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(Chron)   Here are nine billion reasons the Feds aren't interested in stopping illegal immigration   (chron.com) divider line 418
    More: Obvious  
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33486 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Apr 2008 at 4:40 PM (6 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2008-04-14 05:07:35 PM  
HumanBeingsSuck: 9 billion dollars / 12 million illegals = about $750 per illegal.

I guess you can call that "paying taxes and Social Security" if you try hard enough.


Add to that:

- slowing of your children's education by a massive influx of English Language Learners

- devastation of your local hospitals' budgets due to abuse of the emergency room as a family clinic

- increase in auto insurance costs due to massive increase in uninsured drivers

- increase in crime (something like 25-30% of Federal inmates are illegals)

- lowering of wages in industries such as construction, etc.

- re-introduction of long-eradicated diseases

- social costs of massive numbers of anchor babies

...yeah. A whopper of a bargain. What's your reason for cheering on illegal immigration subby?
 
2008-04-14 05:07:45 PM  
daverrod: Without illegals, Social Security and Medicare would collapse. 'Nuff said.

Depends, tally up the funds lost on healthcare and public schooling. If SS and Medicare are surviving off the illegals it's being done on stolen SS #'s. Illegals can't get their own SS. This means the poor sap who really owns that SS is going to be paid a visit by the IRS for undeclared wages and demand he pay for the unkown illegal running around getting jobs on that SS.
 
2008-04-14 05:07:52 PM  
Death by Misadventure: The federal govt doesn't fully do anything except fark up all the time.

That's simply not true. They're fairly adept and granting themselves pay raises.
 
2008-04-14 05:07:53 PM  
Weaver95: Ryan2065: So you think deporting thousands of workers will help the economy?

I think that if we pass a series of laws and then don't enforce those laws, bad things will happen. Especially if people are visibly breaking those laws every single day in direct view of law enforcement authorities, who sit there and do nothing.


I disagree. We shouldn't enforce laws if it will hurt the country. We should treat the immigration laws like we treat the speed limit, you only get fined if you do something really stupid.
 
2008-04-14 05:07:59 PM  
Uncle Karl: If we simply fined employers $50k/day/illegal with a 1 year mandatory minimum felony sentence per illegal, that would straighten right out. They would stop coming over when no one would take the chance to hire them.

That'll never happen. Neither the feds nor the businesses want to stop illegal immigration.

If they wanted to stop illegal immigration, they'd take a note from what Mexico has been doing since 2005.

Station troops all along the Southern border. Mexico has reduced illegal immigration into their country by 50% in three years by doing this.
 
2008-04-14 05:08:10 PM  
Ooooooh! A global warming thread!

wait.....They took our jarbs!

/Innertubes is Serious business.
 
2008-04-14 05:08:15 PM  
Weaver95: kc987654: Weaver95: Ryan2065: So you think deporting thousands of workers will help the economy?

I think that if we pass a series of laws and then don't enforce those laws, bad things will happen. Especially if people are visibly breaking those laws every single day in direct view of law enforcement authorities, who sit there and do nothing.

Yeah! Now why don't we go break down some more doors searching for marijuana.

Oh please....the fed knows they can't stop cannabis growers. For every operation they catch, there are 10 they miss. And they know it.


And thank whatever deity you do or do not believe in for that.
 
2008-04-14 05:08:40 PM  
Rapmaster2000: kc987654: MickCollins: Now subtract all the benefits they are given.

Yeah, with all the free healthcare and schooling and other government services they get, I'm thinking of changing my status to illegal.

Man, I wish I was an illegal immigrant. Them and the homeless have it so easy.


They do the work Americans don't do, and apparently pay the taxes we don't want to as well.
 
2008-04-14 05:08:40 PM  
Just imagine how much more they would pay if they were hired legally by employers who declared them as employees.

Also, if you get to count the plusses then please count the minuses.
Even the black plague had positives attached to it but still there were some negatives.
 
2008-04-14 05:08:42 PM  
I've got half a dozen illegals working directly for me that neither I nor my company officially know about. All of them pay taxes, and quite frankly, both they and the legal immigrants are better workers and more reliable than the handful of Americans I have. Quite impressive, considering that most of them work two or three jobs .. hell, I only work one, and when I have to get my hands dirty, I'm hard-pressed to keep up with most of them.
 
