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(Some Guy)   Pried from his cold dead hands. The bidding is now open for Charlton Heston's gun   (q1043.com) divider line 337
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17348 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 Apr 2008 at 5:27 PM (7 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2008-04-08 05:46:31 PM  
The_Sponge: Charlie Random Name: Good riddance. Wasn't he the asshole holding NRA conventions after Columbine?


That's a lot of hate against somebody who participated in the civil rights movement before it became "trendy".

Fact: The Denver event was not a demonstration relating to Columbine, but an annual meeting (see links below), whose place and date had been fixed years in advance.

Fact: At Denver, the NRA cancelled all events (normally several days of committee meetings, sporting events, dinners, and rallies) save the annual members' voting meeting -- that could not be cancelled because the state law governing nonprofits required that it be held. [Their attorney had advised there was way to change location, since under NY law you have to give 10 days' advance notice of that to the members, or hold the meeting anyway and vote on it, there were upwards of 4,000,000 members -- and Columbine happened 11 days before the scheduled meeting.] As a newspaper reported:

"In a letter to NRA members Wednesday, President Charlton Heston and the group's executive vice president, Wayne LaPierre, said all seminars, workshops, luncheons, exhibits by gun makers and other vendors, and festivities are canceled.

All that's left is a members' reception with Rep. J.C. Watts, R-Okla., and the annual meeting, set for 10 a.m. May 1 in the Colorado Convention Center.

Under its bylaws and New York state law, the NRA must hold an annual meeting.

The NRA convention April 30-May 2 was expected to draw 22,000 members and give the city a $17.9 million economic boost.

"But the tragedy in Littleton last Tuesday calls upon us to take steps, along with dozens of other planned public events, to modify our schedule to show our profound sympathy and respect for the families and communities in the Denver area in their time of great loss," Heston and LaPierre wrote."




Quoting it because more people need to understand what really occurs rather than the little factoids that are presented by both sides.
 
2008-04-08 05:46:41 PM  
The_Original_Roxtar: Charlie Random Name: Good riddance. Wasn't he the asshole holding NRA conventions after Columbine?

aren't you the asshole who went to the grocery store after all those people starved in africa?


That analogy only works if you ate the food in front of the starving Africans.

The issue wasn't the NRA convention - it's that they held it in Denver 10 days after Columbine (new window).

(Columbine is in the Denver metropolitan area)
 
2008-04-08 05:46:46 PM  
Stay classy, Morning Zoo.

FTFA: "***novelty purposes only. no item is actually for sale. I mean, we are pretty sure shipping guns across state lines is illegal.***"
 
2008-04-08 05:48:04 PM  
Charlie Random Name: Good riddance. Wasn't he the asshole holding NRA conventions after Columbine?

Troll-fu strong, very nice

//otherwise, FAIL
 
2008-04-08 05:48:48 PM  
The_Sponge

Actually I was going off my memory of news clips and the papers account.

Michael Moore had nothing to do with what I said so piss off.
 
2008-04-08 05:48:55 PM  
Yeah, it's a joke. No one actually has the balls to pry it from his cold dead hands. You know he's got one last little burst of trigger finger reflex still in him. Or maybe not.
 
2008-04-08 05:49:02 PM  
Charlie Random Name: Good riddance. Wasn't he the asshole holding NRA conventions after Columbine?

Wait. NRA? I thought it was movies and/or video games that killed those kids at Columbine.

/Confused.
 
2008-04-08 05:49:02 PM  
skinink: Let's see Michael Moore go to Heston's grave and ask about gun control now.

Knowing Moore, he'd do it and you would end up with a response from Heston in the form of edited clips from his past interviews and movies, carefully spliced together to form the opinion that Michael Moore wants you to have.

You'd also get the chance to watch the camera jump from in front of Moore, to behind Moore, and back in front of Moore all during a single 'question', instantly, and without seeing the other camera man in the shot at all.
 
