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(CBS Sports)   40 years ago this season, Bob Gibson went 22-9 with a 1.12 ERA, 28 complete games, 13 shutouts, and changed baseball forever   (cbs.sportsline.com) divider line 65
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1444 clicks; posted to Sports » on 09 Apr 2008 at 5:54 PM   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2008-04-09 04:59:25 PM
And for your viewing pleasure, the game lines for that season (new window).

At the end of July his ERA was under 1. If Daniel Cabrera doesn't walk 100 this year it will be just as amazing.
 
2008-04-09 05:08:25 PM
the way things are going anymore, they are going to need to raise the mound back up again.
 
2008-04-09 05:13:02 PM
Tr0mBoNe: And for your viewing pleasure, the game lines for that season (new window).

At the end of July his ERA was under 1. If Daniel Cabrera doesn't walk 100 this year it will be just as amazing.


Hell, his September 2 game alone is just as impressive:

Road game, 20th win, 4-hit 10-inning complete-game shutout, 8 Ks, 3 BB, finishes the day with a season ERA of 0.99.

In September.

That's not dominating; that's crushing.
 
2008-04-09 05:16:45 PM
How the hell did he lose 9 games?

/rhetorical.
 
2008-04-09 05:20:33 PM
Umm, he didn't change baseball forever. I don't even know what that means. The drop of the mound after 1968 wasn't due just, or even mainly, to Bob Gibson. And even so, dropping the mound is not 'changing baseball forever'.
 
2008-04-09 05:40:12 PM
Well, I'm an old fart, and in fact I'm so old that I remember that season and even remember seeing him pitch that year in person, in this game versus the Giants. That was one of the first baseball games I ever saw in person, and I was 9 years old at the time. Both he and Juan Marichal (who had an even better W-L record than Gibson that year, 26-9, but still wasn't as dominant as Gibson) pitched complete games in that game (when was the last time that happened in a major league baseball game?), but Gibson was unhittable, Marichal gave up a home run in the first inning, and the Cards won 3-0.

A complete game shut-out against a line-up than included the likes of Willie Mays, Willie McCovey, and Bobby Bonds was pretty impressive, but that's the kind of year Gibson had. I mean, look at the link Tr0mBoNe posted above, and you'll see that for the months of June and July he had 12 starts, all wins, all complete games, and 9 of them were shutouts--he gave up a total of 5 runs in those 12 complete games (108 innings), for an ERA over that two-month period of 0.33. You're unlikely to see anything like that anytime soon.
 
2008-04-09 05:46:37 PM
DamnYankees: The drop of the mound after 1968 wasn't due just, or even mainly, to Bob Gibson. And even so, dropping the mound is not 'changing baseball forever'.

Probably true--in fact, the American League (which had nothing to do with Gibson) was batting even more weakly than the NL that year--Carl Yastrzemski won the AL batting championship that year with only a .301 batting average, and was the only player in the whole league who hit over .300. The NL hit a little bit better, and the weak batting performance of the entire AL is what seemed to get people's attention the most.
 
2008-04-09 05:56:22 PM
When I was a kid I was such a pansy ass that in my first Little League at bat I dropped my own mound.
 
2008-04-09 05:57:31 PM
1.12 ERA and LOSE 9 games! Should have sued rest of team for lack of support!
 
2008-04-09 06:00:48 PM
the whole league was full of no run support.

great season, hell yes, but the lack of O was a part of it.
 
2008-04-09 06:03:29 PM
DamnYankees

Umm, he didn't change baseball forever. I don't even know what that means. The drop of the mound after 1968 wasn't due just, or even mainly, to Bob Gibson. And even so, dropping the mound is not 'changing baseball forever'.

No it wasn't mainly him, but that season is and was certainly the most symbolic and defining reminder of pitcher dominance in that era.

Plus, he is still arguably the biggest badass in baseball history.
 
2008-04-09 06:06:01 PM
May 17 @PHI 4 L 0-1 CG 10 ,L

Ouch.
 
2008-04-09 06:09:06 PM
Year 2000 Pedro unavailable for comment?
 
2008-04-09 06:11:20 PM
Plus, he is still arguably the biggest badass in baseball history.

If only Bonds would have come to the plate against him with all that armor he wore...standing right up on the plate...Gibson would have put the ball right between his eyes until he learned to back the F up.

It's pretty obvious baseball execs and rules people go out of their way to give hitters every advantage possible these days or they wouldn't be allowed to wear armor like Bonds. If you want to stand on the plate, fine, but no you can't wear armor to do so.
 
2008-04-09 06:11:59 PM
Year 2000 Pedro unavailable for comment?

On, no...he is available. Try paging the DL lobby. he spends most of his time there.
 
2008-04-09 06:16:44 PM
Dead for Tax Reasons: the way things are going anymore, they are going to need to raise the mound back up again.