2008-04-14 05:08:52 PM  
I work for the company providing the tubing for the border fence so I'm getting a kick out of these replies. It's going to be a damn fine Xmas bonus this year.
 
2008-04-14 05:09:05 PM  
Ryan2065: I disagree. We shouldn't enforce laws if it will hurt the country.

So you're ok with getting rid of anti-discrimination laws and all those pesky anti-smoking ordinances then?
 
2008-04-14 05:09:27 PM  
SchlingFo: Uncle Karl: If we simply fined employers $50k/day/illegal with a 1 year mandatory minimum felony sentence per illegal, that would straighten right out. They would stop coming over when no one would take the chance to hire them.

That'll never happen. Neither the feds nor the businesses want to stop illegal immigration.

If they wanted to stop illegal immigration, they'd take a note from what Mexico has been doing since 2005.

Station troops all along the Southern border. Mexico has reduced illegal immigration into their country by 50% in three years by doing this.


My solution would be I think more effective and would actually pay for itself with one trip to the Tyson chicken plant.

But of course they do not want that, they just want to use this as a way to get votes.
 
2008-04-14 05:09:30 PM  
i142.photobucket.com
 
2008-04-14 05:09:32 PM  
Shostie: That's simply not true. They're fairly adept and at granting themselves pay raises.

/ftfm
 
2008-04-14 05:09:34 PM  
eff ewe: So providing healthcare to certain people (in this case, people who can't afford it, to which you have equated as "illegals") is a negative impact?

I was under the impression that healthcare was something we, as humans, tended to seek to provide for anyone in need. Guess not.


I guess the southwestern US hospitals that were overburdened by illegal immigration and had to close for lack of money are a model we should all seek to emulate. If illegal immigrants want state-funded healthcare, then they should elect a government that provides it. The United States is not and shouldn't be the world's handyman/nurse/sugar daddy.
 
2008-04-14 05:09:45 PM  
fernt: HumanBeingsSuck: 9 billion dollars / 12 million illegals = about $750 per illegal.

I guess you can call that "paying taxes and Social Security" if you try hard enough.

Add to that:

- slowing of your children's education by a massive influx of English Language Learners

- devastation of your local hospitals' budgets due to abuse of the emergency room as a family clinic

- increase in auto insurance costs due to massive increase in uninsured drivers

- increase in crime (something like 25-30% of Federal inmates are illegals)

- lowering of wages in industries such as construction, etc.

- re-introduction of long-eradicated diseases

- social costs of massive numbers of anchor babies

...yeah. A whopper of a bargain. What's your reason for cheering on illegal immigration subby?


What does the government care about introducing problems for which they aren't easily blamed? Every problem faced by the American people is an opportunity for the government to justify increasing its scope of power.
 
2008-04-14 05:09:59 PM  
Weaver95: Uncle Karl: If we simply fined employers $50k/day/illegal with a 1 year mandatory minimum felony sentence per illegal, that would straighten right out. They would stop coming over when no one would take the chance to hire them.

Good luck getting THAT law passed. you'd run into a wall of lobbyists so thick you couldn't see the capital building.


So true. Big Business benfits from illegal workers. Big Business owns your Senator.
 
2008-04-14 05:10:08 PM  
That illegals have billion$ withheld in taxes isn't indicative tat they contribute.
Because of wage levels, they typically receive most or all of it back, and pick up THOUSANDS per household (on top of the refund of withheld tax) in Earned Income Credit.

They are a HUGE drain on income tax revenue.
 
2008-04-14 05:10:42 PM  
dolphkhan: I've got half a dozen illegals working directly for me that neither I nor my company officially know about.

Oh, bullshiat.

You and your farking company know about them. You and your bosses should all be sitting in jail.
 
2008-04-14 05:10:58 PM  
Ryan2065:

So you think deporting thousands of workers will help the economy?

Well if illegals make up around 15% of our population(30000000X20000000)it sure wont hurt the unemployment rate (around 5%)and will cause less of a strain on our services.
 
2008-04-14 05:11:29 PM  
Weaver95: Ryan2065: I disagree. We shouldn't enforce laws if it will hurt the country.

