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(WYFF)   Real church marquee in SC: "Obama, Osama, hmmm are they brothers?"   (wyff4.com) divider line 1123
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21312 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Apr 2008 at 6:47 AM (6 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2008-04-22 11:05:51 AM
img387.imageshack.us


Damn you, Odama!
 
2008-04-22 11:07:10 AM
Murkanen: Babbs:

I always find it amazing that atheism makes up about 2% of the population, yet about 90% of people on Fark claim to be athiests.

Tip: When complaining about generalizing it is best not to take a handful of Farkers who frequent the religious threads and using them as an extrapolation point for the rest of Fark.

/unless you like looking like a hypocrite, in which case carry on


FTW
 
2008-04-22 11:07:56 AM
Croooow!: Mercutio74: The more I think about it, a good idea would be to create a multiple choice test you have to pass in order to vote.

Just some basic knowledge questions about world and domestic issues. 50% or you can't vote.

If you don't understand why that is a totally ridiculous idea, maybe you are the one who should not be voting.


Why?

For example, do you think that someone who can't name the current Sec of State should be voting?
 
2008-04-22 11:08:19 AM
I though Obama was only half a brother. Isn't his mom white?
 
2008-04-22 11:08:24 AM
GilRuiz1:

If my intention had been to say that atheism = evil monsters, I would have made a poster with Stalin as a rancor monster or something. But that's not my point. My point is only that imagining that a world without religion will somehow be rainbows and puppies is simply misguided.

An atheistic religion is still a religion. People have suggested others who commited atrocities without invoking either theistic or atheistic religions in past threads on this (my suggestion was the robber barrons and McCarthy's witchhunt for Communists) to try and improve your point. Otherwise it devolves into, well, folks telling you that using "Imagine no religion" on evil atheistic religions as a counterpoint to the evil theistic religions that others bring up doesn't really help your support of religion in general.
 
2008-04-22 11:09:02 AM
If anybody that has been prominently involved in this thread works in the Harvard Medical/Longwood area in Boston, let me know so I can buy you a coffee. Nobody really seems to be trying all that hard and a lot of it is really incoherent, even for fark standards. Let's shape it up, people.
 
2008-04-22 11:10:04 AM
GilRuiz1: "No, I trot them out in order to prove that "no religion" will not bring about a utopia."

Who thinks it will, other than Communists? Atheism |= utopianism. The claim isn't that the world will become perfect with religion removed, it's that we'll have "99 problems but religion won't be one of 'em", so to speak.

GilRuiz1: "And the tons of people who misunderstand my statement as somehow attempting to draw a direct causal line between atheism and dictatorship completely miss the point. If my intention had been to say that atheism = evil monsters, I would have made a poster with Stalin as a rancor monster or something."

Oh, my bad. But yeah next time use the Rancor, but add a top hat, monocle and vriginia slim. Who wouldn't love such an affable old fellow!

GilRuiz1: "But that's not my point. My point is only that imagining that a world without religion will somehow be rainbows and puppies is simply misguided."

Totally, nobody thinks that. Religion's not even the direct cause of strife in most cases; it's more often a symptom of suffering than the cause. The problem is that people turn to it when they cannot better their conditions, and they become credulous and vulnerable to radicalized forms, which leads to more strife, which causes more suffering, etc. etc. it's a causal loop clusterfark that can't be avoided by outlawing religion; we'd have to improve living conditions, health care and education in the region until religion vanishes by itself, which is what happened in many European nations like Sweden, Denmark, Norway and so on. When you try to force it to vanish, that's when you begin to tread into Stalinist territory.
 
2008-04-22 11:10:16 AM
Etchy333: Dear South,

You know how there's the long standing hope that the South will "rise again"? Now's your chance! Go ahead and secede, we probably won't put up much of a fight.

Love,
Civilization


Yeah, we should always act out against anyone who generalizes and stereotypes entire classes of people based on the race, nationality, or location of birth.

I am pretty sure that Civilization is not so happy to have you as their spokesperson.
 
