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(Talking Points Memo)   Declassified Bush Administration "Everything we do is legal" memo reveals the existence of a still classified memo specifically claiming that the 4th Amendment does not apply on US soil if the government doesn't think it should   (talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 378
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14624 clicks; posted to Main » on 03 Apr 2008 at 12:23 PM (6 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2008-04-03 09:04:04 AM
Why only the 4th Amendment? Why not just chuck the whole Constitution if it's not convenient?
 
2008-04-03 09:05:21 AM
t-servo, that is of course the legal position if this is allowed to stand.
 
2008-04-03 09:08:20 AM
Suzanne Spaulding, a national security law expert and former assistant general counsel at the Central Intelligence Agency, said she found the Fourth Amendment reference in the footnote troubling, but added:"To know (the Justice Department) no longer thinks once thought this was a legitimate statement position is reassuring frightening."


Fixed that for her.
 
2008-04-03 09:11:47 AM
photos.imageevent.com
 
2008-04-03 09:11:57 AM
T-Servo: Why not just chuck the whole Constitution if it's not convenient?

They're working on it.
 
2008-04-03 09:13:06 AM
i149.photobucket.com
Charmin is alright but a 200 year-old parchment document just feels better between the ol' buttcheeks!
HAW Haw haw....
 
2008-04-03 09:15:46 AM
photos.imageevent.com
 
2008-04-03 09:16:53 AM
i23.photobucket.com
 
2008-04-03 09:21:52 AM
In the night of Feb. 27, 1933, the Reichstag fire provided Hitler with a convenient excuse for suppressing his opponents. The following day, he persuaded President Paul von Hindenburg to sign an emergency decree suspending civil liberties and stripping the power of the federal German states. Opponents were imprisoned first in improvised camps ("wilde Lager") and later in an organized system of Nazi concentration camps. On March 23, the Reichstag passed an "Enabling Law" which granted Hitler dictatorial powers. Unions were abolished and political parties, other than the National Socialists, forbidden.
 
2008-04-03 09:23:15 AM
I support ignoring the 1st, 2nd, and 10th but the 4th?!?!? That's madness and I won't stand for it!! Where do I submit my selective outrage?
 
2008-04-03 09:25:12 AM
T-Servo: Why only the 4th Amendment? Why not just chuck the whole Constitution if it's not convenient?

Because it is VITAL to preserve the Third and Seventh Amendments.
 
2008-04-03 09:27:10 AM
The King can do no wrong?!?
 
2008-04-03 09:39:14 AM
So, does anyone want to wager how many semi trailers it will take to haul away the bags of shredded documents from the White House in December?
 
2008-04-03 09:47:27 AM
King George III treated you better...
 
2008-04-03 09:47:58 AM
Jubeebee: So, does anyone want to wager how many semi trailers it will take to haul away the bags of shredded documents from the White House in December?

4 or 5.

It should not be that much, they have a weekly pick up.
 
2008-04-03 09:49:19 AM
I want someone to ask the new AG about that phone call we got from a safe house in Afghanistan warning of 9/11 that somehow didn't make it into the 9/11 report. You know the one that he said they didn't try to wiretap or investigate.

"All right you've covered your a$$ now" (^)
 
2008-04-03 09:53:08 AM
I'll fight to the death to preserve the 3rd Amendment!! No redcoats will be staying in my house!!!!
 
2008-04-03 09:53:53 AM
GaryPDX: I'm confident the blow back will correct this.

A good blow job fixes everything, you say?
 
2008-04-03 10:02:25 AM
Well, in a time of war, the President sometimes needs to take extraordinary action to keep the American people safe. Anybody that's up in arms about this is just deceiving themselves about the fact that we face not only an external threat, but an internal one as well.

*kidding!!*
 
2008-04-03 10:03:07 AM
so if they have or can get proof of this policy, and the obvious conflict it has with the oath the president took to uphold the constitution, can they put him in jail?
 
