canyoneer: Sir Charles: "...well ANWR alone has between 5 and 10 billion barrels."

454 days worth.

Still, that's almost a year and a half!

canyoneer: Sir Charles: "...well ANWR alone has between 5 and 10 billion barrels."

454 days worth.

..... way to conveniently leave out the rest of my post. ANWR is but one area to drill, and there are plenty more.

On top of that, if the US does the drilling you can be assured far less environmental damage than if a 3rd world country does it.

Sir Charles: Crazy_horce: I'm SURE you've got some statistics and citations to back that wild assertion up.

well ANWR alone has between 5 and 10 billion barrels.
Do I need to go digging for the gulf of mexico stuff? And when the price gets expensive enough there's all that tar sand stuff...

there's plenty.

So at our current consumption ANWR would last us around ~500 days.

Mercutio74: I assume it'll only be the 300 series BMWs being repossessed. If there's ever been a car designed for people living beyond their means, surely this is it.
Yeah this is true however I have to add the list of people who has their 3 series BMW paid off. Valid point though maybe it will teach people not buy more then they can afford. Oh wait no it won't my bad, I keep trying to bring logic into debates.

UpstateMonkey: Crazy_horce: UpstateMonkey: WTF? Seriously buddy? Yeah, I've heard a lot of car manufacturer's are going this way.


YA RLY!

Wow, one start-up is actually building a plant. STOP THE PRESSES -- our dependency on foreign oil is over!



Corn is not going to work.

Crazy_horce: So at our current consumption ANWR would last us around ~500 days.

There's plenty more.

AmazingRuss: Tired of being farked by the oil companies?

Stop buying what they sell.

The stick is right in front of you. Pick it up and beat the crap out of them with it.

Otherwise, bend over and take it. You know you want it.

I'm going to let someone else beat you over the head with this, but I wanted the first shot. The price of gas affects you in more ways than just your car's gas tank.

canyoneer:I guess it depends on whether you believe OPEC, and whether the current snapshot is meaningful.

I'd believe OPEC in the sense that the projection you posted deals with a time frame of a few months.

...but in the long-term I'm more pessimistic. From what I've seen, non-OPEC countries are already past peak production. Whether the OPEC countries are there or not, they have to be close.

UpstateMonkey: Wow, one start-up is actually building a plant. STOP THE PRESSES -- our dependency on foreign oil is over!

You continue to show your ignorance. You might just want to stop now before you end up as a fark cliche.

Millzners:Biofuel is a joke.

Hardly. See Brazil for an example. Also, do not forget that petroleum itself is a biofuel -- just not a recently-created one.

Sir Charles: It's basically the same end result as corn-fuels, except it's far more efficient to produce.

/the more you know

How will algae lead to increased food prices?

\different end result

MaxxLarge: I just don't understand why gas held at roughly an inflation-adjusted buck a gallon for almost thirty years, then SUDDENLY it balloons to almost 400% that and climbing the eight years we have an old oil profiteer in the White House, and we're just supposed to accept this as market fluctuation?

Blame Bush, he's the root of all evil!

No, there are many reasons why oil costs so much.

1) China buying up oil all over the place, due to massive development in recent years.
2) OPEC keeping supply down on purpose.
3) Idiot liberals blocking all attempts to open domestic refineries or expand drilling operations.
4) A weakened dollar as a result of having to buy foreign oil at much higher prices (see items 1-3).

As for gasoline, before you jump all over the oil companies for their "windfall profits", keep in mind that they invested trillions to get their current billions in profit, and also keep in mind that the gov't is looting us with gasoline taxes 5x higher than the amount of profit the oil companies themselves are making. Gasoline money is an easy way to cover bloated state budgets.

All in all, I doubt Bush has affected the price of oil much.

Sir Charles: There's plenty more.

Please do show us where is it oh enlightened one. And keep in mind that it would take LONGER to develop those fields than the amount of days of oil they would produce.

It's easier for oil traders to get away with blatant speculation when you have everyone convinced the price increases are inevitable. That's all that this is.

flamingboard: MaxxLarge: BooBoo23: MaxxLarge: Honestly, how stupid do they think we are?!?
Just stupid enough to whine loudly yet not change our practices- aka pretty stupid.

Speak for yourself. I bought a hybrid

congrats! you have done nothing to help the environment!


But but...I just bought a large expensive piece of equipment that only 8% of the world's population can afford...Doesn't that help the environment?


