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(PhillyBurbs)   Property values down? Don't worry, towns are now being ordered to raise taxes   (phillyburbs.com) divider line 61
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7856 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Apr 2008 at 12:52 AM (6 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2008-04-26 11:27:55 PM
If values are falling, they'll find real quick their tax revenue will fall on recent assessments while going up on others. Probably won't be a gain there. But the scary thing is I want to read this cooperation letter. And submitter got this totally wrong. Welcome to the dintreadorunderstandthefrikinarticledumbassmitter club.

Oh, and if you assess your properties on a rotating basis, say every three years, you won't have this problem.
 
2008-04-26 11:56:12 PM
OregonVet: If values are falling, they'll find real quick their tax revenue will fall on recent assessments while going up on others.

You've never met a philly democrat, have you? They really honestly do believe that taxing the hell out of people will make them want to move into an area.
 
2008-04-27 12:58:13 AM
Yay, more taxes on the middle-class to crush them! Yay.

/let's go watch Ow my balls!
 
2008-04-27 01:01:11 AM
They'll start by reassessing the richest neighborhoods when property values are at their lowest due to the housing slump... no need to reassess the poor neighborhoods, they were reassessed when property values were at their peak.

Fark yeah I'm proud to be an American,
God bless the U.S.
 
2008-04-27 01:03:52 AM
They're being ordered to do their jobs because the farked up the first time. Tax valuations are supposed to be fair market value. So if a 3bd, 2b home just sold for 100k with the identical floor pland you have, your valuation should be around 100k +/- 10 percent. The problem here is the appraisers were off by 50 percent.
 
2008-04-27 01:06:19 AM
This is similar to Georgia, where so many people conserved water during a drought (as they were asked to do), that the local water utility had to raise rates to compensate for the dip in water usage.


/link pops
 
2008-04-27 01:12:41 AM
One of the few things Californians have done right in the last 30 years is pass Proposition 13, which caps taxes at 1% of property value and only allows one's property tax to increase 2% a year as long as one owns the property. I'd have been taxed out of my home long ago without that. Looks like some other states could use the same remedy.
 
2008-04-27 01:13:19 AM
Weaver95: OregonVet: If values are falling, they'll find real quick their tax revenue will fall on recent assessments while going up on others.

You've never met a philly democrat, have you? They really honestly do believe that taxing the hell out of people will make them want to move into an area.


FYI, "Philly democrats" have ZERO authority over NEW JERSEY (RTFA) towns. Since the state has drastically cut, and in some cases eliminated state aid to municipalities the answer to this unfunded mandate should be no. Does no work for you? The state no longer has the threat of withholding state funds from the towns to hold over their heads.
 
2008-04-27 01:14:22 AM
Come to Florida where we are cutting taxes!

Link (new window)
 
2008-04-27 01:20:03 AM
Anagrammer
This is similar to Georgia, where so many people conserved water during a drought (as they were asked to do), that the local water utility had to raise rates to compensate for the dip in water usage.

Thats a new fad for all energy companies. All the people are buying energy efficient windows to light bulbs to off set the rising cost, and POW the power companies and gas companies are seeing their profits slip. What is business 101 when you have a monopoly and selling less units while needing to reach projected profits?

If you want to see how blatant some have become, take a look into Ameren and its history in Illinios..
 
2008-04-27 01:20:41 AM
jjorsett: One of the few things Californians have done right in the last 30 years is pass Proposition 13, which caps taxes at 1% of property value and only allows one's property tax to increase 2% a year as long as one owns the property. I'd have been taxed out of my home long ago without that. Looks like some other states could use the same remedy.

Check out the Florida homestead property tax exemption. It's now portable!

Link (new window)
 
2008-04-27 01:21:36 AM
Anagrammer: This is similar to Georgia, where so many people conserved water during a drought (as they were asked to do), that the local water utility had to raise rates to compensate for the dip in water usage.