2008-04-22 11:10:20 AM
Mercutio74: Why?

For example, do you think that someone who can't name the current Sec of State should be voting?


Yeah and we should make sure they can read (new window) as well.

What could possibly go wrong?
 
2008-04-22 11:10:46 AM
Jster422 Nah. I think you're one of those imbeciles

Insults and loud voices don't win many arguments.


Wow. This close to actual irony, when in fact, you just can't staple together a cohesive stance in two paragraphs.

So close.
 
2008-04-22 11:11:15 AM
bunner: Nah. I think you have no farking idea what you're talking about and you're one of those imbeciles who try to paint atheism as a religion and atheists as adherents to some unspecified dogmatic belief system, so you can twist it into your own weird reality and attack it from the same grounds you feel threatened on.

yeah.. I'm all threatened up in here by people who take the stance that the lack of faith in a deity is somehow a red badge of intellectual courage.

Lawsy me.

And it's funny you should be an insulting shiatbag, because I think you're one of those imbeciles who likes to go around painting broad and mind presuppositions from the comfort of your mother's basements and foist them off on people whom you hope can't tell the difference between broad and mind suppositions and anything pertinent or relevant to anything but the roses that your piss must surely smell of.

It's starting to look like Halloween with all these straw men. : )


Why not go review our posts and tally up the strawmen and shiatbag insults?

I'm still waiting to see if you can put out your experiences of atheistic proselytism and evangelism for us to comment on.
 
2008-04-22 11:12:03 AM
felixstrange: "Have you been to FreeRepublic.com? I think you might be a little "adorable" as well."

I specified websites with the sort of demographics she was complaining about, and included finding one's way to such sites as one of the filtering mechanisms that might result in a primarily secular readership.
 
2008-04-22 11:12:32 AM
Murkanen: An atheistic religion is still a religion. People have suggested others who commited atrocities without invoking either theistic or atheistic religions in past threads on this (my suggestion was the robber barrons and McCarthy's witchhunt for Communists) to try and improve your point. Otherwise it devolves into, well, folks telling you that using "Imagine no religion" on evil atheistic religions as a counterpoint to the evil theistic religions that others bring up doesn't really help your support of religion in general.


Well, I thought that getting away from the Stalin/Mao image would help, but it still got misunderstood. As you remember from that past thread, I didn't want to use McCarthy because he was a Catholic, and the robber barons weren't famously atheistic. They're good examples, yes, but not as showy as the famous leaders of Communist nations. I need to think of others, then. :-(
 
2008-04-22 11:12:58 AM
felixstrange: Mercutio74: Why?

For example, do you think that someone who can't name the current Sec of State should be voting?

Yeah and we should make sure they can read (new window) as well.

What could possibly go wrong?


Well, they could give the test orally to those who can't read. And in any event, if you can't read, how on earth would you know who you wanted to vote for in the booth in the first place? The object would not to be to disenfranchise any particular group, simply to weed out those who have no idea what they're voting for beyond what their pastor or moveon.org told them.
 
2008-04-22 11:13:55 AM
Hagbardr: Damn you, Odama!

What game was that?
 
2008-04-22 11:14:24 AM
Zamboro: I specified websites with the sort of demographics she was complaining about, and included finding one's way to such sites as one of the filtering mechanisms that might result in a primarily secular readership.

Oh, I see. Creating a Fark account qualifies as a benchmark of intellectual achievement. My mistake. Carry on.
 
2008-04-22 11:15:24 AM
Mercutio74: do you think that someone who can't name the current Sec of State should be voting?

the very basic concept of Democracy is to allow for every citizen to have a voice, even those that you think are stupid. Get over yourself.
 
2008-04-22 11:17:16 AM
Mercutio74:
Well, they could give the test orally to those who can't read. And in any event, if you can't read, how on earth would you know who you wanted to vote for in the booth in the first place? The object would not to be to disenfranchise any particular group, simply to weed out those who have no idea what they're voting for beyond what their pastor or moveon.org told them.


Did you even bother to read the link?

