Master's in Economics, PhD candidate

Used to love wrestling, up until about 5 years ago. Favorite matches:

*Sting-Ric Flair at Great American Bash '90
*The original NWA War Games (1987)
*1992 Royal Rumble, Flair wins the match
*Shawn Michaels-Triple H, Summerslam 2002
*"Stone Cold" Steve Austin-Bret Hart, Wrestlemania XIII

Can'tLetYouDoThatStarFox: Well, it would mean that I won the bet. And it would imply that smart people tend not to like wrestling, although how strong an implication it would be is very debatable.

Win the bet, yes, but I disagree that it would have any strong implication or that "most intelligent people will not like wrestling."

Like I said above, I could find 5 intelligent Physicists -- including Nobel Prize nominees and winners -- and I could probably get a sound trashing of Law from each of them. Would that make a strong implication that most smart people tend not to go into Law?

I just think it's a flawed and meaningless survey on the face of it. It might be an easy bet to win though.

jaedreth: The guy who plays the Undertaker is Mark Calloway, and he's from Texas, not Death Valley. And no, Kane isn't his rl brother.

Whatever. Next I guess you'll assert that he didn't really die and come back to life? ;P

William Regal defeats CM Punk for King of the Ring honors, wow

saintstryfe: In wrestling, an abortion is when an angle is killed because no one likes it.

/I can tie up everything in a neat little PACKAGE.

Well, what do they call tying things up into a neat little package then SMART GUY????

I remember going to a wrestling event with my dad once when I was young. The only intro I can remember anymore is Tugboat's. It cracks me up every time I think about it.

Can'tLetYouDoThatStarFox: Arbitrator: Can'tLetYouDoThatStarFox: I consider it probable that most intelligent people will not like wrestling. Understand? I never said that it would prove that no intelligent people like wrestling.

Shoot, I am guilty of mixing up your point as well.

In that case, since we agree your survey has no wider implications, I think we also agree it's meaningless...

Well, it would mean that I won the bet. And it would imply that smart people tend not to like wrestling, although how strong an implication it would be is very debatable.

1) People who like wrestling don't fit into any one nice neat little package. There are some RICH people (athletes, rock and pop stars, politicians) who love the WWE. 2) Intelligence has NOTHING to do with a fondness for World Wrestling Entertainment (the name says it all, it's a show...).

Furthermore, these fine men and women put their bodies on the line for the sake of our entertainment. They put on a show. Fight shows, where they're really fighting, like UFC, get BORING if the two people fighting are too close to each other in terms of skill. Boxing has become far more boring than usual. And that's saying something. The fine entertainers at the WWE put themselves in more jeopardy than stuntmen and stuntwomen who do the dangerous stunts you see in your favorite movies.

You can get REALLY hurt in this biz.

Yet they are always trying to minimize said risks while maximizing the APPEARANCE of injury so they can craft these storylines of betrayal and vendetta... It's like a soap opera for men.

Arbitrator: Like I said above, I could find 5 intelligent Physicists -- including Nobel Prize nominees and winners -- and I could probably get a sound trashing of Law from each of them. Would that make a strong implication that most smart people tend not to go into Law?

Well heck, any 5 random lawyers you ask will probably tell you not to go into law...I'll be the first.

I just don't understand the argument. As a scientist I'm not all that impressed with the research methods utilized by the individuals on Mythbusters, but I like the show. Most novels I've read are "fake" but they are still good.

Boobies: William Regal defeats CM Punk for King of the Ring honors, wow

Not really. Regal gets heat being in the tournie. CM Punk doesn't need it, he's over as a Diner Egg anyway.

Wait, Undertaker and Kane aren't brothers? Kane didn't really fark the corpse of Katie Vick? Next you are going to tell me that Monica and Chandler aren't REALLY married or that Harold and Kumar weren't actually arrested for terrorism?

saintstryfe: Boobies: William Regal defeats CM Punk for King of the Ring honors, wow

Not really. Regal gets heat being in the tournie. CM Punk doesn't need it, he's over as a Diner Egg anyway.

Clever filter ownage right there...

Boobies: jaedreth: The guy who plays the Undertaker is Mark Calloway, and he's from Texas, not Death Valley. And no, Kane isn't his rl brother.

