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(Chron)   Here are nine billion reasons the Feds aren't interested in stopping illegal immigration   (chron.com) divider line 418
    More: Obvious  
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33486 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Apr 2008 at 4:40 PM (6 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2008-04-14 01:37:06 PM
I need to bookmark this article. I've brought this up in discussions before about illegals "leeching" tax services, and people are like, there's no way illegals pay taxes, they're stealing our gubm't money!
 
2008-04-14 01:48:04 PM
I would bookmark this while you are at it(pops)
 
2008-04-14 01:49:34 PM
Katie98_KT: I've brought this up in discussions before about illegals "leeching" tax services, and people are like, there's no way illegals pay taxes, they're stealing our gubm't money!

The underlying problem is that by the time you have to actually take the time to explain this point to someone who's "taking a stand" against illegal immigration, you're already dealing with someone who's probably too dense to comprehend anything but "illegal bad ugh."
 
2008-04-14 02:05:06 PM
Katie98_KT: "leeching" tax services

Take a look at state health care.
 
CDP [TotalFark]
2008-04-14 02:08:18 PM
But....but....but...they are taking our jorbs, farking out womerns,
and invading 'merica....they are illegal.....what part of illegal do you not understand, moran!

i132.photobucket.com
 
2008-04-14 02:11:07 PM
Hmm, nine billion--that pays for how many days of QuagRaq?

.
 
2008-04-14 02:18:54 PM
rmoose: I would bookmark this while you are at it(pops)

FTA: "Ford said a majority of economists agree that illegal immigrants are a net benefit for the U.S. economy."

I'm gonna go with the tenured faculty chair and fellow of the National Association of Business Economists over a right-wing think tank kthxbye.
 
2008-04-14 02:19:27 PM
rmoose: I would bookmark this while you are at it(pops)

Thanks, that was interesting.
 
2008-04-14 02:31:38 PM
Pocket Ninja: The underlying problem is that by the time you have to actually take the time to explain this point to someone who's "taking a stand" against illegal immigration, you're already dealing with someone who's probably too dense to comprehend anything but "illegal bad ugh."

FAIL.

the alternative may be that you are dealing with someone who, like me, works in a field that is negatively impacted by illegal immigration.

my hospital writes off $1 million every farking month in "unfunded care", which is a pc way of referring to health care administered to illegals.

not everyone with an opposing viewpoint is a knuckle-dragging neanderthal. despite your obvious prejudices, it appears they get it much more than you.
 
2008-04-14 02:33:11 PM
I'm assuming that if we were to take away the illegal alien and replace them with an American citizen, not only would the social security taxes still get paid, but a higher sum may be collected since American citizens probably would demand a higher wage.
 
2008-04-14 02:34:59 PM
PurplePimpSaber: I'm gonna go with the tenured faculty chair and fellow of the National Association of Business Economists over a right-wing think tank kthxbye

awwww, that's cute. you probably believe global warming is caused my humans, too. isn't it great when you don't have to do any research, and you can just have someone on your side tell you what you should believe?
 
2008-04-14 02:43:43 PM
socalnewwaver:
awwww, that's cute. you probably believe global warming is caused my humans, too. isn't it great when you don't have to do any research, and you can just have someone on your side tell you what you should believe?


i7.photobucket.com

The "Waste of Bandwidth" Farky group is growing in leaps and bounds lately. Is it something in the water?
 
2008-04-14 02:47:40 PM
Sinister Steve: I'm assuming that if we were to take away the illegal alien and replace them with an American citizen, not only would the social security taxes still get paid, but a higher sum may be collected since American citizens probably would demand a higher wage.

um, you realize that unemployment is really low in this country right (as a historical statistical measure), and that the big problem is underemployment- americans working for minimum wage with more skills.
so, no, taking away a minimum wage worker and replacing them with an american would just make it worse.
 
2008-04-14 02:48:45 PM
PurplePimpSaber: pic

heh. i accuse you of not being to think for yourself, and you post a worn-out fark cliche.

boy, you sure showed me.
 
2008-04-14 02:49:18 PM
From what they report on the news, alot of the wages that illegals and other immigrants earn in the US is sent back to their country of origin. How does this effect the US economy? Not too well I would guess, but don't know anything about economics. Anyone?
 
2008-04-14 02:55:06 PM
socalnewwaver: PurplePimpSaber: pic

heh. i accuse you of not being to think for yourself, and you post a worn-out fark cliche.

boy, you sure showed me.