2008-04-03 10:04:36 AM
The Stealth Hippopotamus: Jubeebee: So, does anyone want to wager how many semi trailers it will take to haul away the bags of shredded documents from the White House in December?

4 or 5.

It should not be that much, they have a weekly pick up.


Oh, good point. I forgot they started 'losing' documents right around the end of 2006.

While searching for them, though, they did manage to find W's veto crayon, so he's happy at least.
 
2008-04-03 10:08:36 AM
burndtdan: so if they have or can get proof of this policy, and the obvious conflict it has with the oath the president took to uphold the constitution, can they put him in jail?


Not likely. At this point it's better just to wait out the rest of this disaster, and then sic future AG Edwards on a bunch of fall guys.
 
2008-04-03 10:09:01 AM
BooBoo23: Well, in a time of war, the President sometimes needs to take extraordinary action to keep the American people safe. Anybody that's up in arms about this is just deceiving themselves about the fact that we face not only an external threat, but an internal one as well.

*kidding!!*


Yeah, the internal threat has his ass parked at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, Washington DC.

So, is our Constitution 2-ply??
 
2008-04-03 10:09:10 AM
Jubeebee: Oh, good point. I forgot they started 'losing' documents right around the end of 2006

Show me a President that didn't shredded documents and I will show you a President that used a bona fire because the shredding machine was not invented yet.

Now trying to hide docs from the national archive in your underwear, that's a new one. Most Presidents were smart enough to bribe one of the workers.
 
2008-04-03 10:12:00 AM
The Stealth Hippopotamus: didn't shredded

w00tism
 
2008-04-03 10:14:15 AM
BooBoo23: Well, in a time of war, the President sometimes needs to take extraordinary action to keep the American people safe. Anybody that's up in arms about this is just deceiving themselves about the fact that we face not only an external threat, but an internal one as well.

*kidding!!*


Yeah like the time the jailed reporters because he didn't like what they wrote about him. Oh wait that was Lincoln. Or outlawed the reporting of US military losses. Oh wait that was FDR.

But Bush really sucks.
 
2008-04-03 10:18:30 AM
img182.imageshack.us

Please. Nobody play a bat-winged flute in the presence of John Yoo.

His incomplete conscience circuit won't be able to handle it.
 
2008-04-03 10:18:41 AM
I'm not trying to be an ass, and I certainly don't agree with all its conclusions, but that Yoo memo is some damn fine legal work. If you think that the Administration is just making up stuff to get away with whatever it wants to do, I recommend reading the actual memo. You'll probably be just as pissed off, but you might redirect some of your anger at the Supreme Court.
 
2008-04-03 10:20:32 AM
Nestea Plunge: In the night of Feb. 27, 1933, the Reichstag fire provided Hitler with a convenient excuse for suppressing his opponents. The following day, he persuaded President Paul von Hindenburg to sign an emergency decree suspending civil liberties and stripping the power of the federal German states. Opponents were imprisoned first in improvised camps ("wilde Lager") and later in an organized system of Nazi concentration camps. On March 23, the Reichstag passed an "Enabling Law" which granted Hitler dictatorial powers. Unions were abolished and political parties, other than the National Socialists, forbidden.

Whatever, liberal Coulter.

/except, of course, in this case the Bush Administration actually did something that is comparable.
 
2008-04-03 10:21:33 AM
I read these song lyrics this morning, and the first thing I thought was that this describes a lot of people in this country... their judgment is being dictated by fear

"nature abhors a vaccum
but what's between your ears?
your judgement clouded
with fearful thoughts,
headlights and a deer, oww"

R.E.M. "Man-Sized Wreath"
 
2008-04-03 10:22:14 AM
The Stealth Hippopotamus: Jubeebee: Oh, good point. I forgot they started 'losing' documents right around the end of 2006

Show me a President that didn't shredded documents and I will show you a President that used a bona fire because the shredding machine was not invented yet.