Please let this happen
 
2008-04-09 06:21:50 PM
Please let this happen

It won't due to the afore mentioned fact about how the rules people in baseball do all they can to give hitters the advantage. Soon, they will tell they pither they have to inform the batter of the pitch type to be thrown next.
 
2008-04-09 06:25:39 PM
srhp29: Please let this happen

It won't due to the afore mentioned fact about how the rules people in baseball do all they can to give hitters the advantage. Soon, they will tell they pither they have to inform the batter of the pitch type to be thrown next.


I don't disagree. I can still dream though. I want a game where home runs are rare and exciting. Where pitchers can pitch 100 pitches and be into the 10th inning. Where having a solid defensive short stop matters.
 
2008-04-09 06:26:46 PM
drnugget: How the hell did he lose 9 games?

/rhetorical.


That's the most telling stat, I think. The fact that he had a microscopic ERA and still lost 9 games.
 
2008-04-09 06:35:02 PM
erik316wttn

That's the most telling stat, I think. The fact that he had a microscopic ERA and still lost 9 games.

What's telling about that? It's a fluke.
 
2008-04-09 06:41:14 PM
Clonod: erik316wttn

That's the most telling stat, I think. The fact that he had a microscopic ERA and still lost 9 games.

What's telling about that? It's a fluke.


I think it's telling that "Win Loss records are WORTHLESS"

Also, I always like to point out that Gibson's '68 was only the 7th best season ERA+ wise.
 
2008-04-09 06:44:01 PM
DamnYankees: Umm, he didn't change baseball forever. I don't even know what that means. The drop of the mound after 1968 wasn't due just, or even mainly, to Bob Gibson.

Agreed. Gibson was the best, but the 9 guys who beat him and his 1.12 ERA contributed to the dropping of the mound.
 
2008-04-09 06:48:01 PM
DeWayne Mann

Also, I always like to point out that Gibson's '68 was only the 7th best season ERA+ wise.

6th. I don't think Keefe should count. Also, Maddux's two seasons were in strike years.

I think the 2000 Pedro vs 1968 Gibby debate is an interesting one, with no right answer.
 
2008-04-09 06:53:35 PM
6th. I don't think Keefe should count. Also, Maddux's two seasons were in strike years.

Lol...Maddux pitched 209 2/3 and 202 innings those seasons. What, do you think a few more starts would have blown up his ERA? Hardly.

Pedro pitched 217 innings in the year in question. I'm sure 8 more innings would have really stung Greg's ERA horribly.
 
2008-04-09 06:56:00 PM
srhp29

Gibson threw over 300 innings in his season. Think those two could have handled that?
 
2008-04-09 06:56:55 PM
srhp29: 6th. I don't think Keefe should count. Also, Maddux's two seasons were in strike years.

Lol...Maddux pitched 209 2/3 and 202 innings those seasons. What, do you think a few more starts would have blown up his ERA? Hardly.

Pedro pitched 217 innings in the year in question. I'm sure 8 more innings would have really stung Greg's ERA horribly.


1913 Walter Johnson laughs at their tiny innings numbers.
 
2008-04-09 06:57:10 PM
But how would he have done against black athletes?
 
2008-04-09 07:00:12 PM
I'm still waiting for this guy to pitch at least 5 innings in a game

php.thnt.com
 
2008-04-09 07:00:56 PM
At one point that year, Gibson was 3-5 with a 1.52 ERA and riding a four-game losing streak. If my math is right, he had a 2.14 ERA in his losses, 2.52 in his three no-decisions, and 0.57 in his wins.
 
2008-04-09 07:01:30 PM
Gibson threw over 300 innings in his season. Think those two could have handled that?

I think Maddux could have (Career high was 268)...Pedro, never more than 241 so I dunno The fact is, pitchers had more starts back then, period. Four man rotations were more the norm. It isn't because pitchers would be unable to do so today. It's just that the game doesn't work that way any more.

I was also comparing Maddux to Martinez, neither to Gibson. Gibson was a beast that I never had to pleasure of watching, but from what I have heard...yeah...a beast.
 
2008-04-09 07:06:08 PM
Clonod: DeWayne Mann

Also, I always like to point out that Gibson's '68 was only the 7th best season ERA+ wise.

6th. I don't think Keefe should count. Also, Maddux's two seasons were in strike years.

I think the 2000 Pedro vs 1968 Gibby debate is an interesting one, with no right answer.

Did Pedro have 28 complete games and 13 shutouts?

There is no comparison whatsoever.
 
2008-04-09 07:07:47 PM
Clonod: erik316wttn

That's the most telling stat, I think. The fact that he had a microscopic ERA and still lost 9 games.

What's telling about that? It's a fluke.


It's telling because it shows that 1968 really was "The Year of the Pitcher." He lost 9 games and still had a 1.12 ERA. That blows my mind. He was obviously on the losing end of a lot of 2-0, 2-1, 1-0 decisions.
 