Listen up kids: There are 6.6 billion people on Planet Earth. Only 0.6 billion have access to a personal motor vehicle. High oil prices are the mechanism by which the richest 10% of people keep the other 90% from getting their grubby hands on some. So, unless you're prepared to live without clean water, like 15% of the population, sanitary facilities, electricity, 2000+ calories of nutritious assorted (and often imported) foods, etc., a motor vehicle, and all the other ways you use 30-50x as much energy as people in the 3rd World, please quiet down about how "tough" you have it simply because you need to spend 4% of your annual income to keep fueling your Ford Behemoth to drive your butt to your office job.

Thanks GOPers, your boy screwed the pooch and each and everyone of you are the greatest threat to America it has ever had to face.

j0ndas: No, there are many reasons why oil costs so much.

you forgot the big reason, speculation pure and simple.

Nutsac_Jim: MaxxLarge: I just don't understand why gas held at roughly an inflation-adjusted buck a gallon for almost thirty years, then SUDDENLY it balloons to almost 400% that and climbing the eight years we have an old oil profiteer in the White House, and we're just supposed to accept this as market fluctuation?

Yet everyone shut their effing mouth when their salary went up 2x and their house went up 3x in the same period.

Because the media convinced everyone that their own home, where they sleep at night, was "an investment" that could be counted on to "provide excellent returns" that were "better than stocks", so folks just re-financed their way into the poor-house thinking that "their investment" had no place to go pricewise but up.

Crazy Vlaclav: She'll go 300 hectares on a tank of kerosine!

Homer: What country is this car from?

Crazy Vaclav: It no longer exists, but take her for a test drive and you'll agree, "zagra verdans lotik diev."

MaxxLarge: Honestly, how stupid do they think we are?!?

Dude, we are a nation that makes a median household income of $40,000. We live in a median home prices at $250,000 and drive two median level of cars that cost a median value of $15,000. We also have $8000 average in unsecured credit card debt. We cry when someone want to raise the minimum wage a buck because we might have to pay 5% more for t-shirts down at the Wal-Mart while our tax dollars go to provide food stamps and Medicaid to the 40% of their full time employees that qualify for federal assistance. We are a nation filled with many people that would not have eaten a vegetable all week if potatoes, ketchup and frosted corn flakes were not somehow considered vegetables. We are nation where 33% of the electorate thinks that the guy who went to United Church of Christ is a Muslim and do not understand that even if he was a Muslim secret agent that the President of the United States does not have the power to nuke American cities. We are a nation that can name more characters on the Simpson's than we can former Presidents. We are a nation full of people that can not find Iraq on a map. Worst of all we are a nation where a small majority of smarter and less moral people take advantage of the fact that we are a nation of idiots and those of us that know better do nothing about it. That is America in the 21st Century.

geez oil has been such a little attention whore lately...

I could come in and mock tinfoil hatters without the vaguest clue of how a fungible commodity on a free global market behaves, but that's about as useful as arguing the economic implications of deforestation on national farming output with a telephone pole. I decided instead of vigorous intellectual debates on Fark, I'd invest like I believe what I argue.

/Checks my retirement portfolio... ENER stock up 30% today (kinda sad I cashed out half my position when it doubled the first time), TM took a little hit but is still beating the market, international funds/I-think-republicans-will-kill-the-economiy funds ticking up nicely...
//If you believe your bs, put your money where you mouth is and let me know how it turns out
///Not that small moves in a retirement fund mean much - it's all funny money I can't touch for 30 years, but sub-$20 commissions make it worth play'n a bit

Sir Charles: Crazy_horce: So at our current consumption ANWR would last us around ~500 days.

There's plenty more.

A sentence fragment is not a verifiable statistic.

UpstateMonkey: Wow, one start-up is actually building a plant. STOP THE PRESSES -- our dependency on foreign oil is over!

Nobody claimed that algae would end our oil dependence by itself. However that was a good straw man you handily defeated.

Algae is a very viable option to create bio-fuels from. It can be cost effectively "grown" in non arable lands.
More alternative fuels =less oil

Please point out the problems YOU see with it....

Crazy_horce:
Scientists unlock frozen natural gas from ice-like gas hydrates that, worldwide, dwarf all known fossil fuel deposits combined.