2008-04-08 05:49:27 PM  
The_Original_Roxtar: Charlie Random Name: Good riddance. Wasn't he the asshole holding NRA conventions after Columbine?

aren't you the asshole who went to the grocery store after all those people starved in africa?


Yes, but I didn't go to a store IN Africa to prove a point. I went somewhere local.
 
2008-04-08 05:50:18 PM  
rufus-t-firefly: The issue wasn't the NRA convention - it's that they held it in Denver 10 days after Columbine (new window).

Did you miss this information that has been posted three times?

The Denver event was not a demonstration relating to Columbine, but an annual meeting (see links below), whose place and date had been fixed years in advance.

At Denver, the NRA cancelled all events (normally several days of committee meetings, sporting events, dinners, and rallies) save the annual members' voting meeting -- that could not be cancelled because the state law governing nonprofits required that it be held.


Reading is fundamental, folks.
 
2008-04-08 05:51:10 PM  
rufus-t-firefly: The issue wasn't the NRA convention - it's that they held it in Denver 10 days after Columbine (new window).

(Columbine is in the Denver metropolitan area)


Hey moron.

That event happens annually and was scheduled way in advance...
 
2008-04-08 05:51:26 PM  
Russ1642: NRA conventions don't kill people either. Just because a couple retarded kids decide to go all Columbine doesn't mean we need to go on a witch hunt against everyone who is pro guns.

No, you're just an insensitive monster.

By the way, since someone dies every day in a traffic accident we can't drive anymore.
 
2008-04-08 05:51:49 PM  
impaler: rufus-t-firefly: The issue wasn't the NRA convention - it's that they held it in Denver 10 days after Columbine (new window).

(Columbine is in the Denver metropolitan area)

Hey moron.

That event happens annually and was scheduled way in advance...


And was required to be held.
 
2008-04-08 05:51:56 PM  
that stupid radio jock doesn't have Charlton Heston's gun.

were it actually put up for auction then I'm sure his estate will have the proceeds go to some worthy program.

Heston was a strong man with strong social and civil rights values which he had no problem standing up for no matter how unpopular they were.

The fact that they were not shared by you does not make them any less valuable.

You should have done your Heston bashing while he was alive you freaks. Now you just show yourself as being bottom feeding scum.

vaconex - very nice. in my current flu ridden state I couldn't possibly have come up with as nice a quote. thank you.
 
2008-04-08 05:52:59 PM  
I think he pretty much pulled a Reagan after being diagnosed with Alzheimer's.
Poor old fark couldnt remember where his shoes where.
Bastard did remember his sweetie - the Ak-47 in the back of his pickup.

img509.imageshack.us
 
2008-04-08 05:53:41 PM  
Nazi's Really Around
 
2008-04-08 05:53:58 PM  
vaconex: Charlie Random Name: Good riddance. Wasn't he the asshole holding NRA conventions after Columbine?


For example, I marched for civil rights with Dr. King in 1963 -- and long before Hollywood found it acceptable, I may say. But when I told an audience last year that white pride is just as valid as black pride or red pride or anyone else's pride, they called me a racist.

I've worked with brilliantly talented homosexuals all my life -- throughout my whole career. But when I told an audience that gay rights should extend no further than your rights or my rights, I was called a homophobe. - Charlton Heston
Same asshole?


That doesn't make him a saint. Many children died in Columbine and he paraded into town (not literally) with his gun-loving buddies while parents were grieving.
 
2008-04-08 05:54:29 PM  
fatassbastard: rufus-t-firefly: The issue wasn't the NRA convention - it's that they held it in Denver 10 days after Columbine (new window).

Did you miss this information that has been posted three times?

The Denver event was not a demonstration relating to Columbine, but an annual meeting (see links below), whose place and date had been fixed years in advance.

At Denver, the NRA cancelled all events (normally several days of committee meetings, sporting events, dinners, and rallies) save the annual members' voting meeting -- that could not be cancelled because the state law governing nonprofits required that it be held.

Reading is fundamental, folks.