It's more about knowing the difference in research conducted under the rigors of peer review (being a published author myself), such as that performed by tenured academics, versus the "research" Mr. Moose cited earlier conducted by the Manhattan Institute, a think tank which is much more neo-conservative than it is libertarian.
 
2008-04-14 02:56:29 PM
CDP: [...native american pic...]

That's full of win right there.

PurplePimpSaber: The "Waste of Bandwidth" Farky group is growing in leaps and bounds lately. Is it something in the water?

Montezuma's Revenge?

socalnewwaver: my hospital writes off $1 million every farking month in "unfunded care", which is a pc way of referring to health care administered to illegals.

I'm curious how your hospital (or any hospital) tracks care administered to honest-to-God US citizens (or aliens with green cards, etc) who can't afford regular hospital care? Or people on welfare (tracked as Medicaid?) What about those of us who make just too much money for eligibility for Medicaid, but also have no insurance at work, nor can afford it on their own? Is it given a different name? Just curious.
 
2008-04-14 02:57:26 PM
socalnewwaver: my hospital writes off $1 million every farking month in "unfunded care", which is a pc way of referring to health care administered to illegals.

Interesting... So your hospital writes off $1 million every month in health care to illegals? There is no one else that fits the "unfunded care" category?
 
2008-04-14 02:59:15 PM
socalnewwaver: not everyone with an opposing viewpoint is a knuckle-dragging neanderthal.

Please don't destroy his perceptions. It's the only psuedo-reality that his Goliath ego can hang on to.
 
2008-04-14 03:05:18 PM
PurplePimpSaber: a think tank which is much more neo-conservative than it is libertarian.

i understand. i get it. it's a 'right-wing,' 'neo-conservative' think tank. which automatically means it couldn't possibly produce anything of value.

and that's my point. you didn't disagree with or refute the study, or offer any evidence to the contrary. you immediately dismissed it because of the source.

"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance-that principle is contempt prior to investigation."

 
2008-04-14 03:11:47 PM
socalnewwaver: PurplePimpSaber: a think tank which is much more neo-conservative than it is libertarian.

i understand. i get it. it's a 'right-wing,' 'neo-conservative' think tank. which automatically means it couldn't possibly produce anything of value.and that's my point. you didn't disagree with or refute the study, or offer any evidence to the contrary. you immediately dismissed it because of the source."There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance-that principle is contempt prior to investigation."


The pre-disposition of this think tank to distort evidence to serve the corporate, social, and political interests they represent should lead anyone to be skeptical of any research they produce.

I'm not going to refute the article outright because I'm not an economist and I don't have all the facts. If they believe their research is legitimate, let them publish in a well-respected economic journal under the rigors of peer review. If it holds up, myself and other intellectuals will be much less apt to dismiss the study.
 
2008-04-14 03:12:28 PM
Ryan2065: There is no one else that fits the "unfunded care" category?

basically, in my state (california), all you have to do to get some kind of coverage plan is have a pulse. and be legal.

for example, when i was a starving college student, i had a mountain biking accident that required surgery. said surgery cost me $4 (yes, that's four dollars), because i qualified for the state's MIS plan, which is basically a plan for poor people. between medical, medicare, mis, and the like, virtually everyone in california can be covered.

we have an interesting phenomena in our ed. whenever someone shows up in military fatigues, the ed waiting room empties. seriously. it's almost like a bad snl skit. they're worried about ins, and the place just clears out.
 
2008-04-14 03:13:49 PM
socalnewwaver: awwww, that's cute. you probably believe global warming is caused my humans, too. isn't it great when you don't have to do any research, and you can just have someone on your side tell you what you should believe?

I'd really like to see the research you have done on the global warming issue... What kinds of experiments have you done?
 
2008-04-14 03:19:55 PM
PurplePimpSaber: The pre-disposition of this think tank to distort evidence to serve the corporate, social, and political interests they represent should lead anyone to be skeptical of any research they produce.

welcome to the world of think tanks. you dismiss it because you don't like the 'interests they represent.' if you think a left-leaning think tank is any more free from bias or the influence of special interests, then you're incredibly naive.

it goes back to my previous point. you don't refute or take issue with the data (you even admit you don't have all the facts), you just bash the source.
 
2008-04-14 03:22:32 PM
Ryan2065: I'd really like to see the research you have done on the global warming issue...

actually, i was originally a meteorology major in college, and i happen to have read extensively on the global warming issue. it shouldn't be hard for you to find any information on the topic, i've heard google is quite handy.
 
