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(Seattle Times)   Seattle mayor suggests secession from rest of the state, cites war of Eastern aggression   (seattletimes.nwsource.com) divider line 389
    More: Stupid  
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9679 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Apr 2008 at 8:43 AM (6 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2008-04-18 08:48:38 PM  
whidbey: Disagree about the SLUT. It still takes cars off the road and transports people. We need that. Accidents happen.

WHO THE F*CK USES THAT OVERPRICED PIECE OF shiat? ARE YOU GODDAMN STUPID?
 
2008-04-18 08:54:40 PM  
Ron Paul Revere: WHO THE F*CK USES THAT OVERPRICED PIECE OF shiat? ARE YOU GODDAMN STUPID?

Settle down, chief. Unless you can show me that every run is empty and the operator is the Maytag Man, it's doing its job. It's a form of transportation. And I would wager that a lot of businesses probably subsidize ridership, like all the rest of the transit here.
 
2008-04-18 09:03:25 PM  
whidbey: Settle down, chief. Unless you can show me that every run is empty and the operator is the Maytag Man, it's doing its job. It's a form of transportation. And I would wager that a lot of businesses probably subsidize ridership, like all the rest of the transit here.

I'm talking about return on investment. The amount of money spent to build it won't be recouped EVER.

I'm in favor of mass transit that works. The Seattle bus system is awesome. The SLUT? Not so much. It's a goddamned waste of money with a silly ass name that could only have been thought up by morons dumb enough to actually make it a reality.
 
2008-04-18 09:10:00 PM  
Ron Paul Revere: I'm talking about return on investment. The amount of money spent to build it won't be recouped EVER.

That sounds pretty fatalistic, and common to arguments as to why we shouldn't have things like trains or streetcars.

And I really don't care what it costs. It's needed. I say the investment will pay for itself within a couple of decades. It takes cars off the road, and it's a good modern-day transit option for that up and coming neighborhood. I'd rather see my tax dollars going towards transit than something Tim Eyman wants: more cars on the road.

If you want to blame someone, blame the contractors who built it. They're making a killing.
 
2008-04-18 09:11:03 PM  
Any Ballard folks read this?

I'm heading down to Ocho on the corner of 24th and Market for drinks here in about 30 minutes if anyone else wants to secede as well.
 
2008-04-18 09:15:29 PM  
I wish, man! Flat broke....:(

I'll probably be drinking Mickey's tonight...:|
 
2008-04-18 09:17:13 PM  
My brother owns the place, which means free drinks tonight. Yay for me.
 
2008-04-18 09:24:03 PM  
bacccc: How fast can we have troops on the ground in Seattle?

/think that's a joke?
//then you're naive


I think if there was a revolt, the question would be, how fast does Seattle want to cease to exist? It's nearly surrounded my major military bases. Throw in some dope and coke and much of Spokane is on your side for foot soldiers. Probably could even get Calgary and Edmonton in on the fun if the price is right.
 
2008-04-18 09:24:37 PM  
whidbey: I'd rather see my tax dollars going towards transit than something Tim Eyman wants: more cars on the road.

Tim Eyman is the only person in Washington doing something to keep people like you from taxing me to death. I may not agree with all the things he says or does, but I'm glad he exists.

whidbey: If you want to blame someone, blame the contractors who built it. They're making a killing.

Or Greg Nickels who signed off on the whole stupid mess.

And no, it never will make a profit. We're talking hundreds of millions of dollars for a trolley that goes less than 2 miles. Its ridership is severely limited and will never pay for what it cost. Period.
 
2008-04-18 09:33:12 PM  
Ron Paul Revere: Tim Eyman is the only person in Washington doing something to keep people like you from taxing me to death. I may not agree with all the things he says or does, but I'm glad he exists.

I am definitely not "glad." He singlehandedly hamstrung the Washington State Ferry system with I-695 ten years ago so the rich could continue to buy SUVs without paying luxury taxes. What's more, he didn't get what he wanted. Car tabs still exist, and they ain't $30, and we're still paying the same taxes.

I would have voted him a "Horse's Ass" per the initiative a few years back. He is one of the worst elements this community has to offer with his intention to build a bunch of new roads and promoting more automobile usage over transit. He is not good for Seattle or the 21st century.

And no, it never will make a profit. We're talking hundreds of millions of dollars for a trolley that goes less than 2 miles. Its ridership is severely limited and will never pay for what it cost. Period.