That's how you can tell who the trolls are. They don't read your post even though it could be a non-partisan 100% rational statement.

I've had some very good discussions regarding the 2nd Amendment (Unfortunately, we don't get a chance to discuss the other 9 often enough). It's just that those discussions are nearly impossible on Fark.
 
2008-04-08 05:54:36 PM  
The_Sponge: ifarkthereforiam: Charlie Random Name:

Good riddance. Wasn't he the asshole holding NRA conventions after Columbine?

Yup, Denver officials asked the NRA to either postpone or move their convention and The NRA said no way. The highlight was Heston making out this was an act by the 'gungrabbers' to steal his guns and then went on the old poor poor persdecuted gun nuts rant.


FAIL.

That speech actually took place in another state.

You guys need to think for yourselves....Michael Moore is brainwashing you.



You might want to actually look stuff up for yourself before you accuse others of being brainwashed. You, sir, are the FAILure.

The meeting was in Denver, and was abbreviated, thus his reference right at the beginning. I have a link to the CNN article citing the meeting in an above post.

They begged him to postpone the convention out of respect for their tragedy, and he has the balls to call them out for it, and then say they offer their 'respectful, reasoned voice.' Mocking the objectors isn't respectful.


Charlton Heston's speech to the 1999 NRA convention in Denver:

GOOD MORNING.

I want to welcome you to this abbreviated annual gathering of the National Rifle Association. Thank you for coming and thank you for supporting your organization. I also want to applaud your courage in coming here today. Of course, you have a right to be here.

As you know, we've canceled the festivities and fellowship we normally enjoy at our annual gatherings. This decision has perplexed a few and inconvenienced thousands. I apologize for that. But it's fitting and proper that we should do this ... because NRA members are, above all, Americans. That means whatever our differences, we are respectful of one another and we stand united, especially in adversity

Wellington Webb, the mayor of Denver, sent me a message: "Don't come here. We don't want you here, "

I say to the Mayor, I volunteered for the war they wanted me to attend when I was 18 years old. Since then, I've run small errands for my country from Nigeria to Vietnam. I know many of you could say the same. But the Mayor said, "Don't come."

I'm sorry for that. I'm sorry for the newspaper ads saying the same thing. "Don't come here." This is our country. As Americans we are free to travel wherever we wish in our broad land.

They say we'll create a media distraction. But we were preceded here by hundreds of intrusive news crews. They say we'll create political distraction. But it has not been the NRA pressing for political advantage, calling press conferences to propose vast packages of new legislation.

They say, "Don't come here." I guess what saddens me most is how it suggests complicity. It implies that you and I and eighty million honest gun owners are somehow to blame, that we don't care as much as they, or that we don't deserve to be as shocked and horrified as every other soul in America mourning for the people of Littleton.

"Don't come here." That's offensive. It's also absurd, because we live here.

There are thousands of NRA members in Denver and tens upon tens of thousands in the state of Colorado. NRA members labor in Denver's factories, populate Denver's faculties, run Denver corporations, play on Colorado sports teams, work in media across the front range, parent and teach and coach Denver's children, attend Denver's churches, and proudly represent Denver in uniform on the world's oceans and in the skies over Kosovo at this very moment.

NRA members are in City Hall, Fort Carson, NORAD, the Air Force Academy and the Olympic Training Center. And yes, NRA members are surely among the police and fire and SWAT team heroes who risked their lives to rescue the students of Columbine from evil, mindless executioners.

"Don't come here?" We are already here. This community is our home. Every community in America is our home. We are a 128-year-old fixture of mainstream America. The Second Amendment ethic of lawful, responsible firearm ownership spans the broadest cross-section of American life imaginable.

So we have the same right as all other citizens to be here ... to help shoulder the grief... to share our sorrow ... and to offer our respectful, reasoned voice to the national discourse that has erupted around this tragedy

One more thing. Our words and our behavior will be scrutinized more than ever this morning. Those who are hostile toward us will lie in wait to seize on a soundbite out of context, ever searching for an embarrassing moment to ridicule us. So let us be mindful ... the eyes of the nation are upon us today.
 