Whatever. Next I guess you'll assert that he didn't really die and come back to life? ;P

William Regal defeats CM Punk for King of the Ring honors, wow

Oh 'The Undertaker' did die and come back. Several times. The WWE's botching of the whole Ministry of Darkness storyline really stole a lot of Taker's power, and diminished Kane. However, they're finally getting it back into full force.

And as for Mark Calloway and Glen Jacobs (Kane), they're doing just fine.

Can'tLetYouDoThatStarFox: Well heck, any 5 random lawyers you ask will probably tell you not to go into law...I'll be the first.

LOL. Fair enough.

My point still stands though. A survey of 5 isn't strong enough to make the statement "most x will say y." You'd have to isolate out all the other random variables that may be covariates with x.

That being said, why DID you go into law then? I am going into science and half the time I feel like I'm missing out on financial security....

jaedreth: Intelligence has NOTHING to do with a fondness for World Wrestling Entertainment

You can't definitively say that. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. The fact that some intelligent people like wrestling doesn't mean that there aren't 10 borderline-retarded trailer trash fans for every one of them. Neither of us knows what the overall trend looks like (although I have my strong suspicions.)

I remember seeing a really good pick with Barack's head on The Rock's body that said "Can You smell what Barack is cooking?" - anyone have that?

Can'tLetYouDoThatStarFox: borderline-retarded trailer trash

Jesus Christ are you an ass. I bet you don't even see it.

I'm just curious, does living in a trailer imply trash? Does being borderline-retarded imply a trailer? What justification do you use for referring to people as borderline-retarded trailer trash? Exactly where is that acceptable in your world of apparent privilege and education? Is this the "cultured" part of you?

Can'tLetYouDoThatStarFox: jaedreth: Intelligence has NOTHING to do with a fondness for World Wrestling Entertainment

You can't definitively say that. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. The fact that some intelligent people like wrestling doesn't mean that there aren't 10 borderline-retarded trailer trash fans for every one of them. Neither of us knows what the overall trend looks like (although I have my strong suspicions.)

You're starting with a biased and skewed assumption. You are assuming that the basic foundation of fandom of a particular show is a demographic that you're asserting. It's a self supported assertion, an assertion and an assumption. In other words, it's Rhetoric.

Do you understand the difference between Rhetoric and Logic?

Probably not.

Whether a person likes something or not depends on the person's individual TASTES... Not their income. Not how they're raised in their family. Not their job. Not their nationality.

The world is full of unique individuals. And to classify an entire group by a stereotype is just narrow minded as all fark.

It's like saying "Intelligent people don't like Vanilla ice cream"... There is NO BASIS for such.

Now, there are areas of the COUNTRY where WWE is more popular than others, the West and the South. And if you are disparaging us ALL as being white trash ignoramuses then you are being EXCEEDINGLY prejudiced.

I like WWE. I don't have any particular reason to like it. I just do.

jaedreth: And as for Mark Calloway and Glen Jacobs (Kane), they're doing just fine.

hehe yeah, I remember him back when he was Mean Mark Callous.

And he just showed up on tonight's show (sans Paul Bearer)

Can'tLetYouDoThatStarFox: borderline-retarded trailer trash fans

I'm guessing you have some bitterness issues....

Arbitrator: That being said, why DID you go into law then? I am going into science and half the time I feel like I'm missing out on financial security....

Financial security. Just kidding, although that is why most people go into law nowadays, especially at the top schools. It's kind of disheartening, since that isn't what law should be about (IMO).

The truth is I worked in engineering for a year and I wasn't all that impressed with the nature of the work or most of the people in it. Lots of really strange people, many of them bitter about not getting the 'recognition' from their bosses and society that they thought they deserved. Every guy thought he was the smartest guy in the company etc. and a lot of them were train wrecks when it came to dealing with other people. That was the part of the job I liked best though, communicating with other people and trying to help them. I decided I'd be better suited to another line of work.

Engineering isn't bad as long as you genuinely LOVE the technical aspects of the work you do. Like, if you get a kick out of transistors or celebrate pi day you'll probably do fine. But many of the people just do it as a ho-hum everyday job, working for the paycheck, and those are the people who really suffer.

My name is Virgil Riley Runnels, Jr., so I'm really getting a kick out of most of these replies.