I personally don't care if makes a profit. It is a needed PUBLIC SERVICE. They aren't there to make money. And what's more, I'd love to see you back up your contention that no one rides it. Do you have a source? I'd be curious.
 
2008-04-18 09:38:16 PM  
whidbey: What's more, he didn't get what he wanted. Car tabs still exist, and they ain't $30, and we're still paying the same taxes.

I paid $57 this year. That's a helluva lot less than I would've paid if that hadn't passed.

Perhaps the people who use the ferries should pay for them, not the rest of us. They did choose to live where they live ya know.

whidbey: I would have voted him a "Horse's Ass" per the initiative a few years back. He is one of the worst elements this community has to offer with his intention to build a bunch of new roads and promoting more automobile usage over transit. He is not good for Seattle or the 21st century.

Seattle isn't the state of Washington. The rest of the people get a say, not just whiny Seattlites with too much caffeine coursing through their veins.

whidbey: I personally don't care if makes a profit. It is a needed PUBLIC SERVICE. They aren't there to make money. And what's more, I'd love to see you back up your contention that no one rides it. Do you have a source? I'd be curious.

1 - I didn't say no one rides it. I said its ridership is severely limited.

2 - Yes, there should be some return on investment. I can live with a slight bit of subsidation if it actually makes sense, but we're talking about a trolley that serves a small percentage of the population that costs hundreds of millions. As someone said earlier, the same thing could've been accomplished for a fraction of the price via a new bus route. PERIOD. A trolley was un-farking necessary.
 
2008-04-18 09:39:56 PM  
madgordy: Personally as a born in Washington person, I believe one of our most glaring problems is that we have too many counties! Not just in Eastern Washington, but on the West side also. I figure at least 10 counties don't have enough people to justify being 1 county, but even the least populace, "Pend Oriel" and "klickitat" have an equal voice in spending money to the most populace.

Come to the east coast my friend. First thing I noticed when I moved here from Seattle was "We have counties bigger than the STATES out here". By comparison: WA: 73k sq mi. 6.5 million pop., 39 counties (I think) NC: 53K sq mi, 9 million pop, 100 counties. And one indian reservation I think is maybe the size of a WalMart. You talk about a lot of bloated government spending on managing all them. Mostly from what I see numerous counties here are basically run by generations of families that got into government. And some of those counties are TINY.

 
2008-04-18 09:45:52 PM  
Ron Paul Revere: Perhaps the people who use the ferries should pay for them, not the rest of us. They did choose to live where they live ya know.

And I say it's for everyone. You never go over to the Peninsula? You can't tell me you're grumbling about that cool boat ride when/if you do.

It's a weird white elephant kind of system, certainly, but worth keeping, if anything for tourism. And they still keep cars off the road, if even for a 10 mile stretch. I don't live across the water, but I use the ferry system quite frequently. It's one of the best things we have here.

Quid pro quo. Benton county shells out a little for the ferry system, we shell out a little for their infrastructure. I have no problem with that. Although I do agree that there are enough people in the Seattle metro area to warrant levies for the WSF.

But you probably wouldn't like that, either...
 
2008-04-18 09:47:45 PM  
whidbey: Ron Paul Revere: Tim Eyman is the only person in Washington doing something to keep people like you from taxing me to death. I may not agree with all the things he says or does, but I'm glad he exists.

I am definitely not "glad." He singlehandedly hamstrung the Washington State Ferry system with I-695 ten years ago so the rich could continue to buy SUVs without paying luxury taxes. What's more, he didn't get what he wanted. Car tabs still exist, and they ain't $30, and we're still paying the same taxes.

I would have voted him a "Horse's Ass" per the initiative a few years back. He is one of the worst elements this community has to offer with his intention to build a bunch of new roads and promoting more automobile usage over transit. He is not good for Seattle or the 21st century.

And no, it never will make a profit. We're talking hundreds of millions of dollars for a trolley that goes less than 2 miles. Its ridership is severely limited and will never pay for what it cost. Period.

I personally don't care if makes a profit. It is a needed PUBLIC SERVICE. They aren't there to make money. And what's more, I'd love to see you back up your contention that no one rides it. Do you have a source? I'd be curious.


Seattle you pretty much NEED public transit. It's too damn compact for one-person-one-car driving. You just can't farking get anywhere unless you REALLY search for those short cuts around downtown.

I was on board with Eyeman on a number of things, but the whole car tabs and I-695 thing in my opinion, hurt more than it was supposed to help. But that maybe because his opposition was so staunch in their efforts to derail him.