"...the literacy test gained infamy as a means for denying the franchise to African Americans. Adopted by a number of southern states, the literacy test was applied in a patently unfair manner, as it was used to disfranchise many literate southern blacks while allowing many illiterate southern whites to vote. The literacy test, combined with other discriminatory requirements, effectively disfranchised the vast majority of African Americans in the South from the 1890s until the 1960s."
 
2008-04-22 11:18:03 AM
Zamboro: Who thinks it will, other than Communists?

Well, the people who made that poster, I suppose. Do you happen to know which group came up with the Twin Towers no-religion image? I guess we can pin it on them.


Zamboro: But yeah next time use the Rancor, but add a top hat, monocle and vriginia slim. Who wouldn't love such an affable old fellow!

Oooo, if I had the time, I would make that!


Zamboro: The problem is that people turn to it when they cannot better their conditions, and they become credulous and vulnerable to radicalized forms, which leads to more strife, which causes more suffering, etc. etc. it's a causal loop clusterfark that can't be avoided by outlawing religion; we'd have to improve living conditions, health care and education in the region until religion vanishes by itself, which is what happened in many European nations like Sweden, Denmark, Norway and so on.

That is true, that's what would happen.
 
2008-04-22 11:18:09 AM
GilRuiz1:

Well, I thought that getting away from the Stalin/Mao image would help, but it still got misunderstood.

From the comments I thought that was the one you posted. I can't say that I recognize the short and pudgy fellow, but since I'm not aware of any personality cult relating to Fidel I'd say he's probably one of your better choices so far.

/who was the short and pudgy fellow?
 
2008-04-22 11:19:37 AM
Papaw: The sad part is some people will read that sign and take it seriously.

Those people were not voting for Obama anyway, if they were voting at all.
 
2008-04-22 11:20:27 AM
I love how so many Christians think that lying is going to convince us that their religion is a superior form of morality. Every time some asshat like this pastor, or a Young Earth-creationist lies like that, it convinces me more that a) a lot of Christians are spiteful, hateful people, incapable of doing the right thing unless the big invisible man in the sky tells them to, and b) that Christianity is ineffective in making people behave more morally, and may actually make them behave more immorally (by its own standards of morality).
 
2008-04-22 11:21:13 AM
GilRuiz1:

So you can seperate communism/utopianism from atheism, right? As much crap as you catch from us, you ought to at least admit that atheists on the whole are scrupulous people. There are few to none of us in prison (based on registration data going in, although certainly many convert to secure better treatment) we are the brighter on average if the statistics are to be believed (or if you place any stock in statistics in the first place) and I'd be more inclined to place my trust in someone whose concept of right and wrong is rooted in the historically rich and solidly founded study of ethics than someone who lives according to the handful of carefully picked out Biblical strictures they can still obey in modern times without being arrested.

Just saying, we're good people. Communists? Not so much. But we don't like them either.
 
2008-04-22 11:21:17 AM
Mercutio74: Croooow!: Mercutio74: The more I think about it, a good idea would be to create a multiple choice test you have to pass in order to vote.

Just some basic knowledge questions about world and domestic issues. 50% or you can't vote.

If you don't understand why that is a totally ridiculous idea, maybe you are the one who should not be voting.

Why?

For example, do you think that someone who can't name the current Sec of State should be voting?


I think I gotta go with you on this one pal.

Voting is a privilege - not a right. You can be of any political/religious/ethnic persuasion, but if you are going to have a hand in the mechanics of our country - you should be educated enough to know what you are voting for.
 
2008-04-22 11:22:20 AM
felixstrange: Did you even bother to read the link?

"...the literacy test gained infamy as a means for denying the franchise to African Americans. Adopted by a number of southern states, the literacy test was applied in a patently unfair manner, as it was used to disfranchise many literate southern blacks while allowing many illiterate southern whites to vote. The literacy test, combined with other discriminatory requirements, effectively disfranchised the vast majority of African Americans in the South from the 1890s until the 1960s."