/link pops


They should have just raised the rates to begin with, that would have made people conserve it.
 
2008-04-27 01:25:15 AM
Z1P2: They'll start by reassessing the richest neighborhoods when property values are at their lowest due to the housing slump... no need to reassess the poor neighborhoods, they were reassessed when property values were at their peak. i>


jjorsett: One of the few things Californians have done right in the last 30 years is pass Proposition 13, which caps taxes at 1% of property value and only allows one's property tax to increase 2% a year as long as one owns the property. I'd have been taxed out of my home long ago without that. Looks like some other states could use the same remedy.

Bucky Katt: Come to Florida where we are cutting taxes!

As a grad student in public policy, specializing in public choice and political economy, especially in the realm of property values, taxation, and zoning, I feel like I have to include my two cents here.

First of all, based on Tiebout sorting, you can tax at whatever level you want, and people will move in and move out based on how it suits your preferences balanced against publicly provided goods and services.

Second of all, property assessments are always regressive, which means that higher valued property will always be underassessed more than lower valued property. And the poor neighborhoods are rental properties, which don't really factor into the discussion at all.

Finally, Florida can have lower property taxes because they have little to no zoning - and it shows. Secondly, they can make up for lower property taxes with higher sales taxes, particularly in the area of tourism, and they offer a lot more home rule options than other states.

In summary, I'm not entirely sure how the headline is supposed to correspond to the article, but the point is that lower property values can be a result of lesser zoning, lower taxes, or the market, but that eventually lower tax bases and revenues will lead to lesser government services, and eventually re-assessment will sort all of that out, and people will re-asjust themselves and their housing consumption to account for it.


 
2008-04-27 01:26:33 AM
Anagrammer: This is similar to Georgia, where so many people conserved water during a drought (as they were asked to do), that the local water utility had to raise rates to compensate for the dip in water usage.


/link pops


not to threadjack, but I heard this is also happening with cigarette taxes. I think ALL taxes are prone to this problem.
 
2008-04-27 01:27:00 AM
jjorsett: One of the few things Californians have done right in the last 30 years is pass Proposition 13, which caps taxes at 1% of property value and only allows one's property tax to increase 2% a year as long as one owns the property. I'd have been taxed out of my home long ago without that. Looks like some other states could use the same remedy.

Prop 13 trivia: The man who spearheaded Proposition 13 was a retired newspaper man and appliance manufacturer named Howard Jarvis, who urged passage of the measure in the name of fiscal responsibility.

You may or may not have heard of him, but I can guarantee you've seen him. He had a cameo appearance in the comedy Airplane!. He's the guy who gets into Striker's cab at the beginning of the movie, and is still sitting there at the end of the movie, as the taxi cab's fare passes $113 (thus playing off his notoriety as a fiscal responsibility advocate) .

www.northcoastjournal.com
 
2008-04-27 01:29:03 AM
THIS IS ALL BUSH'S FAULT!!!!

/getting that out of the way...
 
2008-04-27 01:32:43 AM
Dont worry?
Its okay, Im not living in the land of the bankrupt mortgagee, so Im not worrying, just sitting back and laughing at the poor saps who are.
/hates people who say 'dont worry' when im not worried anyway
 
2008-04-27 01:45:03 AM
"There goes the neighborhood ..."
bp1.blogger.com
 
2008-04-27 01:52:39 AM
Weaver95: You've never met a philly democrat, have you? They really honestly do believe that taxing the hell out of people will make them want to move into an area.

I guess that's not as bad the Republicans who honestly believe killing the troops is supporting them and wars can somehow be funded with corporate welfare and tax cuts to the rich=. Then they biatch because Democrats have to raise taxes to clean up the Republican mess.
 