So you're ok with getting rid of anti-discrimination laws and all those pesky anti-smoking ordinances then?


Getting rid of Anti-smoking laws in private areas/bars/land? yes

Getting rid of Anti-discrimination laws in private buisness? Yes, as long as they get 0 government contracts or money and must label themselves as such. As a consumer I have a right to know about the business practices of those I deal with. How else would capitalism work?
 
2008-04-14 05:11:35 PM  
The_Sponge: Illegals are part of the reason why California is in such a budget crunch.

Another reason:

The State Assembly about 60% retarded.


for the love of fsm, THIS.
 
2008-04-14 05:12:24 PM  
Weaver95: Ryan2065: I disagree. We shouldn't enforce laws if it will hurt the country.

So you're ok with getting rid of anti-discrimination laws and all those pesky anti-smoking ordinances then?


Actually I am against those laws, they shouldn't have ever been made. Are you agreeing with me that getting rid of the illegal immigrants would only hurt the country?
 
2008-04-14 05:12:24 PM  
$9,000,000,000 divided by 20,000,000 (est.) illegals = $450 each.
That's hardly a significant contribution.
 
2008-04-14 05:12:38 PM  
Spoonfed'sBuddy: What does the government care about introducing problems for which they aren't easily blamed? Every problem faced by the American people is an opportunity for the government to justify increasing its scope of power.

Another large load of THIS!
 
2008-04-14 05:12:58 PM  
Giblet: Katie98_KT: Giblet: The second-gen illegals are another matter.

*blinks*

Oh yeah. I'm also for removing the birthright citizen clause.

Did you have to blink my fool head off? Jeez!


Dumbest idea ever! What of the millions of Americans today that were born in American but their parents were immigrants? Should I cause my mom was an immigrant not have citizenship? Why do the previous generations of immigrants (Germans, Italians, Irish etc) get free passes but now you want to close the gates for future citizens?
 
2008-04-14 05:13:02 PM  
Spoonfed'sBuddy: Well, since they are here illegally to earn the money, one could argue that they aren't legally entitled to any of it.

One COULD argue that. But one would be a moran.
 
2008-04-14 05:13:16 PM  
Weaver95: Uncle Karl: If we simply fined employers $50k/day/illegal with a 1 year mandatory minimum felony sentence per illegal, that would straighten right out. They would stop coming over when no one would take the chance to hire them.

Good luck getting THAT law passed. you'd run into a wall of lobbyists so thick you couldn't see the capital building.




Would work better than a fence though.
 
2008-04-14 05:13:32 PM  
socalnewwaver

MY RESPONSE, ADDRESSED TO ANOTHER PERSON:

"Because I don't know how you do it in Bumfark, Oklahoma..."

YOUR COUNTERRESPONSE, ADDRESSED TO ME:
"your post is so full of stupid i can't even begin to reply. but that one line takes the cake."


1. For the record, I don't know how you do it in Bumfark, Oklahoma. I live in Nevada, I know how we do it here.

2. If the Grammar Nazis were recruiting, I'd enlist and throw you into a preheated oven for writing that sentence. Could you BOTHER for punctuation before you start flinging insults?

3. Illegal immigrants don't destroy the health care system here. Most simply work without it. Now, there are a number of homeless people who do wander into the hospitals. That's usually a warm bed, a meal and some attention. The homeless are actually citizens. Whether or not they pay their taxes, you might want to talk to them about it.
 
2008-04-14 05:13:44 PM  
fernt: HumanBeingsSuck: 9 billion dollars / 12 million illegals = about $750 per illegal.

I guess you can call that "paying taxes and Social Security" if you try hard enough.

Add to that:

- slowing of your children's education by a massive influx of English Language Learners

- devastation of your local hospitals' budgets due to abuse of the emergency room as a family clinic

- increase in auto insurance costs due to massive increase in uninsured drivers

- increase in crime (something like 25-30% of Federal inmates are illegals)

- lowering of wages in industries such as construction, etc.

- re-introduction of long-eradicated diseases

- social costs of massive numbers of anchor babies

...yeah. A whopper of a bargain. What's your reason for cheering on illegal immigration subby?


add in the massive increase in identity theft, strain on infrastructure caused by 15 people living in a townhouse designed for 5 at the most, decreased property values caused by societal differences (livestock in the back yard).
 
