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(Talking Points Memo)   McCain skirts campaign finance laws while flying around the country in his billionare wife's jet calling Barack Obama an elitist   (talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 88
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1151 clicks; posted to Politics » on 27 Apr 2008 at 12:29 PM (5 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2008-04-27 09:35:25 AM
Politicians are naughty by nature.

You can not trust them.

Party affiliation makes no difference.
 
2008-04-27 09:39:20 AM
Dufus: Politicians are naughty by nature.

You can not trust them.

Party affiliation makes no difference.


That's why Obama is looking for the best people for his administration no matter their stripes. (^)
 
2008-04-27 09:41:13 AM
Ah, no. It's not illegal to fly in your wife's plane. No rules are being skirted because there is no rule against it. In fact, there is actually a rule in place specifically authorizing this, so what the hell is McCain doing here that's illegal?

Yes, there is a proposed rule that would prohibit this, but given that Democrats are preventing any additional appointments to the FEC, there's an obvious reason as to why the proposed rule hasn't been enacted.
 
2008-04-27 09:49:38 AM
Dufus: Party affiliation makes no difference.

I've been saying this for years. Both sides are corporate whores.
 
2008-04-27 09:53:18 AM
jackmalice: Yes, there is a proposed rule that would prohibit this, but given that Democrats are preventing any additional appointments to the FEC, there's an obvious reason as to why the proposed rule hasn't been enacted.

yes and the cry of obstructionism rings hollow considering how the GOP has been doing the same thing to every Dem bill that comes through.
there's a good reason the constitution gives consent power to the senate. and in such a sensitive and critical agency as the FEC is to partisan influence over the very act of democracy one can understand the seriousness of the appointments no?
and given this administration's history of politicizing every agency with loyalist cronies you can understand the concern right?

the constitution provides for compromise and the president can nominate someone more agreeable. I think that's how it's supposed to work. but this president doesn't like compromise. he doesn't budge and calls the other side obstructionist.

pot meet kettle. but only one side can nominate a more agreeable choice.
 
2008-04-27 09:53:20 AM
jackmalice: but given that Democrats are preventing any additional appointments to the FEC, there's an obvious reason as to why the proposed rule hasn't been enacted.

The fact that you are capable of looking at this particular situation, assessing the entire face of it, and then coming out with a statement that places all of the blame entirely upon one of the sides makes a full shaker of salt a required prop for digesting any further of your claims. One might even go so far as to label you a Jimmy Buffett.
 
2008-04-27 09:59:44 AM
Didn't the GOP complain about Kerry doing this?
 
2008-04-27 10:06:27 AM
from the NYT article referenced:

Because that exemption remains, Mr. McCain's campaign was able to use his wife's corporate plane like a charter jet while paying first-class rates, several campaign finance experts said. Several of those experts, however, added that his campaign's actions, while keeping with the letter of law, did not reflect its spirit.

I'm confused. he didn't break any rules, but he's somehow done something wrong because of the spirit of the law?
 
2008-04-27 10:10:02 AM
IOKIYAR
 
2008-04-27 10:32:35 AM
ManRay: Didn't the GOP complain about Kerry doing this?

Yeah but he is French, and his (eww! foreigner!)wife got rich on ketchup, not beer. And that's apparently unacceptable.
 
2008-04-27 10:38:32 AM
Well McCain is not an elitist, his wife is. Don't vote for a man that makes his own money vote for a man that marries into it. cough cough just like Kerry cough cough

ofcoure ya'll know why I think comparing McCain to Obama is useless...
 
2008-04-27 11:01:07 AM
jackmalice: Ah, no. It's not illegal to fly in your wife's plane. No rules are being skirted because there is no rule against it. In fact, there is actually a rule in place specifically authorizing this, so what the hell is McCain doing here that's illegal?

Yes, there is a proposed rule that would prohibit this, but given that Democrats are preventing any additional appointments to the FEC Bush has not submitted replacements for Congress to confirm nor has he made recess appointments (he did so five times for the FEC alone) to that effect, there's an obvious reason as to why the proposed rule hasn't been enacted.


FTFY.
 
2008-04-27 11:06:46 AM
Hobodeluxe: Dufus: Politicians are naughty by nature.

You can not trust them.