2008-04-27 01:56:53 AM
Mija: I guess that's not as bad the Republicans who honestly believe killing the troops is supporting them and wars can somehow be funded with corporate welfare and tax cuts to the rich=. Then they biatch because Democrats have to raise taxes to clean up the Republican mess.

i122.photobucket.com
 
2008-04-27 02:30:06 AM
lajimi must not be from Philly/South Jersey.

Yes, the "Philly Democrats" control Burlington county. even the Philly Democrats aren't so totally economically illiterate that they didn't walk away from living in Philly a generation ago.

This article is off though, every municipality in NJ is being reassessed, seeing as how properties haven't been reassessed in some areas since BEFORE the '68 riots in NJ, the whole system is screwed to the moon,

If a town needs $15 million for the town budget from property taxes, the more accurate the reassessment the fairer the burden is spread out amongst the resident and commercial population. Only townspeople who elected douchebags will get screwed by town councils trying to increase the town budget on the backs of the reassessment values.

/lives in working class NJ town, my entire street had assessments increased, but the property tax bills increase at a lower rate than the new subdivisions' taxes.
 
2008-04-27 02:40:48 AM
Anagrammer: This is similar to Georgia, where so many people conserved water during a drought (as they were asked to do), that the local water utility had to raise rates to compensate for the dip in water usage.


/link pops


The better way to deal with this is a separate infrastructure charge from actual water usage.
 
2008-04-27 02:45:33 AM
If it's a fair assessment of the market value, I'm not sure what the problem here is.
 
2008-04-27 02:56:27 AM
Weaver95: OregonVet: If values are falling, they'll find real quick their tax revenue will fall on recent assessments while going up on others.

You've never met a philly democrat, have you? They really honestly do believe that taxing the hell out of people will make them want to move into an area.


Ooo, Laffer Curve!!!!
 
2008-04-27 03:09:47 AM
Bucky Katt: Check out the Florida homestead property tax exemption. It's now portable!

Yes! Let's cut funding to schools as much as possible! Florida is 49th of the 50 states in funding its schools already.
 
2008-04-27 03:21:59 AM
ShaniquaDon'tLiveHereNoMo': Bucky Katt: Check out the Florida homestead property tax exemption. It's now portable!

Yes! Let's cut funding to schools as much as possible! Florida is 49th of the 50 states in funding its schools already.


Eh, it's the Republican strategy. The poor and illiterate will vote for the "God-fearing Christians" they keep bringing up. Why else are they so against the teacher's unions?
 
2008-04-27 04:38:33 AM
If property taxes rise, doesn't that mean that the cost of owning a home rises and the purchase price of the home drops to compensate?

No? I wouldn't know since here we don't have property tax as such.
 
2008-04-27 05:32:19 AM
Bucky Katt: Come to Florida where we are cutting taxes!

Link (new window)


Yeah, but the weather gets a bit too breezy in the fall, for me.
 
2008-04-27 05:47:20 AM
Missouri could use a prop 13 for sure.

My property taxes went up 200% in one shot.
 
2008-04-27 05:51:43 AM
jburgher: As a grad student in public policy...

And the poor neighborhoods are rental properties, which don't really factor into the discussion at all.


Is this really what they're teaching you in grad school? You should ask for a refund of your tuition if it is. Then head down to any MLK blvd anywhere in the country and see if you can find any rental properties there.
 
2008-04-27 06:48:09 AM
Drammach: Missouri could use a prop 13 for sure.

My property taxes went up 200% in one shot.


On a house worth $50, it probably wasn't a big deal.
 
2008-04-27 07:13:07 AM
If the taxes are high enough, they will attract a better class of taxpayers.
 
2008-04-27 07:50:14 AM
My house is currently appraised for probably twice the actual value I could sell it for. Farking crooks, pisses me off.
 
2008-04-27 08:11:53 AM
I stopped paying my property taxes years ago. I've been using the money to buy ammo. Watch for me on the news in a few more years.
 