Accolade: Can'tLetYouDoThatStarFox: borderline-retarded trailer trash

Jesus Christ are you an ass. I bet you don't even see it.

I'm just curious, does living in a trailer imply trash? Does being borderline-retarded imply a trailer? What justification do you use for referring to people as borderline-retarded trailer trash? Exactly where is that acceptable in your world of apparent privilege and education? Is this the "cultured" part of you?

Those are all assumptions YOU made. Not ME. Did I say that everyone who lives in a trailer is trash or retarded or vice-versa? No. So shove your self-righteous indignation. Go find someone deserving of it.

Arbitrator: Can'tLetYouDoThatStarFox: borderline-retarded trailer trash fans

I'm guessing you have some bitterness issues....

Bitterness about what? I don't understand.

/Please hold the snark, I genuinely want to know what your point is.

Can'tLetYouDoThatStarFox: Engineering isn't bad as long as you genuinely LOVE the technical aspects of the work you do. Like, if you get a kick out of transistors or celebrate pi day you'll probably do fine. But many of the people just do it as a ho-hum everyday job, working for the paycheck, and those are the people who really suffer.

Sounds about right. I haven't made up my mind where I am yet. I love what I do, but, like you, I am frustrated by the lack of people skills in my coworkers. I am close to finishing my PhD though, so I haven't decided if I'm ready to go back into school to get another degree or work or some combination of both.

Anyway, I have to say -- and I guess this won't endear me to you -- your judgmental comments about wrestling fans don't strike me as consistent with this phrase about what separates you from your former peers:

a lot of them train wrecks when it came to dealing with other people. That was the part of the job I liked best though, communicating with other people and trying to help them.

*shrug* I hate to be mean about it, just calling it like I see it.

New Campaign Manager?

/would be funny if McCain came out to Hogans "I am a real American" song, and got pwnd by the Iron Sheik.

//followed by JR's "In all my years of wrestling I have never seen anything like this before!"

///followed by Lou Dobbs complaining that Ray Mysterio is taking away jobs from patriotic Americans like John Cena.

Can'tLetYouDoThatStarFox: Financial security. Just kidding, although that is why most people go into law nowadays, especially at the top schools. It's kind of disheartening, since that isn't what law should be about (IMO).

The truth is I worked in engineering for a year and I wasn't all that impressed with the nature of the work or most of the people in it. Lots of really strange people, many of them bitter about not getting the 'recognition' from their bosses and society that they thought they deserved. Every guy thought he was the smartest guy in the company etc. and a lot of them were train wrecks when it came to dealing with other people. That was the part of the job I liked best though, communicating with other people and trying to help them. I decided I'd be better suited to another line of work.

Engineering isn't bad as long as you genuinely LOVE the technical aspects of the work you do. Like, if you get a kick out of transistors or celebrate pi day you'll probably do fine. But many of the people just do it as a ho-hum everyday job, working for the paycheck, and those are the people who really suffer.

Engineering is a lot of fun for me, but then again, I get to work on bridges instead of stupid technical crap. You're 100% right about the people in the industry though. I have this one PE at my company who thinks I'm an idiot, but the first time she checked my work she couldn't even do the simply supported beam moment equations right.

P.S. My family is from Braintree.

Arbitrator: I'm guessing you have some bitterness issues....

It's not surprising, then, they get bitter, they cling to degrees or IQs or antipathy for people who enjoy professional wresting as a way to explain their frustrations.

Can'tLetYouDoThatStarFox: Go find someone deserving of it.

But you make it so easy.

My only assumption is that you're an ass, and I've got just about everything you've posted in this thread to back that up. I think my self-righteousness is well placed, as your about as poor a representative of the "intelligent" and "cultured" community as I could hope to find.

Preconceived notions and stereotypes aside, you're just a jerk. And I don't mind telling you that. Usually, I'd hold my tongue, but since I'm not actually talking... just typing... you can suck it.

/with a cross-chop over a hip thrust.
//I don't expect you to get that.

Arbitrator: Sounds about right. I haven't made up my mind where I am yet. I love what I do, but, like you, I am frustrated by the lack of people skills in my coworkers. I am close to finishing my PhD though, so I haven't decided if I'm ready to go back into school to get another degree or work or some combination of both.