I did read the link. I'm not interested in disenfranchising any particular demographic except for people who are uninformed as to even the basic facts of their democracy. The literacy test was expressly used to disenfranchise a specific group with a specific political bent. My proposal is not that.

And here's a newsflash... people are already disenfranchised today in a far more underhanded manner. It was done in 2000 using names of prisoners to disenfranchise similarly named (but innocent) African Americans in Florida.
 
2008-04-22 11:22:38 AM
Zamboro: Just saying, we're good people.

I like how self-deprecating and modest you are best of all!
 
2008-04-22 11:22:45 AM
Mnemia: I love how so many Christians think that lying is going to convince us that their religion is a superior form of morality. Every time some asshat like this pastor, or a Young Earth-creationist lies like that, it convinces me more that a) a lot of Christians are spiteful, hateful people, incapable of doing the right thing unless the big invisible man in the sky tells them to, and b) that Christianity is ineffective in making people behave more morally, and may actually make them behave more immorally (by its own standards of morality).

true.

i just farkin' hate christians. every one of them.
 
2008-04-22 11:23:17 AM
Croooow!: the very basic concept of Democracy is to allow for every citizen to have a voice, even those that you think are stupid. Get over yourself.

Hey, stupid people should have the vote... it's the uninformed (or misinformed) I'm worried about.
 
2008-04-22 11:23:17 AM
Number one reason people become Christians?

To get laid.
 
2008-04-22 11:23:37 AM
SnakeLee: If anybody that has been prominently involved in this thread works in the Harvard Medical/Longwood area in Boston, let me know so I can buy you a coffee. Nobody really seems to be trying all that hard and a lot of it is really incoherent, even for fark standards. Let's shape it up, people.

A Harvard anecdote perhaps?

I visited Harvard years ago. While walking around campus, I encountered a professor of English. I ask him, "Where's the library at?" He looked down his nose at me and said, "Young man, this is Haravard, we do not end sentences with prepositions." So, I looked back at him and said, "So sorry, sir. Where is the library at, asshole?"
 
2008-04-22 11:23:40 AM
Croooow!: Mercutio74: do you think that someone who can't name the current Sec of State should be voting?

the very basic concept of Democracy is to allow for every citizen to have a voice, even those that you think are stupid. Get over yourself.


Actually... (new window)
 
2008-04-22 11:24:26 AM
GilRuiz: "Well, the people who made that poster, I suppose. Do you happen to know which group came up with the Twin Towers no-religion image? I guess we can pin it on them."

That's not the implication of the poster at all. It's meant to remind people that the 9/11 hijackers were themselves deeply religious, and had to be in order to be convinced to participate in what amounts to elaborately orchestrated mass murder-suicide.

I can see where you might get the utopian angle, from the light shining between the buildings, but that's not what was implied. I know this, having been told as much by the people responsible for the design, who post on Dawkins' website (yes, your nemesis! HISSSS, BOOO, and so on.)
 
2008-04-22 11:24:27 AM
Zamboro: So you can seperate communism/utopianism from atheism, right?

Christianity is also a form of utopianism when it is practiced in an extreme way (for example, the way that fundies practice it). Utopian ideologies (including fundie Christianity, fundie Islam, communism, extreme capitalism...) are the greatest threat to the future of humanity, because the perfect is so often the enemy of the good. We can never create a perfect society, and we shouldn't destroy what we have trying.
 
2008-04-22 11:24:55 AM
Cyclometh: Stay classy, Christians.

And you people wonder why I can't stand most of you. Next time you ask why people don't like you or your cult, add this to the LONG ASS FARKING LIST.


Yep because all Christians are just like this. Hitler wasn't a Christian so I guess you're just like him. We'll add the killing of 2 million people to your list.

/oh yes I went there.
 
2008-04-22 11:25:03 AM
No one with any brains would take that sign seriously.

And no one with any dignity would continue to be a member of that "church."

Get politics the hell out of churches. Left-wing politics out of "black churches", and Right-wing politics out of the other churches.
 