Funny, here in Raleigh they've been looking at Seattle's "model light rail system" (their words) to build one here. It'll be a ginormous fiasco as barely anyone rides the busses here and there's no shortage of people.
 
2008-04-18 09:48:49 PM  
whidbey: And I say it's for everyone.

Nah, I'm gonna say that people who choose to live in exclusive island communities deserve to pay what it costs to get where they want.
 
2008-04-18 09:52:34 PM  
Ron Paul Revere: Nah, I'm gonna say that people who choose to live in exclusive island communities deserve to pay what it costs to get where they want.

Now that's just myopic. You've obviously never been anywhere West of Poulsbo...


Seattle you pretty much NEED public transit. It's too damn compact for one-person-one-car driving. You just can't farking get anywhere unless you REALLY search for those short cuts around downtown.


Absolutely. San Francisco was the model with the BART, and we're the best biggest city to put transit-oriented development in place. Every heard of DART in Dallas? They're cool with us, too.

It's not a cheap option, but it's the best hope of getting people out of their cars.
 
2008-04-18 09:55:45 PM  
west99: By that same logic, once the Pass was closed down all the "thriving" (by Eastern Wash standards) communities along the I-90 corridor would become even more useless. Eastern Washington is just a driveway, basically.

And after they put the red-light bypass in Wallace, ID, it's no fun driving that. Having to stop at the light on I-90 was such a hoot, and of course there was the "red-light district." Dodged sniper fire many a time in Wallace.
 
2008-04-18 09:56:35 PM  
whidbey: Now that's just myopic. You've obviously never been anywhere West of Poulsbo...

I live in Seattle. Sorry. Too bad you couldn't fully comprehend my previous posts where I mentioned that. Obviously you have a hard time reading and understanding anything you disagree with.
 
2008-04-18 10:01:50 PM  
Ron Paul Revere: Too bad you couldn't fully comprehend my previous posts where I mentioned that. Obviously you have a hard time reading and understanding anything you disagree with.

Well you know, that response is rather uncalled for. Just thought I'd mention it. I'm trying to have a conversation, and you sound like you've got a headache.

PS. I live in Seattle, too.
 
2008-04-18 10:16:47 PM  
whidbey: Ron Paul Revere: Perhaps the people who use the ferries should pay for them, not the rest of us. They did choose to live where they live ya know.

And I say it's for everyone. You never go over to the Peninsula? You can't tell me you're grumbling about that cool boat ride when/if you do....


I can agree with both of you on a number of points but I can tell you from experience, if you're a regular commuter (paying out the arse to ride it 2x a day, less walking on, but still have to take the bus) that "coolness" evaporates after a couple months. It becomes a serious grind. And the "well no one made you move there" argumement? Dear god knock that shiat off. It's like saying "well no one made you move to the 'burbs so you could have a 2 hour commute down town". It's retarded. But look at it this way: you can have what goes for $600k in Seattle for $150k on the peninsula. The price you pay for a boat ride more than makes up the difference. And you can have a yard. And now looking back at all the foreclosures and home financing issues right now? A $150k hole is a lot easier to get out of than a $600k one. That, and Seattle is a renter's city. What is it, something like 60% of the city are renters?
 
2008-04-18 10:22:06 PM  
fanbladesaresharp: if you're a regular [ferry] commuter (paying out the arse to ride it 2x a day, less walking on, but still have to take the bus) that "coolness" evaporates after a couple months

I disagree. The Bremerton run in particular is perfect for kicking back, reading a newspaper or taking a nap. I've worked with people that look forward to that time, and often they use it as an excuse to have time alone, much like riding the train on the east coast. It's still a shorter trip than riding from Connecticut into the City.

And I'm not talking about regulars, really. I'm talking about the million or so people who come to our city and spend money here. They take the ferry over to Bainbridge and spend money there.
 
2008-04-18 10:22:21 PM  
Ron Paul Revere: whidbey: And I say it's for everyone.

Nah, I'm gonna say that people who choose to live in exclusive island communities deserve to pay what it costs to get where they want.


Exclusive? Dude where do you farking live, Asotin? Mercer and Bainbridge are the only islands I'd remotely consider "exclusive". The penninsulas have some pretty run down rednecky areas. Whidbey Isl. is nice (the weather is nicer too actually, if you can believe that), but not hugely overpriced like Seattle. They're more laid back there, but I'd hardly call them "exclusive".
 