Anyway, I have to say -- and I guess this won't endear me to you -- your judgmental comments about wrestling fans don't strike me as consistent with this phrase about what separates you from your former peers:

a lot of them train wrecks when it came to dealing with other people. That was the part of the job I liked best though, communicating with other people and trying to help them.

*shrug* I hate to be mean about it, just calling it like I see it.

Eh, I knew it was coming. I guess I'd just point out that real-life is very different from the internet. I pass time here, it's not like I'd get into an argument with somebody about wrestling in real life, I mean, who gives a shiat what people watch in their free time? Also, wanting to help and work with people doesn't mean you love everyone e.g.public defenders, who try to get murderers off the hook. It just means you think the work is rewarding or noble in some way.

By the way, being an engineering professor is an awesome job. Definitely do that if you don't mind being in academia for the rest of your life. I personally could never do it. I need the structure of a 9-5 job, or in the case of many law firms, a 5-9.

Can'tLetYouDoThatStarFox: Mentat: This thread is so stupid it's beautiful.

GIVE THE MAN HIS TOTALFARK!

If he gives me five clips, and the people I survey tomorrow call any of them "good", then I will. Not before.

*Sigh* everybody wants money for nothing...


hmmmm.... Degrees and IQ points prove nothing except capacity to pass a test and certainly not a measure for success or superiority.

Proof? Despite being a genius, Professor Stephen Hawking couldn't kick my ass. Hell, he couldn't kick Christopher Reeves corpses' ass.

Not arguing, just making a point. Intelligence has nothing to do with personal tastes.

/137
//BA degree
///content

Mole Man: New Campaign Manager?

/would be funny if McCain came out to Hogans "I am a real American" song, and got pwnd by the Iron Sheik.

//followed by JR's "In all my years of wrestling I have never seen anything like this before!"

///followed by Lou Dobbs complaining that Ray Mysterio is taking away jobs from patriotic Americans like John Cena.

Unfortunatly, Bobby's recovering from jaw surgery related to cancer. He's lost a ton of weight and looks ghastly at this point. I feel bad. When he can talk, or when he writes, he's still the best in the business. The man could put a block of cheese over.

Accolade: Can'tLetYouDoThatStarFox: Go find someone deserving of it.

But you make it so easy.

My only assumption is that you're an ass, and I've got just about everything you've posted in this thread to back that up. I think my self-righteousness is well placed, as your about as poor a representative of the "intelligent" and "cultured" community as I could hope to find.

Preconceived notions and stereotypes aside, you're just a jerk. And I don't mind telling you that. Usually, I'd hold my tongue, but since I'm not actually talking... just typing... you can suck it.

/with a cross-chop over a hip thrust.
//I don't expect you to get that.

When I was 13, all of the remedial 8th graders would do that to each other and yell "suck it" really loud. I may be a jerk, but I'm not totally out of the loop with wrestling stuff. It always finds its way to me, as much as I try to avoid it.

/Also knows what jabroni means

Can'tLetYouDoThatStarFox: /Also knows what jabroni means

is that where you grind your nuts in someones face?

Can'tLetYouDoThatStarFox: I'm not totally out of the loop with wrestling stuff.

....and.... I'm out.

Can'tLetYouDoThatStarFox: Also, wanting to help and work with people doesn't mean you love everyone e.g.public defenders, who try to get murderers off the hook. It just means you think the work is rewarding or noble in some way.

I agree, but that's not what I was getting at. In my opinion, people skills are more than just stringing complete sentences together or schmoozing at company seminars. I think the ability to relate to people on a personal level, without giving the impression you're judging them or getting impatient with them, is an important part of the package of people skills. It's actually having a measure of respect for the person you just met.

I felt like you were hinting at that definition with your complaint about engineers who feel they are constantly undervalued. One of the defining characteristics (and most common stereotype) of failed engineers is arrogance. It's that quality that makes for a lack of people skills. You don't have to LOVE everybody, but if you can't even respect them based on what they watch for fun (even if their reasons for it are not what you may assume), I'd consider that a lack of people skills. Just my two cents.

By the way, being an engineering professor is an awesome job. Definitely do that if you don't mind being in academia for the rest of your life.