2008-04-27 08:20:24 AM
jjorsett: One of the few things Californians have done right in the last 30 years is pass Proposition 13, which caps taxes at 1% of property value and only allows one's property tax to increase 2% a year as long as one owns the property. I'd have been taxed out of my home long ago without that. Looks like some other states could use the same remedy.

That's why homes cost insane amounts there. People who have been somewhere a while can't afford to move, or their taxes will go up 1000%
 
2008-04-27 08:44:54 AM
I received notice that, because of a law quietly passed by the legislature, my property would be reassessed. Why? Tax revenues have fallen and there is a statewide budget shortfall. So property taxes are being increased by 40%. Did I mention that this is the third reassessment in seven years? Meanwhile the same "anti-tax" Republican morons that currently control our legislature are wanting to do away with ad valorum taxes on automobiles and pay for this by increasing state and local option sales taxes. If successful, we'll save a couple hundred bucks on auto taxes, but our property taxes will go up $1200/yr and the sales tax in many counties will be 10%. No effort is being made, however, to find out what has happened to the $18B the state department of transportation can't seem to fine.
 
2008-04-27 08:57:35 AM
What's happening here amuses (bemuses) me more.

Rich morons are coming in and buying $150,000 homes for $300,000. Then they complain that they don't want to pay the school taxes that are based upon the value of their homes. (The same people are more than happy to fund the feds and their war, though. War is more important than education, I guess.)

The other part of this issue is that the people who have lived here forever in their modest little homes are now taxed at a higher rate because their property values have artificially inflated because these rich morons overpaid for houses in the same neighborhood.
 
2008-04-27 08:58:45 AM
And another thing -

ISN'T IT TIME FOR ANOTHER TEA PARTY?
 
2008-04-27 09:18:24 AM
Twizang: ISN'T IT TIME FOR ANOTHER TEA PARTY?

Tea parties are for wusses. Try burning a warship.
 
2008-04-27 09:18:40 AM
lajimi: Weaver95: OregonVet: If values are falling, they'll find real quick their tax revenue will fall on recent assessments while going up on others.

You've never met a philly democrat, have you? They really honestly do believe that taxing the hell out of people will make them want to move into an area.

FYI, "Philly democrats" have ZERO authority over NEW JERSEY (RTFA) towns. Since the state has drastically cut, and in some cases eliminated state aid to municipalities the answer to this unfunded mandate should be no. Does no work for you? The state no longer has the threat of withholding state funds from the towns to hold over their heads.


Do you think that would stop them from trying?
 
2008-04-27 09:25:28 AM
Twizang: What's happening here amuses (bemuses) me more.

Rich morons are coming in and buying $150,000 homes for $300,000. Then they complain that they don't want to pay the school taxes that are based upon the value of their homes. (The same people are more than happy to fund the feds and their war, though. War is more important than education, I guess.)

The other part of this issue is that the people who have lived here forever in their modest little homes are now taxed at a higher rate because their property values have artificially inflated because these rich morons overpaid for houses in the same neighborhood.


I know at least one family that this has happened to. A new development was started for Philadelphia white collar workers (because it is too farking expensive to try and live in Philly if you work there) Quickly all of the homes in the area were 'reassessed' using the projected value for the homes in this new development.

You quickly went from homes that were valued at 80,000 in a sane market, to over 500k. 2 years later almost 1/2 of them were on the market for 150k at best. When I spoke with some of the owners, their number 1 reason for selling was that their property taxes were now unaffordable.


(The reason it went to 500k, is this new development was built on .25 to .5 acre plots, so the original homes in the area were on 5-10 acre plots. The assessor decided that they too could sell their property in .5 acre plots and make a bundle. Too bad the dumb shiat didn't realize that these homes were 50 miles from Philadelphia and anyone currently living there wouldn't be so stupid to try and commute 50 miles each day (at least 10 miles to the train station)

I suppose though, gas prices are thankfully ending this friggen urban sprawl blight.
 