2008-04-18 10:25:07 PM  
Like I said, I doubt if RPR has been west of Winslow.

Port Townsend is pretty cool too. It only takes an hour and a half by boat. Probably five hours if you drive "the long way."

I cringe that many still think that building a bridge to Bainbridge is the way to go. It's horrifying, even.
 
2008-04-18 10:26:10 PM  
whidbey: fanbladesaresharp: if you're a regular [ferry] commuter (paying out the arse to ride it 2x a day, less walking on, but still have to take the bus) that "coolness" evaporates after a couple months

I disagree. The Bremerton run in particular is perfect for kicking back, reading a newspaper or taking a nap. I've worked with people that look forward to that time, and often they use it as an excuse to have time alone, much like riding the train on the east coast. It's still a shorter trip than riding from Connecticut into the City.

And I'm not talking about regulars, really. I'm talking about the million or so people who come to our city and spend money here. They take the ferry over to Bainbridge and spend money there.


I'm speaking from a commuter POV. It was fine when I was a kid and spending summers up there. But even for casual riders, that's pretty much how you're going to get from point A to B. Or the ONLY way in the San Juans. The hour ride is cool, especially when they stop for an aircraft carrier coming in. Not so much when I have a deadline in 2 hours and everything is on hold until I get downtown.
 
2008-04-18 10:29:45 PM  
whidbey:
Absolutely. San Francisco was the model with the BART, and we're the best biggest city to put transit-oriented development in place. Every heard of DART in Dallas? They're cool with us, too.

It's not a cheap option, but it's the best hope of getting people out of their cars.


I rode BART back in the 70s and 80s. It goes EVERYWHERE now. You can be 80 miles from SF and not have to deal with a single car. You can be well over 100 with a bus connection and still have a reasonable commute time. Seattle would have been right to follow that model many years ago but they didn't. I don't really know why.
 
2008-04-18 10:31:53 PM  
I'm gonna join the love-in: Wallingford, representing!

Washington is my favorite place. Born and raised in Lake City, school at UW, moved to a new neighborhood every year since graduating. I love em all. Each one is different, and there are tons of little good spots to find. So much good food, and good beer... and some good coffee, I must admit.

Seattle is great, but I'm with canyoneer. The rest of the state is great too. Seattle wouldnt be nearly so cool without Mt. Rainier, the Cascades, the Olympics AND the San Juans surrounding it. As for the east side... its great too! On a nice day it can be a great drive. And, well, the gorge area is just gorgeous.

I'm abroad alot for my job, and I have begun to see alot of different places... seattle is by far my favorite. I always love coming home.

/But you think Seattleites are snoby... you should see the folks on the islands. Vashon Island is like Seattle-snobby^2.
//I can see why though. San Juans are simply incredible.
 
2008-04-18 10:38:09 PM  
whidbey:Disagree about the SLUT. It still takes cars off the road and transports people. We need that. Accidents happen.

Maybe they should make the whole corridor car-free.


Seriously? If there's one SLUT not being ridden in Seattle, it's THAT one. I sit on Valley every farkin' morning watching the orange or purple one snarl traffic and it has maybe THREE PEOPLE on it. Including the driver!

You sound like Steve Dunne from Singles -- "TEH SUPERTRAIN!!!11"
 
2008-04-18 11:30:23 PM  
madgordy -- Don't let facts get in the way of your narrative:

apps.leg.wa.gov

Anybody who says that country people are stealing your tax money must be people who don't have any basic idea of how the state legislatures are set up.

Each district has an equal population and each sends one senator and two represntatives to the Legislature. The state AND Federal constitutions require that.

Puget Sound has an absolute legislative majority. Can't you see that every city block of Seattle has its own district? And that my home county (Whitman) is crammed in with four others?

Country folk are not stealing your tax money.
 
2008-04-18 11:36:05 PM  
10 / 49 districts: Eastern Washington
7/ 49 districts: Peninsula / Vancouver
32/49: Olympia / Tacoma / Seattle / Everett conurbation

/the more you know
 
2008-04-18 11:40:47 PM  
MrTwist: Yeah, Nickels is kinda slimy too -- he had his family buy land around around the places the monorail stations were supposed to go. But he does get things done. I don't remember Gary Locke doing anything really grand. And we all know how inept Schell was.

Um.

Do you mean Norm Rice?

Gary Locke was Governor of the State of Washington.

/You know, the closeted black guy, not the personality-free asian guy.
 