Not a bad idea. Now that's a field that requires people skills -- the ability to charm people out of their money and the ability to motivate lazy grad students to get stuff done for you. My adviser happens to be great at it...

generic user: Not arguing, just making a point. Intelligence has nothing to do with personal tastes.

Oh, come on. I agree with the sentiment of your post, but you know that THAT isn't true. I agree that intelligence doesn't necessarily define your tastes, but are you really going to tell me that intelligence has NOTHING to do with what kinds of things you enjoy doing or watching? I don't believe that at all.

Arbitrator: Can'tLetYouDoThatStarFox: Also, wanting to help and work with people doesn't mean you love everyone e.g.public defenders, who try to get murderers off the hook. It just means you think the work is rewarding or noble in some way.

I agree, but that's not what I was getting at. In my opinion, people skills are more than just stringing complete sentences together or schmoozing at company seminars. I think the ability to relate to people on a personal level, without giving the impression you're judging them or getting impatient with them, is an important part of the package of people skills. It's actually having a measure of respect for the person you just met.

I felt like you were hinting at that definition with your complaint about engineers who feel they are constantly undervalued. One of the defining characteristics (and most common stereotype) of failed engineers is arrogance. It's that quality that makes for a lack of people skills. You don't have to LOVE everybody, but if you can't even respect them based on what they watch for fun (even if their reasons for it are not what you may assume), I'd consider that a lack of people skills. Just my two cents.

People will laugh, because by now they think I would actually say any of the things I've said here in real life (quite the opposite), but...



This is my bible. It literally changed my life. I attribute most of the good things that have happened to me in the past three years directly to following the tenets of this book. And yes, everything you've said is fully consistent with it, and I agree with you. It's one of the reasons I changed fields and I'm much happier now.

Can'tLetYouDoThatStarFox: generic user: Not arguing, just making a point. Intelligence has nothing to do with personal tastes.

Oh, come on. I agree with the sentiment of your post, but you know that THAT isn't true. I agree that intelligence doesn't necessarily define your tastes, but are you really going to tell me that intelligence has NOTHING to do with what kinds of things you enjoy doing or watching? I don't believe that at all.

Ok. Very little then, much less than you'll admit. I think personal tastes is just preference. I've never seen someone say "I'm too intelligent and educated to do that. I shall refrain." If they did, it was because they were a snob, not educated past liking it.

I am not too old for cartoons. (34)
I don't care for wrestling, but I loved it at one point.
I once listened to every type of music, but was a heavy metal fan early in life, now I listen to a lot of Scottish folk and stuff similar to Portishead.

I try my damnedest not to be "too good" for too much, it kinda spoils life.

Can'tLetYouDoThatStarFox: ... I mean, who gives a shiat what people watch in their free time?

Jesus Christ. What a dick.

/does this guy know how to party or what?
//I don't even watch wrestling, but you make me want to.

I love how superior non-wrestling fans think they are. They like to come into places like this and post idiotic statements like "that is so fake" or "people that like wrestling are stupid". Like they just figured out that it is not "real" fighting and they feel either betrayed or they are excited to share this new piece of info with us. Most of us know it is "fake" and have known since we were kids. It is a campy soap opera with freaks doing combat simulations. It has acrobatics, acting, midgets, giants, and people doing things a human body normally would not be able to handle. So yeah it is not "real", people can tune into MMA for that. If you feel so small that you must come into boards like this to pick fights with wrestling fans, well you are a worse looser than any WWE fan I know. No go back to your porn and hot pockets, internet tough guy.

jdmac: I love how superior non-wrestling fans think they are. They like to come into places like this and post idiotic statements like "that is so fake" or "people that like wrestling are stupid". Like they just figured out that it is not "real" fighting and they feel either betrayed or they are excited to share this new piece of info with us. Most of us know it is "fake" and have known since we were kids. It is a campy soap opera with freaks doing combat simulations. It has acrobatics, acting, midgets, giants, and people doing things a human body normally would not be able to handle. So yeah it is not "real", people can tune into MMA for that. If you feel so small that you must come into boards like this to pick fights with wrestling fans, well you are a worse looser than any WWE fan I know. No go back to your porn and hot pockets, internet tough guy.

You should get the Orson Wells applause, but I'm too lazy to do it.