Party affiliation makes no difference.

That's why Obama is looking for the best people for his administration no matter their stripes. (^)


But they're still either republican or Democratic stripes, so they will still be inherently corrupt.

More of the same.

It's just that Clinton and McCain are more blatant about it than Obama.
 
2008-04-27 11:13:55 AM
Sir Cumference the Flatulent: Hobodeluxe: Dufus: Politicians are naughty by nature.

You can not trust them.

Party affiliation makes no difference.

That's why Obama is looking for the best people for his administration no matter their stripes. (^)

But they're still either republican or Democratic stripes, so they will still be inherently corrupt.

More of the same.

It's just that Clinton and McCain are more blatant about it than Obama.


you're right but my job is to vote for the one I think would do the best job. and that's Obama. I like his views on lobbyists and special interests. the other two are in too deep.
 
2008-04-27 11:20:01 AM
Uppity elitist!
 
2008-04-27 11:22:52 AM
The Stealth Hippopotamus: Well McCain is not an elitist, his wife is.

yeah elitists don't have rich beautiful trophy wives the same age as their daughter. you're right.
elitists don't accept disability and ssi while their wife is super rich and look down their noses at "welfare moms".
They don't leave their wife ,the mother of his children after an affair with a younger woman. Especially after she became disfigured in an accident. He couldn't be a politician with that on his arm now could he? Why not get a trophy wife? All his friends were doing it. And if she's rich all the better.
His wife who waited on him through Vietnam and he kicked to the curb gets 17k a year alimony from him that's it.


I can't vote for that.
 
2008-04-27 11:28:14 AM
img385.imageshack.us

"That uppity elitist went and hit me over the head with a shovel!"
 
2008-04-27 11:39:21 AM
JoJoTheIdiotMonkeyBoy: "That uppity elitist went and hit me over the head with a shovel!"

I lol'd. I really hope Obama wins. First and foremost because I like him, but also because I want to visit Washington and stand in front of the White House shouting, "The President is near!"
 
2008-04-27 12:38:43 PM
cmunic8r99: from the NYT article referenced:

"Because that exemption remains, Mr. McCain's campaign was able to use his wife's corporate plane like a charter jet while paying first-class rates, several campaign finance experts said. Several of those experts, however, added that his campaign's actions, while keeping with the letter of law, did not reflect its spirit."

I'm confused. he didn't break any rules, but he's somehow done something wrong because of the spirit of the law?


It's kind of like how the NY Times said McCain didn't have sex with an aide within the letter of the definition, but more within a spirit of the definition.
 
2008-04-27 12:39:07 PM
thamike: ...his (eww! foreigner!)wife got rich on ketchup, not beer. And that's apparently unacceptable.

She got rich marrying ketchup.

And Mr. Ketchup was a Republican.

ewww...how could she!?
 
2008-04-27 12:41:30 PM
Dufus: Politicians are naughty by nature.

image.listen.com

Approves.
 
2008-04-27 12:43:27 PM
I think Obama is pretty cool guy. eh fights for change and doesn't afraid of anything
 
2008-04-27 12:45:41 PM
I stopped reading when I hit this:

there don't seem to be any laws broken

Can anyone explain how he is breaking the law if he isn't breaking the law?
 
2008-04-27 12:54:16 PM
Mordac Lord of Unholy Fury: I stopped reading when I hit this:

there don't seem to be any laws broken

Can anyone explain how he is breaking the law if he isn't breaking the law?


Well it's sort of hypocritical of Mr Super ethical straight talk express to be skirting a law that he helped craft.
 
2008-04-27 01:00:28 PM
img1.picturewizard.com
 
2008-04-27 01:02:41 PM
naughty by nature

I'll grant you this, but I am certainly not down with Other Peoples' Primaries.
 
2008-04-27 01:07:43 PM
"Elitist" is not based on how much money you have but how you perceive others.
 
2008-04-27 01:10:08 PM
Dinki: Well it's sort of hypocritical of Mr Super ethical straight talk express to be skirting a law that he helped craft.

Its not just hypocritical, its blatantly immoral (a la the Categorical Imperative) and its most likely unethical vis a vis Senate ethics rules. Trying to nullify you own legislation when it works against you is a genuine character issue, unlike....say...the relative presence or absence of a flag pin or sitting and listening to a controversial sermon by some preacher or other.
 
