation, treatment, or prevention of disease in humans or animals;
(iii) Other than food intended to affect the structure or any function of the body of humans or animals; and
(iv) Intended for use as a component of any article specified in subdivisions (13)(A)(i), (ii), or (iii) of this section.
(B) "Drug" does not include a device or its components, parts, or accessories;
(C) In determining whether an object is "drug paraphernalia", a court or other authority shall consider, in addition to any other logically relevant factor, the following:
(i) A statement by an owner or by anyone in control of the object concerning its use;
(ii) A prior conviction, if any, of an owner or of anyone in control of the object under any state or federal law relating to any controlled substance;
(iii) The proximity of the object in time and space to a direct violation of this chapter;
(iv) The proximity of the object to a controlled substance;
(v) The existence of any residue of a controlled substance on the object;
(vi) (a) Direct or circumstantial evidence of the intent of an owner or of anyone in control of the object to deliver it to a person whom he or she knows, or should reasonably know, intends to use the object to facilitate a violation of this chapter.
(b) The innocence of an owner or of anyone in control of the object as to a direct violation of this chapter does not prevent a finding that the object is intended for use or designed for use as "drug paraphernalia";
(vii) An oral or written instruction provided with the object concerning its use;
(viii) Descriptive materials accompanying the object that explain or depict its use;
(ix) National and local advertising concerning the object's use;
(x) The manner in which the object is displayed for sale;
(xi) Whether the owner or anyone in control of the object is a legitimate supplier of a like or related item to the community, such as a licensed distributor or dealer of a tobacco product;
(xii) Direct or circumstantial evidence of the ratio of sales of the objects to the total sales of the business enterprise;
(xiii) The existence and scope of legitimate uses for the object in the community; and
(xiv) Expert testimony concerning the object's use;


/mostly from here (new window)
 
2008-05-08 11:05:01 PM
Just sent to my representative, and about to go to both senators:
"Dear Mr. Loebsack,

I recently read an article from Reason Magazine entitled "Tracy Ingle: Another Drug War Outrage" (available at http://reason.com/blog/show/126284.html?redux). Mr. Ingle's house was broken into by heavily-armed SWAT police on a boiler-plate no-knock warrant, which they could not even bother to reprint so that it contained the correct drug which they accused him of selling; when Mr. Ingle picked up a (broken) gun and pointed it at officers as they stood in front of his shattered window, and then threw it down upon realizing that it was the police, they shot him. Five times.
When he was released from the hospital, police immediately questioned him for a period of hours, denying him medication or access to his family. After this, they arrested him. The hospital nurses had warned him to change the bandages on his wounds every four to six hours to prevent infection; during his four days in jail, his bandages were changed twice. He was told not to use the showers, or he'd "probably get gangrene."
No drugs were found at Mr. Ingle's residence. The only "paraphernalia" recovered was a digital scale and plastic bags, which both Ingle and his sister have stated were hers, and used for jewelry-making. At Ingle's bail hearing, the judge set bail at $250,000, explaining that he'd been in a "shootout" with police - despite the fact that he hadn't fired a shot.
I cannot expressly strongly enough my outrage over this; I ask, I plead, I beseech that you speak out immediately against this and similar horrors that are being committed under the ineffectual, wasteful, anti-democratic, and ridiculous "War on Drugs" that has led in large part to our nation, which has less than five percent of the world's population, having twenty-five percent of its prisoners. (http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/04/23/america/23prison.php) This statistic is appalling.

Respectfully yours,"
 
2008-05-08 11:08:19 PM
mobombhead: Well, he deserved to be shot. He pointed a gun at a cop. The cops would have no way of knowing it was 'broken'.

As far as the scale and the baggies - was there other jewelry making stuff in the house? My wife makes jewelry and she has piles upon piles of shiat that could back up the jewelry making claim.


What is it? Are you a cop, yourself? There's no justification for any of their actions! They were wrong from the very start, and managed to compound their mistakes repeatedly with wrongful acts, and are still doing so. The cops and judge(s) involved here are the ones who deserve to be shot and incarcerated and deprived of medical treatment. You belong with them. Eat shiat and diaf!
 
2008-05-08 11:08:46 PM
The argument about whether or not the man was justified in shooting at the cops doesn't address the real problem. They never should have been granted a no-knock warrant in the first place. That's why these warrants are usually only given out when the police have compiled enough specific evidence to justify that kind of force. The police are wrong for putting the man in that kind of position for no good reason.
 
2008-05-08 11:11:03 PM
Kilby: Just sent to my representative, and about to go to both senators:
"Dear Mr. Loebsack,

**********
Loebsack... heh
 
2008-05-08 11:15:15 PM
At least he was not (yet) murdered by the cops.
There was a family in Tennessee where the wife recorded the police torturing her husband, no cops went to jail; but later first the the wife and later the husband were arrested for "possession of drugs".
The 50 rounds used in the SUV murder in NYC.
The 133 rounds into a 79 year old man in Miami who had a shovel.
These are the published ones; how many other cop commited murders did not ever get public?
 