If you watch WWE, you shouldn't be allowed to vote.

...and then I read jdmac's post and I kinda feel bad. OK, he can vote :)

I'm old enough to remember when our Presidents did interns and not game show appearances.

/the times they are a-changin

So I can't say I read every post, but did anybody mention:

This is why I hate everything?

TheLopper: Can'tLetYouDoThatStarFox: ... I mean, who gives a shiat what people watch in their free time?

Jesus Christ. What a dick.

/does this guy know how to party or what?
//I don't even watch wrestling, but you make me want to.

So when I care about whether people watch wrestling I'm an "ass," for getting into their business and criticizing their opinions. And when I don't care about whether people watch wrestling I'm a "dick," because it runs contrary to the thread.

There is no friggin winning with you people...yeah, I know, welcome to Fark...

jdmac: I love how superior non-wrestling fans think they are. They like to come into places like this and post idiotic statements like "that is so fake" or "people that like wrestling are stupid". Like they just figured out that it is not "real" fighting and they feel either betrayed or they are excited to share this new piece of info with us. Most of us know it is "fake" and have known since we were kids. It is a campy soap opera with freaks doing combat simulations. It has acrobatics, acting, midgets, giants, and people doing things a human body normally would not be able to handle. So yeah it is not "real", people can tune into MMA for that. If you feel so small that you must come into boards like this to pick fights with wrestling fans, well you are a worse looser than any WWE fan I know. No go back to your porn and hot pockets, internet tough guy.

To be fair, only a few people criticized it because it was "fake." Lots of people in here saying it was gay or unintelligent.

To be fair, only a few people criticized it because it was "fake." Lots of people in here saying it was gay or unintelligent.

I was not saying that it was all the wrestling detractors. The ones who complain about it being unitelligent or gay are not the ones I was aiming at. The ones who seem to think they have some inside knowledge about wrestling becuase they realize it is fake are the really funny ones. I am more making fun of them. So rest assured "unitelligent" and "gay" wrestling haters, my comments were not about you, but rather your less intelligent bretheren.

Wrestling is a bit gay. In my local market, it is followed up in the programming lineup by Will and Grace. (that says something right there) I do not know many gay guys who would not like to see finely toned muscle men throwing each other around the ring, so wrestiling being gay is kind of obvious. However, the Diva matches are pretty soft on the eyes for us breeders. So yeah its got its gay, not that there is anything wrong with that.

And as far as unintelligent, well I gotta give that one to you, however so is every prime time sitcom, daytime TV and reality shows. I think a midget fighting a giant is genius, but hey it takes all kinds, right?

I would love to hear Bobby Heenan vs. Howard Wolfson on Meet the Press.

All right, I'll admit, I watch wrestling sometimes with my b/f. As a girl the, one of the main reasons I watch is the gorgeous bodies. But, for eveyone who says that it is fake, i guess thats true, but I would more consider it choreographed. This means that things CAN go wrong. Its kind of like gymnastics. That is choreographed, but there is always the chance that a mistake can be made. I'll admit, I'm impressed by some of the moves done in wrestling.
/hot half naked men=happy girl

jdmac: I was not saying that it was all the wrestling detractors. The ones who complain about it being unitelligent or gay are not the ones I was aiming at. The ones who seem to think they have some inside knowledge about wrestling becuase they realize it is fake are the really funny ones. I am more making fun of them. So rest assured "unitelligent" and "gay" wrestling haters, my comments were not about you, but rather your less intelligent bretheren.

Wrestling is a bit gay. In my local market, it is followed up in the programming lineup by Will and Grace. (that says something right there) I do not know many gay guys who would not like to see finely toned muscle men throwing each other around the ring, so wrestiling being gay is kind of obvious. However, the Diva matches are pretty soft on the eyes for us breeders. So yeah its got its gay, not that there is anything wrong with that.

And as far as unintelligent, well I gotta give that one to you, however so is every prime time sitcom, daytime TV and reality shows. I think a midget fighting a giant is genius, but hey it takes all kinds, right?

I think all you wrestling fans should abandon your ways and get a new sport popular, such as women's beach volleyball or downhill frilly lacy pillow fighting. Keep the giant fighting three midgets in tandem as a side show, but get rid of the oily men grappling. There is a sensible consensus to be found here.