Now trying to hide docs from the national archive in your underwear, that's a new one. Most Presidents were smart enough to bribe one of the workers.

-----------------

Classic, an "everybody does it" morally relativistic defence and a deflection.

You some kind of idiot? You got bats in your belfrey?
 
2008-04-03 10:22:30 AM
Jubeebee: So, does anyone want to wager how many semi trailers it will take to haul away the bags of shredded documents from the White House in December?

They started when the Democrats won congress.

Silly as it seems now, back then it probably seemed like it might be necessary.
 
2008-04-03 10:23:43 AM
BooBoo23: *kidding!!*

S'Alright, BooBoo23, I saw this part.
 
2008-04-03 10:24:39 AM
The Stealth Hippopotamus:
But Bush really sucks.


Ah, and here we have a sighting of that near-extinct creature, Bushus Apologisiticus. Note the clever, almost desperate defense mechanism - not to defend what Bush has done badly, but to point out similar things that previous administrations didn't do too well, either.

They used to roam these boards in great numbers, but have dwindled in population and are seldom heard from any more.
 
2008-04-03 10:25:04 AM
The Stealth Hippopotamus: Now trying to hide docs from the national archive in your underwear, that's a new one. Most Presidents were smart enough to bribe one of the workers.

B..b...b..but Sandy Berger!!!


Good one. I give you 9/11.
 
2008-04-03 10:25:57 AM
As much as they would like it, the DOJ simply does not have the power to claim laws do not apply. They are totally vulnerable to charges if someone would actually grow a damn pair and make them.

/Fark Yoo
 
2008-04-03 10:27:44 AM
The Stealth Hippopotamus: Yeah like the time the jailed reporters because he didn't like what they wrote about him.

Yeah, kind of
 
2008-04-03 10:29:08 AM
Righties are pissed because none of their rhetorical bullshiat works any more.

They're like quacking ducks

Quack quack quack, terra terra terra.
 
2008-04-03 10:30:24 AM
Jubeebee: burndtdan: so if they have or can get proof of this policy, and the obvious conflict it has with the oath the president took to uphold the constitution, can they put him in jail?


Not likely. At this point it's better just to wait out the rest of this disaster, and then sic future AG Edwards on a bunch of fall guys.


can we at least hold out hope ron paul will challenge him to pistols at dawn for treason?
 
2008-04-03 10:33:32 AM
Nestea Plunge: Classic, an "everybody does it" morally relativistic defence and a deflection.

You some kind of idiot? You got bats in your belfrey?


Zulu_as_Kono: Ah, and here we have a sighting of that near-extinct creature, Bushus Apologisiticus. Note the clever, almost desperate defense mechanism - not to defend what Bush has done badly, but to point out similar things that previous administrations didn't do too well, either.

They used to roam these boards in great numbers, but have dwindled in population and are seldom heard from any more.


Well when we have people claiming that Bush is the worst POTUS "EVAR!!11!!" they need a little history lesson. I'm not saying that Bush is the best ever (far from it) but people who actually think that he is something new and different are either willfully dumb or drinkers of the kool-aid.
And anyone who compares Bush to Hitler (or anyone in American to Hitler) demeans the sacrifice of an entire generation. You dont need an entire world war to stop Bush, you just need to wait for a couple of more months.
 
2008-04-03 10:39:08 AM
So much for being a strict constructionist I guess. Just a reminder of what we are talking about:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Seems pretty clear to me.
 
2008-04-03 10:40:43 AM
Skleenar: Yeah, kind of

Are you saying that Bush is killing reporters?! I don't remember Bush drafting reporters and forcing them into the military. They went of their own free will into a war zone unarmed. You cant blame Bush for their deaths.

And since when does taking out a building used to spread propaganda equal outlawing your own "free press" from publishing a number?
 