2008-04-14 03:25:04 PM
socalnewwaver: welcome to the world of think tanks. you dismiss it because you don't like the 'interests they represent.' if you think a left-leaning think tank is any more free from bias or the influence of special interests, then you're incredibly naive.

He didn't say that he preferred left-leaning think tanks to right-leaning ones. Just that he'd rather listen to experts who've published peer-reviewed studies, reports, and articles on the subject. Quite frankly, I don't see why anyone would get their panties in a bunch over that, it only makes sense to listen to real experts.
 
2008-04-14 03:25:21 PM
socalnewwaver: PurplePimpSaber: The pre-disposition of this think tank to distort evidence to serve the corporate, social, and political interests they represent should lead anyone to be skeptical of any research they produce.

welcome to the world of think tanks. you dismiss it because you don't like the 'interests they represent.' if you think a left-leaning think tank is any more free from bias or the influence of special interests, then you're incredibly naive.

it goes back to my previous point. you don't refute or take issue with the data (you even admit you don't have all the facts), you just bash the source.


I'll always take peer reviewed research over non-peer reviewed research, regardless of the source. I never said otherwise.
 
2008-04-14 03:26:24 PM
They do not pay as much per person as legal residents do. Since they know they are not going to file a return they put crazy dependent numbers on the w-4 like Married 14. So their with holding is minimal. Pennies per pay check. Not 25% like out checks.
 
2008-04-14 03:28:17 PM
First-generation illegals are fine. They usually work hard and put as much into our society as they take (or more).

The second-gen illegals are another matter... They are disenfranchised and therefore angry, rebellious, and all-too often, gang members.

We have two choices: open the borders completely, disbanding the INS, and STFU about the obvious consequences...or stop the illegal immigration.

Stopping illegal immigration is the easiest path; simply announce a $5,000 fine, per conviction, for hiring an illegal immigrant, and a $2,500 reward for information leading to the arrest/conviction of any employer hiring illegal immigrants (payable to illegal immigrants). Use the other $2,500 to pay for processing and deporting illegals. Within three months, there will be no illegal immigrants working in the US.

The easiest path is always the best.
 
2008-04-14 03:31:41 PM
Giblet: The second-gen illegals are another matter.

*blinks*
 
2008-04-14 03:39:51 PM
Katie98_KT: Giblet: The second-gen illegals are another matter.

*blinks*


Oh yeah. I'm also for removing the birthright citizen clause.

Did you have to blink my fool head off? Jeez!
 
2008-04-14 03:44:14 PM
PurplePimpSaber: I'll always take peer reviewed research over non-peer reviewed research, regardless of the source. I never said otherwise.

gee, that's funny. because you didn't previously state that. you previously stated that your problem was that the opposing point of view was disseminated by a right-wing, neo-con filled think tank beholden to special interests.
 
2008-04-14 03:46:48 PM
Giblet: The second-gen illegals are another matter.

second generation meaning they were born here, meaning they are citizens, meaning they are not illegal?

/head asplodes
 
2008-04-14 03:53:38 PM
socalnewwaver: actually, i was originally a meteorology major in college

Well that made me laugh...

Here was your original point:

socalnewwaver: awwww, that's cute. you probably believe global warming is caused my humans, too. isn't it great when you don't have to do any research, and you can just have someone on your side tell you what you should believe?

Either you have done your own research on this topic or you are reading other peoples research and just hoping they haven't distored any facts and have no bias.

Now, let me ask you, if you come across two papers that reach conflicting conclusions, which one do you believe to be true? Do you repeat their experiments or look at the people behind the studies and look for credentials and possible bias? An example I'll give is would you trust a peer reviewed article over a blog post?

We can not repeat the studies so PurplePimpSaber looked at the credentials and possible bias of the people behind the studies. I really don't see why that is such a bad thing.
 
2008-04-14 04:01:34 PM
socalnewwaver: Giblet: The second-gen illegals are another matter.

second generation meaning they were born here, meaning they are citizens, meaning they are not illegal?

/head asplodes


Read on. I clarified this.

Sorry your head asploded. Send me a cleaning bill...
 
2008-04-14 04:08:00 PM
Giblet: We have two choices: open the borders completely, disbanding the INS, and STFU about the obvious consequences...or stop the illegal immigration.

Or we can do what we have been doing... It isn't wise to deport thousands of workers when your economy is already in a downward spiral that isn't caused by a lack of jobs.
 