2008-04-08 05:55:09 PM  
Charlie Random Name ...

learn to read.. or just go away.
 
2008-04-08 05:55:34 PM  
Actors have no business in politics (including you, Ronnie). Anyone jacking off to his memory, whether from the left or the right. Why? Because people are stupid enough to listen to them.

If you feel passionately about your right to keep and bear arms, you think the NRA is going to slate you to give rousing speeches across the country about how those pansy pinkos can pry them from your cold, dead hands? He was a puppet and likely knew as much about the constitution as the average Farker.
 
2008-04-08 05:55:40 PM  
TheNewJesus:
Nazi's Really Reach Around
 
2008-04-08 05:55:56 PM  
All of our individual freedoms are important.
/Don't like abortions? Don't have one.
//Don't like private ownership of firearms? Don't own one.
///Don't like freedom of speech? STFU.
 
2008-04-08 05:56:02 PM  
Charlie Random Name: Good riddance. Wasn't he the asshole holding NRA conventions after Columbine?

No. The NRA, who Heston was president of, but not sole decision maker, was holding an NRA convention that had been planned for at least a year right after Columbine. The voting assembly of which they were legally bound to hold. So they cancelled every other aspect of the convention and held the bare minimum required by law. Weren't you the asshole posting stuff on Fark calling a dead man an asshole a few days after he died without doing any research at all? Yes. Yes you were.
 
2008-04-08 05:56:03 PM  
Charlie Random Name: Many children died in Columbine and he paraded into town (not literally) with his gun-loving buddies while parents were grieving.

English, motherfarker, do you read it?

At Denver, the NRA cancelled all events ... save the annual members' voting meeting -- that could not be cancelled because the state law governing nonprofits required that it be held.
 
2008-04-08 05:56:55 PM  
TheNewJesus: Nazi's Really Around

The Nazis banned private gun ownership.
 
2008-04-08 05:57:04 PM  
Anyone jacking off to his memory, whether from the left or the right. Oops.

ok that second sentence of my post above made no sense ... too many thoughts at once
 
2008-04-08 05:57:24 PM  
Charlie Random Name:

That doesn't make him a saint. Many children died in Columbine and he paraded into town (not literally) with his gun-loving buddies while parents were grieving.


Fark. Where the trolls mention (in parentheses) that they are exaggerating in their posts.

Just to keep you going, you admit that what you just posted is factually incorrect, right?
 
2008-04-08 05:57:26 PM  
This is my rifle,
this is my gun.
This one's for fighting,
this one's for fun!

/From my cold, sticky hand...
 
2008-04-08 05:57:47 PM  
fatassbastard rufus-t-firefly: The issue wasn't the NRA convention - it's that they held it in Denver 10 days after Columbine (new window).

Did you miss this information that has been posted three times?

The Denver event was not a demonstration relating to Columbine, but an annual meeting (see links below), whose place and date had been fixed years in advance.

At Denver, the NRA cancelled all events (normally several days of committee meetings, sporting events, dinners, and rallies) save the annual members' voting meeting -- that could not be cancelled because the state law governing nonprofits required that it be held.

Reading is fundamental, folks.



I never said it was a protest - I specifically said it was the convention. And you lecture ME on the fundamentals of reading?

They could have postponed the convention (as per many requests from civic leaders), but they didn't. Then Heston gave his speech. If this was all so innocent, why do people deny that the speech was given in Denver when it's a matter of public record?
 
2008-04-08 06:00:27 PM  
TheNewJesus: Nazi's Really Around


FAIL.

Read up on your history next time.

Who know who else supported gun control?
 
2008-04-08 06:00:32 PM  
ifarkthereforiam: Charlie Random Name:

Good riddance. Wasn't he the asshole holding NRA conventions after Columbine?

Yup, Denver officials asked the NRA to either postpone or move their convention and The NRA said no way. The highlight was Heston making out this was an act by the 'gungrabbers' to steal his guns and then went on the old poor poor persdecuted gun nuts rant.