2008-04-27 01:10:46 PM
ManRay: Didn't the GOP complain about Kerry doing this?

well yeah, but Kerry was a Democrat. It's only illegal if the OTHER party does it. If your candidate does it, then it's legal. That's like...a law of congress or something.
 
2008-04-27 01:12:54 PM
Enough of this Obama supporters are elitist stuff. Let's face it, there's nothing you can drink that's less elite than kool-aid.

/I keed
//gObama!
 
2008-04-27 01:12:58 PM
MilesTeg: "Elitist" is not based on how much money you have but how you perceive others.

By that standard, Obama would be the least elitist, since he actually talks respectfully to your intelligence and presumes you're smart enough to discern pure hyperbole. And unlike the "soft bigotry of low expectations" attitude toward the 'unwashed masses' we've come to expect from people like Senators Clinton and McCain.
 
2008-04-27 01:15:33 PM
Luckily for McCain, he knows what to do if that jet gets shot down.
 
2008-04-27 01:22:49 PM
MilesTeg: "Elitist" is not based on how much money you have but how you perceive others.

Incorrect. "Elite" and "elitist" refer to your position of power within society, and the amount of money and influence you have. What you describe as "elitist" was a term coined by conservatives who wanted to denigrate the media and academic types.

The new elitism, as you describe it, is part of a growing attitude that we should look down on successful people. It's part of the dumbing down of America, and it's part of the reason why so many people sit around and act bitter rather than bettering themselves.
 
2008-04-27 01:23:13 PM
Larofeticus: Luckily for McCain, he knows what to do if that jet gets shot down.

*golfclap*
 
2008-04-27 01:24:05 PM
It's not his wife's jet. It is a jet owned by a company she runs. If it was his wife's jet he wouldn't have had to pay to fly in it at all (he just got a giant discount). It's still not illegal but he did say say that members of congress should stop doing this sort of thing a little over a year ago and then turned around and started doing it in August when he ran short on cash. It's a classic do as I say not as I do.

McCain's only principle is that he should be president. He stands for nothing.
 
2008-04-27 01:31:52 PM
The Stealth Hippopotamus: Well McCain is not an elitist, his wife is. Don't vote for a man that makes his own money vote for a man that marries into it. cough cough just like Kerry cough cough

ofcoure ya'll know why I think comparing McCain to Obama is useless...


Marrying rich women is what made America great. Read up on Martha Washington.
 
2008-04-27 01:32:54 PM
But he calls people his friends! That's not elitist!
 
2008-04-27 01:33:11 PM
MilesTeg: "Elitist" is not based on how much money you have but how you perceive others.


Seeing how Obama is the only remaining candidate who talks to americans as if they were adults, I'd say he is the least elitist of the bunch.
 
2008-04-27 01:34:03 PM
LocalCynic: Incorrect. "Elite" and "elitist" refer to your position of power within society, and the amount of money and influence you have. What you describe as "elitist" was a term coined by conservatives who wanted to denigrate the media and academic types.

While simultaneously hiding their own places of power, privilege, and attitudes of extreme condescension towards the middle class and the poor's standards of justice and morality. Let's not forget that.
 
2008-04-27 01:42:36 PM
LocalCynic: The new elitism, as you describe it, is part of a growing attitude that we should look down on successful people. It's part of the dumbing down of America, and it's part of the reason why so many people sit around and act bitter rather than bettering themselves.

It's not surprising tho. A lot of people are starting to embrace the potential of our new information techology. It's causing Hillary a LOT of trouble...and I suspect McCain (or more likely his staffers) to sweat bullets as well.

I don't think we're as stupid as our corporate masters would like to believe. It's more likely that the voices of 'we the people' have been stifled for so long (and in so many ways) that we aren't heard. But with all this new technology in the hands of the average voter, we're hearing more and more about what we want....and what we want isn't what beltway insiders and their corporate lawyers want. Therein lies the problem....will party officals listen to their rank and file? Or will they obey the desires of their 'big money' insiders? With information flowing at light speed around candidates and elections, there is no way to control public opinion....and that's got a lot of players very unhappy.
 