No. No. Just... no. Those ice-like gas deposits are called clathrates, and they're found on the ocean floor at immense pressure and freezing temperatures. If you try to bring them up to the surface, or jostle them too much, they tend to explode in a cloud of methane. Not only does that kinda make them infeasible as an energy source, it could also seriously fark with the planet's climate .

tweekster: UpstateMonkey: Wow, one start-up is actually building a plant. STOP THE PRESSES -- our dependency on foreign oil is over!

You continue to show your ignorance. You might just want to stop now before you end up as a fark cliche.

Wow, that'll suck and will ruin my weekend. I'm all for alternative fuel and looking into whatever means necessary to get us off foreign oil dependency, however, some of this just seems idealistic and is being done just to prove it can be done (i.e. algea). Cool idea and interesting, but I don't see it as a reality.

MaxxLarge: Wow. It's too bad that's just "what the market will bear." Pay no attention to those obscene, across-all-industries record-setting Q4 profits behind the curtain.

Honestly, how stupid do they think we are?!?

Hate to break it to ya but hmmm we are.. that's why the oil companies keep on raping us left and right and we're just taking it!

Can we as a society do like a John Q on the gas companies like he did to the hospital? seriously?

Crazy_horce: HealingAmerica: Plus mine gets 26 miles per gallon, and its '02 model.

Stick with the better German car.

\'01 Benz- 36mpg -(not diesel)

Nice, what model? I was thinking of picking up MB after my BMW.

My BMW will be staying put, thanks....getting great mileage too!!

/60+
//Two-wheeled version
///Don't forget about the Vespa either
////Slashies

Millzners:most efficient and environmentally-friendly means of producing electricity is nuclear power

I agree that we also need more nuclear power -- particularly breeder reactors to avoid exhausting the uranium supply. Technically, any element heavier than iron/nickel can release energy if fissioned, though some are easier to turn into fissile fuel than others.

Our current energy needs are so great, however, that it would be foolish to latch onto any single technology as a panacea. Rather, a diverse basket of energy-producing technologies needs to be pursued simultaneously. Liquid hydrocarbons, for instance, make an excellent portable transportation fuel, and I cannot see how creating them from electrical energy (while certainly possible) would be efficient.

Sir Charles: MaxxLarge: Wow. It's too bad that's just "what the market will bear." Pay no attention to those obscene, across-all-industries record-setting Q4 profits behind the curtain.

... Domestic oil companies do not set the price of oil. This is largely done by OPEC.

Blame Bush all you want, but given that we only get 9-12% of our oil domestically, they have very little to do with setting the price of oil (and in turn, their profits).

^ above response is the epitome of a corporate tool. bend over, idiot, and spread 'em.

Farking speculators.

*Field of dreams voice* If you say it, it will happen. *Field of drems voice*

I predict Goldman Sachs will be belly up by 2010 and JP Morgan will buy them at basement bargin prices of $2 a share because JP Morgan is backed by the Federal Reserve.

Seriously, two weeks after the Olympics is over, China will go into a critical recession that could possibly cause a class war and create higher prices on goods, but lower costs on commodities. This will force Wal-Mart and others to find places that will make cheaper goods like Indonesia or India.

Or we get Canada to join OPEC, unite currencies called the Dollar(not the Amero), and help drive down oil prices.

TheXerox: vincentpriceisdead: Spanky_McFarksalot: /Also, let's kill the speculators.

Firreals, if they closed the Enron loopholes that would make me feel a lot better.

THIS.

A lot of this is due to the after hours trading and speculation due to the Enron loophole which was passed back in '99. Close it and we might see things return to normal, or at least slow the price increases.

You mean 2001, right? Because it's all Bush's fault and he wasn't President in 1999.

I_AM_M: Thanks GOPers, your boy screwed the pooch and each and everyone of you are the greatest threat to America it has ever had to face.

this has nothing to do with the GOP. There are plenty of oil traders who are Democrats. Hell the two biggest slimebuckets of all, Marc Rich and Pincus Green, who created the spot oil market, and broke more than a few laws, were pardoned by Clinton.

MaxxLarge: Wow. It's too bad that's just "what the market will bear." Pay no attention to those obscene, across-all-industries record-setting Q4 profits behind the curtain.

Honestly, how stupid do they think we are?!?

Umm, stupid enough to keep spending all our money on gasoline?

idrow: Crazy Vlaclav: She'll go 300 hectares on a tank of kerosine!

Homer: What country is this car from?

Crazy Vaclav: It no longer exists, but take her for a test drive and you'll agree, "zagra verdans lotik diev."

Put it in "H"!