You DO know that part was heavily edited in Bowling for Columbine and most passages weren't even FROM that meeting, right?
 
2008-04-08 06:00:45 PM  
TheNewJesus: A great American eh? He was just another actor that agreed to be the frontman for the gun indu$try.

They want your money, they could give a shiat about your rights.

I want a tank, where is my tank? If I have the right to bear arms I want to bear a farking tank. Or maybe a nuke, yea, no one will care about my small penis then!

/draw the line? where?


You can buy and own a tank at any time. Just gotta have the cash to do so and keep it fueled. Good luck with that part.
 
2008-04-08 06:01:03 PM  
rufus-t-firefly:
They could have postponed the convention (as per many requests from civic leaders), but they didn't. Then Heston gave his speech. If this was all so innocent, why do people deny that the speech was given in Denver when it's a matter of public record?


Because the speech that most people remember, was the 'speech' from Bowling for Columbine that was actually a conglomeration of multiple speeches spliced together to get people riled up.

If you are pissed at anyone, then you should be really pissed at Moore for flat out lying to you.
 
2008-04-08 06:01:58 PM  
I really wanted to just make a point that you have to draw the line somewhere with this weapon thing, where that line is draw is debatable of course. Hunting and target shooting I don't have a problem with. Someone has to clean up after urban sprawl, and hunters actually experience all that wilderness that the college kids whine about.

But then the zealots spout off their freedom bullshiat and start the name calling.

It is at this point that I believe the only truly productive goal is to aim at pissing the crazies off as much as possible.

It's a value-troll. Cheap fun for everyone!

Your words mean nothing gun-nuts!
 
2008-04-08 06:02:26 PM  
rufus-t-firefly: You might want to actually look stuff up for yourself before you accuse others of being brainwashed. You, sir, are the FAILure.

Speaking of looking stuff up and being a brainwashed failure, you posted the wrong speech.

The speech that The_Sponge was talking about, was the "from my cold dead fingers" speech shown in "Bowling for Columbine" in such a way as to make it look like the speech Heston gave at Denver.
 
2008-04-08 06:02:48 PM  
The_Sponge:
That speech actually took place in another state.

You guys need to think for yourselves....Michael Moore is brainwashing you.


Damn, that is one of the worst fails in recent fark history.
 
2008-04-08 06:03:07 PM  
we'll miss you eternally mr heston. may you sit along side our countries founders
 
2008-04-08 06:03:33 PM  
rufus-t-firefly: If this was all so innocent, why do people deny that the speech was given in Denver when it's a matter of public record?

I can't speak for anyone who says the speech wasn't in Denver when this is a simple fact that is easy enough to verify with Google. I just read the speech you posted (thanks, btw), and honestly I can't see why you or anyone else would have a problem with it.

They were already planning to be there. They weren't there to stir the shiat, just to have their annual meeting. They canceled everything except the (required by state law) meeting.

While I (and some firearms enthusiasts I know) think that the NRA goes too far sometimes, they are ostensibly about supporting individual firearms ownership. This is one of the central tenets of our nation.

The opportunists are the ones who howled about the NRA convention (esp. the mayor), even after they bent over backwards, canceling everything except the aforementioned required-by-law meeting.
 
2008-04-08 06:04:40 PM  
TheNewJesus:

But then the zealots spout off their freedom bullshiat and start the name calling. It is at this point that I believe the only truly productive goal is to aim at pissing the crazies off as much as possible. It's a value-troll. Cheap fun for everyone! Your words mean nothing gun-nuts!


Address the cause, not the symptoms. In my opinion, one of the first places to start is by ending the War on Drugs.


Advocating that would get you a lot farther than trying to stir the pot. Doing that just gets you put on an ignore list.
 
2008-04-08 06:05:10 PM  
fantomjungle:
we'll miss you eternally mr heston. may you sit along side our countries founders

We have more than one country? Oh, I forgot Iraq.
 