2008-04-09 07:09:02 PM
Travis_Bickle: Clonod: DeWayne Mann

Also, I always like to point out that Gibson's '68 was only the 7th best season ERA+ wise.

6th. I don't think Keefe should count. Also, Maddux's two seasons were in strike years.

I think the 2000 Pedro vs 1968 Gibby debate is an interesting one, with no right answer.
Did Pedro have 28 complete games and 13 shutouts?

There is no comparison whatsoever.



Did Pedro play in an era with huge strike zones and impatient hitters?
Gibson had 28 complete games in an era where 120 pitches was enough for a 12 inning game. It isn't the same thing.
 
2008-04-09 07:09:11 PM
srhp29

Four man rotations were more the norm

Cards used a 5 man rotation in 1968. Gibson did what he did in 34 starts. He averaged 8.94 innings a start.
 
2008-04-09 07:10:18 PM
One year Hoss Radbourne went 59-12, with a 1.38 ERA, 441 strikeouts, 73 complete games in 73 starts, and 678 IP, and he didn't have as many shutouts as Gibson had in 1968.
 
2008-04-09 07:13:07 PM
How many men become so good that a sport changes its rules as a result? In most of our lifetimes, we've seen only two: : The NCAA banned dunking for a time in reaction to Lew Alcindor's dominance while at UCLA, and baseball lowered the mound from 15 inches to 10 after Gibson's extraordinary season of 1968.

Make that 3 times. In the 60s the NBA widened the lane because of Wilt Chamberlin.
 
2008-04-09 07:14:29 PM
That's nothing. Denny McLain won 31 games that year.
 
2008-04-09 07:14:35 PM
RudMan: Make that 3 times. In the 60s the NBA widened the lane because of Wilt Chamberlin.

Four times if you count the NBA implementing the Goaltending rule... ALSO as a result of Chamberlain's dominance.
 
2008-04-09 07:15:39 PM
Glenechocreek: That's nothing. Denny McLain won 31 games that year.

Heh, too bad he proved to be a Tier-1 asshat.
 
2008-04-09 07:29:43 PM
RudMan: How many men become so good that a sport changes its rules as a result? In most of our lifetimes, we've seen only two: : The NCAA banned dunking for a time in reaction to Lew Alcindor's dominance while at UCLA, and baseball lowered the mound from 15 inches to 10 after Gibson's extraordinary season of 1968.

Make that 3 times. In the 60s the NBA widened the lane because of Wilt Chamberlin.


Not to mention the shot clock, offensive 3 second violation and first lane widening (George Mikan)

Unless you want to get picky on the "our lifetimes" issue lol.
 
2008-04-09 07:31:49 PM
this thread makes me happy.
 
2008-04-09 07:39:04 PM
Glenechocreek: That's nothing. Denny McLain won 31 games that year.

True, but he and Gibson pitched against each other in two World Series games that year, and Gibson won both. Mickey Lolich, on the other hand, started three games for the Tigers in that series and won all three (on two days rest, no less), including Game 7 versus Gibson.
 
2008-04-09 07:40:05 PM
In full bias disclosure, I wear my Bob Gibson jersey to the 10-15 Cards games I attend each year.
 
2008-04-09 07:40:35 PM
Clonod: Gibson threw over 300 innings in his season. Think those two could have handled that?

Maddux, perhaps, but that's because of the type of pitcher that he is. Pedro couldn't have handled that many innings without seriously injuring himself.
 
2008-04-09 07:43:45 PM
You're the jerk... jerk: Did Pedro play in an era with huge strike zones and impatient hitters?

...yes? He didn't pitch in an era with the mound height advantage. Gibson was easily superior, though.
 
2008-04-09 08:06:51 PM
Dave McNally went 22-10 with a 1.95 that year.



More importantly.

1971: Dobson, McNally, Cuellar, and Palmer. 20+ wins a piece.
 
2008-04-09 08:08:59 PM
i didn't even know he was black.
 
2008-04-09 08:34:35 PM
holy hell, 28 complete games? say what you will about the lack of O back then, or a dead ball, or a high mound, pitching every bit of 28 games is amazing. Pitchers today are pussies. Guys went over 300 innings regularly back then, but pitchers now are considered workhorses for getting over 220 now. Must not be doing enough steroids.
 
2008-04-09 08:38:57 PM
I got curious.

the last pitcher to pitch 300+ innings in a season was Steve Carlton in 1980. A few have come close in the ensuing years, but none lately.

What's more interesting is that the league leader in IP had over 300 in every single year up until 1980. I suppose this coincides nicely with the gradual rise in the importance of the closer.
 
2008-04-09 09:03:13 PM
Killerclaw:

More importantly.

1971: Dobson, McNally, Cuellar, and Palmer. 20+ wins a piece.



Yep. That was a good one.
 
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