2008-04-27 01:43:41 PM
eddyatwork: Dufus: Party affiliation makes no difference.

I've been saying this for years. Both sides are corporate whores.


No, you're not cynical enough yet. I'm serious: Ask yourself, "Who does my cynicism benefit?" Is it the money-loving stockholders who insist that companies do whatever maximizes quarterly profits? Is it the Talibanesque champions of Deuteronomy, who want to control your sex life? Figure that out, and at least you can make an informed choice. Cynicism without action is just jerkin' it.
 
2008-04-27 01:46:41 PM
Somacandra: [he told us to shut our whore mouths]

coffee. all over my monitor.
 
2008-04-27 01:46:58 PM
LocalCynic: MilesTeg: "Elitist" is not based on how much money you have but how you perceive others.

Incorrect. "Elite" and "elitist" refer to your position of power within society, and the amount of money and influence you have. What you describe as "elitist" was a term coined by conservatives who wanted to denigrate the media and academic types.

The new elitism, as you describe it, is part of a growing attitude that we should look down on successful people. It's part of the dumbing down of America, and it's part of the reason why so many people sit around and act bitter rather than bettering themselves.


You can't really go around thrusting your own concept of elitism on people, and saying such and such is "the new elitism." You don't have to be rich to look down on other people, you just have to perceive yourself as better, smarter, richer or higher class.

American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source - Share This
e·lit·ism or é·lit·ism Audio Help (ĭ-lē'tĭz'əm, ā-lē'-) Pronunciation Key
n.

1. The belief that certain persons or members of certain classes or groups deserve favored treatment by virtue of their perceived superiority, as in intellect, social status, or financial resources.
2.
1. The sense of entitlement enjoyed by such a group or class.
2. Control, rule, or domination by such a group or class.
 
2008-04-27 01:47:49 PM
and it doesn't cost us a penny, me especially since I don't drink canned piss.
 
2008-04-27 01:50:31 PM
milk_plus: McCain's only principle is that he should be president. He stands for nothing.

I don't think that's fair. I don't agree with his stances, philosophy or approach, as they represent a slightly more refined version of George W. Bush's presidency, but you can't say he doesn't have principles. He certainly does. They just aren't right for the country right now, that's all.
 
2008-04-27 01:56:25 PM
moothemagiccow: You can't really go around thrusting your own concept of elitism on people, and saying such and such is "the new elitism." You don't have to be rich to look down on other people, you just have to perceive yourself as better, smarter, richer or higher class.

Where is your proof that the word always meant what you say it meant? Calling someone "elite" was until 15 or 20 years ago a complement. You were calling someone highly successful. Then conservative commentators and "culture warriors" hijacked the word and injected this new, negative connotation into the word. Apparently being successful is seen by them as a negative trait. They think that successful people look down on others. Hence, the suggestion of snooty, condescending Easterners looking down on rural folk.

The irony is that the people who tend to throw around the "elitism" label are themselves highly judgmental and condescending. The ultimate effect is that people who despise the so-called "cultural elite" sit around, embittered, and are easily swayed by politicians.
 
2008-04-27 01:56:34 PM
Somacandra: milk_plus: McCain's only principle is that he should be president. He stands for nothing.

I don't think that's fair. I don't agree with his stances, philosophy or approach, as they represent a slightly more refined version of George W. Bush's presidency, but you can't say he doesn't have principles. He certainly does. They just aren't right for the country right now, that's all.


i think hillary is the only one without any principles.
 
2008-04-27 01:59:54 PM
Do as I say, not as I do. Besides, you can't afford it anyways.
 
2008-04-27 02:17:39 PM
Somacandra: milk_plus: McCain's only principle is that he should be president. He stands for nothing.

I don't think that's fair. I don't agree with his stances, philosophy or approach, as they represent a slightly more refined version of George W. Bush's presidency, but you can't say he doesn't have principles. He certainly does. They just aren't right for the country right now, that's all.


You're right, he has several sets of principles. He's for or against something until it doesn't work politically (immigration, Bush's tax cuts, Evangelical bigots, torture) then he gets out some more principles.
 
2008-04-27 02:18:52 PM
prjindigo: and it doesn't cost us a penny, me especially since I don't drink canned piss.

www.neonsign.com
 
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