2008-04-08 06:06:22 PM  
I don't go anywhere without my mutated anthrax... for duck hunting.
 
2008-04-08 06:08:32 PM  
Russ1642: danielsangeo: The_Original_Roxtar: Charlie Random Name: Good riddance. Wasn't he the asshole holding NRA conventions after Columbine?

aren't you the asshole who went to the grocery store after all those people starved in africa?

He went to a grocery store in Africa? Groceries kill people in Africa?

/I'm confused.

NRA conventions don't kill people either. Just because a couple retarded kids decide to go all Columbine doesn't mean we need to go on a witch hunt against everyone who is pro guns. That was the point of holding the convention. Now I don't personally agree with his views but I do understand where he was coming from.


Hence my "Groceries kill people?" quip.

/Not anti-gun
//Did they HAVE to have the convention, even a legally mandated one, in Columbine? I don't really know.
///You can own guns and not be a member of the NRA.
//Shutting down the NRA would not cause the gun ownership to vanish.
/Can't sleep, pyramid slashies wil get me.
 
2008-04-08 06:09:17 PM  
NightOwl2255: The_Sponge:
That speech actually took place in another state.

You guys need to think for yourselves....Michael Moore is brainwashing you.

Damn, that is one of the worst fails in recent fark history.


Except for the fact he's correct and you're a moron.

Again, he's talking about the "speech" shown in BFC, which was NOT the speech given in Denver.
 
2008-04-08 06:09:31 PM  
The_Sponge: God bless you, Mr. Heston.

/That is all.


Gonna sell the trailer so you can buy that gun, huh?
 
2008-04-08 06:09:56 PM  
Lame.

\the old man made a better joke about the nra having him stuffed and mounted in their trophy room
\\i lol'd
 
2008-04-08 06:10:36 PM  
" Under its bylaws and New York state law, the NRA must hold an annual meeting"

The meeting DID NOT have to be held in Denver. It could be held in ANY state at ANY time. The NRA choose to hold the meeting in Denver for political purposes.

I am anti gun control and am a strong supporter of the 2nd. But, the NRA is a bunch of asshats.
 
2008-04-08 06:11:47 PM  
NightOwl2255: The_Sponge:
That speech actually took place in another state.

You guys need to think for yourselves....Michael Moore is brainwashing you.

Damn, that is one of the worst fails in recent fark history.



Wow...you got me there.

Oh wait...you don't:

Fact: Heston's "cold dead hands" speech, which leads off Moore's depiction of the Denver meeting, was not given at Denver after Columbine. It was given a year later, 1300 miles away in Charlotte, North Carolina, and was his gesture of gratitude upon his being given a handmade musket, at that annual meeting. Even the "I only have five words for you" is edited -- it was five words for Al Gore, who was running for election on a gun control platform.

Fact: When Bowling continues on to the speech which Heston did give in Denver, it carefully edits it to change its theme.

Moore's fabrication here cannot be described by any polite term. It is a lie, a fraud, and a few other things. Carrying it out required a LOT of editing to mislead the viewer, as I will show below. I transcribed Heston's speech as Moore has it, and compared it to a news agency's transcript, color coding the passages. CLICK HERE for the comparison, with links to the original transcript.

Moore has actually taken audio of seven sentences, from five different parts of the speech, and a section given in a different speech entirely, and spliced them together. Each edit is cleverly covered by inserting a still or video footage for a few seconds.

First, right after the weeping victims, Moore puts on Heston's "I have only five words for you . . . cold dead hands" statement, making it seem directed at them. As noted above, it's actually a thank-you speech given a year later in North Carolina.

Moore then has an interlude -- a visual of a billboard and his narration. This is vital. He can't go directly to Heston's real Denver speech. If he did that, you might ask why Heston in mid-speech changed from a purple tie and lavender shirt to a white shirt and red tie, and the background draperies went from maroon to blue. Moore has to separate the two segments.