Crazy_horce: Sir Charles: It's basically the same end result as corn-fuels, except it's far more efficient to produce.

/the more you know

How will algae lead to increased food prices?

\different end result

... now you're not even making any sort of sense.... i'm done.

well almost:

Crazy_horce: Sir Charles: There's plenty more.

Please do show us where is it oh enlightened one. And keep in mind that it would take LONGER to develop those fields than the amount of days of oil they would produce.
200 billion barrels under north dakota.

and there's more in the gulf of mexico, and off california, etc etc etc.

DaSwankOne: he was a Muslim secret agent that the President of the United States does not have the power to nuke American cities. We are a nation that can name more characters on the Simpson's than we can former Presidents. We are a nation full of people that can not find Iraq on a map. Worst of all we are a nation where a small majority of smarter and less moral people take advantage of the fact that we are a nation of idiots and those of us that know better do nothing about it. That is America in the 21st Century.

This is just about right.

MaxxLarge: I just don't understand why gas held at roughly an inflation-adjusted buck a gallon for almost thirty years, then SUDDENLY it balloons to almost 400% that and climbing the eight years we have an old oil profiteer in the White House, and we're just supposed to accept this as market fluctuation?

Maybe oil was $9 a barrel at the beginning of your statistic period.

Are you paying 10x more for gas now? No.

HoneyDog: They really need to start drilling, a lot, in the Bakken Oil Formation. With that, we don't need the foreign oil.

That entire formation has 270 million barrels. We consume roughly 21 million barrels a day. What are you going to do in August?

Fibber McLiarson: above response is the epitome of a corporate tool. bend over, idiot, and spread 'em.

What a well thought out rebuttal. Kudos!

I was at a resort yesterday (which is cutting back on their staff) say, "I won't be coming to work tomorrow. You've cut back my hours and I don't have gas in my car. Since I can't work more hours, I can't afford to come to work. So I guess I quit, or you fire me."

These traders need to be strung up by their toenails and flogged.

We're sitting on 2 trillion barrels of oil (http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/u_s__has_massive_oil.html) and for some reason, we can't get it.

The politicians and environmentalists need to be strung up by their toenails and flogged.

The little people are the ones hurting here. Carpooling isn't an option for me. Neither is public transportation, nor is riding a bike, walking or taking a pogo stick. I've found that by slowing down from 70 mph to 60 mph, my fuel economy has gone up about 3-4 mpg. That's unfortunately the best I can do. I still need to drive to get to work, and $4/gallon gas really hurts. Something's going to give here.

Gas is going up, food is going up, prices for soft goods are going up, prices for durable goods are going up. Wages aren't going up (except the stupid minimum wage), which only makes other prices go up. What are people going to cut back on paying? And at what point, when people stop spending money on things do businesses cut back and lay people off because they can't afford to pay people since people aren't spending money?

If you can't afford to get to work, this is really going to be dangerous.

Once we've made all the cuts we can make, what bills are we supposed to not pay?

Taxes? Mortgage/rent? Car payment? Utilities?

I don't know about anyone else, but this is really making me nervous.

Tartha De Tear: The price of gas affects you in more ways than just your car's gas tank.

How farking thick are you? The impact of the 0.2 ounces of diesel required to transport my week's worth of groceries and goods is far less than the 6 ounces I spend to get to the store and back to pick them up. Yes the price of gas effects everyone, but for the typical American 80% of the impact is in personal commuting and transportation. Whining that the other 20% is just as important is like the fatty going for a diet coke with their three quarterpounders with double cheese and super-sized fries.

Commercial transport is crazy efficient on a pound basis and even factory farming can churn out the calories with comparatively little gas compared to a typical sedan idling away at every stop sign and light from here to Bumfark, USA's nearest grocery store.

I_AM_M: Thanks GOPers, your boy screwed the pooch and each and everyone of you are the greatest threat to America it has ever had to face.

Shut it, emo. Don't you have some eyeliner to put on?

FarkinFarker: *Field of dreams voice* If you say it, it will happen. *Field of drems voice*

THIS!

HealingAmerica: Crazy_horce: HealingAmerica: Plus mine gets 26 miles per gallon, and its '02 model.

Stick with the better German car.

\'01 Benz- 36mpg -(not diesel)

Nice, what model? I was thinking of picking up MB after my BMW.


SLK320 - Hard top convertible. It's only a 2 seater but i don't really need more. I love this car. Would buy another MB in a heartbeat.