2008-04-19 12:11:50 AM  
WADOT needs to take a clue from TXDOT on how to handle their roads. I swear I almost died on the highways with just a little rain on the road. I can't count the number of times I hydroplaned, and I was going well under the speed limit. Here in Texas, the highways are great with the exception of I-35. I-35 has to be under construction 24/7/52, at least between Austin and Dallas.
 
2008-04-19 01:10:44 AM  
Skleenar: MrTwist: Yeah, Nickels is kinda slimy too -- he had his family buy land around around the places the monorail stations were supposed to go. But he does get things done. I don't remember Gary Locke doing anything really grand. And we all know how inept Schell was.

Um.

Do you mean Norm Rice?

Gary Locke was Governor of the State of Washington.

/You know, the closeted black guy, not the personality-free asian guy.


Gary Locke was King County Executive before that. He already had his fingers in the pie. I think the most exciting thing that came from him being governor was the farking bat problem that caused him and Mona to leave the governor's mansion.
 
2008-04-19 01:46:39 AM  
Big Loves to all from Oly. Yes, its the water, and I know where to find it.

This is all very amusing for me. I grew up here, over 50 yrs here. I love it here, both sides of the mountains.

I remember many discussions of East and/or West wanting to cede from the other, set up a new statehood. Usually it was the East side wanting to be a new state. They got tired of buying stadiums and bridges for Pugetropolis.

Think I'll go put on my wool socks and Birkenstocks, the weather is supposed to warm up.
 
2008-04-19 03:13:09 AM  
Shaggy_C: cws1967: Damn, but I wish that Chicago would do that. I'm tired of those socialist (nearly Stalinist) bastards dictating to the rest of the state.

I wonder what percentage of the state lives or works in Cook County...hmm...


Are you slamming the many metabolically challenged Americans that live in Cook County? Why sir, they are some of the most politically active citizens in this country! And while many Americans are too busy resting on election day, these fine people make it out to vote election, after election, after election, no matter the weather or state of decomposition.
 
2008-04-19 05:16:11 AM  
Ron Paul Revere:
It's absolutely amazing the amount of people who quoted my name and called me a Republican and retorted with something about how stupid Republicans are.

No, I called you a "righty" in response to your obsolete and inaccurate characterization of "lefty" opposition to states' rights.

You can call yourself a libertarian, a flat-earther, a dittohead, a Know-Nothing, or a believer in the Flying Spaghetti Monster. But if you love Tim Eyman, imply that global warming models didn't predict wild swings in weather (i.e. hail in April) long before they happened, mischaracterize "wacko lefties" with straw-man arguments, and pepper your speech with witty Fox News talking points, it's fair to call you a righty.

And that's just from this thread. I'd guess from Boomaze's If you vote Republican, you are a Republican. When the Republicans fail, you are still responsible if you supported them with your votes that I could find more reasons if I cared enough to search other threads.

I don't consider myself to be a Democrat in the slightest anymore. I did NOT vote for Kerry (or any other party candidate). But if I think Tim Eyman is a useless egocentric wangbiter, understand the science behind anthropogenic climate change, go into tirades about the idiocy of Bush's corporacracy, and give boring/long-winded explanations when faced with illogical sound bites, it's fair to call me a lefty.
 
2008-04-19 06:07:16 AM  
hasty ambush: Have to ask. If this were the case why is King County/Seattle dependent on the State and worse still the Federal Government to solve SEATTLE'S transportation problems? Is Seattle incapable of raising revenue? Has it no taxation authority?

Over two thirds of tax revenue in the United States is generated by the Federal government. The rest of the third is divided up amongst all 50 State governments and their local governments combined.

Seattle is looking for bloc grants to help solve their transportation problems because it sounds like the rest of the state wants local tax money to be spent outside the city.

Being populated by a lot of leftist hippie watermelon types who like paying taxes why would it even have transportation problems? Shouldn't most of them be riding bikes, walking or taking mass transit?

You're a moron.
 
2008-04-19 09:58:49 AM  
fanbladesaresharp: Gary Locke was King County Executive before that.

Yup. Forgot about that.

But he still wasn't the Mayor of Seattle, so it was a little confusing to me.
 
2008-04-19 10:31:51 AM  
People who supporting Tibet's independence should also support Seattle's independence.

/I for one agrees
 
2008-04-19 11:58:13 AM  
Dang I leave for half a day and people stop talking about how cool our bars are and creamy delicious beer and start getting all political and angry... That's lame. Can't we get back to talking about the Hawtness and beery goodness of WA?
 
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