2008-04-14 05:14:07 PM  
Rapmaster2000: Illegal immigration is the new abortion. It's one of those issues that never goes away yet you can continually ride to re-election by complaining about it.

The best part is you can get campaign funding from companies who benefit from it even while you rail against it.


Some Democrats favor illegal immigration because it keeps food affordable and gives them a warm/fuzzy socialist buzz. Plus, naturalized Latino citizens tend to vote Democratic...

A few Republican businessmen favor illegal immigration because they get work done for cheap, which increases their profits. Food producers, landscape companies, construction businesses, etc.

You'll never get the people to agree on this issue, so I think it should be decided by the toss of a coin. Heads, we grant all Mexicans dual citizenship. Tails, we fine anyone hiring them and reward informants.
 
2008-04-14 05:14:22 PM  
Is this the epic thread for the day?
 
2008-04-14 05:14:37 PM  
Fodder_Jack: $9,000,000,000 divided by 20,000,000 (est.) illegals = $450 each.
That's hardly a significant contribution.


Considering most people in the lower brackets not only pay zero in Federal Income tax but actually get money back from the EIC, that's quite a bit.
 
2008-04-14 05:14:50 PM  
img178.imageshack.us

/obscure?
 
2008-04-14 05:15:47 PM  
Uncle Karl: Weaver95: Ryan2065: I disagree. We shouldn't enforce laws if it will hurt the country.

So you're ok with getting rid of anti-discrimination laws and all those pesky anti-smoking ordinances then?

Getting rid of Anti-smoking laws in private areas/bars/land? yes

Getting rid of Anti-discrimination laws in private buisness? Yes, as long as they get 0 government contracts or money and must label themselves as such. As a consumer I have a right to know about the business practices of those I deal with. How else would capitalism work?


Nope, sorry - it don't work like that. if you get to ignore immigration laws and reap all the benefits of doing so, then I get to ignore whatever laws I don't like and reap all those benefits too.

See, that's the catch. Illegals are here 'illegally'. As in 'breaking the law'. Hence the term - illegal. So if you've got someone breaking the law, you enforce the law. If you don't like it, you can change it. In fact, I encourage people to become more heavily involved in our legal process. Such activity cannot come to bad ends no matter what else happens. But you don't get to ignore a law just because you don't like it. By all means - work to change it if you feel you must. But don't ignore it.
 
2008-04-14 05:15:51 PM  
I call bullshiat to the initial premise. A large amount of illegal immigrants are paid cash under the table, and those wages never get taxed.
 
2008-04-14 05:15:57 PM  
LOGICAL_PSYCHO: Well if illegals make up around 15% of our population(30000000X20000000)it sure wont hurt the unemployment rate (around 5%)and will cause less of a strain on our services.

We need to keep a steay unemployment rate to keep our economy going strong. The only way it would work without hurting our economy is if the illegal immigrants are only deported from areas with a huge unemployment rate.
 
2008-04-14 05:15:57 PM  
Blinxs: Dumbest idea ever! What of the millions of Americans today that were born in American but their parents were immigrants? Should I cause my mom was an immigrant not have citizenship? Why do the previous generations of immigrants (Germans, Italians, Irish etc) get free passes but now you want to close the gates for future citizens?

To play devils advocate:

Because we have enough of your poor, tired, hungry huddled masses?
 
2008-04-14 05:16:01 PM  
Ryan2065: I'd really like to see the research you have done on the global warming issue... What kinds of experiments have you done?
well I personally did some research by pumping hot air into balloons(the hot air representing the increasing amounts of heat in the atmosphere) and concluded that the earth if this continues will eventually float higher into the sky and then explode.
 
2008-04-14 05:16:18 PM  
dolphkhan: I've got half a dozen illegals working directly for me that neither I nor my company officially know about. All of them pay taxes, and quite frankly, both they and the legal immigrants are better workers and more reliable than the handful of Americans I have. Quite impressive, considering that most of them work two or three jobs .. hell, I only work one, and when I have to get my hands dirty, I'm hard-pressed to keep up with most of them.

So you'd be a felon? Enjoy that money. You should be proud.
 