2008-05-08 11:18:36 PM
I donated some money. I don't care if he did have drugs in there. No one deserves this. Due process and the belief that someone is innocent before proven guilty exist for a reason, and must be defended. I really hope some high falutin' defense lawyer takes his case and sues the Police dept. into oblivion.
 
2008-05-08 11:22:43 PM
I'm the author of the post, and a tfarker.

Those who've criticized me for not "telling both sides" might note that I mentioned in the article that I tried to contact both the prosecutor and the police department. Neither returned my calls. The Arkansas Times also tried to contact both, to no avail. The police won't talk about what happened. The police won't even release the affidavits, which are supposed to be public record (I'll be sending an open records request for them next week). The prosecutor even tried to get a gag order imposed on Ingle.

You've got a shot-up guy served with a no-knock warrant where no drugs were found, and nobody on the police side is talking.

I thought that was a story worth telling. If it seems one-sided, it's because only one side would talk.
 
2008-05-08 11:28:40 PM
prescott: I'm the author of the post, and a tfarker.

I thought that was a story worth telling.


It was. Thank you. Hopefully the guy will get some justice.
 
2008-05-08 11:41:54 PM
prescott: You've got a shot-up guy served with a no-knock warrant where no drugs were found, and nobody on the police side is talking.

I thought that was a story worth telling. If it seems one-sided, it's because only one side would talk.



THIS

www.dallasnews.com
 
2008-05-08 11:48:27 PM
prescott: I'm the author of the post, and a tfarker.

Those who've criticized me for not "telling both sides" might note that I mentioned in the article that I tried to contact both the prosecutor and the police department. Neither returned my calls. The Arkansas Times also tried to contact both, to no avail. The police won't talk about what happened. The police won't even release the affidavits, which are supposed to be public record (I'll be sending an open records request for them next week). The prosecutor even tried to get a gag order imposed on Ingle.

You've got a shot-up guy served with a no-knock warrant where no drugs were found, and nobody on the police side is talking.

I thought that was a story worth telling. If it seems one-sided, it's because only one side would talk.


Radley Balko is a TFer? Fark yeah!
 
2008-05-08 11:52:09 PM
This kinda stuff makes me forget this so I'll ask the people against Tracy. Is it innocent until proven guilty or guilty until proven innocent?

All of you bashers should read the warrant. They got nothing. I really hope a "good" lawyer picks this up and sues the crap out of that judge and the police involved. That would be justice.
 
2008-05-09 12:06:34 AM
Any "Law and Order" types wish to try to refute this. Watch it, it is absolutely tragic.
 
2008-05-09 12:08:51 AM
RoxtarRyan: To avoid such things as this, I recommend the Ultimate Lock (new window).

-Takes up to 8,000lbs of pressure
-Renders raids useless unless you drive a truck through the door
-Can't be kicked in


Doesn't matter how good your deadbolt is if your hinges are weak and your door is anything that is breakable/cuttable/smashable. That's just another nice shiny piece of junk in the end if someone wants in your house. Wrought Iron safety door/gates would work a helluva lot better.
 
2008-05-09 12:12:10 AM
carniemechanic: mobombhead: Well, he deserved to be shot. He pointed a gun at a cop. The cops would have no way of knowing it was 'broken'.

As far as the scale and the baggies - was there other jewelry making stuff in the house? My wife makes jewelry and she has piles upon piles of shiat that could back up the jewelry making claim.

What is it? Are you a cop, yourself? There's no justification for any of their actions! They were wrong from the very start


You're conflating two separate things.

Assuming they were entering his house legally, they had the duty to shoot him once he presented the gun. He presented an unknown danger, and they needed to stop that danger as quickly as possible.

HOWEVER, they had no right to be there in the first place. There is no way a reasonable person could argue, based on what was in the warrant, that the public was safer by doing this than by doing a normal arrest during the day off-site.

As a result, I think everything that happened against the guy after the invasion should be thrown out, and any damages and costs involved are the responsibility of the cops, and the judge should be censured at the very least.

/You point a gun, expect to get shot unless you've killed who you're aiming at.
//Cops shouldn't have made this happen to begin with.
 
2008-05-09 12:12:53 AM
Pincy:
So we have the right to defend our property but if you make the mistake of doing it when cops bust your door down unannounced in the middle of the night than your SOL?


My argument wasn't about the right to bear arms or the right to defend one's self. My argument was that one has to take responsability when drawing a weapon. Understand that you've just raised the stakes and that may backfire on you. Criminals do the same thing when they draw a weapon.
 
2008-05-09 12:14:15 AM
Arkansas. I was thinking of other famous Arkansas railroads... a quick search came up with the West Memphis Three. Any of you farkers remember this case?
Satanist Case May Close Death Row (pops)

I'm seeing things Prescott's way... what was the justification for the raid in the first place? and is paraphernalia enough to convict? I can see both sides as far as the police firing on their suspect (yer a cop with a gun coming to bear, you fire; however if the raid was unlawful, the police are liable). All in all, there is definitely sumfin stinky going on with this case.
 