"As you know, we've cancelled the festivities, the fellowship we normally enjoy at our annual gatherings. This decision has perplexed a few and inconvenienced thousands. As your president, I apologize for that."

Moore then cuts to Heston noting that Denver's mayor asked NRA not to come, and shows Heston replying "I said to the Mayor: As Americans, we're free to travel wherever we want in our broad land. Don't come here? We're already here!" as if in defiance.

Actually, Moore put an edit right in the middle of the first sentence, and another at its end! Heston really said (with reference his own WWII vet status) "I said to the mayor, well, my reply to the mayor is, I volunteered for the war they wanted me to attend when I was 18 years old. Since then, I've run small errands for my country, from Nigeria to Vietnam. I know many of you here in this room could say the same thing."

Moore cuts it after "I said to the Mayor" and attaches a sentence from the end of the next paragraph: "As Americans, we're free to travel wherever we want in our broad land." He hides the deletion by cutting to footage of protestors and a photo of the Mayor before going back and showing Heston.

Moore has Heston then triumphantly announce "Don't come here? We're already here!" Actually, that sentence is clipped from a segment five paragraphs farther on in the speech. Again, Moore uses an editing trick to cover the doctoring, switching to a pan shot of the audience as Heston's (edited) voice continues.

What Heston said there was:

"NRA members are in city hall, Fort Carson, NORAD, the Air Force Academy and the Olympic Training Center. And yes, NRA members are surely among the police and fire and SWAT team heroes who risked their lives to rescue the students at Columbine.

Don't come here? We're already here. This community is our home. Every community in America is our home. We are a 128-year-old fixture of mainstream America. The Second Amendment ethic of lawful, responsible firearm ownership spans the broadest cross section of American life imaginable.

So, we have the same right as all other citizens to be here. To help shoulder the grief and share our sorrow and to offer our respectful, reassured voice to the national discourse that has erupted around this tragedy."

"NRA members are, above all, Americans. That means that whatever our differences, we are respectful of one another and we stand united, especially in adversity."

I recently discovered that Moore has set up a new webpage to respond to a chosen few points of criticism, one of which is his, er, creative editing of Heston's speech. Click here for my response to his attempted defense of what he did, with link to his original page. Basically, Moore contends that he didn't mean for the viewer to get the impression that "cold dead hands" was spoken at Denver -- that just "appears as Heston is being introduced in narration."


/Facts are stubborn things.
 
2008-04-08 06:11:49 PM  
Pergaps the government should take a look at this again. Seems most have been ignored lately

Bill of Rights
Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Amendment II

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

Amendment III

No soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.

Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Amendment V

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Amendment VI

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.

Amendment VII

In suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise reexamined in any court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.

Amendment VIII

Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

Amendment IX

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Amendment X

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.
 
2008-04-08 06:13:51 PM  
rufus-t-firefly: fatassbastard rufus-t-firefly: The issue wasn't the NRA convention - it's that they held it in Denver 10 days after Columbine (new window).

Did you miss this information that has been posted three times?

The Denver event was not a demonstration relating to Columbine, but an annual meeting (see links below), whose place and date had been fixed years in advance.

At Denver, the NRA cancelled all events (normally several days of committee meetings, sporting events, dinners, and rallies) save the annual members' voting meeting -- that could not be cancelled because the state law governing nonprofits required that it be held.

Reading is fundamental, folks.



I never said it was a protest - I specifically said it was the convention. And you lecture ME on the fundamentals of reading?

They could have postponed the convention (as per many requests from civic leaders), but they didn't. Then Heston gave his speech. If this was all so innocent, why do people deny that the speech was given in Denver when it's a matter of public record?

NO NO NO! Columbine happened 10 days earlier. Legally they had to cancel with 10 days notice. As it is IMPOSSIBLE to do immediately without time to prepare a new date/place for the thousands coming to the meeting, they could NOT just postpone it. Ad yes, the speech YOU quoted was given there. But the segment from BFC Moore used was edited to take sections of the speech out of context and contained pieces from other speeches
 
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