2008-04-14 05:16:31 PM  
The latinas in my neighborhood sure do show a lot of cleavage.

/just sayin'
//springtime is good.
 
2008-04-14 05:17:02 PM  
OttoDog: That illegals have billion$ withheld in taxes isn't indicative tat they contribute.
Because of wage levels, they typically receive most or all of it back, and pick up THOUSANDS per household (on top of the refund of withheld tax) in Earned Income Credit.

They are a HUGE drain on income tax revenue.


Link (new window)

Illegal alien households are estimated to use $2,700 a year more in services than they pay in taxes, creating a total fiscal burden of nearly $10.4 billion on the federal budget in 2002.

Among the largest federal costs: Medicaid ($2.5 billion); treatment for the uninsured ($2.2 billion); food assistance programs ($1.9 billion); the federal prison and court systems ($1.6 billion); and federal aid to schools ($1.4 billion).
 
2008-04-14 05:18:10 PM  
Katie98_KT: I need to bookmark this article. I've brought this up in discussions before about illegals "leeching" tax services, and people are like, there's no way illegals pay taxes, they're stealing our gubm't money!

Better bookmark this too.

Link (new window)
 
2008-04-14 05:18:25 PM  
Blinxs: Giblet: Katie98_KT: Giblet: The second-gen illegals are another matter.

*blinks*

Oh yeah. I'm also for removing the birthright citizen clause.

Did you have to blink my fool head off? Jeez!

Dumbest idea ever! What of the millions of Americans today that were born in American but their parents were immigrants? Should I cause my mom was an immigrant not have citizenship? Why do the previous generations of immigrants (Germans, Italians, Irish etc) get free passes but now you want to close the gates for future citizens?


Not retroactively... Very few (if any) laws are retroactive.

No, after the law passes, if you are then born in the US but neither parent is a US citizen, then neither are you.

Perfectly fair. Lots of other countries do it that way and you don't hear non-stop whining about it.
 
2008-04-14 05:18:26 PM  
Ok WTF.

The agency estimates that for 2005, the last year for which figures are available, about $9 billion in taxes was paid on about $75 billion in wages from people who filed W-2 forms with incorrect or mismatched data, which would include illegal immigrants who drew paychecks under fake names and Social Security numbers.

So, they have a damned good idea of who the illegals are and what business are employing them, but do nothing to stop it? Does the Govt really think that the few thousand bucks they pickup off of them will offset the cost of education, medicare, and the other governemnt services their family consumes?

The way we treat "illegal" workers in this country is completly retarded. They are either illegal and need to be deported immedialty when found, or they are citizens and are treated as any other citizen. None of this your illegal, but we need you to work and pay taxes and you get some govt support nonsense.

I belive we need to crack down on illegal immigrants, but make it easier for hard-working honest people to become full citizens.
 
2008-04-14 05:18:39 PM  
Dreamer254: Is this the epic thread for the day?

Epic threads require more visuals.

So...

img249.imageshack.us
 
2008-04-14 05:18:39 PM  
socalnewwaver: The_Sponge: Illegals are part of the reason why California is in such a budget crunch.

Another reason:

The State Assembly about 60% retarded.

for the love of fsm, THIS.



It's retared that I forgot to include the word "is" in my last sentence.

I used to work in California politics (Ventura County), and on the rare occasions I was at the State Capitol, it always amazed me how so many idiots were able to get elected.
 
2008-04-14 05:19:12 PM  
The solution is simple...

Bring America to THEM...

Invade Mexico!

They've got a schittload of oil, a pitiful military, and they all want to come here anyway.
 
2008-04-14 05:19:18 PM  

Public Education K-12

$5.85
Public Higher Education

$0.71
ESL and Bilingual Education

$1.22
Food Stamps

$0.85
AFDC

$0.50
Housing

$0.61
Social Security

$3.61
Earned Income Tax Credit

$0.68
Medicaid

$3.12
Medicare A and B

$0.58
Criminal Justice and Corrections

$0.76
Local Government

$5.00
Other Programs

$9.25


Maybe I don't understand the problem.

But, how can an illegal immigrant's children go to high school, college, get food stamps and social security, Medicaid etc? For all of these, don't you have to meet a dozen people and have a dozen thick files of documents and verifications of all sorts?
 
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