2008-05-09 12:31:47 AM
Horrible. The war on drugs has to be the most egregious example of misguided federal muscle in the history of the United States. I'm excluding the Iraq war because the war on drugs has gone on longer and taken more lives (I think. It certainly has ruined at least as many). I'm gonna renew my subscription to reason and have a few more drinks.

/drink up, the apocalypse is coming
//drink up, it's thursday
///slashies
 
2008-05-09 12:32:33 AM
There is a definite slant to the story. The scale and baggies probably did belong to the guy and just bad luck for him that the guys breaking into his house that he pointed a gun at were well armed cops and not some vagrant looking for something he could sell at the pawn shop. I don't think he is the innocent law abiding citizen TFA tries to portray him as, but it is stil pretty farked up nevertheless.

On the other hand, the police need the war on drugs, regardless of how pointless it may be. They need to have a bogeyman to fight, something to do, otherwise, they would just stand around in a cirlcle at the station jerking each other off. Either that, or encroaching on some other liberties in the name of having "something to do".
 
2008-05-09 12:42:28 AM
The real tragedy and idiocy of this, as has been mentioned before, is that they charged him because of a scale and some baggies.

That would be like the coppers saying, "We found some semen in your home. You're under arrest for raping a thousand women and ten thousand kids."

/Uncle is LAPD
//He is the only cop I trust in this country, and only because his wife is loaded.
 
2008-05-09 12:51:37 AM
toonz: Police Officers died on 9/11, so you can kiss MY hero ass, scumbag!


/knows many cops
//like several of them, cuz they're good guys
///a couple of them, I pretend to like cuz they're farking psycho.


So did stock brokers. Should we worship them, too?
 
2008-05-09 12:58:53 AM
this kinda shiat is scary to me. I will vote for a candidate that will protect my rights and states rights.
 
2008-05-09 01:00:48 AM
toonz: Police Officers died on 9/11, so you can kiss MY hero ass, scumbag!

Tell you what. If I run into any of those particular dead officers out here, I'll make sure to not resist when they try to eat my brain.
 
2008-05-09 01:27:44 AM
toonz: Police Officers died on 9/11, so you can kiss MY hero ass, scumbag!


I just realized something...

9/11 is the Godwin Law of our generation.
 
2008-05-09 01:47:52 AM
Allright, that's it....WOW just WOW

This is the only thread on Fark that has made me angry and sad at the same time. Obviously there is a troll orgy going on here but also there is the most THIS I've ever seen. Anyone over four years old would take a look at this story and realize it was a travesty even before this guy knew what was happening. Even if he was a drug dealer no one deserves to be treated like this by a democratic "justice" system. I don't think all cops are corrupt or even all lawyers for that matter. We need them. But like anything else some abuse and some just screw up.

As it's been mentioned a million times in this thread, the warrant was the initial problem. why would any judge sign what's essentially mad libs. We think he's selling _______. Did they have an informant? Did an agent buy something from him? Honestly, the circumstances around this are ridiculous. I thought everyone on Arkansas had a police scanner and a gun. His didn't even work! Yeah dangerous drug dealer. And he can't even afford his own defense? Sounds like he wasn't a very good drug dealer either. That deserves a no knock warrant. What else bothers me is that every meth dealer i've ever known ALWAYS has meth!

I hope this story gets more attention but it won't because he is poor. Anyone else notice that this "war on drugs" only seems to put poor people behind bars.

btw..Jesus Built My Hybrid you were the first to mention his family's relief fund amidst the flame war - kudos, I had already sent 20 bucks (best I can do). Not for lawyers but for medical bills that will haunt that family for years.

/I'm done ranting
//gonna fix a drink now...(must be a drug dealer)
 
2008-05-09 01:51:02 AM
trutommo: toonz: Police Officers died on 9/11, so you can kiss MY hero ass, scumbag!

I just realized something...

9/11 is the Godwin Law of our generation.


Of course.

godwin -> 7+15+4+23+9+14 = 72 => 7+2 = 9
With 6 numbers to start, and 5 pluses, you get 11... 9/11

Also, notice how those 1's look like towers? And we use ARABIC numerals?
Coincidence? No, they had this planned for thousands of years.
 
2008-05-09 01:51:33 AM
this article says he was shot by an officer already inside the house. in the Arkansas Times article, it says that he pulled the non functioning gun and pointed it towards the window in his room that was broken by the swat team. it then states that he saw a flash of light(i guess it was a flash bang) and was able to see that the men outside the window where cops, so he dropped the gun. thats when he says the cops from outside the window opened fire.
 
2008-05-09 02:00:53 AM
Does anyone remember the moment when Weaver went from widely hated to now being considered on point with his posts? It's like I witnessed Fark evolution before my eyes.
 
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