2008-04-22 11:25:14 AM
barjockey: Voting is a privilege - not a right. You can be of any political/religious/ethnic persuasion, but if you are going to have a hand in the mechanics of our country - you should be educated enough to know what you are voting for.

Voting is the most basic American right there is. Even these uneducated people you think are too stupid to vote understand that much.
 
2008-04-22 11:25:57 AM
Being sons of Yo' Mama, that makes them brothers, duh!
 
2008-04-22 11:26:04 AM
felixstrange: "I like how self-deprecating and modest you are best of all!"

Since when does modesty entail self-depreciation? Since when is self-depreciation in any way healthy?
 
2008-04-22 11:26:38 AM
Zamboro: Babbs: "Guess what, guys? Not all Christians are like that! Generalize much?"

Consider for a moment that not everyone in the world lives in America; of the subset of the world population that is Christian, what percentage do you suppose live in third world countries? Overwhelmingly, they are orthodox; creationists, sexually conservative, anti-gay and so on. Even within the United States, the slight majority of Christians are creationists, and a large enough majority opposes homosexual marriage that it is still illegal in most of the states.

You're right, not all Christians are like that. The vast majority are worse.

Babbs: "I always find it amazing that atheism makes up about 2% of the population, yet about 90% of people on Fark claim to be athiests."

Claim? What, you think there can't possibly be that many? You're adorable. Anyway, the internet has a disproportionately large number of atheists simply because one must be at least intelligent enough to make use of a computer and find their way to sites like Fark, Digg, Slashdot and so on in order to be represented in those places. Offensive as you may find it there's a well established negative correlation between intelligence and religiosity, and at first glance that would seem to be a plausible explanation for why most FARKers are atheistic.

Babbs: "The ignorant statements about Christianity also make most of you look just as ignorant and stupid as that guy in SC."

What ignorant statements, specifically? I'm guessing that any comment critical or derisive of your cherished religion is "ignorant", am I right? Keep in mind most of us were religious before we gave it up, and are intimately familiar with the Bible, moreso than most who remain within the faith. It's precisely this familiarity with the source material which leads many to conclude that it's simply another religion among thousands.


Somewhat interesting points, though I have to say that I believe the vast majority of "Christians" in the world are like most Christians here in the US. They indulge, drink, fark, swear, play poker, dance, and have "idols" just like the rest of normal humanity. Every country and every denomination (well, except maybe for UU) has its lunatic fringe that demands that we all adopt their particularly ascetic mindset.

But I think most of world Christianity, whether it's in the United States, Western Europe, or sub-Saharan Africa, is composed of people who are Christian because their parents were Christian, and their parents before them, and so on; or they had a "come to Jesus" moment when they were young, idealistic and impressionable, and have since chilled out. They have their children baptized, get married in church, possibly attend mass on Christmas and Easter, and when life has gotten shiatty, and have a Christian burial. The vast majority of Christians don't go out hunting gays or torching synagogues or mosques or other churches. They're people who eat, breathe, shiat and jerk off just like you and me. Now, the lunatic fringes in less "civilized" countries may be scarier, but that's in part because their host countries are lawless.

As for atheists being smarter... fark, I don't know. I highly doubt a causation between the two. Many modern scientists have, through their education and exposure to Christian anti-intellectualists, adopted atheist philosophies. But there are many scientists, Newton included, who were also clergy, and without whom we would not have the body of scientific knowledge we have. (there are still physicists and other natural scientists in Britain who also hold ordained ministry in the CofE)

Elements of the Catholic Church, particularly monastic orders with no deep political ties with the Vatican; and medieval Islam were among the best friends that science ever had.

I've met plenty of mentally deficient atheists and brilliant religious people, and vice versa. I think most religion allows one to accept the literary and ethical tradition of the faith while still allowing scientific inquiry and acceptance of theories that do not mesh with literal biblical accounts. I think the idea that scripture must be accepted as literally true to have value is a modern conceit.

I'm firmly religious and yet I accept widely-credited scientific theories like the "Big Bang" and macroevolution. It hasn't weakened my devotion to religious tradition or my value of scientific inquiry. And last I checked, I am no idiot.
 