2008-04-03 10:40:44 AM
The Stealth Hippopotamus: Well when we have people claiming that Bush is the worst POTUS "EVAR!!11!!" they need a little history lesson. I'm not saying that Bush is the best ever (far from it) but people who actually think that he is something new and different are either willfully dumb or drinkers of the kool-aid.

Well, FDR and Lincoln, for all their faults, actually accomplished an end to justify their means. Bush trashed the constitution too, but for what?
 
2008-04-03 10:41:39 AM
The Stealth Hippopotamus:
Well when we have people claiming that Bush is the worst POTUS "EVAR!!11!!" they need a little history lesson.

The thing is, I know my history pretty well, and a convincing argument could be made that he is, in fact, our worst president ever. Simply saying "well, these other guys weren't so great sometimes" doesn't change just how bad Bush has been.

And anyone who claims Bush hasn't been a disaster is the willfully dumb or kool-aid drinker.
 
2008-04-03 10:42:02 AM
The Stealth Hippopotamus: N
Well when we have people claiming that Bush is the worst POTUS "EVAR!!11!!" they need a little history lesson. I'm not saying that Bush is the best ever (far from it) but people who actually think that he is something new and different are either willfully dumb or drinkers of the kool-aid.


I'll agree with you on this. People who claim Bush's is the biggest farkup administration ever display a stunning ignorance of history. Bush's administration is, at worst, the third or fourth biggest farkup administration in American history.
 
2008-04-03 10:43:46 AM
The Stealth Hippopotamus:
And anyone who compares Bush to Hitler (or anyone in American to Hitler) demeans the sacrifice of an entire generation. You dont need an entire world war to stop Bush, you just need to wait for a couple of more months.

Oh yeah, and this, too: "the price of freedom is eternal vigilance". Sound familiar?
 
2008-04-03 10:44:49 AM
The general welfare is more important than individual rights. I don't see why that would differ in this instance.
 
2008-04-03 10:48:05 AM
I think it's a little ironic that there are some people who would happily snip out certain "unnecessary" passages of the Constitution, yet would be horrified to see a news story like this one:

WASHINGTON, April 18 -- President George W. Bush unveiled the "Keeping Families Safe from Terror" initiative at a Rose Garden news conference today requiring all privately-owned firearms to be turned into the federal government by July 4.

"We cannot allow Al-Qaeda terror cells that could be operating covertly here in our Homeland to have access to high-powered rifles, shotguns or easily-concealable handguns," President Bush said. "By removing these weapons from circulation, we guarantee safety for every child learning at a schoolhouse, for every working mother taking the subway to her job, for every family who wants to feel safe spending their economic stimulus payment at a local mall.

"Anyone who opposes this measure must be in favor of armed terrorists being able to go to your local grocery store and execute the customers and the clerks."
 
2008-04-03 10:48:20 AM
Jubeebee: I'll agree with you on this. People who claim Bush's is the biggest farkup administration ever display a stunning ignorance of history. Bush's administration is, at worst, the third or fourth biggest farkup administration in American history.

Which one's are 1 through 3 or 2? Buchanan sucked admittedly (and I am not talking about his alleged homosexuality) but his was crimes of omission. He basically did nothing. Bush on the other hand has permitted the active subversion of the rule of law and is incompetent to boot. I agree that the comparisons of Bush to Hitler are inapt, but that is due in part to the fact that Hitler actually got some good things done. The Autobahn didn't build itself you know. Bush on the other hand has accomplished nothing positive.
 
2008-04-03 10:49:34 AM
The Stealth Hippopotamus: And anyone who compares Bush to Hitler (or anyone in American to Hitler) demeans the sacrifice of an entire generation.

BS. It doesn't have to get to the point of gassing unpopular minorities to be able to recognize eerie similarities between 1930s Germany and modern America. We have the responsibility to remember where things could lead when the citizenry is scared and the government is given too much unchecked power. The comparisons are appropriate (although the "Bush is worse than Hitler" crowd can DIAF)
 
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