2008-04-27 09:31:43 AM
Fear the Clam: Twizang: ISN'T IT TIME FOR ANOTHER TEA PARTY?

Tea parties are for wusses. Try burning a warship.


If you want me to click a wikilink, shouldn't you at least make sure there is a wikipage with info on it first?

i'll google it instead.
 
2008-04-27 11:18:43 AM
Bureaucrats just want your money.
The difference between government and mafia bosses is misguided idea that governments are legitimate.
 
2008-04-27 11:33:16 AM
i110.photobucket.com
 
2008-04-27 11:43:12 AM
Twizang: If you want me to click a wikilink, shouldn't you at least make sure there is a wikipage with info on it first?

Farking software drops out diacriticals (or their ASCII representation) from the URL. I should have checked.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaspée_Affair
 
2008-04-27 12:08:01 PM
Bucky Katt: Come to Florida where we are cutting taxes!


That's ok, the $200 you save from your property taxes will be more than eaten up by the spike in your homeowner's insurance!

/plus your county will be firin' a whole bunch of teachers this year!
 
2008-04-27 12:53:55 PM
Anagrammer: Mija: I guess that's not as bad the Republicans who honestly believe killing the troops is supporting them and wars can somehow be funded with corporate welfare and tax cuts to the rich=. Then they biatch because Democrats have to raise taxes to clean up the Republican mess.

So someone speaks the clear truth about how the politicians you support (small assumption here) are blindly and mindlessly destroying thousands of our country's young people, and draining our already empty coffers, and you throw out the Whambulance?

Wow. Just wow.
Guess that speaks volumes about you and your kind.
 
2008-04-27 02:43:52 PM
jjorsett: One of the few things Californians have done right in the last 30 years is pass Proposition 13, which caps taxes at 1% of property value and only allows one's property tax to increase 2% a year as long as one owns the property. I'd have been taxed out of my home long ago without that. Looks like some other states could use the same remedy.

That is actually the worst thing we've done in the last thirty years. First off my dad pays property taxes of $500/yr, the young couple a next door pay $5000/yr. How is that fair? If I inherit the house, then I can just keep it, rent it out and pay get this $500/yr property tax.

Of course if you buy a new house then you loose the property tax exemption, well actually you can sell your house once and only once, the better to extract your equity for retirement. But otherwise prop 13 discourages people from moving which reduces the supply of housing, and riases the prices. It get worse because governments can't tax housing comeasurate with the amount of serives the people living in those houses consume, they try to make it all up on building fees for new construction again driving prices up. Second, government sees people as just a resource drain and commercial development and businesses as a cash cow, which leads to all sorts of bad stuff. Large businesses play once municipality off another, small business suffer high taxation. And muni's politically couldn't give a squat about home owners because they don't pay.

Finnally for me, under the post prop 13 world the state governement takes all of the property tax revenue and then redistributes it to the muni's, instead of before where the muni's riased taxes, took in the money and used it to pay for services. That increases the power of the state government at the expense of the muni and country governements.
 
2008-04-27 03:01:27 PM
Of course if you buy a new house then you loose the property tax exemption, well actually you can sell your house once and only once, the better to extract your equity for retirement.

You are under the assumption that all people sell their houses. Lots of richer folks do not. Prop 13 also applies to commercial and residential properties. So the smart people created small companies and sold their apartment buildings, strip shopping center, house, etc. to these companies. Now, you don't sell the apartment complex, shopping center, etc. - you just sell the company that owns it. This allows it to retain the original Prop 13 cost basis from 1978. Only the little people pay property taxes.

The cities are all approaching a day of reckoning as the taxes paid by commercial entities keeps decreasing and a higher and higher burden must fall on new residential properties. With the decrease in new housing, there is gonna be a big implosion in the next 18 months.
 
2008-04-27 04:04:23 PM
Taxes will and should go up. If your house has gained in value you should pay taxes on that amount.
 
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