2008-04-22 11:26:59 AM
Most Christians are hateful. The try to hide it behind a loving and caring exterior, but it is there. Deep in their hearts, they hate all non-Christians.

As a Christian, would want a non-Christian teaching at your local school? Would you vote for a non-Christian? Would you vote for Obama, even though he is an Islamist?
 
2008-04-22 11:27:17 AM
BorgiaGinz: Belief in Christianity requires the adoption of a set of principles, like hurting gay people and denying evolution.

NO. WRONG. Go outside and look around and actually interact with some Christians. You'll find they're a lot more tolerant and science-believing than you think. There are some nutjobs, yes, but to say that "belief in Christianity requires the adoption of a set of principles, like hurting gay people and denying evolution" is simply wrong.

(PS - Pope John Paul II. Believed in evolution. Not a Christian, you say?)
 
2008-04-22 11:27:17 AM
Mercutio74:

I did read the link. I'm not interested in disenfranchising any particular demographic except for people who are uninformed as to even the basic facts of their democracy

So we'll just put you in charge of this test then?

The literacy test was expressly used to disenfranchise a specific group with a specific political bent.

And in this enlightened age, that could never, ever happen, right?

And here's a newsflash... people are already disenfranchised today in a far more underhanded manner. It was done in 2000 using names of prisoners to disenfranchise similarly named (but innocent) African Americans in Florida.

Here's another newsflash...

The Felony Disqualification hanky-panky in 2000 doesn't even begin to compare to 100 years of institutionalized racism.
 
2008-04-22 11:27:27 AM
Croooow!: Voting is the most basic American right there is. Even these uneducated people you think are too stupid to vote understand that much.

What about ex-felons?

Is voting an intrinsic right or isn't it?
 
2008-04-22 11:27:36 AM
thatvoiceguy: Sorry about that asshat John Cornyn, though. That's totally our fault. Ugh.

I didn't vote for that loser ... or Kay Bailey Hutchison either. Asshats both of them.
 
2008-04-22 11:27:40 AM
Andric: How does one do that, exactly?

Post on Fark and go to atheist meetings (yes they have them). Atheists are the laziest activists I have ever known. They do literally nothing about or with their atheism but post on the internet and pat each other on the back. Occasionally they lobby to get prayer removed from school or insult someone to their face about their faith.

I guess we should be glad they're not burning churches or rounding up clergy, but it's not because they don't want to, it's because they are cowardly and lazy.

Sorry, atheists, but you know it's true. A lot of your ideologies were developed trying to get an extra hour and a half of sleep, and that pedigree is not going to lead to action.
 
2008-04-22 11:27:49 AM
Crude: No one with any brains would take that sign seriously.

And no one with any dignity would continue to be a member of that "church."

Get politics the hell out of churches. Left-wing politics out of "black churches", and Right-wing politics out of the other churches.


So wait, are you advocating some sort of "separation" between "churches" and the affairs of "state"?
 
2008-04-22 11:28:24 AM
danlpoon: Number one reason people become Christians?

To get laid.


I've said it before and I'll say it again: 95% of hateful human actions are motivated at least partially by three things: desire for money, desire for power, and desire for sex.
 
2008-04-22 11:28:29 AM
Occam's Chainsaw: nopokerface: OMG Angiepants: He was raised atheist.

In a Muslim school?

"Attended a madrassa briefly" != "raised in a Muslim school"


"Attended a school" != "Attended a madrassa" either... unless, of course, you believe that all schools where Obama lived were madrassas. It was only "Muslim" in the sense that a majority Muslim population attended.

I grew up in the United States goig to schools with a majority Christian population. I guess I went to Christian schools, eh?
 
2008-04-22 11:28:38 AM
Croooow!: Voting is the most basic American right there is.

Not according to the Supreme Court (new window)
 
2008-04-22 11:28:44 AM
Ronald Wilson Reagan
(6) (6) (6)

Undeniable proof that republicans are the devil.
 
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