2008-04-14 04:38:29 PM
Ryan2065: Giblet: We have two choices: open the borders completely, disbanding the INS, and STFU about the obvious consequences...or stop the illegal immigration.

Or we can do what we have been doing... It isn't wise to deport thousands of workers when your economy is already in a downward spiral that isn't caused by a lack of jobs.


yeah, 'cause slave labor is so much better...
 
2008-04-14 04:41:10 PM
Weaver95: Ryan2065: Giblet: We have two choices: open the borders completely, disbanding the INS, and STFU about the obvious consequences...or stop the illegal immigration.

Or we can do what we have been doing... It isn't wise to deport thousands of workers when your economy is already in a downward spiral that isn't caused by a lack of jobs.

yeah, 'cause slave labor is so much better...


So how is that anything like deporting illegal immigrants?
 
2008-04-14 04:46:27 PM
PurplePimpSaber: socalnewwaver:
awwww, that's cute. you probably believe global warming is caused my humans, too. isn't it great when you don't have to do any research, and you can just have someone on your side tell you what you should believe?

The "Waste of Bandwidth" Farky group is growing in leaps and bounds lately. Is it something in the water?


i250.photobucket.com
 
2008-04-14 04:46:44 PM
THEY TOOK ERR JOBS!
 
2008-04-14 04:49:02 PM
Interesting the FEDS don't know who's legal and who's not, yet the IRS seems to know...
 
2008-04-14 04:49:26 PM
rmoose: I would bookmark this while you are at it(pops)

So which is it?

i281.photobucket.com
 
2008-04-14 04:49:33 PM
Giblet: We have two choices: open the borders completely, disbanding the INS, and STFU about the obvious consequences...or stop the illegal immigration.

Son, we got rid of the INS a long time ago...
 
2008-04-14 04:50:42 PM
OK EVERYONE BACK IN THE PILE!!!!!

www.vladville.com
 
2008-04-14 04:51:33 PM
20 million illegals paying 9 billion in taxes and using X billion in local/state/federal services, what does x = ?
 
2008-04-14 04:51:34 PM
PurplePimpSaber: I'm not going to refute the article outright because I'm not an economist and I don't have all the facts. If they believe their research is legitimate, let them publish in a well-respected economic journal under the rigors of peer review. If it holds up, myself and other intellectuals will be much less apt to dismiss the study.

Number one, "corporate interests" like illegal immigration because it depresses wages. Number two, you can read the study by Prof. George Borjas measuring the true costs of mass immigration here (new window) and read the panel discussion here (new window). The economic data about the actual costs of illegal immigration is well known and the methodology sound, and the only possible case to be made for not enforcing our laws immediately is a humanitarian one - which, for the most part, wouldn't be a concern if Mexico would bother to elect a halfway competent government. Assuming for argument's sake that a lot of legal immigration is a good thing, then to both benefit our nation as a whole and benefit the immigrants that follow our laws we must work to deport illegals.
 
2008-04-14 04:52:21 PM
socalnewwaver: PurplePimpSaber: I'm gonna go with the tenured faculty chair and fellow of the National Association of Business Economists over a right-wing think tank kthxbye

awwww, that's cute. you probably believe global warming is caused my humans, too. isn't it great when you don't have to do any research, and you can just have someone on your side tell you what you should believe?


No, I don't watch Fox News.

Zing!
 
2008-04-14 04:52:28 PM
Get out you damn lazy free-loading mexi . . . wait what?

/first thing that popped into my head.
 
2008-04-14 04:52:47 PM
Republican voters hate brown people.

Republican leaning corporations love cheap labor.

Brown people = cheap labor.

corporations
that is all.
 
2008-04-14 04:53:02 PM
I live in the same damn state and I was told that I was not eligible for such care for the following reason:

-White
-Male
-Full time college student
-Never married
-No dependents

However, I was eligible for $24/month in Food Stamps.

socalnewwaver: Ryan2065: There is no one else that fits the "unfunded care" category?

basically, in my state (california), all you have to do to get some kind of coverage plan is have a pulse. and be legal.

for example, when i was a starving college student, i had a mountain biking accident that required surgery. said surgery cost me $4 (yes, that's four dollars), because i qualified for the state's MIS plan, which is basically a plan for poor people. between medical, medicare, mis, and the like, virtually everyone in california can be covered.

we have an interesting phenomena in our ed. whenever someone shows up in military fatigues, the ed waiting room empties. seriously. it's almost like a bad snl skit. they're worried about ins, and the place just clears out.
 
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